The next part of Forza Motorsport will be developed openly with the community

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That honestly sounds like most games. Not sure why we're pretending it's not here. Go look at what the community really asks for, and see what actually comes in patches(or even it's full release), for most games.
In my experience most other AAA developers do a hell of a lot more in a hell of a lot less time than Turn 10 take to do anything.
 
13,582
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lImaRobotl
In my experience most other AAA developers do a hell of a lot more in a hell of a lot less time than Turn 10 take to do anything.
Which has little to do with the point about the community asking for things, and not getting them. Hell, I'm playing Anthem right now and people are crying for more loot, but the game actually made it drop less in most instances.
 
1,287
United States
The Planet Dirt (Earth)
That they're there, cost no real world money, hold nothing exclusive besides racer gear, and literally not anything remotely close to the actual lootboxes that have been plastered all over the internet in bad stigma. What exactly are you asking, that wasn't painfully obvious if you've played the game and see how that topic gets brought up here?

So because they didn't cost real world money then they are not loot boxes, even though all the other elements were there?

Catchy opening animation - Check
Randomized items based on chance - Check
Countless duplicate items including cars, suits and, mod cards - Check
In game purchase needed to access - Check

Nothing at all like a loot box?
 
13,582
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lImaRobotl
So because they didn't cost real world money then they are not loot boxes, even though all the other elements were there?

Catchy opening animation - Check
Randomized items based on chance - Check
Countless duplicate items including cars, suits and, mod cards - Check
In game purchase needed to access - Check

Nothing at all like a loot box?
Yes, quite literally not the same as the ones being compared to that are actually a problem in other games. If you think so, you're very much part of the problem, and that was detailed in my first response to you what makes them different than said loot boxes in comparison.

That they're called loot boxes, and have fancy animations is ridiculous thing to pretend that it's even remotely the same as lootboxes that hold exclusive items that cost REAL WORLD money.

It's funny, because you couldn't have proved my point any better - About how misinformed people are about the situation that they're complaining about.

EDIT: You wan't to know the real kicker? The Wheel spins in Forza Horizon are literally no different. Actually, I'm wrong, they actually hold exclusive items in it - So why haven't we heard one thing about that system if its almost mimicking the Forza Motorsport lootboxes? I'm betting that because it's not associating itself to a word that shares with other games, that has been controversial for said games. They see a word and attack it, even when there's absolutely nothing similar about it.
 
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1,287
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The Planet Dirt (Earth)
Sorry but, even though I may not have popularity on my side, that does not change the fact that Forza 7 had lootboxes.

Loot boxes typically cost real world money, but that does not mean they always cost real world money. On top of that. If what was in Forza wasn't loot boxes then critics wouldn't have pointed them out, and Turn 10 would not have removed them.
 
13,582
United States
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lImaRobotl
Sorry but, even though I may not have popularity on my side, that does not change the fact that Forza 7 had lootboxes.

Loot boxes typically cost real world money, but that does not mean they always cost real world money. On top of that. If what was in Forza wasn't loot boxes then critics wouldn't have pointed them out, and Turn 10 would not have removed them.
It doesn't change the fact that loot boxes are there, you're right, but I'm not debating that. I'm debating the wildly misinformed people, that are literally having absolutely no clue what they're talking about when they're comparing it to loot boxes that actually are toxic, the ones that hold exclusive items, and actually cost money. There is nothing wrong with a loot box that doesn't follow that method. You're very much part of that group if you're thinking theres an issue with them.

They changed them because of all the bad publicity that loot boxes from other games had, and because of that, in turn, created a plethora of people that literally don't even know what they were arguing or comparing. To get their's away from that stigma, they changed it.

It's still funny that Horizons wheel spins are literally worse off than Forza Motorsports loot boxes, since it actually holds exclusive vehicles. Yet no one is batting an eye at that? You want to know why? Because, like I keep mentioning, its just the name of the actual feature that's being attacked, not what it actually is, and like I keep mentioning - if you're going to liken them to those that are actually toxic to the gaming community than you're just as misinformed as the rest.
 

SlipZtrEm

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SlipZtrEm
There no way of knowing but a new gran turismo game is in works when its releases i don't know. but there have been most of the time 4 years between the every gran turismo game. Exept for gt4-gt5.

Uh, I mean, that's not true at all. There was ~18 months between the PS1 games, another ~18 months between GT2 and GT3, and roughly 42 months between GT3 and GT4. The only gaps involving four years (roughly) would be GT4–GT5 and GT6–GTS. :)

Sorry but, even though I may not have popularity on my side, that does not change the fact that Forza 7 had lootboxes.

Loot boxes typically cost real world money, but that does not mean they always cost real world money. On top of that. If what was in Forza wasn't loot boxes then critics wouldn't have pointed them out, and Turn 10 would not have removed them.

I believe the point being made here is that grouping FM7's version of lootboxes in with something like, say, the early-day version of lootboxes in Star Wars Battlefront II is (possibly intentionally) misleading.

FM7's boxes never cost real money. FM7's boxes never featured content you couldn't unlock traditionally elsewhere*. The only thing lootboxes really offered were self-applied nerfs to gain extra credits.

* - IIRC, badges and outfits were indeed pretty much box-only, if you care about that sort of thing.

If anything, this whole discussion shows that there are shades of gray here. There are the Wheelspins in FH4, which functionally aren't much different to boxes. Going in a different direction, there's GT Sport's Daily Marathon. You're not using credits to buy it, but it's still an in-game mechanic urging you into putting time in for the chance at a prize.
 
1,287
United States
The Planet Dirt (Earth)
It doesn't change the fact that loot boxes are there, you're right, but I'm not debating that. I'm debating the wildly misinformed people, that are literally having absolutely no clue what they're talking about when they're comparing it to loot boxes that actually are toxic, the ones that hold exclusive items, and actually cost money. There is nothing wrong with a loot box that doesn't follow that method. You're very much part of that group if you're thinking theres an issue with them.

They changed them because of all the bad publicity that loot boxes from other games had, and because of that, in turn, created a plethora of people that literally don't even know what they were arguing or comparing. To get their's away from that stigma, they changed it.

It's still funny that Horizons wheel spins are literally worse off than Forza Motorsports loot boxes, since it actually holds exclusive vehicles. Yet no one is batting an eye at that? You want to know why? Because, like I keep mentioning, its just the name of the actual feature that's being attacked, not what it actually is, and like I keep mentioning - if you're going to liken them to those that are actually toxic to the gaming community than you're just as misinformed as the rest.

I'll go back to my "pre-crime" argument on FM7s prize crates. Had the players not balked at EA and Blizzards handling of loot crates, Turn 10 would have monetized them. Just like the car tokens in FM4. To me, paid loot boxes are tools that the scummiest companies in gaming will use. Forza didn't charge money for them, which is good, but it was pretty much telegraphed that they would have. They never gave a hard no, to whether or not the crates would be monitized.

Was I ever disgusted about the prize crates in FM7? No. I actually enjoyed them. And I thought the removal was silly. But Turn 10 never defended them, and like someone caught with their hand in the cookie jar, they issued an apology and pulled them.

From Gamespot.
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/forza-motorsport-7-update-to-remove-loot-boxes/1100-6460775/


In the announcement, studio head Alan Hartman says, "The overwhelming feedback has been that this system feels out of place in the game." As a result, both Prize Crates will be removed and paid tokens won't be coming to replace them. Paid tokens also won't be a part of the upcoming Forza Horizon 4.

I don't play Horizon, so I don't know about the wheel spins in that game. But if they occur when you level up, and the only way you can get them is by leveling up; then it flies. A loot box must be navigated to, and purchased by in game or real world currency.
 
13,582
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lImaRobotl
I'll go back to my "pre-crime" argument on FM7s prize crates. Had the players not balked at EA and Blizzards handling of loot crates, Turn 10 would have monetized them. Just like the car tokens in FM4. To me, paid loot boxes are tools that the scummiest companies in gaming will use. Forza didn't charge money for them, which is good, but it was pretty much telegraphed that they would have. They never gave a hard no, to whether or not the crates would be monitized.

Was I ever disgusted about the prize crates in FM7? No. I actually enjoyed them. And I thought the removal was silly. But Turn 10 never defended them, and like someone caught with their hand in the cookie jar, they issued an apology and pulled them.

From Gamespot.
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/forza-motorsport-7-update-to-remove-loot-boxes/1100-6460775/




I don't play Horizon, so I don't know about the wheel spins in that game. But if they occur when you level up, and the only way you can get them is by leveling up; then it flies. A loot box must be navigated to, and purchased by in game or real world currency.
So you’re going to talk about a situation that didn’t happen for Forza 7? A completely non-existent situation that no one can prove for or against? That they didn’t at all should have stopped you completely from even writing this.
 
181
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bkfountain
fozzie bear
I'm sorry but your post comes across as a forced attempt to sound mature and promote Gran Turismo at the expense of the "children's game" everyone loves to bash these days.

Lol.

I never said Forza is a kids game. I never bashed it. I played Forza heavily for 10 years and even got to tier 12 in Forza Rewards.

Forza does lots well and is gorgeous. It's a cornerstone Xbox franchise. I just changed and liked the additional depth that I get with Gran Turismo Sport regulations or a F1 career mode. T10 has just never seemed interested in adding these things.
 
1,287
United States
The Planet Dirt (Earth)
So you’re going to talk about a situation that didn’t happen for Forza 7? A completely non-existent situation that no one can prove for or against? That they didn’t at all should have stopped you completely from even writing this.

They didn't put loot crates in FM7?

They didn't have car tokens in FM3 - FM6? Correction FM4 - FM6. 3 Didn't have them.
 
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13,582
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lImaRobotl
They didn't put loot crates in FM7?

They didn't have car tokens in FM3 - FM6? Correction FM4 - FM6. 3 Didn't have them.
It’s like you’re purposely trying to be dense. No, I’m talking about the fact that you brought monetization in as a point, when it’s literally never happened. Shoulda woulda coulda had no place in a conversation. I’ve never denied that loot crates were in the game. I simply pointed out that any one that connects them with the toxic loot crates that are seen in other games is simply flat out wrong in even assuming they are even similar in the first place, and are completely wrong. Why you mentioned tokens is beyond me, because we’re talking about loot crates. You’re purposely deflecting at this point and you’re just moving the goal posts.

Also, since you also avoided the question that was asked multiple times. What exactly was bad about the ones in FM7 in the first place?

And I’m just wondering what in the world the other games matter, when we’re talking about Forza Motorsport 7?
 
1,287
United States
The Planet Dirt (Earth)
It’s like you’re purposely trying to be dense. No, I’m talking about the fact that you brought monetization in as a point, when it’s literally never happened. Shoulda woulda coulda had no place in a conversation. I’ve never denied that loot crates were in the game. I simply pointed out that any one that connects them with the toxic loot crates that are seen in other games is simply flat out wrong in even assuming they are even similar in the first place, and are completely wrong. Why you mentioned tokens is beyond me, because we’re talking about loot crates. You’re purposely deflecting at this point and you’re just moving the goal posts.

They've monetized past Forza titles up until FM7. You mean to tell me that they weren't going to do the same with FM7?

Also, since you also avoided the question that was asked multiple times. What exactly was bad about the ones in FM7 in the first place?
Timing. If the stink that EA caused didn't happen, Forza's prize crates would have went off without a hitch. Because EA crapped up, Forza's similar boxes drew the same ire, even thought they did not monetize them.

And I’m just wondering what in the world the other games matter, when we’re talking about Forza Motorsport 7?

Their past activities have absolutely no bearing on anything?
 

Northstar

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I like how even with Forza 7's many many actual faults, people still cling to something that isn't actually in the game. :lol:

Whether they were ever planning to monetize it or not is irrelevant at this point since in the end they didn't go that route. In fact they even retroactively removed microtransactions from prior releases. So really the fact people still go on about it tells me they haven't actually played the game, because if they have played it, non-existent microtransactions would be pretty far down on the list of problems.
 
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Silver-Arrows21
It truly is amazing how even with the bevy of actual problems that people can lay at the feet of T10 and how FM7 has shaken out, most people continue to straight up lie and say that it had loot boxes. It didn't in the beginning, and it certainly doesn't now.
 
491
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Sweden
Uh, I mean, that's not true at all. There was ~18 months between the PS1 games, another ~18 months between GT2 and GT3, and roughly 42 months between GT3 and GT4. The only gaps involving four years (roughly) would be GT4–GT5 and GT6–GTS. :)



I believe the point being made here is that grouping FM7's version of lootboxes in with something like, say, the early-day version of lootboxes in Star Wars Battlefront II is (possibly intentionally) misleading.

FM7's boxes never cost real money. FM7's boxes never featured content you couldn't unlock traditionally elsewhere*. The only thing lootboxes really offered were self-applied nerfs to gain extra credits.

* - IIRC, badges and outfits were indeed pretty much box-only, if you care about that sort of thing.

If anything, this whole discussion shows that there are shades of gray here. There are the Wheelspins in FH4, which functionally aren't much different to boxes. Going in a different direction, there's GT Sport's Daily Marathon. You're not using credits to buy it, but it's still an in-game mechanic urging you into putting time in for the chance at a prize.


Yes the first games come out very close to each other. Now it takes a lot longer to make games. every car model takes 6 months from scratch to make for one person. But to make the premiums into superpremiums should take far less than that. And all the cars the make will offer up to 8k kaz him self said that the cars is overspeced for ps4 pro.
I Belive 3-4 years at least between every title from now. There most likely won't be any new gran turismo for ps4. As gt sport come pretty late for the ps4. I think in 2020 they might give us some info on the next gran turismo game.
It could be a launch title for ps5 or close to it.
Next gran turismo i Belive feature anything from 500-600 cars. And might as well bring back the great features from the past like gt auto and tuning shop
 
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MHFanatik
So what exactly was the problem with the loot boxes? Because all that has nothing to do with the question I’ve asked multiple times.
I don't have any problem with Forza's lootboxes, locking some cars behind them was dumb, but other than that I don't care. I just wanted to rant a little bit.
 
307
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
I have no regrets choosing FM7 over GTS, if only for freeplay, where you've pretty much got the history of motorsports to play about with.
And while the ai is far from perfect, at least it can be competitive. (GT6 put me off the series for good with it's ai.)
My problem with it is the way they've added a more forza horizon style to it, but you just have to look at how many players use the novelty
race suits or love wacky cars with loads of horsepower that handle like **** to see maybe you're just in the minority.
Another complaint for me is the fantasy tracks, they must spend so much time on those just to promote the game but we could probably have 3 or 4
real life tracks instead. But truth be told I'll probably still stick with the series just for the amount of content available to tweak the game to your likening. Hell, I've even ended up playing FH4 just for the rally cars.
 

VXR

10,221
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motorforum
AI filled race seasons, with team budgets so you have to play for a few seasons to reach the top. Sounds a lot better to me than the volumes of events we've had from this series for every iteration. The most fun racing experiences I've had were on games like Toca where you raced a full season and improved year on year.

Being able to select the liveries of AI cars from either your own designs or ones you download.
 
13,582
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lImaRobotl
They've monetized past Forza titles up until FM7. You mean to tell me that they weren't going to do the same with FM7?
And that has to do with Forza 7 in what way? It literally wasn't there, so what happened in the past means nothing for what happened in the game we're actually discussing. Stop moving the goal posts.

Timing. If the stink that EA caused didn't happen, Forza's prize crates would have went off without a hitch. Because EA crapped up, Forza's similar boxes drew the same ire, even thought they did not monetize them.
So there was nothing wrong with them then? There was only something wrong with some other games loot crates. Glad you cleared that right up.

Their past activities have absolutely no bearing on anything?
That's absolutely correct. What happened before means absolute jack, if it literally isn't happening, in the game we're actually discussing. I'm not about to get mad and start berating GTS, because GT5 had one-use paint chips that cost real world money, would I? That's just outright asinine.

I don't have any problem with Forza's lootboxes, locking some cars behind them was dumb, but other than that I don't care. I just wanted to rant a little bit.
That's the thing you keep ignoring, and the point I keep making that you guys actually keep proving. The only thing locked to it was driver gear, and mod cards. You guys keep doing wonders in showing just how misinformed people actually are regarding this. Now, if you were actually talking about the Specialty dealer, you might have a point - but you're not.

It truly is amazing how even with the bevy of actual problems that people can lay at the feet of T10 and how FM7 has shaken out, most people continue to straight up lie and say that it had loot boxes. It didn't in the beginning, and it certainly doesn't now.
Yes, there very much was loot boxes in Forza 7. It's just not even remotely similar to any that are being talked about being bad for other games.

No, some arejust massively misinformed about what they entail.


kaz him self said that the cars is overspeced for ps4 pro.
That's basically the same line he's been using for close to a decade now.

Next gran turismo i Belive feature anything from 500-600 cars. And might as well bring back the great features from the past like gt auto and tuning shop
But that doesn't line up with your 1 car every 6 months time frame.
 
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181
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United States
bkfountain
fozzie bear
I have no regrets choosing FM7 over GTS, if only for freeplay, where you've pretty much got the history of motorsports to play about with.
And while the ai is far from perfect, at least it can be competitive. (GT6 put me off the series for good with it's ai.)
My problem with it is the way they've added a more forza horizon style to it, but you just have to look at how many players use the novelty
race suits or love wacky cars with loads of horsepower that handle like **** to see maybe you're just in the minority.
Another complaint for me is the fantasy tracks, they must spend so much time on those just to promote the game but we could probably have 3 or 4
real life tracks instead. But truth be told I'll probably still stick with the series just for the amount of content available to tweak the game to your likening. Hell, I've even ended up playing FH4 just for the rally cars.

The variety of vehicles is excellent and the AI is fine even if it cheats on unbeatable by going faster than the car should.

I just want the online lobbies to not be a ramming hell hole.
 
616
Turn 10 has corrected any "perception" with the removal. As of today, I don't see complaints (or maybe there are?) with GTS offering folks to purchase cars with real world money? Why is that ok?

The "grind" is real in that game and rather than tweaking it, Kaz threw in that option. If Forza had this option, guarantee it would not be well received (believe this was an issue in Forza 5), however thanks to Forza Hub and general payouts, buying cars hasn't been an issue.
 
13,582
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Los Angeles, CA
lImaRobotl
Turn 10 has corrected any "perception" with the removal. As of today, I don't see complaints (or maybe there are?) with GTS offering folks to purchase cars with real world money? Why is that ok?

The "grind" is real in that game and rather than offering more avenues or tweaking it, Kaz threw in that option. If Forza has this option, guarantee it would not be well received (believe this was an issue in Forza 5), however thanks to Forza Hub and general payouts, buying cars hasn't been an issue.
As history has shown on this forum, any time that Forza offers microtransactions, the whole board goes up in flames - Hell, even when they don't do it, you still have people complaining about it.

However, more often than not those same people that were always vocal about it for Forza, turn a blind eye when it seems to be for GT. Damning Forza to hell for thinking of possibly putting them in in the future, but deciding not to yet ignoring it when Kaz says that there wont be any in GT, yet puts them in anways.

Just realize that those people are the ones you should ignoring, because they offer nothing of worth here.
 
616
As history has shown on this forum, any time that Forza offers microtransactions, the whole board goes up in flames - Hell, even when they don't do it, you still have people complaining about it.

However, more often than not those same people that were always vocal about it for Forza, turn a blind eye when it seems to be for GT. Damning Forza to hell for thinking of possibly putting them in in the future, but deciding not to yet ignoring it when Kaz says that there wont be any in GT, yet puts them in anways.

Just realize that those people are the ones you should ignoring, because they offer nothing of worth here.

Yep, nothing new.

That's the whole PS zealotry vs "Xbots" in general. I've seen that for years now on forums. Every bit of news is negative no matter what MS tries, even their super pro consumer attitude. PS fans: "We don't play old games" (when XboxOne introduced backwards compatibility), now that PS5 (reportedly) is going to have BC, it's the greatest thing in the world. Sony skips E3, it's some master chess move, articles from "games media" on why E3 doesn't matter anymore, yet if it was MS, the articles and youtubers would be stating "MS has given up!", "XbOx iz dUn!!!". :rolleyes:
 
13,582
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lImaRobotl
Yep, nothing new.

That's the whole PS zealotry vs "Xbots" in general. I've seen that for years now on forums. Every bit of news is negative no matter what MS tries, even their super pro consumer attitude. PS fans: "We don't play old games" (when XboxOne introduced backwards compatibility), now that PS5 (reportedly) is going to have BC, it's the greatest thing in the world. Sony skips E3, it's some master chess move, articles from "games media" on why E3 doesn't matter anymore, yet if it was MS, the articles and youtubers would be stating "MS has given up!", "XbOx iz dUn!!!". :rolleyes:
The good news is that it's usually not too many people. It tends to be the same loud people that keep cropping up from time to time. More often than not, you'll find someone correcting them. That's the good thing about it, in my opinion.

I also notice that this kind of mentality has slowly been wilting away as years go by. It used to be much worse around GT5's release, at least that's what I noticed when I first joined this forum.
 

McLaren

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I'll go back to my "pre-crime" argument on FM7s prize crates. Had the players not balked at EA and Blizzards handling of loot crates, Turn 10 would have monetized them.

Timing. If the stink that EA caused didn't happen, Forza's prize crates would have went off without a hitch. Because EA crapped up, Forza's similar boxes drew the same ire, even thought they did not monetize them.
The only loot crate controversy concerning EA that happened around Forza 7's release was Star Wars Battlefront 2. Except FM7 came out Oct. 3rd, 2017. Battlefront 2 came out Nov. 17th, 2017 & the loot crate controversy kicked up just before it's release; Gamespot submitted an article detailing the problems of Battlefront 2's loot crates Nov. 16th, 2017. The Reddit backlash also happened in November before release.

As mentioned in this thread, T10 removed microtransactions from previous games due to the criticism. There was nothing to imply they would go back on that decision to reintroduce them back with FM7, and as was seen, they never did; FM7's boxes never required real money or use to progress.

Yet somehow, instead of that decision to remove microtransactions from a previous game being possibly the reason FM7 was not hit with real money loot boxes, it was T10 foreshadowing EA's turmoil a full month away. :odd:
 
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