The "Online Boost" demystified

  • Thread starter unimental
  • 431 comments
  • 32,079 views
82
GTP_FlyingLizard
i noticed that as well but i always figured well maybe i wasnt as fast as i think i was. But if this is in fact the case than i hope updates will change that because if you are punished for beeing fast than that takes the sense out of racing.

There's been some brief mention in various threads about the so-called "online boost" which occurs during online events. This appears to be present to help keep the field from spreading out too much and also give drivers who have "offs" a chance to get back into contention.

I had posted in the Online Events thread that I felt it wasn't so much a boost to racers back in the pack, but in fact a handicap placed on drivers in the front of the field. I had the perfect chance to finally prove this out this morning.

After a few online races in the Pro Suzuka F430 event, I re-visited the Arcade to try shaving some seconds off my hot-lap time. First lap, on S3 tires, came in at a little over 2:17, and I ended the session with nearly a 2:16 flat. I then returned to the online race and ended up in a race between myself and one other driver. He ended up off the track early on the first lap, and his marker on the track map stopped moving. Apparently he'd pulled off and quit.

Perfect, now it's just me, the track, and the clock for two full laps. No drafting, no traffic. First full speed lap was a 2.24. That's almost eight full seconds slower than my best hot-lap. The final lap came in at 2:23.5, which again was way off my normal pace. My line, entries, and exits were all solid.

I finished the race, then went back to time-trialing, but this time selected S1 tires. First lap was a 2.21, still a good bit faster (and sloppier, LOL) than the best S3 lap I could manage just minutes ago during the online race. Keep in mind this was my first attempt ever with the F430 on S1 tires and it only took one lap to beat the S3 time from the online race.

So... it boils down to this:

The further ahead the leaders are in the race, the more of a penalty they receive in terms of grip and physics. Drivers in the back of the pack do not get a boost, but stay closer to the original grip/physics settings of the race.

I'm annoyed by the implementation of this practice, which seems more fit for an arcade game or at least beginner/amateur level online races. I also truly hope it does not find its way into the final GT5 package, or at the very least isn't present in "professional" setting online races.
 
668
ChadSpeed
xBSxChadSpeed
I can't believe this thread is only 2 pages long. I guess everyone here is pretty confident it will not be a problem in the full game. But with all of GT5Ps shortcomings in the online department, adding this to makes almost useless to me. I can't even fathom why PD would think its a good idea to have in every online race. It makes practicing the tracks in TT irrelevant if all you cornering speeds and braking points are going to change when you race online, hell it sounds like they change multiple times in one race. What a freakin joke. I'm excited to get GT5P in a couple weeks but after being spoiled by much better online racing games I can see that is were my problems will be with GT. I'm glad its just a demo.
 
589
GTP_Profi
Whats this?
I also noticed the "Online-Boost" and have to say: NO, i dont like it at all !

If conditions (grip or whatever) is going to change depending if your first or last or somewhere in between its going to be unpredictable for the driver and will certainly lead to mistakes of judging the correct braking-points or cornering speeds.

So you will be wondering why - but you will be sliding off the track !

I also say if a driver is capable to go fast and constant laptimes - let him go- he deserves it and i have to do more practice.

I think the reason behind this behavior is due to the Offline racing which is intentionally done by the devs to make those events more thrilling.
They simply did not alter this for the online. At least not by now / Prologue.

Have to add: I even dont like it for the offline events...
 

magburner

Premium
2,693
Wales
The Empire State
magburner, GTP_madgurner, showtime_uk
Has this theory been tested at the current Daytona race with the S-Class cars on R3 tires?

There is no penalty on the 650 point Daytona Super Speedway whatsoever. Either that, or I'm so good that my skills negate it! Personally, I'd go with the former. :sly:

I've raced my way up to the 2,000,000 credit limit just on Daytona Super Speedway (with a tuned 'Motorsport' Elise with R1/R3's), and not once in any race have I had the slightest suspicion that there was any form of penalty for the race leader, none whatsoever. Not on the first lap, the last lap or any lap in between. If there was some sort of penalty, would I regularly finish 1 to 3 seconds ahead of the pack?
 
There's been some brief mention in various threads about the so-called "online boost" which occurs during online events. This appears to be present to help keep the field from spreading out too much and also give drivers who have "offs" a chance to get back into contention.

I had posted in the Online Events thread that I felt it wasn't so much a boost to racers back in the pack, but in fact a handicap placed on drivers in the front of the field. I had the perfect chance to finally prove this out this morning.

After a few online races in the Pro Suzuka F430 event, I re-visited the Arcade to try shaving some seconds off my hot-lap time. First lap, on S3 tires, came in at a little over 2:17, and I ended the session with nearly a 2:16 flat. I then returned to the online race and ended up in a race between myself and one other driver. He ended up off the track early on the first lap, and his marker on the track map stopped moving. Apparently he'd pulled off and quit.

Perfect, now it's just me, the track, and the clock for two full laps. No drafting, no traffic. First full speed lap was a 2.24. That's almost eight full seconds slower than my best hot-lap. The final lap came in at 2:23.5, which again was way off my normal pace. My line, entries, and exits were all solid.

I finished the race, then went back to time-trialing, but this time selected S1 tires. First lap was a 2.21, still a good bit faster (and sloppier, LOL) than the best S3 lap I could manage just minutes ago during the online race. Keep in mind this was my first attempt ever with the F430 on S1 tires and it only took one lap to beat the S3 time from the online race.

So... it boils down to this:

The further ahead the leaders are in the race, the more of a penalty they receive in terms of grip and physics. Drivers in the back of the pack do not get a boost, but stay closer to the original grip/physics settings of the race.

I'm annoyed by the implementation of this practice, which seems more fit for an arcade game or at least beginner/amateur level online races. I also truly hope it does not find its way into the final GT5 package, or at the very least isn't present in "professional" setting online races.

This is VERY VERY VERY bad news
 
221
GTP_Vincent; Verad
Verad
Perhaps PD should rename "Professional" to be "Amateur," and then add a mode with all hidden aids/penalties turned off and call this one either "Professional" or "Simulation." Otherwise, they should restrict this kind of stuff to the Standard mode. I'm not liking this news at all.
 

highlightshadow

Premium
151
United Kingdom
Nottingham, UK
highlightshadow
Do we know exactly how the penalty manifests itself.... meaning if its grip levels then surely a leader is gonna head into a corner at a certain speed and brake at certain markers and then potentially overcook the corner and have an off.

Even if its just engine power then a good player is then gonna brake too early for a corner and lose a lot of time either way.
 

Greycap

The Flying Finn
Premium
5,670
Finland
Finland
I highly doubt the existence of this system. If it exists, could someone explain how is it possible for me to start ten seconds behind, gain on the leader five seconds on a lap at Suzuka, overtake him in the beginning of the third lap and then proceed to win with a margin of five seconds? Or to start five seconds behind, get to the lead on the first lap and then proceed to win by some ten seconds?

My logic says that after overtaking I should get some kind of a performance penalty which would slow me down. Instead I keep building the gap and usually finish the race with my fastest lap. The braking points stay the same, the cornering speeds stay the same. The only difference is actually an increase in grip as the tyres warm up. Otherwise I would be flying off the track pretty regularly but I'm not.

Moreover, 95% of the posts in this thread are about the Japanese version as the PAL version hadn't been released when they were written. Everyone is making assumptions based on those postings without paying a thought to the fact that we now have a thing called PAL GT5P Spec II which is quite different from the original Japanese version in just about every way. The posts of magburner and me pretty clearly say that there aren't such penalties. How about finding out yourselves before saying that the system is crap?
 

Duke

Keep 'em separated
Staff Emeritus
24,041
United States
Midlantic Area
GTP_Duke
This isn't really that bad if you ask me, PD just wants you to have closer races. :P

..which is all NASCAR wants, too, yet everybody complains mightily that NASCAR isn't "real racing".

I hate rubberband physics - have since GT3 - and I sincerely hope that if it is applied to GT5, that it is 100% defeatible through options.
 
221
GTP_Vincent; Verad
Verad
I highly doubt the existence of this system. If it exists, could someone explain how is it possible for me to start ten seconds behind, gain on the leader five seconds on a lap at Suzuka, overtake him in the beginning of the third lap and then proceed to win with a margin of five seconds? Or to start five seconds behind, get to the lead on the first lap and then proceed to win by some ten seconds?

My logic says that after overtaking I should get some kind of a performance penalty which would slow me down. Instead I keep building the gap and usually finish the race with my fastest lap. The braking points stay the same, the cornering speeds stay the same. The only difference is actually an increase in grip as the tyres warm up. Otherwise I would be flying off the track pretty regularly but I'm not.

[bold]Moreover, 95% of the posts in this thread are about the Japanese version as the PAL version hadn't been released when they were written. [/bold]Everyone is making assumptions based on those postings without paying a thought to the fact that we now have a thing called PAL GT5P Spec II which is quite different from the original Japanese version in just about every way. The posts of magburner and me pretty clearly say that there aren't such penalties. How about finding out yourselves before saying that the system is crap?

Whoa, didn't realize this thread was old. This is necroposting gone horribly wrong. :ouch: Ever since Spec II, has anyone noticed this effect who had noticed it before?

I am unfortunately unable to test this myself (I am waiting on the US release), so I had to rely upon others' findings. My apologies. :nervous:
 
284
unimental
Unimental
I highly doubt the existence of this system. If it exists, could someone explain how is it possible for me to start ten seconds behind, gain on the leader five seconds on a lap at Suzuka, overtake him in the beginning of the third lap and then proceed to win with a margin of five seconds? Or to start five seconds behind, get to the lead on the first lap and then proceed to win by some ten seconds?

Are you using a tuned Lotus model? Because if you are and are adept with it, you'll likely still be faster than most other cars even if you've got a grip penalty (check the leaderboards for the PP650 time trials for Suzuka to see what I'm referring to). The performance point caps for races and the tuning aspect have created a much wider range of potential lap times, as opposed to the pre-Spec II car list.

Moreover, 95% of the posts in this thread are about the Japanese version as the PAL version hadn't been released when they were written. Everyone is making assumptions based on those postings without paying a thought to the fact that we now have a thing called PAL GT5P Spec II which is quite different from the original Japanese version in just about every way. The posts of magburner and me pretty clearly say that there aren't such penalties. How about finding out yourselves before saying that the system is crap?

Keep in mind that the JPN version has also been updated to Spec II. Since you and magburner seem to be winning a lot of races, try this experiment: get into the lead and check you're final lap time on a clean, no-draft lap. Then see what you're best lap is on the PP650 online time-trial events.
 

nasanu

(Banned)
1,429
Japan
Australia
nasanu
nasanu
get into the lead and check you're final lap time on a clean, no-draft lap. Then see what you're best lap is on the PP650 online time-trial events.

I actually cant get near my time trial times online. I do consistent 204 to 205s in the time trials, but 206 to 230s online (in races). But I fined it harder to concentrate online and once I get into the lead the challenge for me is gone and my lap times drop off anyway. Its hard to tell if there is catch up logic at work or not. But sometimes when I have been well out in front I have really pushed and only got a 208. Needs more testing to tell weather catch up is still active.
 
21
toolboy1
toolboy1
Instead I keep building the gap and usually finish the race with my fastest lap. The braking points stay the same, the cornering speeds stay the same. The only difference is actually an increase in grip as the tyres warm up. Otherwise I would be flying off the track pretty regularly but I'm not.

Are you saying there is simulated tyre temp in GT5P?
I haven't noticed this yet.
 
OMG there is boosting in this game?. How terrible is that!!. PD should be ashamed of themselfs calling this a "real driving simulator" of any sort. Just terrible
 
Last day I was leading on Fuji with a 9 seconds margin, and I found that my brake points were substantially changed. I suppose this supports the theory.
 
Is this only online? or happens on single player aswell? Can't beleive they would add this crap to the game period. Maybe I will wait for the full version to come out after hearing this... :(
 

magburner

Premium
2,693
Wales
The Empire State
magburner, GTP_madgurner, showtime_uk
Moreover, 95% of the posts in this thread are about the Japanese version as the PAL version hadn't been released when they were written. Everyone is making assumptions based on those postings without paying a thought to the fact that we now have a thing called PAL GT5P Spec II which is quite different from the original Japanese version in just about every way. The posts of magburner and me pretty clearly say that there aren't such penalties. How about finding out yourselves before saying that the system is crap?

Here is another angle on the situation. Do the driving aids 'aid' a driver more if they are behind? For instance, could ASM increase to give the player better control of his car?
 

nasanu

(Banned)
1,429
Japan
Australia
nasanu
nasanu
No doubt there is still catch up logic in all races post specII (i was told in another thread there was none in the pro race).

In the Suzkua pro race tonight I did a 2:03.xx lap time while way behind (i even got pushed off the track at one stage by a car recovering from a spin). In another race while 10 seconds out in front all I could manage was a 2:10.xxx. No way there was 7 seconds difference in my driving.

I am not noticing less grip, but the car seems sluggish like I have less power. Who knows...
 
28
GTP-Michel
When I'm leading the race, my laptimes are about 3 to 4 seconds slower compared to my online trail times. I'm playing PAL specII. , usually GT-R or Elise @ Suzuka
 
35
GTP_Tasco
I could not "test" this, all I can say is that my racing times are way slower than time trials, even if I have no traffic on the track.
If I get pushed out during the first lap, it usually takes 3-4 corners to get back to the group, which is strange because on PP650 races the drivers are usually fast.
I did not test my lap times when I'm leading because when it happens I'm too concentrated on keeping the lead :)
Guaranteed this "feature" does not replace skills, as if I race someone much faster than me (and I'm not a complete turtla) I still can't catch him.
 

DustDriver

Smartass
Staff Emeritus
4,498
Belgium
Limburg,Belgium
(GTP_) dustdriver
I noticed too that i could get to the first spot easily in some races, but once i got to first position it looked like the person in second had almost no trouble keeping up with me, even though his racing line wasn't the best and he got a penalty for touching a wall a bit to hard.
 
162
GTP_yannc
I'm experiencing the same thing. I can go down to 2.05 on online event susuka Pro time trial but never managed to go under 2.10 on the pro race (and I don't play it safe).
However, whatever they are doing, it is not noticable when driving.
 
I've noticed a difference of up to three seconds per lap if you are running in front or running at the back, with the same kind of clean laps and no slipstreaming.

The online game was already bad enough with no private lobbies or race options, but this makes it a complete joke.

It doesn't matter how well you do. You could have a perfect race and then a guy who spun on the first lap will still catch you.

So much for "the real driving simulator"...
 

magburner

Premium
2,693
Wales
The Empire State
magburner, GTP_madgurner, showtime_uk
Keep in mind that the JPN version has also been updated to Spec II. Since you and magburner seem to be winning a lot of races, try this experiment: get into the lead and check you're final lap time on a clean, no-draft lap. Then see what you're best lap is on the PP650 online time-trial events.

Your logic is flawed. You are wrongly assuming that because you set a time, you should be able to race that time every time no matter what, which is simply just not the case. There are many reasons why you may not be able to achieve your personal best, and the majority of them do not involve an 'online boost system'.

Does it matter if there is no correlation between your PP Time Trail Time, and your race time? I don't think so. The fact that Greycap and myself have both said we can 'pull away' when in the lead proves that there can be no boost system in operation.
 

nasanu

(Banned)
1,429
Japan
Australia
nasanu
nasanu
The fact that Greycap and myself have both said we can 'pull away' when in the lead proves that there can be no boost system in operation.

Absolute rubbish. I can pull away also, but I pull away by 1-3 seconds a lap rather than the 6-10 seconds a lap I can catch people by at Suzuka. It proves nothing.

There is certainly catch up logic in place. In the same night in almost back to back races I did a 2:03.4xx while far behind which would have been a record lap if another car did not push me onto the grass. A couple of races later I was taking excellent lines while I had a huge lead and could not get better than a 2:08. How else do you explain that?
 
28
GTP-Michel
Pulling away isn't so much of a problem when you're racing people who are simply (much) slower. I can do very consistent splits/laptimes with the GT-R because it's relatively easy to throw around and it's pretty noticeable still.. you'll have to screw up your lap big time to loose 3 or 4 seconds (or even more sometimes), there's no way a "bad apex" or a "slightly missed brakingpoint" justifies 3 or more seconds. If you're out for the first time on the track with an unknown car..yea then I can imagine it.. but not if you have more then 4 years online simracing experience (and there are a lot experienced people around here)
 
668
ChadSpeed
xBSxChadSpeed
Absolute rubbish. I can pull away also, but I pull away by 1-3 seconds a lap rather than the 6-10 seconds a lap I can catch people by at Suzuka. It proves nothing.

There is certainly catch up logic in place. In the same night in almost back to back races I did a 2:03.4xx while far behind which would have been a record lap if another car did not push me onto the grass. A couple of races later I was taking excellent lines while I had a huge lead and could not get better than a 2:08. How else do you explain that?

Even for me, an inconsistent lapper, I always stay within 1 or 2 seconds within a race with out a wreck, so seeing you guys having this issue of over 5 or 8 seconds sucks. The online is a joke right now. I hope it gets better.💡