The reason why cars should be detuneable is...

[Darkpitiless]

That would be realistic, well real life cars does that. And most importantly im sure that no one here has a stock car as an everyday drive GT5 car. It's because we can't do A-Spec, B-Spec with stock cars.

The thing is, yesterday i bought another Italia just because i could not detune my first Italia for a time trial @ the Top Gear Test track which is seriously annoying. Buying new cars just for doing time trials are just out of this world stupidness.

I mean we don't even have online leaderboards, yet we can't enjoy time trials for local use?





Can we say ability to fully detune cars in the next upcoming updates?

 

[gee_sp0t]

What do you mean you couldn't detune it? If you go into tuning options for the car, you can remove option parts and reinstall stock parts.

 

[Spagetti69]

A more pressing factor is, who knows what events, limitation PD plan on implementing in future patches.
It's not nice having 3 zondas just to cover the bases.

 

[Darkpitiless]

What do you mean you couldn't detune it? If you go into tuning options for the car, you can remove option parts and reinstall stock parts.

You can't remove ECU, and you can't undo modifications done to the engine.

 

[uk86ze]

What do you mean you couldn't detune it? If you go into tuning options for the car, you can remove option parts and reinstall stock parts.

There are somethings that you cant detune/modify like weight and the 3 stages of engine tuning.

 

[Exorcet]

PD treats online like a sideshow, it's a bit ridiculous.

It should be like this:

No permanent tunes, everything should be removable.

Ability to detune cars. (Weight, power, aero, etc)

No maintenance/fluctuating horsepower, it's just a nuisance.

All tuning parts should be available online, even if you didn't buy them. At the very least, tires need to be this way,

PERFORMANCE POINTS

Car class rules (Super GT, ALMS GT1, etc)

Aero/suspension, drivetrain, etc rules [wings allowed, no wings, etc]

All cars unlocked

If PD won't do the above for whatever reason, then garage sharing. When I tried to use the option to limit car choice to those from the garage, I thought it would make it so that people would only be able to use car I select from my garage, but it was from the recommended list, which makes it useless. Besides limiting the cars to what I have in my garage, I should also let people be able to drive my cars even if they don't have them.

I'm sure there is more to list.

 

[Darkpitiless]

PD treats online like a sideshow, it's a bit ridiculous.

It should be like this:

No permanent tunes, everything should be removable.

Ability to detune cars. (Weight, power, aero, etc)

No maintenance/fluctuating horsepower, it's just a nuisance.

All tuning parts should be available online, even if you didn't buy them. At the very least, tires need to be this way,

PERFORMANCE POINTS

Car class rules (Super GT, ALMS GT1, etc)

Aero/suspension, drivetrain, etc rules [wings allowed, no wings, etc]

All cars unlocked

If PD won't do the above for whatever reason, then garage sharing. When I tried to use the option to limit car choice to those from the garage, I thought it would make it so that people would only be able to use car I select from my garage, but it was from the recommended list, which makes it useless. Besides limiting the cars to what I have in my garage, I should also let people be able to drive my cars even if they don't have them.

I'm sure there is more to list.

Not surprised you're making huge sense right there. We all have more sense than PD. It's like we are getting monopulated by this game.

 

[Bozothenutter]

weight reduction, cannot be undone on real cars.
engine upgrade=head job cannot be undone on real cars.
ecu should be removable, although how well would a modified car run without a custom ecu (would like the ability to mess with the ECU though)

 

[Exorcet]

weight reduction, cannot be undone on real cars.
engine upgrade=head job cannot be undone on real cars.

You can do anything to a real car.

Yes, even rip out the rollcage and reinstall the leather interior. Now, most people don't do that. However, weight ballasts are very common (and were in GT4).

 

[ItsHim]

That would be realistic, well real life cars does that. And most importantly im sure that no one here has a stock car as an everyday drive GT5 car. It's because we can't do A-Spec, B-Spec with stock cars.

Can we say ability to detune cars in the next upcoming updates?

I, like quite a few others, enjoy running stock cars a lot in GT5. And I have completed all races bar one or two b-specs with stock cars (save a tranny change where desperately needed).

Major upgrades (engine, body) shouldn't be removeable imo but permanent. Also, I, like many others, collect cars and I always keep a stock one anyway.

 

[Spagetti69]

So if I buy a new engine, I have to throw the old one away.

 

[millross]

It's like we are getting monopulated by this game.

Eh?

Agree that being unable to "de-tune" a car, is bizarre and stupid. However, it's not "that" debilitating to the overall experience, is it?

 

[Darkpitiless]

weight reduction, cannot be undone on real cars.
engine upgrade=head job cannot be undone on real cars.
ecu should be removable, although how well would a modified car run without a custom ecu (would like the ability to mess with the ECU though)

My friend installed a pulley to his motor. And he retained the stock pulley later. Don't see what the problem is.

The only modification that can't be endone in a real car is stroking the engine. And the option of stroking the engine is not there in GT5.

 

[Mike712]

weight reduction, cannot be undone on real cars.(would like the ability to mess with the ECU though)

Ever heard of ballast? It's used allot in real motor racing

 

[Exorcet]

I, like quite a few others, enjoy running stock cars a lot in GT5. And I have completed all races bar one or two b-specs with stock cars (save a tranny change where desperately needed).

Major upgrades (engine, body) shouldn't be removeable imo but permanent. Also, I, like many others, collect cars and I always keep a stock one anyway.

I do all of that too, though I only do the latter [bold] because of non removable tunes. There is no point to having them. They just make me waste money buying duplicate cars when I only need one.

Also, if you enjoy using stock cars, wouldn't you like to be able to make your cars stock if you happen to tune them? I like competitive racing, so for the majority of races online, I need to upgrade the cars. I buy every single tuning part that can be removed. Then I buy various numbers of clones of the same car and install the non removables in different mixes. It's a waste of time that results from a poor modification set up system.

If you think some modifications should be permanent offline, fine [though I still don't see why], but don't limit online to offline's rules.

 

[Spagetti69]

Another odd thing is the fact whatever you do Ie rigidity improvement, engine upgrades even wheel swap doesn't effect your weight at all.

 

[Darkpitiless]

Eh?

Agree that being unable to "de-tune" a car, is bizarre and stupid. However, it's not "that" debilitating to the overall experience, is it?

Yes it is. Freedom isn't in the game. Freedom = overal experience. Being ruled by PD's fantasy rules is really annoying. Why don't take you're favorite car to the Top Gear test track and compare you're time with the real time?

 

[amar212]

That would be realistic, well real life cars does that.

Can we say ability to fully detune cars in the next upcoming updates?

It should be like this:

No permanent tunes, everything should be removable.

Ability to detune cars. (Weight, power, aero, etc)

No maintenance/fluctuating horsepower, it's just a nuisance.

Basically, you propose the following:

1. Get rid of the exceptional and unique part of Gran Turismo series-philosophy which made GT series different than the all-genre: car maintenance

2. Structure everything to be unlocked/available

3. Remove any obstacles that demand effort from the player in fields of purchasing, installing and caring for the actually owned vehicle

So, GT should become an bastard of NFS:Shift (all tuning parts/processes fully detunable, all can be sold for the buying price, you never loose funds) and Forza (everything unlocked from the start).

Wrong.

Although I fully agree that game needs introduction of ballast since 1997, for various purposes.

 

[ItsHim]

If you think some modifications should be permanent offline, fine [though I still don't see why], but don't limit online to offline's rules.

Im FM2 I always kept a bunch of modified cars with different tunes for specific lobbies and/or tracks.

I had a couple of Minis, Astras, Mugens, etc, all built either to spec or to suite the track. No single car/tune/build suits every purpose, I remember having three MR2s, one for speed, one for grip and one for Mugello/Silverstone. And that was only for B-Class

So, especially without the ability to save different setups and for ease of use in competitive online racing, duplicate cars are rather handy in my view. But it's still early days and let's find out what updates PD throws at us.

 

[Darkpitiless]

Basically, you propose the following:

1. Get rid of the exceptional and unique part of Gran Turismo series-philosophy which made GT series different than the all-genre: car maintenance

2. Structure everything to be unlocked/available

3. Remove any obstacles that demand effort from the player in fields of purchasing, installing and caring for the actually owned vehicle

So, GT should become an bastard of NFS:Shift (all tuning parts/processes fully detunable, all can be sold for the buying price, you never loose funds) and Forza (everything unlocked from the start).

Wrong.

Although I fully agree that game needs introduction of ballast since 1997, for various purposes.

Well isn't that why we a over a 1000 cars? I mean how much effort does it need to be put in a 1000 cars by the players? It would take forever. All obstacles should be removed. This is not a 100 cars game.

 

[Exorcet]

Basically, you propose the following:

1. Get rid of the exceptional and unique part of Gran Turismo series-philosophy which made GT series different than the all-genre: car maintenance

Physics, 500+ cars, great online racing. There's unique and exceptional. I don't see much else in GT that way, but to each their own. Also, GT1/2 did fine without maintenance, and they probably felt more unique than anything in their own time.

2. Structure everything to be unlocked/available

Like I've been saying for years now, I can have my game unlocked, and you can still have yours locked. It's not mutually exclusive.

3. Remove any obstacles that demand effort from the player in fields of purchasing, installing and caring for the actually owned vehicle

It's not effort, it's hindrance. I'd like to drive. Instead, I'm running around trading, buying, and praying for [praying for used ones] cars. It's taking away from my driving time.

I also find it difficult to care about polygons and 0010010110010110101's as if they were real cars. In fact, I can't do it. Also, I'm sure going into GT Auto, waiting for it to load, and pressing X a few times equates to maintaining a real car. I'll just say, we don't press X when we strip and rebuild our FSAE car.

So, GT should become an bastard of NFS:Shift (all tuning parts/processes fully detunable, all can be sold for the buying price, you never loose funds) and Forza (everything unlocked from the start).

It's about time GT takes good ideas from other brands, maybe they would be able to rival their ground braking introduction in 97.

Wrong.

Yes you are.

Although I fully agree that game needs introduction of ballast since 1997, for various purposes.

Me too.







EDIT


As a matter of fact, if GT were to outright and shamelessly copy Forza's customization system, it would be one of the greatest moves they could make.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

That would be realistic, well real life cars does that. And most importantly im sure that no one here has a stock car as an everyday drive GT5 car. It's because we can't do A-Spec, B-Spec with stock cars.

The thing is, yesterday i bought another Italia just because i could not detune my first Italia for a time trial @ the Top Gear Test track which is seriously annoying. Buying new cars just for doing time trials are just out of this world stupidness.

First of all adding and removing parts is not tuning if is modifing/upgraging. Tuning is done by changing settings of the parts installed.

Second IRL you do not undo some of these things either. If you bore your block you can not unbore it. When you port and polish you do not undo it. You would need to buy a new engine to undo these things.

When you rip out the sound proofing, door panels seats and such you do not just put them all back in any time you wish. When you put in a roll cage it is there to stay.

So IRL when you do some of these mods just like in the game the undo is to buy another car.


On another note if they copied Forza 3 upgrade system I would be seriously disappointed in them. Forza 3 ruined the game with all the AWD swaps and yet left them out of several manufacturers cars. They also let you put the roll cage in and out at will which is in real life not possible. Better to be realistic. Though it would be nice to be able to purchase a new engine for a car in GT especially a crate engine that could upgrade the car or an engine from a different car so long as they keep it within reason and only let you put parts on the car that are realisticly possible IRL.


Edit: As for time trails I think Forza had the right idea here in that they provide you with the car for the time trial. Then again time trails do not interest me much. I would much rather see the ability to post times in custom built and tuned cars.

 

[birksy82]

First of all adding and removing parts is not tuning if is modifing/upgraging. Tuning is done by changing settings of the parts installed.

Second IRL you do not undo some of these things either. If you bore your block you can not unbore it. When you port and polish you do not undo it. You would need to buy a new engine to undo these things.

When you rip out the sound proofing, door panels seats and such you do not just put them all back in any time you wish. When you put in a roll cage it is there to stay.

So IRL when you do some of these mods just like in the game the undo is to buy another car.

+1 👍 This thread is what i would call scraping the barrel to find complaints about the game. Just to clear it up all of the other GT's had unremovable modifications too why would this one be any different?

EDIT: As far as i know it's only weight reduction and engine mods that cannot be removed and rightfully so. It even warns you before installation of this. You can put the stock ECU back in at anytime you want as well as gearbox's , propshaft's , exhaust's etc.

 

[Exorcet]

all of the other GT's had unremovable modifications too why would this one be any different?

All the other GT's had 6 cars, worse graphics, less realistic physics. So we should all be satisfied because it's always been that way, and there is no possible way to make things better since they were always that way.

 

[birksy82]

All the other GT's had 6 cars, worse graphics, less realistic physics. So we should all be satisfied because it's always been that way, and there is no possible way to make things better since they were always that way.

Even if PD made this possible in the next update which they won't you and others still wouldn't be satisfied. Iv got nothing more to say on this matter.

 

[Exorcet]

Even if PD made this possible in the next update which they won't you and others still wouldn't be satisfied. Iv got nothing more to say on this matter.

The above is a complete cop-out and misses the point. Not to mention, it's profiling.

And if they won't do it, I'll just have to keep telling them to.

 

[amar212]

Physics, 500+ cars, great online racing. There's unique and exceptional. I don't see much else in GT that way, but to each their own. Also, GT1/2 did fine without maintenance, and they probably felt more unique than anything in their own time.

You probably do not remember, but "ownership/maintenance" RPG-esque philosophy is here since the first game.

GT1 had "Car Wash", first (and last, no other driving game never took such step in designing the approach to career mode) introduction of actual care for your virtually-owned vehicle in the series

GT2 had Car Wash too. In both (and in later games, up to GT5 today), Car Wash was eliminating the build up of "dust" on your car (visually represented by "matting" since GT1) which is downgrading aerodynamical-performance of the vehicle up to 7-10%. Washing the car brings back aerodynamic-performance to 100%.

GT3 introduced Oil Change and real-time monitoring of mileage of particular car. By using a particular vehicle, motor wears-out and oil "darkens". Initial changing of oil (on new vehicles in GT3, Used Cars of GT1 were re-introduced in series in GT4) boosts HP of the powerblock up to 8% and degrades it to factory-spec through initial 2000 km. After some time HP decreases with usage (oil gets darker) and in order to have desired spec you need to often change the oil on used vehicle. After some period your HP would decrease to level of -12/-15% of "factory-spec" (engine would wear out) and you couldn't bring it back.

GT4 expanded the philosophy even further with introduction of Chassis Rigidity Refresh where overall rigidity of the chassis was influenced by overall mileage (as powerblock and oil) and your actual way of driving. If you'd crash a lot car would loose rigidity much faster, prompting the Chassis Rigidity Refresh procedure. You could "delay/prolong" the procedure with installing additional roll-cage (Increase Chassis Rigidity procedure).

For Used Cars in GT4 you needed to change the oil and wash them in order to get both aerodinamyc and powerblock specifications to maxx, while cars with big-mileages asked for Chassis Rigidity Refresh in order to have their original handling-characteristics.

GT5 pushes overall "ownership/maintenance" philosophy even further, with combining all above with introduction of Engine Overhaul Process and constant real-time monitoring of overall usage of the vehicle.

Also notice that the engine of particular vehicle in GT5 will wear-out sooner/faster if you over-rev it, drive aggressively and shift in red-area.

All described may be unknown to you, but it is by far the most unique and original aspect of the Gran Turismo series and it makes it different than all other games in genre.

I can understand that need to invest effort and actual care for your vehicle may be too much for your personal taste, but it is the way GT games are designed from 1997.

Removing "ownership/maintenance" philosophy from GT series would make it "just another driving game".

I have strong hopes it will be the opposite and that upcoming games in series will actually make it more complex, demanding and expand it with possibilities of the new hardware.

Fact that no other racing-game developer NEVER even tried to introduce such features (besides basic mileage-counter without any repercussions to the vehicle-overall-state) speaks enough of how really special GT series is in last 13 years.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

+1 👍 This thread is what i would call scraping the barrel to find complaints about the game. Just to clear it up all of the other GT's had unremovable modifications too why would this one be any different?

EDIT: As far as i know it's only weight reduction and engine mods that cannot be removed and rightfully so. It even warns you before installation of this. You can put the stock ECU back in at anytime you want as well as gearbox's , propshaft's , exhaust's etc.

That is correct. You can also change the air filters, intakes, turbos and such. Very realistic IMO no need to change it.

Edit: btw I totally agree with the post above by Amar212

 

[dunnett42]

Yep, you can't un-machine engine parts. But, you should be able to add ballast weight and be able to position it in order to make minimum weight regulations, IMO.

 

[Exorcet]

All described may be unknown to you, but it is by far the most unique and original aspect of the Gran Turismo series and it makes it different than all other games in genre.

Opinion.

Removing "ownership/maintenance" philosophy from GT series would make it "just another driving game".

Opinion.

I have strong hopes it will be the opposite and that upcoming games in series will actually make it more complex, demanding and expand it with possibilities of the new hardware.

And guess what, we can both be happy.

You probably do not remember, but "ownership/maintenance" RPG-esque philosophy is here since the first game...

Well, I honestly did forget about car wash. But it's as I said. I don't care. GT doesn't make it particularly exciting. And just because it was there before doesn't mean it should be here now.

I'm not here to keep the game the same. I want to make it better. It might invovle changing things.

I can understand that need to invest effort and actual care for your vehicle may be too much for your personal taste, but it is the way GT games are designed from 1997.

I understand that you're not focused on driving and racing. I can respect that. But when there is a way to satisfy both parties, and that way is not in use, something is wrong.

You should not have to deal with GT Mode. Let the people who want to have an RPG have it, then make a seperate mode for the racers. There. Everything is fine.

Online is for competitive racing. That is its purpose. It is something you can't find in GT Mode, partially because of hardware limitations, and partial because PD doesn't want to put the effort in. Online should help you find/create competitive racing. Just by taking PP out, that prospect becomes almost laughable. And PD left out more than PP.