The Nordschleife time trials thread

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Every game with the Nordschleife needs a dedicated time trial thread. So without further ado...

Here's my efforts so far (they don't call me Captain Dead Slow for nothing :lol: ). I am running 2 laps in each car to get a better feel for what a "normalised" time would be (for me at least).

All cars are stock, controller and driving on automatic not manual.

I have run the new BMW M2 2023. First lap was clean but slow at 8m30.664. Second lap I had a bit of an off, but I think I lost as much time as I gained, so I'm banking this time of 8m20.862 as my "normalised" one. (It's my personal leaderboard - I can do what I like :P )



I have also started running the cars from lowest PI upwards.

The Toyota Corolla 1974 at 181PI was 11m38.761


The Honda S800 at 210PI was 11m20.270


Up next, the classic Mini...

PS Does anyone have a Google sheet with all the FM23 cars listed (all i need are car name and PI), to help me keep a record of my times?
 
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Every game with the Nordschleife needs a dedicated time trial thread. So without further ado...

PS Does anyone have a Google sheet with all the FM23 cars listed (all i need are car name and PI), to help me keep a record of my times?
I just made this using data from forza.fandom.com. I don't know how up to date it is but it's got everything you need.

FM Car list
 
Up next, the classic Mini...

The poor Mini has the same handicap as the Corolla, absolutely no differencial brake installed. The poor car is not suited for any performance until some grease-monkey takes pity and gives it a sportsdiff and a bit wider tyres.

Since 165`s are unawayable it has to be 175`s, but with diff and tyres we`re starting to talk
 
There's plenty of cars I want to drive around the Nordschleife, but after doing some acclimation and reconnaissance, there was an obvious candidate for the first wheels to turn around the Green Hell in anger...



Sadly, the 956 recently added to the game is not in Short Tail configuration - talk about a missed opportunity!

The track definitely feels bumpier than it did in FM7, no doubt thanks to the new suspension & tire physics. This did result in a couple Code Browns when I felt the car get upset at high speed... But honestly, for its reputation, this old Porsche felt more manageable than I would've assumed. Kudos to T10 for resisting the temptation to overdo the turbo lag of the flat-6, as other supposedly more realistic games did.

It's also nice that we are now able to use the kerbs - although the taller, old-school ones are still quite tricky and will toss you into a barrier if you overstep.

Forza Motorsport-2024_02_17-23_11_35.png


This laptime would've put me in P2 at the start of the infamous 1983 Nurburgring 1000km, so I'm quite happy with it... For now.
 
Gotta getta blooming move on...!
The Mini 1965 at 219hp comes in 10m58.657 and is the first to breach the 11 minute barrier.

Livery is by ShokuPanMike - unfortunately the lettering on the back is out of line (I'm guessing that's a change in FM23 compared to FM7.
20240218_135050.jpg


(oops - uploaded the slower first lap by mistake! Anyway, time still stands)



Although at these speeds there's still no need to call The Self Preservation Society... ;)
 
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I had some time to kill today, and I decided it would be appropriate to test the latest and meanest in German trackday-spec GT around the Northern Loop. And so, Affalterbach's finest, the Mercedes-AMG GT Black Series, squares off against the current-gen Porsche 911 GT3.

Of course, this isn't necessarily a fair comparison. While the two cars share a similar ethos, the AMG takes it much further, with an outrageous aerodynamics package, and an extra 200 ponies under the hood to offset the 200 kilos extra mass. A better contest would see the Black Series pitted against the newer GT3 RS - but I digress. What's important is that both cars are rear-wheel drive and should have comparable levels of performance, but are otherwise very different in terms of engine placement (one being a long-nosed, front/mid-rear GT car, the other being... Well, a 911) and propulsion (with a twin turbo V8 in the Merc, a naturally-aspirated flat-6 in the Porsche).



The Merc handles much better than I would've expected based on how similar cars behaved in previous Forza titles - exhibiting a noticeable, but manageable tendency towards understeer and monstrous acceleration thanks to its 800Nm of torque. Interestingly, the massive wing also seems to make the car "tail heavy" in flight, something that can be noticed at the Flugplatz.

My final laptime was a 7:09.524, about 25 seconds slower than the 6:43 the car set in real life.

Forza Motorsport-2024_02_19-18_23_13.png



If the AMG is a mighty hammer that must be swung around with a certain deliberation, the rear-engined 911 is nimble and precise like the proverbial scalpel... At least, until there's a bump. When that happens, the weight rapidly shifts to the rear and off the front wheels, resulting in sudden understeer which has made corners like the Hohe Acht quite tricky to tackle cleanly. Still, it was quite a fun ride.

As for laptimes, the GT3 - which sits a whole 60pp lower than the Black Series - is also 15 seconds slower, with a 7:26.062. In real life, it was clocked at 6:55, a full 30 seconds faster.

Forza Motorsport-2024_02_19-18_35_54.png

But wait, we're doing track-focused GTs with ludicrous aero parts and plenty of development spent around the 'ring. Ain't I forgetting something?



RAAAAAAAAAAAAAA WHAT THE **** IS A KILOMETER! The Corvette Z06 crashes this German grudge match with its 5.5 litre 'murican V8, mounted midships. As one would expect, the mid-engined 'vette is incredibly eager to tackle corners, and it shows in fact signs of snap oversteer (which resulted in a scary moment when I let off the throttle at the Schwedenkreuz). Alas, it is badly let down by its gear ratios, which are more suited for highway driving than hotlapping: through a whole lap I only ever managed to put it in fifth on the Döttinger Hohe, and the top-most three gears sat unused altogether.

Still, the Z06 manages a very respectable 7:20.911 - which puts it, again, 25-to-30 seconds away from the most credible estimates of its real-life potential.

Forza Motorsport-2024_02_19-18_03_56.png

Now, I noted the gap between my laptimes and the real-world records for the respective models (or, in the case of the Corvette, the most educated guesses) for a reason.
I'll admit that I'm not the fastest Forza driver by a long shot, especially when it comes to cars that run on grooved tires. But I can wheel racecars around the Green Hell pretty fast, and I gave all three cars involved in the test all they got, so, why the 30-second gap? The conditions I've picked for my experiment (mid-afternoon with thunderclouds and 50% track rubbering) were obviously not ideal, and probably didn't help. But I suspect the main discrepancy with real life is that the "Sport" tires in the game are simply not up to par with the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup rubber that's near ubiquitous on trackday specials (and is, in fact, standard equipment for all three cars tested).

I'll have to run another test with race tires, perhaps on a Wet compound to get grooves. Alas, tire compounds are still level-locked, so this experiment will have to wait until the next Game Update...
 
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@ClydeYellow

What camera-view do you use? If you are not already inside the cars, try that. It gives a completely different feel and control around the many turns around the ring
 
Every game with the Nordschleife needs a dedicated time trial thread. So without further ado...

Here's my efforts so far (they don't call me Captain Dead Slow for nothing :lol: ). I am running 2 laps in each car to get a better feel for what a "normalised" time would be (for me at least).

I have also started running the cars from lowest PI upwards.

The Toyota Corolla 1974 at 181PI was 11m38.761

I had to do the Corolla-test. Bone stock 88hp open diff..

Made up a 3-lap race with 23 AI`s, was in the lead as soon as the track opened up.

11.22.0 first lap, 11.14.0 second, dared a bit more on the third and did 11.05. 836.

Small engines like this gains a lot of manual gearing, and cockpit-view is a huge plus around such a twisted track ;)
 
@ClydeYellow

What camera-view do you use? If you are not already inside the cars, try that. It gives a completely different feel and control around the many turns around the ring
I'm strictly #cockpitview gang. Even without haptic triggers, the level of feedback and fine control we have in FM23 is miles beyond FM7 - I had a couple moments where I could feel the car fast approaching its grip limits and correct with small steering inputs or throttle adjustments.

All in all, I'm having as much fun around the Nordschleife here than I did in Assetto Corsa, and this greatly reignitied my waning interest in the game. Sadly, I can only imagine how it must play on a wheel after fiddling with the FFB settings...
 
Hey @sirjim73, nice thread. :)

As you know me, me love me some Nords hot lapping :P, so from June or so I'll be posting my times here as well. Gonna hot lap around 100 cars or so, starting a bit faster though, with the NSX-R '92, working my way up.

Already hot lapped 10 cars so far, and as far as I can say, on average the lap times in FM seem to be much more realistic, than in GT. At least so far, we'll see if that changes with the faster cars a la AMG Black Series and the like.

So yeah, watch out for my YT channel from June onwards. :P
 

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