The Time Extend Podcast - #28: GRIDLocked

Discussion in 'Console & PC Gaming' started by Brend, Feb 14, 2018.

  1. Brend

    Brend Premium

    Messages:
    11,692
    You’re definitely of the same mindset as Jordan! :lol:

    As a side - we used a new recording method since we had five audio streams to mix and manage. As a result some weird stuff happens with the bass and voice levels occasionally. :lol:
     
    glassjaw likes this.
  2. glassjaw

    glassjaw Contributing Writer

    Messages:
    1,458
    Location:
    United States
    Yup, it's the only way we were gonna get five people on a call. It's not our usual recording method, though this is Time Extend, so every time we stamp out some audio issue, another emerges :scared: At least it really only effects my voice! :lol:
     
    Brend likes this.
  3. Wilsonic

    Wilsonic

    Messages:
    20
    5 audio streams... quality issues. Shame on you for going the GT2 approach of quantity over quality. Lol, j/k. Absolutely loved this episode, I wish the 5 of you could do a podcast exclusively on GT.

    So, I think we can establish that “GT3 Moment” is a thing, because it seems like everyone has had one. My GT3 Moment was in Best Buy at a PS2 demo kiosk, and I hopped on and went through the dealerships. Immediately went for the Castrol Supra, couldn’t buy it of course but I was content to just sit there and look at the spinning car. Realistic lighting and textures! Fully featured 3D wheels with visible brake rotors! What a time to be alive. And then I checked out the Shelby Cobra and just about died when I saw it’s fully featured Halibrand wheels, complete with knockoffs. Remember folks, wheels up to this point where just circles with a texture map on them. I’m still so impressed by the menus even today, anyone doing graphic design should hold them up as a benchmark. And I miss that integrated orange tac/speedo/gear indicator, I want that in the center of the dash of a real car.

    So yea, you could say I like GT3.
     
    Brend likes this.
  4. Jordan

    Jordan Administrator

    Messages:
    22,794
    Location:
    United States
    [​IMG]
     
  5. PSN:And-War

    PSN:And-War

    Messages:
    517
    For me its GT3, just that graphical leap from GT1 and 2, I used to watch every replay in that game just still amazing and not another racing game on PS2 came close.
     
    Destroy321, SlipZtrEm and Brend like this.
  6. Torneo

    Torneo

    Messages:
    59
    I don't think that it's the best, but GT5 deserves more respect in my opinion. It certainly had some flaws like the standard cars, but if you could live with them, it was a great game.

    The long wait between GT4 and GT5 wasn't that big for me, because there was a lot to do in GT4, and then came Tourist Trophy, GTHD, GT5 Prologue and GTPSP that kept me playing. The physics were much improved over GT4. The premium cars were gorgeous. It introduced a lot of things such as variable time and weather, Ferrari and Lamborghini, painting cars and wheels, the track generator, more real-world tracks and also cool new fictional tracks, NASCAR, mechanical and visual damage, drifting was properly possible, and probably most notably, online. Shuffle racing was awesome and, overall, online was a huge addition that made a lot of things possible. The seasonal events were fun and kept me coming back to play the game. The career mode was, in my opinion, the last original style GT career mode. You won cars after winning championships, it had a used car dealership and some cars had a rare feeling, the licenses weren't easy, it featured proper endurance races which featured, for the first time, weather and time progression, more than five AI opponents, and you could suspend the race whenever you wanted and return whenever you wanted. The special events were also fun. Some didn't like the level system, but I thought it made me want to do races again which I wouldn't have ever done again. The seasonal events were a great way of leveling up. Also, the menus were beautiful and I loved the menu music.

    I think people focus too much on the negatives and completely ignore the positives of this game.
     
    PSN:And-War and Destroy321 like this.
  7. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

    Messages:
    10,297
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    GT5 had considerable merits but it was completed overshadowed by the leveling and experience idiocy.

    I started a new game when the servers were switched off to see how far I could get before doing a GT-mode race. The special events were pretty good until you get to the rally section, which I never could like. I got up to the early 20's level wise, so my first GT-mode race was in the extreme hall which isn't bad compared to the sandboxes that the earlier games were.

    It wasn't and isn't a bad game. It just isn't as good as the ones that came before it.
     
    karelpipa likes this.
  8. Seikenfreak

    Seikenfreak

    Messages:
    283
    Location:
    United States
    The correct answer is GT2. It was ground breaking, unrivaled in it's time, fun, tons of content, great soundtrack, the now classic signature menu themes and sound effects, Bleemcast!, racing modifications, great variety in specialty races (wagons, convertibles, etc.) And unlike some of the others here, it's still fun to this day because it's the perfect blend of arcade/sim on a controller. I played a bunch of it not that long ago on my RGB modified CRT TV. This game had an effect on who I am today. And I went through the headache of importing a R32 GTR 16 years later after falling in love with this series, because of GT2. GT1 was good and all but it was a proof of concept.

    Edit: Oh also, the "100 skylines" argument is such a cop-out because, as I've been friggin trying to tell people (on GTP) for 15+ years now, it probably took them all of two seconds to add another one. The vehicle model is done. Just copy and tweak it. Does it suck that they pad out their car number with that? Yes. Did the Skyline add a year onto it's development cycle or cut into their budget? No. If they didn't add those, would they have added 100 other cars instead? Nope.

    Then I'd say GT4. Play it with a wheel. Change your oil. Do laps on the Nurburgring. Stfu. GT3 was good for a launch-ish PS2 title and obviously had the nice visuals for the time but that's about it. Was more like a demo. Dreadful car selection. The handling/cars felt very stiff.. like I was driving around a block of wood. I'd rank GT6 above GT3.

    I haven't finished the podcast yet (I listen while driving for work all day) but I would've liked to hear them each state their age and when they played their personal favorites. I would've been about 12 (turning 32 this Friday?) when GT2 came around and I think there is a correlation between the two. @Jordan probably prefers GT2 because of his age and time in his life when he played it. I'll bet the people who like GT3 are a few years younger.

    Anyway, to commemorate this argument as old as time, I'll embed these GT videos I made almost 7 years ago? GT6 wasn't out yet I guess. They aren't very original but I had fun throwing them together and they've been unlisted online ever since. First public appearance!



     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  9. JacoJa

    JacoJa Premium

    Messages:
    2,241
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Great episode to listen to. Personally, I would probably take GT2 as my favourite - Only a whisker over GT4. The amount of content, cars and tracks was pretty astonishing at the time. The steady career progression, quantity and quality of events (including endurance races), obscure cars (Dodge Copperhead LM, Espace F1, Chrysler phaetom), map menu layout and overall character of the game all won me over.

    GT4 was great mostly for its variety of cars and features. Photo mode played an enormous part for me personally at the time - I have very fond memories of the photo mode competitions running at GTPlanet, mingling with other members and awing at their creative skills. They lightened-up an otherwise stressful couple of years!
    GT3 & GT1 were obviously also brilliant, but I have never been attached to the PS3-era games.

    Great show, chaps. I enjoyed! :tup:
     
    Jordan, glassjaw and Brend like this.
  10. juanffy18

    juanffy18

    Messages:
    444
    For me
    1. GT4: the pinnacle of that era, the best what offered PD, Cars, tracks, music, career mode, design.
    2. GT2: What a nostalgic thing and amazing for that moment
    3. GT3: That graphic evolution for 2000 game, nice car selection, really good career mode, and fun. But lack of content compared than GT2
     
    Brend likes this.
  11. Brend

    Brend Premium

    Messages:
    11,692
    The youth argument is a great one for sure. We associate our favourite games with memories and let’s be honest - childhood always has the best memories.

    I’m 26 for reference. I played a ton of GT2 and all the other ones since I was pretty much the perfect age for the golden period of GT.
     
    PSN:And-War and Seikenfreak like this.
  12. glassjaw

    glassjaw Contributing Writer

    Messages:
    1,458
    Location:
    United States
    Playing any old GT on an RGB CRT is *the* dream of mine, I am seriously envious! Couldn't agree more with the rest of your comment. Cannot believe I forgot to mention it on the show but my preferred way to play through GT2 is using Bleem on a Dreamcast! :lol:

    Thank you!!!
     
    Seikenfreak and JacoJa like this.
  13. SlipZtrEm

    SlipZtrEm Administrator

    Messages:
    27,341
    Location:
    Canada
    First, that was a lot of fun, so a big thanks to @Brend and @glassjaw for having us aboard. :tup:

    That last part is sort of the point though, at least for me: there were too many negatives to overlook, whereas that wasn't nearly so much the case with the games that came before. GT5's progression system is still the worst in the series, the painting of cars and wheels was laughably outdated even at launch — it took until 2017 to finally get a proper livery editor. And padding it out with 800 carryover PS2 assets is still unbelievable. There are kernels of good ideas in GT5, and crucially, GT Sport expands on some of them. But it was too inconsistent to be a truly great game, IMO.

    To be fair, that's not really part of PD's work. :p

    "Does it suck that they pad out their car number with that? Yes." sums it up. You're right that not adding them wouldn't mean 100 different cars in their place — it'd just be a more focused product. :D

    Well now that gets interesting: @Brend has stated he's 26, and @Jordan is 33. I'm a handful of months younger than Jordan, also 33. @Famine is 40. So for the three of us with the (correct :p ) answer of GT3, the average is... Jordan's age.

    For me GT2 is the close second, because it does have a lot of strengths, namely the car count. But it loses to GT3 the same reason that GT6 loses to GT Sport: the count isn't everything when the cars are of a lower quality (ie. Standards on the PS3). GT2 was GT1++, whereas GT3 was introduced more nuance and quality. Removing nostalgia from the equation, it was a more balanced game. I agree that the older games strike a great arcade/sim balance these days, but that too I'd give the nod to GT3 for, with deeper physics than the PS1 games but not the bald-front-tires-understeer physics engine of GT4.
     
  14. Seikenfreak

    Seikenfreak

    Messages:
    283
    Location:
    United States
    Separate from the external childhood experience though, I think my level of comprehension and car subject matter was blooming at that specific age. The encyclopedia aspect of it was hugely important and informative at a time when my mind was a sponge. While I appreciate that they've kept some of that spirit in the newer games, it feels a bit wasted as they've broadened the subject matter to be about pretty much anything, pop culture or historic. I almost don't even want that much info about a car manufacturer in general, but more specifically about the each car itself. Why is it unique/important/special and why did they choose to add it to the game? They made a bunch of different trims of the various Skyline models in real life and it's interesting when they actually explain the differences. They also go too far by adding the ancient museum piece vehicles.. eh I don't need that. I almost forgot about the tuning aspects as well. I don't need a super detailed tuning model like some people want, but the more information they can add in there about individual parts themselves, what they do, maybe why putting "Racing" level stuff doesn't always mean best etc. Different turbo characteristics or brake size/design. Teach us stuff. All while some chill synth lounge music loops in the background.

    This is what drives me nuts :lol: I would argue that, removing nostalgia, GT2 is the better game. It's just more game. Maybe people like the lack of content in 3 because they feel overwhelmed with entries like 2, 4, 6? Visuals seems like the only improvement over GT2, IMO. When I've tried to play GT3 once or twice in the last decade, I'm always just like.. ehh, if I want to play this era of racing game, I would play 4 because it has more content and I enjoy the vehicle handling more.

    Ahh.. this is silly :cheers:
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  15. Wilsonic

    Wilsonic

    Messages:
    20
    The age argument is interesting, but in my case it works the opposite way for me. I’m 32, played GT1 and GT2 at their releases and still love GT3. And for me, it’s because I played more primitive games in their heyday that I found GT3 to be so impressive. From Top Gear on the SNES, to Daytona in the arcade, and to GT1 and 2, they were all impressive but they were still just games. But the texture quality, polygon count, and 60fps with realistic settings and physics, GT3 hit me with something a game never did for me before: immersion. The ability to become immersed in GT3 transformed it into more than just a game for me. I lived along Tokyo R246, and the Japanese government was kind enough to close the roads for me when I wanted to race. I managed a fleet of cars that were not a collection of polygons and textures, they were real cars. It all felt so real that I wanted to live in it. And I sort of did.

    Don’t get me wrong, I loved GT2 and spent a lot of time in it. The muscle cars, the rally cars, the Espace F1, the grunge/ rock soundtrack, and the best track in any racing game ever, Red Rock Valley. But... it was still just a game. GT3 though was an experience.
     
    Destroy321, Brend and glassjaw like this.
  16. glassjaw

    glassjaw Contributing Writer

    Messages:
    1,458
    Location:
    United States
    Generally I agree with the whole "less is more" philosophy. I was that guy apologizing for Turn 10 when people were upset Forza 5 wasn't big enough (and I never owned an Xbox One or played that game :lol:). But less is only more when there's a differential in quality at play. If you compare GT5 and GT3, there's clearly a massive differential in quality there, in GT3's favor. GT4 on the other hand, executed GT3's attention to detail, only at a larger scale. And, once again I ask you all, what's so bad about more of a good thing?
     
    Wilsonic likes this.
  17. Brend

    Brend Premium

    Messages:
    11,692
    The handling engine and you goddamn know it.
     
    SlipZtrEm, glassjaw and Wilsonic like this.
  18. Brend

    Brend Premium

    Messages:
    11,692


    Grid is back! To celebrate Autosport's Switch release and the forthcoming reboot, the boys dive into the beginnings of Codies' premier circuit racing franchise before discussing their hopes for the future. Grid managed to feel real without being a simulator, and it's that authenticity we hope is preserved as the series enters an exciting new era.
     
  19. adam thompson

    adam thompson

    Messages:
    301
    Location:
    Australia
    I just subbed and also downloaded all to listen to via iTunes so I have a fair few to catch up on. Thank you

    also love grid and can’t wait for ultimate edition to come out in October.
     
    Brend and glassjaw like this.
  20. Brend

    Brend Premium

    Messages:
    11,692
    Enjoy! :D
     
  21. TheHun99

    TheHun99

    Messages:
    216
    Just listened to the episode a few days ago, was quite interesting! I never played GRID (despite owning it on Steam, although I don't think it would be uncommon for people having games in their library they didn't really touch, right ;) )but did play GRID 2. I quite liked it and just finished the career after like a 5-6 year break - it turned out I was 3 events from finishing it LOL - it reminded me that I don't particularly like the street/city courses (not that I would have forgotten it), same with the touge courses, especially in a hypercar.

    Nevetheless, I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment that it could have been easily a current-gen title - although I also think that Criterion's Hot Pursuit is still just as gorgeous now as it was back in 2010.

    One more remark: I thought you guys would mention Autosport beyond the Switch port. Sure, it's a bit of an offshoot compared to the main GRID games but I definitely like it, especially it's track list is quite nice and the pure motorsport focus is also great with full sessions of limited time practice and qualifying, multiple races, quite diverse car list (sure, could always be larger but it's quite descent).
     
    Brend likes this.
  22. Brend

    Brend Premium

    Messages:
    11,692
    For Autosport we will be discussing it in-depth in a future episode, just alongside the new reboot. :tup:

    I’m also going to get the Stadia version for a future episode about that platform and how racing games may fare on it going forward. So, yeah a LOT of GRID.

    Funny you should mention NFS Hot Pursuit as we will be doing a retrospective of that series before Heat arrives too. :D
     
    TheHun99 likes this.
  23. TheHun99

    TheHun99

    Messages:
    216
    Sounds good!

    Sounds even better :D Despite my age (over 40) I'm relatively new to gaming, starting only in 2011. The first game that pulled me in was NFS:HP in iOS. It had Autolog, went to the NFS website only to realize that the Autolog there is for the proper NFS:HP, not the iOS version. I looked it up and was love at first sight. I already owned a 360 (for Netflix etc), so I got it for that. To this date it's definitely in my top 3. Of course, this was just around the hype before The Run that I was super excited about. Loved the demo with the battling the times of friends, although the whole game was somewhat a disappointment for me - unlike the 2012 Most Wanted that I loved, too, it was my first platinum (on Vita, only bought a Vita for that game LOL).

    EDIT: almost forgot, the E3 trailer of HP2010 still brings chills, that is a great piece of art.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
    Brend likes this.
  24. Brend

    Brend Premium

    Messages:
    11,692


    This week, the boys share some choice memories of mediocre racing games. In that sense, it's not particularly different from any other episode of Time Extend, except this one has a theme. Everything discussed here — from Race Driver: Create and Race on the DS, to the last Sega Rally game ever made — falls right in that sweet spot between love and hate.
     
  25. Brend

    Brend Premium

    Messages:
    11,692


    The biggest racer of 2019 is finally here and, well, the boys have mixed feelings about it. There's little doubt that Codemasters' Grid reboot recaptures the flair of the original, but it's the lack of depth that is the subject of this unnaturally cynical installment of the irreverent racing game show you know and love.

    What do you think of the new Grid? We'd love to hear your thoughts over on Twitter @time_extend
     
  26. Shofast

    Shofast

    Messages:
    51
    Got it day 1, did a few races. Go fly into a wall head on once, either nothing happens or you will total your car with no damage. Mechanical damage is almost not there either. Just flashbacking is boring also, wheres the replay and camera modes to watch the wreck? I went right back to playing the first Grid on ps3. At least the first grid greats me with “Hello Dude, your car is ready and waiting”. I still own the new Grid ultimate edition on ps4 but it will take alot for me play it again. I can go on and on about how this game is not the original Grid.
     
    PSN:And-War and Brend like this.
  27. Brend

    Brend Premium

    Messages:
    11,692
    It’s incredibly disappointing on so many levels.
     
    PSN:And-War likes this.
  28. PSN:And-War

    PSN:And-War

    Messages:
    517
    Any chance of covering Geoff Crammond F1 titles I loved them all, the lotus turbo challenge games, Stunt Car Racer. Moto Racer 1 and 2. Also grand prix legends does thst not get a mention.

    Also the great mods for ISI EA F1 game, alms series by rsdg I still have the mod on a dvd, the gtr mod that later turned into the simbina gtr game.

    Also ISI Sports car Challenge on pc n ps1 that was a great game too.
     
    glassjaw and Shofast like this.
  29. Shofast

    Shofast

    Messages:
    51
    I just recently picked up F1 Career Challenge for PS2 from Ea Sports. Im a huge video game collector and it seemed like a hidden gem as ive never even heard of it before
     
    glassjaw and PSN:And-War like this.
  30. glassjaw

    glassjaw Contributing Writer

    Messages:
    1,458
    Location:
    United States
    The issue with those retro PC sims is that neither of us really have any expertise with those games, sadly. Though that's not to say we're not interested in chatting about them, perhaps with someone who knows a lot more than we do on the topic.