The next tuner challenge..

[Snyp]

Is it really light? Give us a hint.

It might not be THAT light, but pretty tiny thought...

It's made in France, it's small, it has descent power and it's an MR

SHT (Speed & Handling Team) will make it fast

 

[VTiRoj]

It might not be THAT light, but pretty tiny thought...

It's made in France, it's small, it has descent power and it's an MR

SHT (Speed & Handling Team) will make it fast

Its either a Renault 5, Clio V6, or one of those Hommel things.

 

[Kent]

My cars usually are safe to drive.. in other words, they rely heavily on grip. But should you want some action, tail out malachy isn't far. you just need to grip the car from the neck and start shaking.. using different weight shifting techniques is recommendedd. it isn't my fault if some ham-fisted gangsta from Harlem ( no offense meant to any gangstas from Harlem) doesn't know any more finesse and skill requiring professional driving techniques. Maybe MFT or I alone should start making driving technique videos for dummies.

I've noticed you talking a lot about technique and whatnot. I'm expecting big things from your cars now. I'll also be expecting you to put down solid T time claims before testing (just so we all know if we can keep up with your skill).
Hopefully that will work well and since your FWD isn't doing 37s anymore I'm confident I will be able to drive the car at claimed speeds but the only way to find out is to see your claims and test them for myself.

In any case, I'm intrigued by your constant talk of technique in the hands of the judges.

 

[Leonidae]

Well, in my own hands they work well, since I've practised weight shifting etc a lot, and tuned my cars to respond to those techniques. Of course, this leads to the unfortunate side effect that the judges might try and drive them like they would drive ordinary track cars, flooring it into corner and not trying any tricks to make the car turn.. maybe i should put a warning on the S-Tune.. "Requires advanced weight shifting techniques". I'm currently collecting replays of doing weight shifting and sideways stuff in my S-Tune, just to prove that it DOES oversteer when you know what to do.

And I haven't forgotten my FWD entry either. Bimmer can stay as it is, it was tuned on Nurb on N3's so it's agile enough, despite the fact that setup for Citta is different from the one I posted on MFT. But, if I come across any way to improve turn in of S-Tune or laptime/T1 time of Focus, I'll post it. my best one for the Focus at the moment is high 39 T1 and 1'44.5xx lap.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

So if I lean forward in my seat, then lean into corners like a bike rider your car will drift for me? Driving FFs seems to be a good way to learn weight shifting techniques.

 

[Leonidae]

So if I lean forward in my seat, then lean into corners like a bike rider your car will drift for me? Driving FFs seems to be a good way to learn weight shifting techniques.

Agreed. Those cars need it severely. well, most of them at least.

 

[Kent]

So what you're saying is... You can get it to oversteer using certain techniques.
That's nice and everything but wouldn't you say any car is subject to the same circumstances... I mean, even the TVR Speed 12 can oversteer if driven with the proper technique.

The key to all of this is to consider...
Does the car have total balance?
If you were to use the Judges' criteria posted in post #3 of the TCv3 thread, would the car stand out as a good car?

Ask yourself those questions and drive your car with the criteria from post 3 in mind... From there continue your tuning.
However, just try to keep in mind that a car isn't necessarily a good car simply because it can oversteer or 4-wheel drift.

Like I said, check the criteria and give yourself more time to test and tune. 👍

Btw, In my opinion, a good car shouldn't require advanced techniques just to get around the track properly. Rather, it is the opposite... A truly good car should get around the track in the hands of a novice nearly as easily as in the hands of an expert.
(this is probably a good time to point out the touge monster R-tune R34, very easy to control, oversteer and understeer are present depending on driver, and handling feel is good despite the near 1600kg weight)

 

[Leonidae]

1.) An initial comparison of feel and sector time to the current "Touge Monster."

I will start running R-tune alongside my S-Tune. I've tested these cars against each other before, and I have pretty good picture how they behave. Actually, may i request one thing to be added to judges criterias? they should run the Touge monster before the participants car, then drive the entry car, and if it's faster, try to catch it if possible. of course, there's the quality of the setup.. faster doesn't mean pleasant to drive.. I'll keep working on it.

2.) Feel of handling, consistancy ( shouldn't it be consistency? ) and ease of proper operation.

As said above.. And currently S-tune is running consistent mid 35 T1 times and very low 1'32 laps, best being 1'31.362..

3.) Overall tendency to be predictable and capable through the Test Course's various conditions.

Hmmm.. all right, this solves one thing. I need to make my cars intro more accurate. That should help the judges to know what to expect from S-tune. It's a difficult animal, that car.. it's FR when there's no slip, and remains RWD-biased even when it slips, but then the fronts get the power and it darts out of the corner like the famous bat out of hell.. It's Godzilla on steroids after all.

 

[Kent]

I will start running R-tune alongside my S-Tune. I've tested these cars against each other before, and I have pretty good picture how they behave. Actually, may i request one thing to be added to judges criterias? they should run the Touge monster before the participants car, then drive the entry car, and if it's faster, try to catch it if possible. of course, there's the quality of the setup.. faster doesn't mean pleasant to drive.. I'll keep working on it.



As said above.. And currently S-tune is running consistent mid 35 T1 times and very low 1'32 laps, best being 1'31.362..




Hmmm.. all right, this solves one thing. I need to make my cars intro more accurate. That should help the judges to know what to expect from S-tune. It's a difficult animal, that car.. it's FR when there's no slip, and remains RWD-biased even when it slips, but then the fronts get the power and it darts out of the corner like the famous bat out of hell.. It's Godzilla on steroids after all.

Just as well, do as you wish.
However, is it really necessary to get on my case about one mis-spelled word. I overlook that sort of thing from everyone (including you) and I wouldn't have a hard time picking on most people (including you) about minor errors in grammar (such as repeatedly using an uncapitalized "I" or spelling practiced as "practised").

Whatever the case, I'm off to school now. 👍
Back when done, until then,

 

[Leonidae]

I meant no harm with that grammar thing. And I shall return to Citta Di Aria. Have a good day at school.

 

[CraftyLandShark]

If the S-tune is running mid-35's I'm going to have to give it a drive... I thought my little Peugeot was going to turn out to be the fastest hands-down, but the best I've coaxed out of it are a couple of high 35's.

On another note, I drove the 3000GT last night to get a picture of it for ND4HS... that's a surprisingly balanced car! If the rest of the cars in AWD are of the same caliber, this should prove to be VERY interesting.

 

[Leonidae]

If the S-tune is running mid-35's I'm going to have to give it a drive... I thought my little Peugeot was going to turn out to be the fastest hands-down, but the best I've coaxed out of it are a couple of high 35's.

On another note, I drove the 3000GT last night to get a picture of it for ND4HS... that's a surprisingly balanced car! If the rest of the cars in AWD are of the same caliber, this should prove to be VERY interesting.

it's doing high 34's now., and low 1'30 laptimes..

 

[mafia_boy]

I noticed that whole last page (all from the past 24hrs) that Leo was going on about what the judges should and shouldn't do.........examples like:

Well, in my own hands they work well, since I've practised weight shifting etc a lot, and tuned my cars to respond to those techniques. Of course, this leads to the unfortunate side effect that the judges might try and drive them like they would drive ordinary track cars, flooring it into corner and not trying any tricks to make the car turn.. maybe i should put a warning on the S-Tune.. "Requires advanced weight shifting techniques". I'm currently collecting replays of doing weight shifting and sideways stuff in my S-Tune, just to prove that it DOES oversteer when you know what to do.

AND

My cars usually are safe to drive.. in other words, they rely heavily on grip. But should you want some action, tail out malachy isn't far. you just need to grip the car from the neck and start shaking.. using different weight shifting techniques is recommendedd. it isn't my fault if some ham-fisted gangsta from Harlem ( no offense meant to any gangstas from Harlem) doesn't know any more finesse and skill requiring professional driving techniques. Maybe MFT or I alone should start making driving technique videos for dummies.

If they are indirect shots at me from my judging in VTC, that's fine, just say, "Mafs, you stuffed my tune with your driving style!!", and explain to me what I SHOULD be doing with driving styles. However, since I got within 1 sec of most of the other guys in that category, I don't think my driving style was the problem on this occasion.

 

[Leonidae]

it wasn't indirect shot at you. I've just received a lot complaints recently that my tunes understeer, which I find odd since they are either neutral or slightly oversteery when I drive.. but it can be a controller issue. Sorry if you felt that it was aimed at you.

 

[Kent]

it wasn't indirect shot at you. I've just received a lot complaints recently that my tunes understeer, which I find odd since they are either neutral or slightly oversteery when I drive.. but it can be a controller issue. Sorry if you felt that it was aimed at you.

I totally understand your frustration in that sense.
I've been a believer of technique overcoming tendancy for a long time now... That is to say, if a car seems to have a tendancy to understeer you may need to adjust your technique before you realize the car doesn't understeer as you thought.
However, with that said, there is definately point at which you have to ask yourself if the tuned car should be understeering yet or if it should have already.

Further, you need to have a little faith in the others on the GTP, as it stands now you almost come across as someone who honestly believes he is the only person involved in this event who knows how to drive properly (likewise for all of the past events as well).

All of this brings me to think about something I've left out of conversations for the most part...
Xport, Sharkport, Maxdrive, and any other replay transfer devices.
I've kept them out because I know there aren't too many who have them but I'm very interested to know who here has a replay transfer device.
So with that in mind, PLEASE, if you have a replay transfer device let me know (this thread is a fine place to do it but on your judge applications is also a great place ).

Btw, I've decided I'm not entering anything this time around.
I want to keep my integrity out of question (which could have become a problem if I was to judge and enter).
That said, I'll let you guys know this much...
My Civic, on a slightly different tune (and I mean "slightly") producing less than 250hp and still at stock weight is running low 1'43s around the course and mid 39s at T1.

 

[mafia_boy]

it wasn't indirect shot at you. I've just received a lot complaints recently that my tunes understeer, which I find odd since they are either neutral or slightly oversteery when I drive.. but it can be a controller issue. Sorry if you felt that it was aimed at you.

That was the 1st car I've driven of yours that DID understeer. That 300SL you produced for VTC was nothing but dori-dori san!! Most of the others that you personally produce DO have that oversteering tendancy, more in case to the huge amounts of power you like in your tunes compared to Grey.

But it has seemed in the past 24hrs that you were getting snappy at judges and since I put the results up around that time, you can understand me thinking that.

Kent, you always seem to say things in a very calm and P.C. way to what I would do it. Do you study psychology at school??

 

[Kent]

Kent, you always seem to say things in a very calm and P.C. way to what I would do it. Do you study psychology at school??

Nope.
Although I've studied plenty of psych, I never actually took it on as my major or primary subject of studies.
Rather, I just try to be mindful of my words.
It's important to remember that what we type out on the GTP does not have the advantage of facial expression or body language, when I speak on the GTP I try to be as direct and honest as possible.
I'm glad to see that approach is appreciated (thank you!).
You know, I have been working on it for a few years now.

btw, that's another part of it... When you become a mod you learn to question everything you're about to write. Basically, you learn to moderate yourself when possible.

 

[Leonidae]

oh well, my ambitious tuning will continue tomorrow. I gotta go to bed now, tomorrow i have some neglected BMW 3-series to pamper back to life. that poor thing had a battery that was frozen solid.. oil change too.. and we need to teach the owner not to leave the lights on.

 

[Kurei]

All of this brings me to think about something I've left out of conversations for the most part...
Xport, Sharkport, Maxdrive, and any other replay transfer devices.
I've kept them out because I know there aren't too many who have them but I'm very interested to know who here has a replay transfer device.
So with that in mind, PLEASE, if you have a replay transfer device let me know (this thread is a fine place to do it but on your judge applications is also a great place ).

Well I've already sent in my application, but since you'd like to know, I do have a AR Max (Action Replay Max) that I can use to transfer replay data, It has been awhile since I last used it, but if need be I can bust out the manual and remember how it all works

Also, these cars are getting more interesting each day, especially Leo's Lotus-handling Focus

 

[CraftyLandShark]

I'm curious as to whether anyone else has the same problem I do - I have an AR Max, but my copy of GT4 is a Greatest Hits copy.

I've been assuming that the data transfer won't work correctly with GT4 because it's an incompatible copy (none of the preloaded codes work with Greatest Hits), but out of curiosity I tried again today with a different memory card and save data from a different game (Driver 3) and I'm hitting the same problem - a fatal crash of sorts where the data transfer screen suddenly becomes nearly unreadable with screen roll and static, and becomes black-and-white. I've read of similar errors with the code screens, but never the data transfer screen.

Any ideas?

 

[VTiRoj]

Well I've already sent in my application, but since you'd like to know, I do have a AR Max (Action Replay Max) that I can use to transfer replay data, It has been awhile since I last used it, but if need be I can bust out the manual and remember how it all works

Also, these cars are getting more interesting each day, especially Leo's Lotus-handling Focus

If I can figure out how to use AR Max without a manual, so can you, Kurei.

Now that I've tuned a car for every drivetrain catagory... I'm kinda bored... any chance of more catagories so I can go back to tuning? Nah I'm kidding... I'll get back to looking for a white or silver Autech Stagea now.

 

[Kurei]

I'm curious as to whether anyone else has the same problem I do - I have an AR Max, but my copy of GT4 is a Greatest Hits copy.

I've been assuming that the data transfer won't work correctly with GT4 because it's an incompatible copy (none of the preloaded codes work with Greatest Hits), but out of curiosity I tried again today with a different memory card and save data from a different game (Driver 3) and I'm hitting the same problem - a fatal crash of sorts where the data transfer screen suddenly becomes nearly unreadable with screen roll and static, and becomes black-and-white. I've read of similar errors with the code screens, but never the data transfer screen.

Any ideas?

Sounds like catostrophic failure to me

In all serious-ness, does your disc have any scratch's, smudge's, or anything like that ?, what about your PS2's laser ?, or its operation in general, like a weird buzz or a noticable change in speed when the screen goes crazy ?

I've honestly never heard of such crazy problems during transfer, only small problems like freezing due to too much data load and such

 

[CraftyLandShark]

The AR Disc is practically brand-new and I tried cleaning it twice, likewise the GT4:GH disc - it's pretty much flawless.

The PS2's laser has given me problems in the past due to dust- and heat-buildup (I have the slim PS2), but after a thorough cleaning of the disc tray and laser and purchasing an intercooling fan, those problems haven't come back - it's been several months.

All in all, I'm stumped... I'll probably contact the manufacturer and see if there's anything they can suggest.

 

[Kurei]

^ Sounds like a good idea, you may be one of those guys who just happens to have some random error in your disc

On topic, I can't wait till the event actually gets started so I can test all the cars, I would like to judge all 3 categories, I'm a bit of an all-rounder

It's just like waiting for a Bikini contest to start

 

[mafia_boy]

My AWD versions were ready, but when I'm facing 600hp monsters and my two cars have less than 200hp each, it's going to make it a hell of a lot harder. I think I'll just go for the wacky and weird entry in this category and go all out on FF. FR I might do a drifter spec Touge beast, nothing to eat the times alive, but to have fun with on the course.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

And just to make this public I drove Leo's S-Tune and it was marvellous. Barely any understeer was notable except at the hairpin, similar to my 3000GT really, except much faster thanks to acceleration and RWD biased AWD. I shall put up a fight in my Mitsu, but believe Leo's claims about his Skyline people.

 

[Leonidae]

Some how that brought old song lyrics to my mind.. "Then I saw her face, now I'm a believer.." don't worry, I'm still working to eliminate that slight understeer in certain places.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

And not a trace.......of doubt in mind, I'm in love, oooohhhhh I'm a believer I couldn't leave her if I tried!
Yeah! GTP Idol.
I would be careful Leo, don't go messing up an already fine tune now.
BTW, my 3000GT still seems to feel a little better to me, it's just no where near as quick. I wish I had an AWD Calibra V6 to enter.............

 

[Leonidae]

No worries, I'm just making her bit more nimble and improve her acceleration. No power increases though, I don't want this 'zilla got become a nutjob on steroids with a chaingun..

Though, there isn't that big difference between the two at the moment.

 

[Skygrasper550]

CFH Team, Can't Fight Holdens Team?
I know, Carbon Fibre Hood Team.

.........grrrrr, that's it.., i've had enough of your insults, Holdenboy.., expect the "Team" to be around this week.., all for fun, not to worry..,

The key to all of this is to consider...
Does the car have total balance?
If you were to use the Judges' criteria posted in post #3 of the TCv3 thread, would the car stand out as a good car?

Ask yourself those questions and drive your car with the criteria from post 3 in mind... From there continue your tuning.
However, just try to keep in mind that a car isn't necessarily a good car simply because it can oversteer or 4-wheel drift.

Like I said, check the criteria and give yourself more time to test and tune. 👍

Btw, In my opinion, a good car shouldn't require advanced techniques just to get around the track properly. Rather, it is the opposite... A truly good car should get around the track in the hands of a novice nearly as easily as in the hands of an expert.

put simply, what Kent was trying to say is that anyone can drive your car & tune, even noobs.., right??