The "Online Boost" demystified

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 5: Prologue' started by unimental, Jan 19, 2008.

  1. unimental

    unimental

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    There's been some brief mention in various threads about the so-called "online boost" which occurs during online events. This appears to be present to help keep the field from spreading out too much and also give drivers who have "offs" a chance to get back into contention.

    I had posted in the Online Events thread that I felt it wasn't so much a boost to racers back in the pack, but in fact a handicap placed on drivers in the front of the field. I had the perfect chance to finally prove this out this morning.

    After a few online races in the Pro Suzuka F430 event, I re-visited the Arcade to try shaving some seconds off my hot-lap time. First lap, on S3 tires, came in at a little over 2:17, and I ended the session with nearly a 2:16 flat. I then returned to the online race and ended up in a race between myself and one other driver. He ended up off the track early on the first lap, and his marker on the track map stopped moving. Apparently he'd pulled off and quit.

    Perfect, now it's just me, the track, and the clock for two full laps. No drafting, no traffic. First full speed lap was a 2.24. That's almost eight full seconds slower than my best hot-lap. The final lap came in at 2:23.5, which again was way off my normal pace. My line, entries, and exits were all solid.

    I finished the race, then went back to time-trialing, but this time selected S1 tires. First lap was a 2.21, still a good bit faster (and sloppier, LOL) than the best S3 lap I could manage just minutes ago during the online race. Keep in mind this was my first attempt ever with the F430 on S1 tires and it only took one lap to beat the S3 time from the online race.

    So... it boils down to this:

    The further ahead the leaders are in the race, the more of a penalty they receive in terms of grip and physics. Drivers in the back of the pack do not get a boost, but stay closer to the original grip/physics settings of the race.

    I'm annoyed by the implementation of this practice, which seems more fit for an arcade game or at least beginner/amateur level online races. I also truly hope it does not find its way into the final GT5 package, or at the very least isn't present in "professional" setting online races.
     
  2. Jay

    Jay Premium

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    As I said in another thread, good work on figuring out whats going on.

    This really annoys me also, especially since from all translations PD have not documented any handicaps at all, so most never realise. Personally I noticed it get much worse after the second update (first update was Dec 25th) and hardly play online since.
     
  3. turbomp301

    turbomp301

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    It's all in how you look at it or the situation your in.

    Say, if your duking it with someone out for first and second place in a 16 car race, then both cars should be equally handicapped. If you go off and he keeps it on the track, then your car would be unhandicapped or boosted.

    I get what your saying though.

    I still think PD should clarify this system themselves.
     
  4. Tyre King

    Tyre King Premium

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    I was going to mention something like this the other night, but got distracted and forgot about it.

    I was racing the Suzuka race, and as you would expect, the first lap was quite close. The car felt planted and grippy enough compared to previous races.
    Then at the end of the lap 2nd and 3rd had a bit of a 'handbags at dawn' moment, and dropped back to over 13 seconds behind @ the line.
    I carried on as normal and hit the brakes at the right spot for the first corner, only to find myself sliding through the apex that I should have been driving through and only just making the corner. Then, through the esses, anti-banked and dunlop corners there was so little grip from the tyres I had to drop 5-7 mph from normal per corner just to get round them.
    By the time I had got to the Degner corners, 2nd was back within 10 seconds and the tyres started gripping again.

    If this is what PD think is a fair way of handicapping faster/cleaner drivers who shoot off into the sunset purely due to clean fast driving, this does not bode well for all our ambitions of holding races against each other on a level playing field!

    As less grip and sliding tyres means more tyre wear, that therefor must make it more improbable for a level playing field for all participants on that front. Which, being a long race forum user, is what I would be looking for.
    It would mean that there would be less chance of getting a 25-40 laps race done cleanly, purely because at any point you could find yourself with virtually no grip at a corner where you have always had it before. Random oil-slick conditions went out of fashion with micro-machines for god's sake.

    Neil
     
  5. GT4 genius

    GT4 genius

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    I dont have the game myself but this sounds terrible. If a driver is good enough to leave the pack behind well then so be it, let him he deserves it. But this thing is stupid, what about recorded lap times they would also be hampered because of this. And this is suppose to be a simulator i dont think this is practiced in any real life motor sport.
     
  6. The--Beast

    The--Beast

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    unimental thanks for your diagnosis .I really don't understand why they would put any kind of catch up system in place . I think we have to question their thinking here. :banghead:
     
  7. thesuperfunk

    thesuperfunk

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    bizarre ... i hope this is sorted in a future update or at latest by the time the full game gets released!
     
  8. Arwin

    Arwin

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    This explains a lot! I noticed some really weird stuff on the clock in these online races, like first laps being much faster than second/third, etc. This went hand in hand with me typically leading the pack straight from the start. So now I understand, thanks!

    I actually do enjoy the challenge, but I'd much prefer just ending up racing people that are actually equally fast, because the car becomes so much harder to drive. It really doesn't deserve to be in the professional mode, maybe it's more something for the arcade mode.

    However, the good news is that it's extremely likely that this is an option that will be configurable. Also, I am fairly certain that this option hasn't been on in all of the different online events that I've been in so far ... For instance, the previous three-lapper I'm fairly sure didn't have this option on - my laps and speeds were very consistent in it and I could always push my (599) to the same level each turn.

    But from now on I'll know what to look for!
     
  9. spyrrari

    spyrrari

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    talking about bizarre things!: i whas racing the oval last night and (as allways...)i started at the back of the field...just before the race started say 5 seconds before you go "on board" i jumped from 16th to 8th place!!!!...i thought imm that half of the other players logged out or had a (too familiar!!)network faillure....but no!!i was (on screen!)put in between the ones before and after 8th place and the race started and all finished the race(wich i won...:):):))!!!!!!!!!it was like the onlinebox decided that i had to move up or something??!!??!!??.....and about the boost thing...i think strongly that this will be sorted out shortly beceause some japaneese friends of mine say that in japan this same story is "online" so the complaints will hopefully reach the gt-office sooner than we think!...spyrrari.:)
     
  10. Sphinx

    Sphinx Staff Emeritus

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    I say it's both. The leaders get slower and the backmarkers get a boost, just like in GT4.

    When racing GT4 online or at a LAN meet we can turn the boost off in options, and I'm sure that will be done in GT5. The boost won't allow the backmarkers to catch up completly, the boost will cut off gradually and stop short of that.

    Having raced GT4 online for a number of years now I can honestly say that it is the draft that is the killer for any race leader. In order for the leader to pull away from the second place car he/she has to gain a lead more than 1.6sec. This means that a lesser skilled driver can still beat a driver who is 1.5sec faster on a lap. There is nothing worse in online racing than losing to a slower driver by .001, due to the draft. :grumpy:
     
  11. spyrrari

    spyrrari

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    agree with you on the gt4 part...but about the drafting:i drvi on german highways(no speed limits you know!!)a lot and there are severall techniques to avoid that your purchaser to catch your draft fully!...driving just of the racingline in fast corners is one of them,the others are my secret:sly::sly:
     
  12. The--Beast

    The--Beast

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    The fact that you can turn the catch up off in GT4 LAN is very good news and quite a relief .


    Thanks.
     
  13. m7ammed

    m7ammed

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    maybe the faster you go the more tire wear you have which = slower lap times?
     
  14. Sphinx

    Sphinx Staff Emeritus

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    Well of course I'm talking about driving with some degree of driving etiquette that would limit your options to aviod such drafting, like weaving from left to right for example. :tup:

    If you have a driver in 2nd place who knows what he/she is doing, then it's more than possible to keep up with any GT alien driver. In the WRS 1.6sec is in many cases the difference between a division 1 and a division 2 driver.

    I've just tested GT4 two player with boost on and the leader does lose time and the backmarker also has the ability to increase its lap times.
     
  15. DoctorRudd

    DoctorRudd

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    I drive on german highways 40.000 kilometers a year. If you are drafting on it, you are much to close to the next car. Don´t do this if you are a serious driver:grumpy:
    German highways are no racetracks for drafting:ouch:
     
  16. spyrrari

    spyrrari

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    than we havnt met on the autobahn dude...dont be a little boy here ,obviously you dont get it....sorry man but you must have been driving on the "middle lane"....if you know what i meen:sly:........(if not...try the a3 between kolln and frankfurt at night!!!!...on weekends saturday after midnight...lots of drafting there mate...lots..and lots and....lots:)

    oh ya....dont worry mate...i respect the germen highways sinds i was looking over my fathers shoulder when a kid !!!!...he allways showed me how to use and not abuse the no speed limit rule...so dont worry,you wont find me hanging at your bumper when speeding....respect!
     
  17. MGR

    MGR

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    Interesting results. :tup:

    I assume in Arcade mode you are 100% sure you were using 'Professional' physics setting as opposed to standard?

    There's no doubt the drivers toward the back of the pack have an advantage over those at the front. But you've just assumed that the last place cars receive no additional 'boost'. Perhaps you could do a couple of online races where you wait a minute or so at the start line at the beginning of the race, then try to catch the leaders - and compare the lap times to your arcade/time trial times?
     
  18. unimental

    unimental

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    Indeed, that's the mode I used. "Amateur" lap times would be much higher.

    I did just that a day or so ago before I originally posted the theory on front-runner handicap. I mention over in the GT5:p online races thread that hanging back at the start resulted in lap times comparable to time-trials. The car won't go faster than a time-trial scenario in online play, unless you're drafting.

    I can see we both think alike! :)
     
  19. Tyre King

    Tyre King Premium

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    No offense meant here buddy, ok?

    But He, and others (including myself) have reported what we have experienced during the races, from hours of repeating them to get the front end handicap worked out.
    What's stopping you doing the catch-up boost experimentation?
    Apart from the fact that it's not as rewarding to do, that is!

    Neil
     
  20. MGR

    MGR

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    In that case I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head re: the handicap system. :tup: I would've preferred making the slower cars quicker/more grip etc, rather than progressively penalising the quick cars. :grumpy:

    I can safely say that there are members on this forum that have a significant more amount of time available to them to play with their PS3. With work, family and other commitments I'm lucky to get a couple of hours week. (Usually at 11:00pm at night onwards)

    And as it turns out unimental had already done what I had suggested. I just saved myself another hour. :)
     
  21. Turbo91GT

    Turbo91GT (Banned)

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    That makes perfect sense, because I am pretty good at playing Gran Turismo since I have been playing since the first one came out. When I fall behind I can catch up really quickly, but when I am in front I seem to have problems driving and the cars don't handle like it seems like they should. It makes much more sense to me.
     
  22. Rocket Punch

    Rocket Punch

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    SEE!!!!! I told you so..in a way. So, this is how PD reward good drivers, they penalize you....

    LMAO!!!! Real Driving Simulator my 455!

    If they must penalize good driving, at least come up with something logical like weight penalty according to online win/lost ratio. This handicap system is not only childish, but also a lazy way to code....sigh
     
  23. DaveTheStalker

    DaveTheStalker Premium

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    Has this theory been tested at the current Daytona race with the S-Class cars on R3 tires?
     
  24. XterminatorX

    XterminatorX

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    This so called boost is only when you are in the draft of the car in front... As you know when you are in clean air you'll hear the wind noice in car, once you are in the car in front that wind sound stops... That indicates you are in they dirty air, thus your cars speed increases from the lack of resistance
     
  25. daan

    daan Moderator

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    Have you read the thread? I think they know its not the lack of slipstream that's the issue....
     
  26. DaveTheStalker

    DaveTheStalker Premium

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    A little off topic, but I wonder if PD got the in draft lack of downforce physics right?

    Again, you guys that are able to notice this handicapping, would you please test the theory on Daytona....before PD changes the online events again?
     
  27. Rocket Punch

    Rocket Punch

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    IMO, yes.

    However, even if they code something in, it will probably be an effect and not actually simulating the physics of aerodynamics. Unless they publish what their game engine actually simulates and what is an effect, i guess we will never know.

    One thing I am sure is not in the code is the difference in grip, on and off the racing line; Which makes overtaking kind of unrealistic.

    Ultimately all of that doesn't matter if/when "Boost" or "Handicap" is in place...lol.
     
  28. Ben Aracin

    Ben Aracin

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    This goes right along with the lack of grip in Daytona's banking at higher speed's, and the really nice F1 tech brakes to be able to get those short braking points.
    Gee how realistic.....just what i wanted, no flag penalties, just that returned crap time penalty.
    And now a boost feature in "professional" mode.Even if the option to turn it off is present, it shouldn't even be an option in Pro mode.
    If it wasn't for the possible downloadable updates for the PS3 i'd think everyone that wanted a more realistic GT should be very worried/upset as supposedly there is only one year left. (which i doubt).
     
  29. Rocket Punch

    Rocket Punch

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    I am sure a host selectable "boost" feature will be in the final build.
     
  30. spyrrari

    spyrrari

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    sure it will man!:)...to all gt-fans: do you remember the prologue for gt4????....i played it today for 10min and than i raced gt4 and suddenly remembered how everybody here was screeming(including me) how mutch better the final product whas!!!!....so,taking your memory back a few years dont you think gt5 will be as good as we all think it will be ????.......................i do!!:)