The Sunday Cup...Lotus Club GT...Open 

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Was great last night! And yes the first corner is very fast on entry and on cold tires and a new car there will be problems :D. After just about everybody had gone I was thumping round with a 4:06 as the time. Maybe with some more practice and a proper set up a faster time can come; I through my standard set up at it and the car was on rails, with maybe a touch of understeer.
 
Scheduled practice session would be good Ade. Might see a few more guys on track and we could possibly fiddle with damage and penalties to find a good balance. Personally when I ran my own series I made sure to screen all the competitors carefully. They weren't allowed to turn up to a race until I had practiced with them and battled with them hard to make sure they knew all about close but very clean racing. As a result we were able to run with heavy damage and no penalties with a very occasional mistake here and there. Penalties are good if you don't trust that people will drive the track clean 100%, alternatively stewards are good too, though I dare say having to watch 16 replays at 2 hours long would leave a few things unnoticed. As always the first instance of any foul play should see anyone who saw it on track reporting it to the organiser. We run under the umbrella of The GTP OLR and if adhered to it makes better racing for everyone. I do my upmost to drive clean, trail braking early into braking zones so I don't run into people, taking an easy pass as opposed to a dive bomb, leaving room inside and out.. I try to be as fair and as clean as possible, and it kind of annoys me when people don't do the same.
 
GTP_ADE
... If I get time after F1 I will run a few more laps, and if anyone wants a more dedicated practice session, then I am open to suggestions for next weekend.
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Are you opening a room after F1? If so I'll drop by.

Concerning the no contact rules: I think they should be enforced a bit more. I know i do have the occasional rub or two myself and i don't mind the occasional love tap on me at all, but the turn 1 phenomenon is taking quite the overhand in races I participate lately. Luckily the morale at forfeiting gained positions through these incidents is quite prominent in our racing group.
 
Captain Roh
Scheduled practice session would be good Ade. Might see a few more guys on track and we could possibly fiddle with damage and penalties to find a good balance. Personally when I ran my own series I made sure to screen all the competitors carefully. They weren't allowed to turn up to a race until I had practiced with them and battled with them hard to make sure they knew all about close but very clean racing. As a result we were able to run with heavy damage and no penalties with a very occasional mistake here and there. Penalties are good if you don't trust that people will drive the track clean 100%, alternatively stewards are good too, though I dare say having to watch 16 replays at 2 hours long would leave a few things unnoticed. As always the first instance of any foul play should see anyone who saw it on track reporting it to the organiser. We run under the umbrella of The GTP OLR and if adhered to it makes better racing for everyone. I do my upmost to drive clean, trail braking early into braking zones so I don't run into people, taking an easy pass as opposed to a dive bomb, leaving room inside and out.. I try to be as fair and as clean as possible, and it kind of annoys me when people don't do the same.
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I get what your saying Capt, and it was your concorse group that made me get into racing online. I watched several of your races in your lobby, but didnt join as I wasnt at the required skill level. This is the 3rd season of Sunday Cup, and I am sure that all returning members will agree the racing is always as clean as a whistle. What I like about it is that there are drivers of all skill levels who take part. Most of the new members this season I have driven with in Core GT, and I know they are clean drivers. From the previous 2 seasons there were only a couple of instances which required the race steward (Omnius) to take a look at the replay and come to a decision. I know that all the racers here do their best to drive as cleanly as possible, and always give positions back if they feel they have taken them in an unfair manner. With everyones different styles of driving there is always going to be the element of unpredictability in races, and sometimes incidents will occur. In the practice last night we were all in a new car that none of us has raced yet. I ran a couple of laps when setting up the Lemans race to get a rough time frame, and last night my braking zones were totally different from before because of the draft. That is why its good to run these practice sessions, so that we learn these different traits before the race. In S1 and S2 we ran scheduled practice on the Sundays between races. This consisted of several short races at the next track on the calender with reverse grid. This made for very clean races as we all learnt the tracks with other drivers, and had ironed out any kinks before the race. As Le Sarthe is so long I think we will need additional practice to fully understand the car here. So I will try to get on after F1 if I have some time. Weeknights are a bit tricky for me to do anything, so next weekend I will be practicing hard.

Third Reign
Are you opening a room after F1? If so I'll drop by.

Concerning the no contact rules: I think they should be enforced a bit more. I know i do have the occasional rub or two myself and i don't mind the occasional love tap on me at all, but the turn 1 phenomenon is taking quite the overhand in races I participate lately. Luckily the morale at forfeiting gained positions through these incidents is quite prominent in our racing group.
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I hope to get on this evening after F1 and Roast Beef with all the trimmings, provided the kids havnt nicked the PC.
 
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One thing I noticed from the practice session last night from following another driver, is that corner cutting can take place but I'm not just talking about the obvious last chicane area. I was following a car and wondered why he was pulling away, and it was because I was keeping at least 2wheels on the track and 2 wheels on the kerb, but the person in front cut a few corners, only slightly, but enough to get a gap. The first was the 3rd gear right hander leading onto the first long flat out section, where four wheels were on the kerb and none on the track. This gave a clear advantage accelerating onto the long straight. How, for example will it be possible to police this in the race? There are other examples of where corners can be cut in such a manner, not fully, with 4 wheels over the kerbs and therefore enough to gain an advantage without it looking obvious.
 
jammyrex
One thing I noticed from the practice session last night from following another driver, is that corner cutting can take place but I'm not just talking about the obvious last chicane area. I was following a car and wondered why he was pulling away, and it was because I was keeping at least 2wheels on the track and 2 wheels on the kerb, but the person in front cut a few corners, only slightly, but enough to get a gap. The first was the 3rd gear right hander leading onto the first long flat out section, where four wheels were on the kerb and none on the track. This gave a clear advantage accelerating onto the long straight. How, for example will it be possible to police this in the race? There are other examples of where corners can be cut in such a manner, not fully, with 4 wheels over the kerbs and therefore enough to gain an advantage without it looking obvious.
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This is where the case for penalties comes in. It would be such a huge undertaking to steward this 2 hour race for every competitor in every corner.. It just won't happen. Thing is under the GTP OLR guidelines, two wheels off the track while maintaining two wheels on the curb is 'clean'. However GT's penalty system requires two wheels on the black top at all times.
 
jammyrex
One thing I noticed from the practice session last night from following another driver, is that corner cutting can take place but I'm not just talking about the obvious last chicane area. I was following a car and wondered why he was pulling away, and it was because I was keeping at least 2wheels on the track and 2 wheels on the kerb, but the person in front cut a few corners, only slightly, but enough to get a gap. The first was the 3rd gear right hander leading onto the first long flat out section, where four wheels were on the kerb and none on the track. This gave a clear advantage accelerating onto the long straight. How, for example will it be possible to police this in the race? There are other examples of where corners can be cut in such a manner, not fully, with 4 wheels over the kerbs and therefore enough to gain an advantage without it looking obvious.
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Captain Roh
This is where the case for penalties comes in. It would be such a huge undertaking to steward this 2 hour race for every competitor in every corner.. It just won't happen. Thing is under the GTP OLR guidelines, two wheels off the track while maintaining two wheels on the curb is 'clean'. However GT's penalty system requires two wheels on the black top at all times.
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I would have to trust everyones racing integrity for this special event. At the end of the day this race carries no championship points, so it will have no effect on next years season. That being said I would expect all racers to keep within what we regard as acceptable track usage. Therefore I would encourage all entrants to save their replays, and if any repeat short cuts are witnessed during the race then they can be decided on this thread. It has also come to my attention that there is also a way to make up time when pitting at Le Sarthe. GTP_Hasslemoff has informed me that you can go flat out into the pit, totally avoiding the pit lane and saving a huge chunk of time. This practice will also not be allowed during the race.

Here is Hasslemoffs message.

hasslemoff
A little tip, when entering the pits on this track you can go full throttle and cut the pit lane out, which in turns save a good chunk of time instead of braking and following the pit lane around.

I dont know if you know about it if not give it a try and then decide if you want to penalize for it or just let people do it but its a bit unfair for people who dont know about it and not many do.

Cheers

P.S you can do the same trick on montegi.
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I think that the bit in bold highlights the integrity of SC racers very well.



But like I said earlier. This is not a Championship race, its a Christmas special that I thought I would do as a stop gap between seasons. It gives Sunday Cuppers an opportunity to get together and have a race before we get under way next year. It will be long, it will be tough, but it will be fun.👍👍
 
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GTP_ADE
...This is the 3rd season of Sunday Cup, and I am sure that all returning members will agree the racing is always as clean as a whistle. What I like about it is that there are drivers of all skill levels who take part. Most of the new members this season I have driven with in Core GT, and I know they are clean drivers. From the previous 2 seasons there were only a couple of instances which required the race steward (Omnius) to take a look at the replay and come to a decision. I know that all the racers here do their best to drive as cleanly as possible, and always give positions back if they feel they have taken them in an unfair manner. With everyones different styles of driving there is always going to be the element of unpredictability in races, and sometimes incidents will occur...
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This is well said and spot on.
 
OmniusGT
No comment :banghead:
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Sorry if I said something out of turn? I know you can't police it during a race but my comment was made following an observation from practice. I just wanted to convey how I noticed the gain in speed and lap time from these subtle corner cuts, especially on a track like this where that can be abused so easily. I know the standard in this series is very high and regular drivers would not do this.
 
OmniusGT
Jammy, that comment wasn't directed at your comment :)
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Why are you commenting at all? Doe's being facetious humour you? You're a series organiser are you not? I thought you'd have a generally more helpful manner. It seems I've stepped into quite a cliquey group of racers so I won't comment any further. Even though we were encouraged to discuss such matters for consideration.

Before i leave you to it and since jammys concern hasn't been directly addressed, I'll do that myself and assume that two wheels off track in this series is acceptable. As stated in the OLR, but not elaborated on in the opening post. People were gaining time on you fairly Jam.
 
Anchorman-well-that-escalated-quickly.jpg
 
Captain Roh
Why are you commenting at all? Doe's being facetious humour you? You're a series organiser are you not? I thought you'd have a generally more helpful manner. It seems I've stepped into quite a cliquey group of racers so I won't comment any further. Even though we were encouraged to discuss such matters for consideration.

Before i leave you to it and since jammys concern hasn't been directly addressed, I'll do that myself and assume that two wheels off track in this series is acceptable. As stated in the OLR, but not elaborated on in the opening post. People were gaining time on you fairly Jam.
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Right. Enough of this. Captain Roh, I appreciate your input having run a series before, but this isnt Concourse its The Sunday Cup. I respect you as a fast racer, and I did suggest you have a look at my series when you posted in another thread about the lack of online racing. The Sunday Cup has been going for nearly a year, and judging by the amount of return customers I have, I think it speaks for itself. A full grid with extra reserve drivers, I appreciate your suggestions, but at the end of the day this 1 race is an infill between seasons to give Sunday Cuppers a race between the break of seasons. I am not about to enforce stringent rules and vet people who wish to race in this Christmas special. I had a good couple of laps with you tonight in my lobby, and only came off because my kids needed to use the computer. But felt I had to post. Please dont come on my thread and call my racers facetious, and label my racers cliquey. If it isnt for you, fair enough. But dont complain about the lack of online racing, and then complain when you are invited.


Jammy, 2 wheels on the track mate, but you knew that anyway.:sly:
 
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GTP_ADE
Right. Enough of this. Captain Roh, I appreciate your input having run a series before, but this isnt Concourse its The Sunday Cup. I respect you as a fast racer, and I did suggest you have a look at my series when you posted in another thread about the lack of online racing. The Sunday Cup has been going for nearly a year, and judging by the amount of return customers I have, I think it speaks for itself. A full grid with extra reserve drivers, I appreciate your suggestions, but at the end of the day this 1 race is an infill between seasons to give Sunday Cuppers a race between the break of seasons. I am not about to enforce stringent rules and vet people who wish to race in this Christmas special. I had a good couple of laps with you tonight in my lobby, and only came off because my kids needed to use the computer. But felt I had to post. Please dont come on my thread and call my racers facetious, and label my racers cliquey. If it isnt for you, fair enough. But dont complain about the lack of online racing, and then complain when you are invited.


Jammy, 2 wheels on the track mate, but you knew that anyway.:sly:
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Hang on,.. I'm encouraged to bring up suggestions, I try to discuss them, then cut to right now and I'm being reprimanded for trying to 'ENFORCE' stringent rules?! Whats going on?

I took offence to the flippant post by Omnious yes. Was there any need for it? I WAS invited here, I was ASKED to discuss suggestions.. Where exactly am I in the wrong?

Anything I've said was with regard for the betterment of the racing here in respect to people having the fairest experience. And everything is in response to what I saw on track in your lobby and concerns other members have raised. I havent tried to manipulate the race into a Concours event, and to be frank I dont care what you decide. I was trying to help.

Whatever the settings I race the same. It really doesnt effect me.


To be clear on this subject OLR states two wheels over and two wheels on the curb is clean. (follow a WRS event for picture confirmation). In your last comment are you saying; you consider curb as track (OLR), or two wheels must remain on the tarmac? (ie GT penalty)
 
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Captain Roh
Omnious
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Who? :dunce:

Oh and what's this obsession with GTP OLR? Some series run fine without needing to have their hands held... :indiff:

OLR isn't the be all and end all of online racing
 
When I enter a series with the proviso 'This is a clean racing series, so please follow the GTPlanet OLR.' I kind of expect that people should, no? Maybe I'm wrong, I do apologise. For getting your made up forum name wrong too, how rude of me :rolleyes:
 
Captain Roh
When I enter a series with the proviso 'This is a clean racing series, so please follow the GTPlanet OLR.' I kind of expect that people should, no? Maybe I'm wrong, I do apologise. For getting your made up forum name wrong too, how rude of me :rolleyes:
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I always watch the people around me in races, don't think I've ever seen anyone cutting corners, since everyone here is pretty good when it comes to following the rules/olr whatever you want to call it.

Only time I've had trouble is when back markers decide they want to have a race when I'm lapping them, I don't expect them to just slow down and let me past but at least give me the racing line so I can get past. This has happened a few times and it is slightly annoying, especially if someone is 4-5 seconds behind me.

I have to say though, you guys are some of the cleanest and most fun people to race with.

Massively looking forward to sarthe, one of my favourite tracks.

On a side note can people tell me their favourite tracks?
 
Captain Roh
When I enter a series with the proviso 'This is a clean racing series, so please follow the GTPlanet OLR.' I kind of expect that people should, no? Maybe I'm wrong, I do apologise. For getting your made up forum name wrong too, how rude of me :rolleyes:
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I was referring to the xmas special race...

In other news, my favourite track - Nordschleife 👍
 
OmniusGT
I was referring to the xmas special race...

In other news, my favourite track - Nordschleife 👍
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Having a race on the Nordschleife with clean drivers, and in a fun car, is amazing, i had a race a while ago, it was one make M3, so much fun! :)
 
jimftr
Having a race on the Nordschleife with clean drivers, and in a fun car, is amazing, i had a race a while ago, it was one make M3, so much fun! :)
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Heavy damage settings on that track...don't get me started! :grumpy:

Although a one-make M3 on N24 track, count me in anytime!
 
Captain Roh
In your last comment are you saying; you consider curb as track (OLR), or two wheels must remain on the tarmac? (ie GT penalty)
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I would prefer 2 wheels on the tarmac, however as this is going to be a massive race to police without the use of penalties, then I think the use of the curbs should be permitted, as long as its not blatant corner cutting. I set this race up as many regular Sunday Cuppers requested doing an Enduro. Personally I have not raced on Le Sarthe that often, and probably didnt realize the complexity's of running a big race here, but I arranged it for the drivers who requested it. Yes it will be a challenge especially for those who are not quite as fast and skilled as others (myself included). But this is a 1st for The Sunday Cup.

I do appreciate your suggestions, and I have taken them on board with regards to running practice sessions for this race with damage and penalties to help everyone have a better experience come race day. My comment about stringent rules was in regard to your comment about screening drivers. I dont need to do this as I trust all the drivers in this series, and have raced with most of them for a year or more now. As I have said before, there are drivers of all skill levels, but they are all clean and fair. I have enjoyed many midfield battles with a lot of them. I am by no means a fast GT5 driver, and havnt even had a podium in my own series, but having a good clean battle with some of these guys, if only for a 6th, 7th, 8th or 9th place is awesome.

With regards to the first practice session we had on Saturday, that was the first time we had tried the combo. It was unscheduled with most racers having to leave the room to buy the tuning parts for the car after the Mini event and it was a bit messy, agreed, but this should not be a reflection on what the race will be like. We have 2 weekends before raceday to get in plenty of practice, I know I need it, and I did see an improvement in myself last night.

My post last night was in response to my racers being referred to as cliquey. They are not. They are all excellent sports, who have all shown proper dedication and support to this series for nearly a year, and I love them all. That is all.


Jim.

Monza and Nurb GP/F GP/D
 

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