The penalty system thread

[JacoJa]

Hi all!

OK, so I spent this afternoon preparing myself for the very first online trial runs for both the Nations cup and the Manufacturers Series. I currently have a driver rating of 'B' and a sportsmanship rating of 'S', so I haven't had many problems with the opponents I've been matched with recently. The biggest problem I've had with the online racing so far is the penalty system, which I find is way too harsh at times. A few times it has destroyed my race completely after I got caught up in an accident with other drivers, or even if I took evasive action to avoid an opponent blocking the track. It's a big problem if Polyphony intend on providing fair races for the FIA championships.

Here is a video clip of what happened during my first Manufacturers cup race. I am driving the Toyota ahead, and the Alfa 4C (in chasecam) is being driven by an opponent behind. The Alfa driver came from too far back to overtake on the chicane... It was never going to work, and I didn't exactly see him until he ran into the side of me. The first bump actually gave me (in the Toyota) an instant 10-second time penalty. The Alfa driver on the other hand just sped off into the distance without any penalties at all... It was super annoying.



By creating this thread, I'm hoping we can show Polyphony the current weaknesses of the penalty system so that it can be revised and tweaked for future updates.

If you have any videos with penalties which have baffled you, please post them here! 👍

 

[GTWelsh]

Total idiot move, he didn't even outbrake himself, he wasn't on the limit or anything. But (sorry), being "that guy", you don't actually know if the Alfa had any penalties or not. That corner is throwing up a lot of these though and hopefully we can put all the complaints into this thread to not have a full forum of it, for my own sanity at least. Top job.

 

[JacoJa]

Total idiot move, he didn't even outbrake himself, he wasn't on the limit or anything. But (sorry), being "that guy", you don't actually know if the Alfa had any penalties or not. That corner is throwing up a lot of these though and hopefully we can put all the complaints into this thread to not have a full forum of it, for my own sanity at least. Top job.

Thanks mate. 👍 From what I read in another thread, it sounds like you've had your fair share or kamikaze drivers already.

Judging from the replay footage of the video clip above, the Alfa never lifted off the throttle for the rest of the race, so he definitely didn't get penaltised. I'm really glad this championship is only a trial.

 

[GTWelsh]

Thanks mate. 👍 From what I read in another thread, it sounds like you've had your fair share or kamikaze drivers already.

Judging from the replay footage of the video clip above, the Alfa never lifted off the throttle for the rest of the race, so he definitely didn't get penaltised. I'm really glad this championship is only a trial.

That sucks, no question it needs refining, hopefully you get a better bag of racers next time
I was very lucky in mine, the front of the grid had a good first few corners, by which point the front 3 (me 2nd) cleared off, clean race, probably carnage at the back.

I was also lucky when I got rammed by a back marker I didn't get a penalty!

 

[Sloppy Shades]

I see two taps there. The first when he hits you.. The second when you fight to get back on line and tap him. You probably got the penalty for the second. On the final results did it show a penalty in red for the guy? If not he probably got away with it cos the system thought YOU were brake checking!
Broken system for sure..

 

[GTP_MacGyver]

Regarding the penalties. It cannot be that its possible to reduce the penalty to 0 by just driving normal to the end. This need to be patched asap. It just happened to me in the suzuka manufacturers cup and i was - really unintended - the bad guy. I was in 3rd and came out of the hairpin slightly better than the guy in 2nd place. As we came close to the spoon i was durectly behind him. I just could see the rear of his car in front of me. I should have reduce a bit of speed and brake a bit earlier, dont know why i didnt do it but anyway... as soon as p2 was braking i rammed him off track (sorry for that). I got the 10 seconds penalty and 4 laps were to go. I just raced as usual to the end and in the middle of lap 10 the penalty was down to zero... i mean... wtf?! I really try always to be fair and respectful but a lot out there are not. With such a penalty system people will never stop to use it for their advantage. Its really kind of ridiculous...

 

[JacoJa]

I was also lucky when I got rammed by a back marker I didn't get a penalty!

Oh jeez, people like that anger me beyond belief. They really need to ghost the back markers being lapped. Or add a blue flag system.

I see two taps there. The first when he hits you.. The second when you fight to get back on line and tap him. You probably got the penalty for the second. On the final results did it show a penalty in red for the guy? If not he probably got away with it cos the system thought YOU were brake checking!
Broken system for sure..

Regarding the penalties. It cannot be that its possible to reduce the penalty to 0 by just driving normal to the end. This need to be patched asap. It just happened to me in the suzuka manufacturers cup and i was - really unintended - the bad guy. I was in 3rd and came out of the hairpin slightly better than the guy in 2nd place. As we came close to the spoon i was durectly behind him. I just could see the rear of his car in front of me. I should have reduce a bit of speed and brake a bit earlier, dont know why i didnt do it but anyway... as soon as p2 was braking i rammed him off track (sorry for that). I got the 10 seconds penalty and 4 laps were to go. I just raced as usual to the end and in the middle of lap 10 the penalty was down to zero... i mean... wtf?! I really try always to be fair and respectful but a lot out there are not. With such a penalty system people will never stop to use it for their advantage. Its really kind of ridiculous...

Ah ok, I didn't realise the penalty doesn't need to be taken immediately. In that case the Alfa 4c driver probably did get penalised, but it didn't matter anyway because the penalty reached 0 before the end. And both of our driver ratings were blue at the end of the race.

From what I've gathered... If the length of a race is 10 laps or more, you're effectively allowed to ram one person off the road per race without it effecting your sportsmanship rating. As long as you drive cleanly for the following 9 laps, your SR will be back in the blue by the end of the race, and the 10 second penalty will be gone. Brilliant!

 

[timekiller001]

In one of the daily races (the one at Lago whatever in the wrong direction) in the exit of the last corner the wall is very close to the track and you can easily push someone or get pushed in it, which makes you stop immediately.
That's what happened to me, I got pushed into it, had to wait until the whole field passed me (otherwise I would have crashed everyone). Once I got going again, I received a 15 second penalty. That was **** and I left.

It really needs improvement on whether someone gained an advantage or not. Otherwise I didn't have too many complaints yet

 

[Johnnypenso]

Hi all!
Here is a video clip of what happened during my first Manufacturers cup race. I am driving the Toyota ahead, and the Alfa 4C (in chasecam) is being driven by an opponent behind. The Alfa driver came from too far back to overtake on the chicane... It was never going to work, and I didn't exactly see him until he ran into the side of me. The first bump actually gave me (in the Toyota) an instant 10-second time penalty. The Alfa driver on the other hand just sped off into the distance without any penalties at all... It was super annoying.

Not only the bump should have been penalized but he had 4 wheels over the curb as well. If that isn't a track cut I don't now what is.

That sucks, no question it needs refining, hopefully you get a better bag of racers next time
I was very lucky in mine, the front of the grid had a good first few corners, by which point the front 3 (me 2nd) cleared off, clean race, probably carnage at the back.

I was also lucky when I got rammed by a back marker I didn't get a penalty!

Question. With a 10 second lead you find out the guy you are trying to lap is a tool. Why not just back off a few car lengths and keep an eye on your lead?

 

[GTWelsh]

Not only the bump should have been penalized but he had 4 wheels over the curb as well. If that isn't a track cut I don't now what is.

Question. With a 10 second lead you find out the guy you are trying to lap is a tool. Why not just back off a few car lengths and keep an eye on your lead?

It took me 6 laps to pass the guy that was in 1st, and thats only because he span after I backed out of a pass, he gave me room, even though he didn't have too because I wasn't even there and made a mistake. I wasn't letting those people get close in a hurry lol. He also set a 2.01 lap, I have never done one, not even in practice, then I got behind this tool that was swerving all over the track, driving defensively but generally being quick enough to not let me pass, as I got about half way past him he then swerves right into me (tyre squeal can be heard at least, still, could of been accidental having not seen me, but I don't have that much faith in him having seen the rest of it). Then you have the ever reliable SR system stopping me from pushing past him, knowing he deserved it.

I was also losing over 5 seconds a lap behind him. I ran 2.02 without mistake, 2.03 with mistake, I ran a 2.07 with 3/4 of the lap behind him, my lead wouldn't of lasted

 

[Earth]

First one was on today's GR.3 Oval race. Despite whoever you might think was in the wrong here, 10 seconds was way too much. I dont think I was in the wrong, and sometimes the following driver has to show some responsibility and lift from time to time.



This next one was in today's GR.4 Nurburgring race. Me and this guy go through the hairpin side by side and emerge side by side heading to the Schumacher esses. Normally in the Porsche I can make this turn full throttle easily, but with him on my outside I knew I had to lift to give him room on exit because my shallow entry was going to push me wide into him. So I lifted in the turn and stayed to the inside to give him room.

He pushed too hard, lost control and body slammed me off the track. Not a dirty move, but certainly one worthy of a penalty. Did he get one? No. Second was right on his tail after the incident and he won the race by half a second. No 10 second penalty for this, but the above video is a 10 second penalty?

 

[The5amkebab]

Regarding the penalties. It cannot be that its possible to reduce the penalty to 0 by just driving normal to the end. This need to be patched asap. It just happened to me in the suzuka manufacturers cup and i was - really unintended - the bad guy. I was in 3rd and came out of the hairpin slightly better than the guy in 2nd place. As we came close to the spoon i was durectly behind him. I just could see the rear of his car in front of me. I should have reduce a bit of speed and brake a bit earlier, dont know why i didnt do it but anyway... as soon as p2 was braking i rammed him off track (sorry for that). I got the 10 seconds penalty and 4 laps were to go. I just raced as usual to the end and in the middle of lap 10 the penalty was down to zero... i mean... wtf?! I really try always to be fair and respectful but a lot out there are not. With such a penalty system people will never stop to use it for their advantage. Its really kind of ridiculous...

Get rid of the time penalty and make it an automatic slow down for a number of seconds. Every other racing sim has it and it works well, it can't be exploited and its WAY more effective as a deterrent because its so annoying to be slowed down when you're having a good run. Just as you'd avoid crashing or going off the track to slow you down you'd definitely avoid anything that would cause a slow down penalty.

 

[Dan Vincent]

Your sportsmanship rating is S. It working just fine. Carry on.

 

[ShiftingGears]

It seems that you can cut the track at the last corner at Nurburgring and not incur a penalty.

 

[The5amkebab]

Your sportsmanship rating is S. It working just fine. Carry on.

*Facepalm* You have completely missed the point of the SR rating, its not a high score to be achieved, its a system to keep like minded drivers together, keep the good and safe with each other and the rammers and dirty drivers with each other. When both have an SR of S and the dirty drivers are ruining the races for the clean drivers it is not working at all.

 

[RotorHed]

Hi all!

OK, so I spent this afternoon preparing myself for the very first online trial runs for both the Nations cup and the Manufacturers Series. I currently have a driver rating of 'B' and a sportsmanship rating of 'S', so I haven't had many problems with the opponents I've been matched with recently. The biggest problem I've had with the online racing so far is the penalty system, which I find is way too harsh at times. A few times it has destroyed my race completely after I got caught up in an accident with other drivers, or even if I took evasive action to avoid an opponent blocking the track. It's a big problem if Polyphony intend on providing fair races for the FIA championships.

Here is a video clip of what happened during my first Manufacturers cup race. I am driving the Toyota ahead, and the Alfa 4C (in chasecam) is being driven by an opponent behind. The Alfa driver came from too far back to overtake on the chicane... It was never going to work, and I didn't exactly see him until he ran into the side of me. The first bump actually gave me (in the Toyota) an instant 10-second time penalty. The Alfa driver on the other hand just sped off into the distance without any penalties at all... It was super annoying.



By creating this thread, I'm hoping we can show Polyphony the current weaknesses of the penalty system so that it can be revised and tweaked for future updates.

If you have any videos with penalties which have baffled you, please post them here! 👍

Well I’ll agree that wasn’t much contact for a penalty but I can also say by the strict definition of the rules you did the wrong thing.

Firstly, please get away from the idea that the guy behind has no rights to track space.

Racing rules are clear - if a driver has any part of their car along side - even 1cm of front bumper - they must be given a car’s width of space.

In your example the Alfa was overlapping your rear tires - he is entitled to space at that point which you failed to give. Then, you tapped him again going to the exit of the 2 part of the chicane.

So yes, a strict deifnition of the rules would say you were at fault. However, I concede that contact this light in a closed wheeler would really be considered a racing incident and not penalised. Either way the penalty doesn’t seem to have affected your race so no worries.

 

[jesQuick]

Well I’ll agree that wasn’t much contact for a penalty but I can also say by the strict definition of the rules you did the wrong thing.

Firstly, please get away from the idea that the guy behind has no rights to track space.

Racing rules are clear - if a driver has any part of their car along side - even 1cm of front bumper - they must be given a car’s width of space.

In your example the Alfa was overlapping your rear tires - he is entitled to space at that point which you failed to give. Then, you tapped him again going to the exit of the 2 part of the chicane.

So yes, a strict deifnition of the rules would say you were at fault. However, I concede that contact this light in a closed wheeler would really be considered a racing incident and not penalised. Either way the penalty doesn’t seem to have affected your race so no worries.

You could be right, But maybe PD should make an effort (any effort really) to properly explain the race rules - it could be me but I haven't seen anything besides the two sportsmanship videos, which are just fluff, at best...

 

[Spade13]

Does the SR System have flaws? Yes. Is it a terrible system? No.

I've come to realize that Polyphony expects a very particular style of driving. If you adhere to this style of driving then your SR rating will increase. If you don't then it will decrease. It's far more complex than simply driving clean. Here's what I've learned so far.

• If you brake late and rear end somebody then you will get penalized (obviously)
• If you brake too early or continue braking past the intended braking zones, and somebody rear ends you, then YOU will get penalized.
  
• If you're not driving clean and neat and make contact with another driver, then you will get penalized.
• If you get hit mid-corner and try to steer back in so you don't fall off course, and hit the other driver, then you will get penalized. (OP's case is an example)
• If an opponent is intending to pass and makes contact with you, and you didn't give them enough space, then you will get penalized. This one's tricky. If you're driving on the outside line, and somebody is behind you taking the inside line, then you must maintain the outside line, and give the other driver space. If you try to shoot for the apex in that situation, and the other driver hits you, then you'll get penalized. Vice versa, if you're taking the inside line, and somebody near you is taking the outside lane. You must continue maintaining the inside lane, or if otherwise you hit the other driver, then you'll get penalized. Here is a video showing this point ()
  It may seem at first glance that the driver is rammed off and unfairly penalized. But take a closer look at the radar. The opposing driver was taking the inside line, and instead of maintaining the outside line as he was, the driver decides to go for the apex, and runs into the other driver. Thus he got penalized.

These are what I've noticed so far. I think Polyphony should have been more clear on what it considers "clean" driving as opposed to unsportsmanlike driving. I also agree that the penalty system needs to be reformed. Some penalties are unfair and overly penalized. For example, I don't think the OP should have been penalized an entire 10 seconds. Although GT Sport will penalize drivers if they hit an opposing driver when swerving back in their lane, the fact of the matter is the other driver was the one that was truly at fault. I also think the fact that time penalties can be grazed off over the course of a lap without being properly served is kinda BS. I'm hoping Polyphony will tweak and perfect the system in the near future. It's a good system, but it just needs some minor changes.

 

[RotorHed]

What you’ve described isn’t PD’s version of clean racing - those are FIA rules being applied.

 

[timekiller001]

First one was on today's GR.3 Oval race. Despite whoever you might think was in the wrong here, 10 seconds was way too much. I dont think I was in the wrong, and sometimes the following driver has to show some responsibility and lift from time to time.



This next one was in today's GR.4 Nurburgring race. Me and this guy go through the hairpin side by side and emerge side by side heading to the Schumacher esses. Normally in the Porsche I can make this turn full throttle easily, but with him on my outside I knew I had to lift to give him room on exit because my shallow entry was going to push me wide into him. So I lifted in the turn and stayed to the inside to give him room.

He pushed too hard, lost control and body slammed me off the track. Not a dirty move, but certainly one worthy of a penalty. Did he get one? No. Second was right on his tail after the incident and he won the race by half a second. No 10 second penalty for this, but the above video is a 10 second penalty?

In both of your videos it's very hard too see where exactly everyone was. I highly recommend to switch the HUD to the radar, which can help you a lot in sitations like these to avoid the crashes.

 

[FerrellJ]

The biggest problem I've had with the online racing so far is the penalty system, which I find is way too harsh at times.

Biggest problem I've had is with the penalty system too but it's due to drivers serving their penalties on the racing line. I saw at least two people doing it last night during the Nation's Cup. If you're going through a hairpin onto a long straight and you have cars behind you, either race them through the turn or keep to the outside and serve your penalty. Don't just hold up traffic.

The penalty durations themselves can be a bit extreme sometimes and, considering how difficult it apparently is for some to properly serve it, I'd like to see the system limited mostly to cut corners. Unless the shoulder of the track is paved (like Interlagos), you generally don't gain any time from driving off the racing surface like that- it's usually due to a mistake that has already cost you time.

In real life racing series, you never see calls like that. Even cut corners are usually forgiven if it's a one time thing. Just pop up a warning unless the cut is really drastic.

 

[RotorHed]

Biggest problem I've had is with the penalty system too but it's due to drivers serving their penalties on the racing line. I saw at least two people doing it last night during the Nation's Cup. If you're going through a hairpin onto a long straight and you have cars behind you, either race them through the turn or keep to the outside and serve your penalty. Don't just hold up traffic.

The penalty durations themselves can be a bit extreme sometimes and, considering how difficult it apparently is for some to properly serve it, I'd like to see the system limited mostly to cut corners. Unless the shoulder of the track is paved (like Interlagos), you generally don't gain any time from driving off the racing surface like that- it's usually due to a mistake that has already cost you time.

In real life racing series, you never see calls like that. Even cut corners are usually forgiven if it's a one time thing. Just pop up a warning unless the cut is really drastic.

Maybe I’m being paranoid but I think some people are deliberately serving their pens at points on the track that make it difficult to pass.

However, I think that if people with a penalty are hit in such a situation, they take an additional penalty - after all they’re effectively brake checking in this scenario.

 

[praiano63]

I am the only one that have taken a 9 seconds penalty during this race , nobody else did, not even a half second. Something really wrong in the penalties system.

 

[PorscheHD]

Iam hoping they will tweak it a bit because i lose my S to fast to people who are driving in my back.....

 

[RotorHed]

I am the only one that have taken a 9 seconds penalty during this race , nobody else did, not even a half second. Something really wrong in the penalties system.

The guy behind you got alongside and to the apex and you forced him into the grass. He lost control and hit you.

Your fault this time and the penalty system is correct in that case...

 

[Johnnypenso]

I am the only one that have taken a 9 seconds penalty during this race , nobody else did, not even a half second. Something really wrong in the penalties system.

It's not easy to tell from the replay but it looks like you had someone on your inside and you just moved over and pushed them onto the grass. I'd have to see it from their perspective though.

Edit: Tree'd

 

[UnkaD]

I like when you spin to the inside of a corner, come to a complete stop, then crawl back onto the track to be greeted by a time penalty for cutting.

 

[shardlojik]

Today I was trying to rebuild by SR by running in the open races round the oval. Fortunately I seem to be pretty rubbish at the one make round there, so I was at the back with the aim of staying out of trouble. Mostly I did.

However in one race I was trying to mind my own business, running fairly high coming out of a bend, so lots of room beneath me. So of course I get hit by another car coming in fast, luckilly I didn't get a penalty, but I did get a -SR. As it was a 7 lap race, then that tap was enough to ensure my SR stayed neutral.

 

[dr_slump]

@RotorHed @Johnnypenso

There's no way he hit him that hard. To me it looks like lag.

EDIT: I see he hit the wall, but there was still space between praiano and the wall. Surely Praiano could've given more room, but at the same time it was an over-motivated move by the other guy.

 

[R3V]

I got a 20s penalty for being rear ended by a lapped car today at blue moon.