The Thrustmaster T500RS Thread

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crox
HE, optical sensor, potentiometer - all measure distance traveled. That's the sticking point.

Premium pedals, such as ClubSport ($200), ECCI ($600), Perfect Pedal ($250-500), measure force applied.
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I know it very possible to simulate brakes using a pot. Nixim mod is a good example of how it's done. As I press the brake with nixim mod the force/resistance increases.
 
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highlifeGT
I wonder when I'll start seeing posts like mine that explain how its nowhere online at any of the sites that are supposed to be selling it beginning today (the 5th). Epic Fail Thrustmaster.
I just talked to a FRY's electronics rep, and they have no record and no indication that they will carry the T500 RS. Yet the site lists it as being available today, and lists all the retailers.
What a complete bust. All this hype and discussion over the T500, and its STILL nowhere to be seen online, not even for pre-order (except the UK which wont ship to the US).

EPIC FAIL.
This should be a clear warning that this company's not prepared to deliver a quality product when they say they can. So what happens when a T500 wheel malfunctions, and you have to send it in to them for repairs? same thing thats happening now...waiting despite being told a specific deadline.
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It's a wheel for GT5... it fits perfectly with the game don't you think? :D

7HO
Apparently standard wheels emulate a DS3 on the PS3 and this apparently causes an issue of deadzone and limits the level of realistic feedback.
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Are you sure about this? I am pretty sure any decently coded game recognizes it's a wheel and not a DS3 and applies an appropriate deadzone and accuracy (the DS3 I believe only has a few dozen steps of accuracy while my wheel definitely has MANY more steps).

Also if wheels were just emulated DS3's why wouldn't the buttons on a G27 all work?
 
Spagetti69
Are you suggesting it's a Premium wheel with standard pedals.
Do you know that Kaz is personally involved in this project. He wouldn't stand for anything like that.
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I understand that, I never really wanted to imply that they were bad. What I was really trying to emphasize is the fact that the CSP are considered one of the best pedals out there and are already trusted.

Hopefully the thrustmaster's are just as good, I really love the inverted setup too so I hope they are great.
 
Wow, here we go again about these pedals being judged as poor from doubters and so far comments from actual owners are quite positive.

Indeed they dont have a load cell and if thats so important to some of you then stick with or get the Fanatec CSP. T500 pedals are better than G27 pedals, more adaptable, heavier, inc inversion, spaced more apart, contactless no wear n tear, easily movable.

It just comes across as Fanatec fans/owners being defensive and is getting a little tiring now.

It's clear the T500 has it's own advantages over even a Fanatec, so try to balance your opinions and if anything the mod community can only improve them further just like the G25 pedals seen.
 
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7HO
Apparently standard wheels emulate a DS3 on the PS3 and this apparently causes an issue of deadzone and limits the level of realistic feedback.
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If you think about it... ISR did mention that Dirt 2 and F1 2010 had no FFB, so I'm guessing the T500 RS was working in standard wheel mode with the other games. Hopefully future games could be played straight from the box with the T500 or the older games having a patch for this wheel... :)

Julienm: Thanks you for posting up your T500 RS!!! Looking forward to whatever comments you have to say about the wheel... :D
 
Muzaffar
If you think about it... ISR did mention that Dirt 2 and F1 2010 had no FFB, so I'm guessing the T500 RS was working in standard wheel mode with the other games. Hopefully future games could be played straight from the box with the T500 or the older games having a patch for this wheel... :)

Julienm: Thanks you for posting up your T500 RS!!! Looking forward to whatever comments you have to say about the wheel... :D
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This makes sense actually.

When run Enthusia on my PS3, it detects the Fanatec GT2 and the G25 both as DFP wheels and has FFB.

So perhaps there is a clear difference between games detecting the Logitech Series of wheels (and the g25/7 emulates the DFP) and games just detecting "a wheel".

And the "a wheel" crowd may very well be detecting a 270* "simulated" wheel that is really being treated as a DS3.

And TM have not bothered to license any Logitech compatibility so they are coming across the the games just as "a wheel" ie. a DS3.
 
RC45
This makes sense actually.

When run Enthusia on my PS3, it detects the Fanatec GT2 and the G25 both as DFP wheels and has FFB.

So perhaps there is a clear difference between games detecting the Logitech Series of wheels (and the g25/7 emulates the DFP) and games just detecting "a wheel".

And the "a wheel" crowd may very well be detecting a 270* "simulated" wheel that is really being treated as a DS3.

And TM have not bothered to license any Logitech compatibility so they are coming across the the games just as "a wheel" ie. a DS3.
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Got to remember though, the T500 RS wheel never existed when those games were made and I'm pretty sure Logitech has been using the same FFB software on all their wheels (hence why the G25/G27 can be detected on older games) but most of all, the announcement of the T500 RS was just spontaneous (I mean, nobody would have thought of the wheel coming out before GT5). Also TM maybe is implementing a new FFB feature that couldn't be recognize by other games besides GT5 at the moment, and maybe TM's FFB works far better than both Logitech and Fanatec's FFB.

Well who knows, the wheel hasn't been thoroughly tested yet so we just have to wait and see. :)
 
Devedander
Are you sure about this? I am pretty sure any decently coded game recognizes it's a wheel and not a DS3 and applies an appropriate deadzone and accuracy (the DS3 I believe only has a few dozen steps of accuracy while my wheel definitely has MANY more steps).

Also if wheels were just emulated DS3's why wouldn't the buttons on a G27 all work?
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No I'm not, that is why I used the language I did. Emulate is a bad word I think, I actually borrowed it from the TM site. All wheels identify themselves, I think the argument being made is that the system used by wheels currently is a system developed for the DS3 and so wheels on the PS3 are limited by the limitations of the DS3.

Why are the buttons not working on the G27? This is just personal opinion but I believe the G27 has been nurf'd intentionally and I think it is because PD and possibly Sony believe that peripherals should be licensed.
 
On Nixim (T500RS claimed to be similar) vs. Load Cell (Fanatec), I've done some Googling previously. Not many people have had both, it seems. Here is one write up:

First some background info:
There's no doubt that for me, pedals are more important than the wheel. Ever since I started simracing I've spent a LOT of effort learning various pedal techniques, and I quickly started trying to learn heel&toe. A lot of work also went into modding my G25 pedals (including the Nixim mod), and eventually, I arrived at a configuration that I was rather pleased with. I also made a youtube video showing the "fruits of my labour".

But even with everything "perfected", I still suffered a big problem: I was simply unable to maintain a constant pressure on the brake while heel&toe-ing. As I blipped the throttle I would inevitably loose some brake pressure.

The pedals
Now, moving on to the Clubsport pedals.. Inside the brake there's a piece of rather stiff foam which, as you press the pedal, offers progressively more resistance. (unlike a spring, where force and distance increase in proportion all the way) So at first, it's rather soft and squishy but then it stiffens progressively.

"Hold on a minute", you might say. "I can get the same effect in my G25 pedals by using the Nixim mod, because rubber and foam have quite similar characteristics when you push on it!"

Yes, that's true. But as you'll probably know, the brake pedal on the Clubsports uses a load cell rather than a potentiometer (which is used on the G25). This means that rather than measuring how far you push the pedal, it measures which force you're applying. And for me at least, it's much easier to maintain a near-constant force than a constant distance of depression while braking.

It's a bit hard to put into words, but the net result speaks for itself: I am now able to maintain an (approximately) constant amount of braking when heel&toe-ing! This really improved my car control a lot. To illustrate, I'm attaching two replays: one old one with the G25, and a new one with the Clubsports. You'll quite clearly see the difference, I think.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=62258
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7HO
No I'm not, that is why I used the language I did. Emulate is a bad word I think, I actually borrowed it from the TM site. All wheels identify themselves, I think the argument being made is that the system used by wheels currently is a system developed for the DS3 and so wheels on the PS3 are limited by the limitations of the DS3.

Why are the buttons not working on the G27? This is just personal opinion but I believe the G27 has been nurf'd intentionally and I think it is because PD and possibly Sony believe that peripherals should be licensed.
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I would quesiton the explanation from TM then... it seems somehow unlikely that wheels are somehow treated as DS3s...
 
ShylockHolmes
Yikes! $600 for a wheel that only works with one game, no shifter and run of the mill pedals. If they were smart they would have made it compatible with Fanatec and Logitech pedals and had a wheel only version.
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Are you seriously making a value statement based on a PRE-RELEASE driver situation, a non-essential add-on, and a grossly inaccurate pedal statement (ISR said AS GOOD as the G27 with mod - hardly run of the mill)? Really? That's the level of analysis to justify slamming the price? Wow.

Oh, I get it the T500RS is a threat to the security of your decision to buy Fanatec. Makes sense now.
 
crox
On Nixim (T500RS claimed to be similar) vs. Load Cell (Fanatec), I've done some Googling previously. Not many people have had both, it seems. Here is one write up:
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I have both and yes the nixim mod put up a lot more resistance than CSP foam. CSP foam is soft compared to nixim mod rubber. CSP while smashing that foam rubber acts just like a pot until suddenly a dead stop as you totally press against the load cell itself. With the nixim mod you don't feel this dead stop as you do with CSP. Still with any game that has adjustments I can heel and toe just as easy as CSP. One advantage CSP has is it can be adjusted on the hardware itself while the nixim mod can't.
 
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crox
Wheels have neither load cell nor hydraulics. Believe that makes them standard.
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Well the statement was "run of the mill" which doesn't mean standard it means AVERAGE and it's already clear these are not average. Perhaps not top of the line - but clearly not "run of the mill".
 
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Zoom!Zoom!
I know it very possible to simulate brakes using a pot. Nixim mod is a good example of how it's done. As I press the brake with nixim mod the force/resistance increases.
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Exactly. Constant/linear resistance is the problem with basic pedals. If the resistance increases over the travel of the pedal then the feel is more realistic because it takes more pressure to lock the brakes. Hell I used a mini nerf football cut in half under my old Momo pedals to make the braking more realistic and it worked.

I know this isn't PERFECT but the bottom line is the T500RS pedals should certainly be much closer to the best in class than just about any other unit.
 
Mr Latte
Wow, here we go again about these pedals being judged as poor from doubters and so far comments from actual owners are quite positive.

Indeed they dont have a load cell and if thats so important to some of you then stick with or get the Fanatec CSP. T500 pedals are better than G27 pedals, more adaptable, heavier, inc inversion, spaced more apart, contactless no wear n tear, easily movable.

It just comes across as Fanatec fans/owners being defensive and is getting a little tiring now.

It's clear the T500 has it's own advantages over even a Fanatec, so try to balance your opinions and if anything the mod community can only improve them further just like the G25 pedals seen.
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Mr Latte I'd like to buy you a coffee because your posts are generally right on. Well said. 👍👍👍
 
Just one or two very firsts impressions because it's late here in france and i must go to work in 5 hours...

the pedals looks robusts and well designed. heavy, full metal.

As i said before, can't compare to another excepts the G25's.

the brake's mod is for me really an improvment (i remind you i had a stock
g25 before) at least in terms of feeling.

there is a lot of possibilitys of adjustements on the pedals. so i have set the break pedal to the left, as far as possible from the gaz pedal, in order to have a comfortable left foot brake.
good results for me. even with the central bar of the playseat.

the clutch don't work actually.

To devander, i will try tomorow the brake without the mod and will say to you
my feeling.

the wheel is another world compare to the g25, as expected.
very very strong.
for example, when you spin, it's sometimes (depends of the car) almost impossible to retain the wheel (gt5 ffb set on 10, haven't yet try another value). impressive, but for me a detail.

the most important is that it is very smooth, sensitive.
the strengh of the wheel serves the acurancy and the velocity of the informations that the game (the virtual car) send to you, and that's precisely what i was expecting to.

imo, a great leap forward.
can't wait to try this on Iracing... hope the support will be good.

the rim has no leather... a litlle bit disapointing for me.
good grip and pleasant contact despite all.

there is a fan in the wheel, a bit noisy.

nothing special about the paddles, well designed and sharp contacts.

very good thing the paddles do not turn with the wheel imo.

but it will take a litlle practice not to search them around the wheel after 3 years with a g25.

and that's true with the overall feeling, probably due to the FFB, very different, and the diameter of the wheel.

last remark, at this time, i'm not faster with this wheel.
question of time, i hope ;).

very happy with this product after aprox. 6 hours of test with differents cars.


definetely time for me to go sleeping.


good night :)
 
wow! thanks for the insights into your new wheel! please tell us more about the thrustmaster, but only when you have time and are rested.
:)
 
In the stock position, did your left leg hug the center bar like the G25 brake pedal?

What distance do you have between brake and gas right now?

Is your left leg touching the bar at all now?

Is your crotch bunched up?

So sick of "G25 Left Foot Brake Numb Nuts Syndrome"!!!
 
DaveTheStalker
In the stock position, did your left leg hug the center bar like the G25 brake pedal?

What distance do you have between brake and gas right now?

Is your left leg touching the bar at all now?

Is your crotch bunched up?

So sick of "G25 Left Foot Brake Numb Nuts Syndrome"!!!
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Which is why I never upgraded my Playseats from version 1.

I would rather have rickety and comfy nuts than sturdy with numb nuts LOL

Now if only we can get a headsup on the shifter for the T500RS....
 
Devedander
If I recall the G25/27 shifters were notable for their ability to lock up breaks within a tiny amount of travel in GT... this is not something I have had problems with in other games so maybe it's more a matter of how PD implimented the G25/27 brakes being so bad?

Have you tried it without the spring mod? I would be interested to know if stock it works more like a G25 brake or a CSP brake...
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They need to be calibrated by pressing all the way down when racing or in a time trial everytime you boot up GT5
 
CoolColJ
They need to be calibrated by pressing all the way down when racing or in a time trial everytime you boot up GT5
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Not just Gt5 but every time you see the wheel calibrating including PC. I'm pretty sure even CSP gas and clutch also needs to be calibrated but not the brakes since it has hardware adjustment. The only reason it's more noticeable in GT5 is when the brakes reads from 0% to a full 100% it means you slam on the brakes like a crazy person.
 
My son has my PlaySeat. I upgraded to an Obutto. I couldn't take that steep angle of the pedal plate. Tried many different adjustments, finally
I got to the point that I didn't want to drive anymore. Too painful! Only with the left ankle, because of covering the brake.

The Obutto is wide open and has angle adjustments. Mine is almost flat. The G25 Numb Nuts Syndrome is directly related to the gas and brake pedals being to close. G27 has adjustable pedal plates. While the T500 looks to have more options. If it's possible, I'd really like to lower the brake pedal travel by like half.
 
DaveTheStalker
My son has my PlaySeat. I upgraded to an Obutto. I couldn't take that steep angle of the pedal plate. Tried many different adjustments, finally
I got to the point that I didn't want to drive anymore. Too painful! Only with the left ankle, because of covering the brake.

The Obutto is wide open and has angle adjustments. Mine is almost flat. The G25 Numb Nuts Syndrome is directly related to the gas and brake pedals being to close. G27 has adjustable pedal plates. While the T500 looks to have more options. If it's possible, I'd really like to lower the brake pedal travel by like half.
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So does G25, same pedals.
 
Um, forgive ignorance, I'm not seeing anyway to set the pedals any other way. There are 2 holes for mounting, with plastic nubs to give some grip. Am I missing out on something???

1d7262ac.jpg
 
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DaveTheStalker
Um, forgive ignorance, I'm not seeing anyway to set the pedals any other way. There are 2 holes for mounting, with rubber nubs to give some grip. Am I missing out on something???
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No you are not, I never seem to bother to remember about the extra tapped holes in the pedal uprights of the G27. Ihave large feet and dont need the pedals moved. I recall a friend had his G25 pedals swapped as a warranty repair a while back, they sent hi,m the G27 pedals and he ended up putting the G25 rubbers back to move the pedals back again.

So many options so many choices, not all worth rememebring ;)
 
Julienm, could you do a little writeup on the wheel software itself?

What I mean is, what things can you adjust on the wheel itself to fine tune it. Things like deadzone, center spring, linearity, degrees of rotation and such. Most reviews always fawn over everything else, but the tuning options are just as important imo.
 
Ken Nitr0
Julienm, could you do a little writeup on the wheel software itself?

What I mean is, what things can you adjust on the wheel itself to fine tune it. Things like deadzone, center spring, linearity, degrees of rotation and such. Most reviews always fawn over everything else, but the tuning options are just as important imo.
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Zero in GT5, nothing......

Unless you mean like Fanatecs, then not much I don't think
 

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