The real car count in Gran Turismo 6

[Thomas__633]

So the lights are different, but so are a great many other things because the 2013 model depicted above isn't the '13 model available in the game--in fact, the '13 model available in the game isn't even an actual production model at all. You should know this, you repeated what I said to this effect in another thread nearly four hours after I said it:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/differences-between-veyrons.330253/

I was pointing out the lights and because the '13 model doesn't exist (how did they scan it?) that was the best I could do. But I achieved my point, which was to point out they weren't duplicates.

 

[Conza]

Ok, well there's questionable things regarding the two Veyrons, it boils down to;

We have 1 premium car, with the seemingly newer lights, and a hard roof, which doesn't appear to be real, also, 1 standard car with the earlier lights, which is real but not premium.

We should unduplicate, the car which is identical other than headlights, because we want two Veyrons representing both headlights... It's an otherwise identical car? One isn't even real.

I confirm your images of multiple headlights on the Veyron... Still doesn't make sense, to me, to keep both, but I will unduplicate it because multiple people have called for it.

 

[Thomas__633]

Also for your info I think the '09 is a premium now.

 

[Snakebitten]

Ok, several good points, I won't quote everyone, but to summarize.


@Snakebitten Yes, completely right, I've left SRT out. I wonder if I've missed other manufacturers? I'll go through and compare again to Kudos.

UPDATE: I had missed several manufacturers, I had gone through kudos with the number system, Volvo is number 100, but then others come into it, Abarth is 101, DeltaWing is 102, ect, so hopefully I have them all now, going through the list manually to confirm.

RE: the Viper situation, any duplicates I could see are likely Vipers... '99 vs '02 GTS seems like an obvious duplicate, keep the '02 as its premium and newer. I'd almost remove the launch edition '13, but I think its just similar enough to warrant uniqueness.

with regards to #51 vs. #91, I would've initially marked these as duplicates - livery of one or the other. Same year, spec, ect, what makes each unique?

Conza the #51 and #91 both have historical significance. If memory serves one won Daytona outright and both have won Le Mans. So they are both legitimate cars with enough difference to warrant them both existing imho.

I agree on the street Viper however. No need for the 99's model since its a standard. Although the 99' and 02 Vuipers do have some differences. The '99 had forged pistons and did not have ABS whereas the '02 had hyperutetic pistons and did have ABS which made it a little faster than previous years. All PD had to do was model the '99 off of the premium '02 but they are lazy lol.

 

[Grandea GTR]

Also for your info I think the '09 is a premium now.

I can confirm that both Veyrons are premium.

 

[Oner]

Not to pile on but a vehicle that might look the same but has a completely different drive train I believe should be subject to it's own classification & separation ~

Daihatsu STORIA CX 2WD '98 - 1 Duplicate (J)
Daihatsu STORIA CX 4WD '98 - 1 Duplicate (J)

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Hmmm, not bad; out of all of the duplicates, there's still over 1,000 cars. Though, that proves one thing; Polyphony Digital's method to boost their car count is really unnecessary.

 

[DaBomm4]

One thing to take into account is almost all Opel/Vauxhall cars are identical models (except one, the Calibra), just a name badge change, similar to the Toyota Vitz/Yaris.

 

[Conza]

Conza the #51 and #91 both have historical significance. If memory serves one won Daytona outright and both have won Le Mans. So they are both legitimate cars with enough difference to warrant them both existing imho.

I agree on the street Viper however. No need for the 99's model since its a standard. Although the 99' and 02 Vuipers do have some differences. The '99 had forged pistons and did not have ABS whereas the '02 had hyperutetic pistons and did have ABS which made it a little faster than previous years. All PD had to do was model the '99 off of the premium '02 but they are lazy lol.

Are #51 and #91 mechanically the same? If so, I would say they warrant their own livery, is there any evidence to suggest they aren't the same car underneath?

I'd like to know where you found out that information about the Viper though, I read that the '99 and '02 models were the same.

 

[JR98]

I was pointing out the lights and because the '13 model doesn't exist (how did they scan it?) that was the best I could do. But I achieved my point, which was to point out they weren't duplicates.

The '09 Veyron is the base for the '09 and '13. The standard Veyron finished production before the minor facelift ('13 edition) and then there was just the special edition versions, starting with the Grand Sport and Super Sport.

 

[DaBomm4]

I'd like to know where you found out that information about the Viper though, I read that the '99 and '02 models were the same.

"In 2000, the Viper would no longer have forged pistons. For some enthusiasts of the second generation Viper, this is a less desirable model year since it doesn’t have a forged motor like the 96-99 GTS models and does not have ABS like the 2001-2002 models."

Straight from Wikipedia.

 

[Tunerguy21]

I think the problem is not duplicates or copies of models or whatever, but rather how they're handled in game. I've had an idea about how to properly do it for a while so if you all don't mind I'll share.

For example, we'll use the age-old duplicate offender: the Skyline.

So, you enter the dealership. You choose Nissan. It shows the different models available ordered by year. Say you want an R34. You scroll through the models till you reach the first model year of R34 ('99) and it states a year range of '99-'02). You click on it and it brings up a list (like a drop-down box) of the different trims available ordered by year. You select the trim you want and that's when it brings you to the screen where it shows you the specific car you want and from there you can do the regular stuff for that screen. Now, at each screen there's a count of the models in that particular screen. For example, when you highlight Nissan it tells you the count of the individual models (KPGC10, KPGC110, R30-R35, etc). Then when you highlight R34 it shows the count of the different trims individual trims, however many there are. The official car count is not effected by the separate trims-only by the models when you first enter Nissan (or <insert brand here>)-but if you do want to build specificly a '00 V-Spec II N1, you can still do that.

Ok, that was way more long-winded than I expected and probably didn't make any sense, but I hope I at least got my point across to someone.

 

[TexRex]

I think the problem is not duplicates or copies of models or whatever, but rather how they're handled in game.

👍

As far as I'm concerned, their presence is absolutely fine. It's the fact that they're presented as 35 different cars when most folk can't really see past the name and think it's only really 1, duplicated many times over. And then, following that, the fact that of the 35, there's only actually 13 different ones - the other 22 are different in name only - and really people can only see a clear difference between four of them (NA, NB, NC, touring car).

Present them as four - or eight to take account of engines and bodies as I listed above (or six - lump the NC Coupe in with the NC Roadster) - but give us thirteen and it's fine. Hell, even just rename the twenty-two to US and EU special edition trims (actually, leave the '89 as it is - that's no problem) with no other difference and give us all 35 presented as four and no-one would have a problem.

 

[Snakebitten]

Are #51 and #91 mechanically the same? If so, I would say they warrant their own livery, is there any evidence to suggest they aren't the same car underneath?

I'd like to know where you found out that information about the Viper though, I read that the '99 and '02 models were the same.

Well I believe one has the Le Mans tune and the other may have the Daytona tune as the #91 was always faster than the #51 which makes sense as Le Mans is the faster of the two tracks. So while both are technically mechanically similar they are different. Also both cars campaigned together so they are separate models in real life and were driven by different drivers like Olivier Baretta and Justin Bell respectively. Those were the two main drivers for each car though they shared driving duty with two other drivers respectively.

Not sure if that is enough of a difference for you but as an avid Le Mans fan from since the 80's on I love that both are represented as different models in game to reflect reality.

As for the info on the '99 vs '02 I've been around Viper forums a long time so that's a fact about the differences between the two years. Engine-wise the 96 - 99 were the best or forced induction because of the forged internals. Those cars could be boosted safely on stock block to 850 - 900hp before you had to build it. The '02 couldn't do this as per the hypereutectic pistons were not as strong as the forged internals in the earlier years. ABS came on the 02 that's in the game. So there is a mechanical difference between both years though the body is the same.

 

[Rednose58]

Then there is the Vauxhaul / Opel duplicates or the Holden / Pontiac and Acura / Honda and maybe the AC Cobra and the Shelby Cobra?

Very interesting subject and as we can see very different opinions. Thanks for starting this one - I'm interested in seeing a final list.... Maybe intead of "Duplicates", call it "Near Duplicates" to take care of small differences like ±1PP or HP or a small difference in stock suspension setting or gear ratios, etc.

 

[TexRex]

Then there is the Vauxhaul / Opel duplicates or the Holden / Pontiac and Acura / Honda and maybe the AC Cobra and the Shelby Cobra?

I really don't think there should be any mucking about with the shared platforms in the game, as there may be Brits who'd rather drive the VX220 than the Speedster and Germans who'd prefer the opposite--the same goes for the other examples cited.

Off-topic: What on Earth is that avatar?

 

[Rednose58]

I really don't think there should be any mucking about with the shared platforms in the game, as there may be Brits who'd rather drive the VX220 than the Speedster and Germans who'd prefer the opposite--the same goes for the other examples cited.

Off-topic: What on Earth is that avatar?

It's a supercar.......

 

[TexRex]

It's a supercar.......
View attachment 394823

 

[cjr3559]

The AC 427 S/C and Shelby Cobra are definitely not duplicates other than they look similar on the surface.

 

[georgetigra]

every car on GT is Unique .....
make a conversation with some of the hardcore players here and will tell the same!
example the jp with the eu or us type of car is different especially on stock...
we like GT to become more hardcore and not more arcade....
in the other games we have for example one GTR R34 how can be this
when there is eu us and jp type of that car when is different on handling ???

 

[JR98]

I'm pretty sure the Honda S2000 (EU) '00 is no different IN ANY WAY from the Honda S2000 '00...

 

[Nexus]

we like GT to become more hardcore and not more arcade....

How would removing/reducing duplicates make GT more arcade?
I get frustrated whenever I go to buy a car in GT6 and see multiple pages of the same model.

 

[Tornado]

every car on GT is Unique .....

Nope.

make a conversation with some of the hardcore players here and will tell the same!

They would be wrong too.

example the jp with the eu or us type of car is different especially on stock...

Except when it's not, or when one is fictional, or when PD didn't bother.

we like GT to become more hardcore and not more arcade....

Good. They can start by removing the fictional duplicate cars.

 

[Polsixe]

There are three Red Bull X2010 that are same except for paint , so minus two more.

 

[Polsixe]

Nissan NISMO GT3 Nissan GT Academy Team RJN '13
Nissan GT-R NISMO GT3 '13
Nissan GT-R NISMO GT3 Base Model '13
Nissan GT-R NISMO GT3 N24 Schulze Motorsport '13

These are all the same car also. Minus three.

 

[Polsixe]

.........................................................HP weight Torque
Honda S2000 Type V '03 ......246 1270 218
Honda S2000 Type V (EU) '01 ......246 1260 218
Honda S2000 Type V (US) '01 ......246 1260 218
Honda S2000 Type V '01 ......246 1260 218
Honda S2000 Type V (EU) '00 .......246 1260 218
Honda S2000 Type V (US) '00 .......246 1260 218
Honda S2000 Type V '00 .......246 1260 218
Honda S2000 (EU) '01 ...... 246 1240 218
Honda S2000 (US) '01 .......246 1240 218
Honda S2000 '01 ........246 1240 218
Honda S2000 (EU) '99 ........ 246 1240 218
Honda S2000 (US) '99 ........ 246 1240 218
Honda S2000 '99 ........246 1240 218

These are all virtually the same.

 

[nascarfan1400]

The NASCAR Cars are not duplicates. They are also Not called "NASCARs".

The Super GTs arent duplicates either. If you argue they have the same specs than the 2010, 2011, and 2013 NASCAR cars all have different specs per year. So Yeah.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The NASCAR Cars are not duplicates. They are also Not called "NASCARs".

The Super GTs arent duplicates either. If you argue they have the same specs than the 2010, 2011, and 2013 NASCAR cars all have different specs per year. So Yeah.

I think he's saying that a GT or Nascar car that is identical but with a different livery is a duplicate, not different years of the same car. ie the 2010 Ford Nascar cars are duplicates of each other.

 

[nascarfan1400]

I think he's saying that a GT or Nascar car that is identical but with a different livery is a duplicate, not different years of the same car. ie the 2010 Ford Nascar cars are duplicates of each other.

I think OP Put all 3 years together.

 

[JR98]

The NASCAR Cars are not duplicates. They are also Not called "NASCARs".

The Super GTs arent duplicates either. If you argue they have the same specs than the 2010, 2011, and 2013 NASCAR cars all have different specs per year. So Yeah.

In my eyes the different liveries are duplicates but each make/year should be counted as an actual car...