The Tire Pressure Discussion - Let out some air here!

[bigguy733]

but tire preassure and such mechanics are way down the fixing list in my eyes.
Greets
Welfur

Yes, I'm thinking maybe in GT6

 

[Biggamehit]

Being a reality racer.. PSI is vital I tell it to all the new guys I take out to the track weather it be Drifting, Auto-x or drag....

In due time.

 

[FyreandIce]

I'm gob smacked how some of you can honestly defend the lack of tyre pressure adjustment.

 

[objp]

Guys calm down,
yes tire preassure is really important in RL, thats without question.
But you have to see the bigger picture here. GT5 is a mass market product. And I guess 99.9% of all gamers would be completly frustrated with the game if something like tyre preassure would be realisticly simulated, cause they are neither mechanics nor real race drivers in RL. They would never stand a chance in this game to compete with "carmaniacs".
If you really need a complete simulation of all physics and mechanics which influence a racing car, you better get your bank to give you a huge loan, cause this type of simulators are way above the 7 figure mark and are way over the head, both financially and skillwise, a normal player can handle.
GT5 has flaws, which dearly need fixing, but tire preassure and such mechanics are way down the fixing list in my eyes.
Greets
Welfur

I would hope tire pressure is at least simulated by the tire model because if its not....omg big problems on our hands.

I played games 10-12 years ago that had tire pressure adjustments. Its the most BASIC adjustment you can do to any car since any car has 4 tires that are full of air.

"Carmanic" stuff would be roll center, bump steer, fast bump/rebound on dampers. Stuff like that. Tire pressure is easy.

 

[athlonix]

I think that the OP was not saying that tire pressure should not in the game, but rather that it's silly to complain about it not being in.

GT5 offers a massive amount of features, and I think the OP's attitude, which mirrors my own, is that GT5 is giving you the moon, but you guys want Mars.
Everything that happens in real life should be in, but it's not all going to be in. There are technical and design limitations, both to the PS3 and to GT5's engine.
Tire pressure specifically would offer a huge variable into the game, and maybe the physics engine couldn't handle another variable, or couldn't apply it accurately.

Besides, what percentage of GT5 players are actually going to care about setting up tire pressure? I'd bet the number is less than 1%.
So there's really no particular reason to add it except to please the few who actually really care.

It's a good idea for GT6 though.

As usual the reason behind such whining is that another game has these features, i point you towards FM3, the bottom line with all arguments is people expect the godfather of racers to have as much option and detail as the competition and either have more features, or the same features better. but when GT5 doesn't have some of these what i'd call 'sim' features i'm not really surprised by the whinging, tbh I think GT5 is cool, the physics model is proving challenging, but if were handing out awards depending actual content and features, i'm sorry to say that GT5 looses to the likes of FM3. and with FM4 well on the way i wouldn't be surprised if we have GT5 but with all the FM3 features, which i think will crush the GT franchise as by then it will not be delivering the goods people expect.

The other thing to bear in mind is GT5 is the 5th literation of the GT series, FM on its 3rd and heading to the 4th, if some serious patching doesn't come about in the next 9 months to improve GT5 to the standard of FM4 then i fear Kaz may loose his reputation, and PD will probably be on a back foot to Turn 10.

 

[justahead]

If tire pressure was implemented, PD would also have to add The Great White Shark to the car list, and a Hunter Thompson challenge. "These are the new 100psi tires, strickly experimental". The challenge could be called Bat Country.

 

[RedBaron]

I am curious what people can say. Tyres and their pressure are the first thing that gives you contact to a road under the car and their characteristics should be spine of game physics!

 

[GTXLR]

That may be, but maybe PD were simply unable to implement it due to time or technical constraints.

And if tire pressure is so important to you, why don't you go and play Forza? It's an excellent game as well, and if I recall correctly, it has adjustments for this. If tire pressure is so vital then surely Forza must be a much better game for having it. But the reason we all play GT5 is not that it is flawless, but because its greatness makes up for them.

It also models tyre wall flexing, internal air temp and pressures as well as surface temperature across the tread, I was never really impressed with all this talk as I thought GT was easily capable of simulating all this and more.
I guess in the struggle to get it looking the best at 1080p (which in the great scheme of things doesnt really blow me away, unless you spend a good bit of time in Photomode), it just seems that PD werent capable of cramming all the calculations required per cycle to bring us what we would have liked, after trying to fulfill Sonys wish list of the Product promoting gimmicks.
Im sure 3D is wonderful and all but one has to wonder just how many physics and graphical calcs had to be held back in order to maintain the exact same game experience in 3D and 2D alike, to go aside with the insistance in maintining the line of 1080p capability in 2D.
Cramming in Head tracking for the PS eye in Arcade mode only becasue of limitations with the PS3 with in GT Life, is a clear nod in the direction of what I am talking about here.

I was highly unimpressed with certain aspects of Forza's visual representation as I had become used to GT's representation, but I have to say I can now respect that they made the choice to reign back on certain aspects of the graphics in order to maintain the target for the physics cycle, now granted the physics engine still neeeds some work and refining and a much more opened system so Turn 10 can make full and correct use of the available aftermarket wheels rather than having to leave steering buffers designed for pad uses in wheel code as the MS wheel is just a Pad with a wheel attached, and its quite obviuos to me that the fanatec option just piggy backed off of this and is mimicking it.

Indeed it is a very good game, getting better with age, and I will look forward to the next generations iteration, maybe even more than I have looked forward to GT5.

 

[SigmaViper11]

Tire pressure. Sure. But I want corresponding tire wear. So if need be, driving on rims.

 

[FissionMailed]

With all do respect I don't think you people are being very realistic. The PS3 is almost 5 years old, I'm sure Kaz has tried his best to incorporate as much as possible to make this game work. I don't think anyone here has a clue about how complicated it is to develop a game on the PS3, especially given the fact that the PS2 was 100X simpler to work with and that they have never developed a game of this size before.

If anyone here has played MGS4 I'm sure you know about the inconsistencies with that too.. The director Hideo Kojima ended up making the same mistake that Kaz did; lies from Sony, large passionate vision and the key: he overestimated the capabilities of the PS3, period.

 

[-=DV=-]

I think that the OP was not saying that tire pressure should not in the game, but rather that it's silly to complain about it not being in.

GT5 offers a massive amount of features, and I think the OP's attitude, which mirrors my own, is that GT5 is giving you the moon, but you guys want Mars.

No, when told to "Expect Perfection" from "The Real Driving Simulator" people atleast expect ATLEAST what just about every other sim and even alot of arcade racers have delivered for years. The amount of insane oversights in this game is almost scary.

 

[Ch0zander]

Please! Don't feed the troll, close this thread. it's pointless and not productive criticism and it insults other users.

Edit: I meant the OP

 

[emill910]

As someone who has dabbled in racing in real life....tire pressure is THE MOST IMPORTANT aspect of adjusting ANY car for racing. Whether it be for track day, autocross, SCCA, or professional series. Its the only part of the car that touches the road.

couldn't have said it better. I seen people pick up plenty of time on the drag strip from Tire pressure adjustments.

To the OP is tire pressure isnt important, go inflate the tires on your real car to like 50 psi and let me know how it goes

 

[PzR Slim]

No, when told to "Expect Perfection" from "The Real Driving Simulator" people atleast expect ATLEAST what just about every other sim and even alot of arcade racers have delivered for years. The amount of insane oversights in this game is almost scary.

Spot on. Add not being able to adjust individual ratios to the mix as well.

 

[Scaff]

Having tyre temperature indicators but having no way to adjust tyre pressures is borderline retarded.

To make a thread saying it's not a big deal means that either

A) OP is a troll or
B) OP has no idea about car setup

If that makes me an elitest then goddamn, elitism FTW!

Anes is now on a three day holiday from GT Planet, issued because of an inability to debate with other members without insults and/or 'troll' comments.

All members should take note that we do not tolerate attacks on other members in any way, shape or form.

Remember, discuss the point, don't attack the person. If its a concept that is too much for you to accept, then simply put GT Planet is not the place for you.


Scaff

 

[vrooom]

To all the people saying that PS3 is not powerful enough to allow tire pressure adjustment have in mind that Need for Speed Shift allows tire preasure adjustments and it has a PS3 version:

The lack of tire pressure adjustments in GT5 may hide the fact that the tire simulation in GT5 is completely different from other sims. Tire simulation is the most difficult thing to simulate in a car racing game (check this interesting article from iRacing).

Polyphony Digital simulates 9 different compounds and if we count dirt, snow and rain tires we have a staggering 14 different tire types (!) but unfortunately no support for tire pressure or tire deformation which is very strange for a game called "the real driving simulation".

That's why I think that their simulation model is archaic compared to other developers and they try to make up for it by collecting a lot of testing/empirical data by testing cars. That would explain their glacial development pace and the fact some cars in GT5 handle great while others (almost all standard cars) handle like they came straight from PS1.

By the way, I really like GT5 and I am having great fun even with all it's flaws. I like it more than GT4 (which honestly I think was an awful sim) because the handling feels precise and realistic. And just because I criticize it doesn't mean I am not enjoying, I criticize it because it has so much potential and it could have been so much better.

 

[Hurtbag]

I think the selection of tire's is fine and there is no need for tire pressuring. I think more people need to spend some time with that big bright yellow thing outside.

 

[Ardius]

With all do respect I don't think you people are being very realistic. The PS3 is almost 5 years old, I'm sure Kaz has tried his best to incorporate as much as possible to make this game work. I don't think anyone here has a clue about how complicated it is to develop a game on the PS3, especially given the fact that the PS2 was 100X simpler to work with and that they have never developed a game of this size before.

If anyone here has played MGS4 I'm sure you know about the inconsistencies with that too.. The director Hideo Kojima ended up making the same mistake that Kaz did; lies from Sony, large passionate vision and the key: he overestimated the capabilities of the PS3, period.

Its nothing to do with the PS3, its to do with their physics algorithms, which we would assume do account for tyre pressure, but only in a static form. Its a simply an alteration to their code for how tyres work thats needed (plus changing the interface).
I don't see how it affects the PS3's performance at all, its not some complicated lighting and graphics people are asking for. And many games already on the PS3 have tire pressure adjustment, such as F1:CE, F1 2010, NFS, etc.

I'd rather they give us back individual gear ratio changes though first, plus the ability to upgrade the brakes for non-race cars.
There are loads of things missing from the tuning section of this game. Such as ballast adjustment, fuel load, turbo boost adjustment, etc.

This is not "whining", this is legitimate complaints about the array of tuning options available. These things should be in the game.

 

[JJ72]

With all do respect I don't think you people are being very realistic. The PS3 is almost 5 years old, I'm sure Kaz has tried his best to incorporate as much as possible to make this game work. I don't think anyone here has a clue about how complicated it is to develop a game on the PS3, especially given the fact that the PS2 was 100X simpler to work with and that they have never developed a game of this size before.

8 years ago when I race on F12002, there was tire pressure.

And that was on a Pentium III, go figure.

Yeah keep defend PD if you will, it will just kill the franchise due to lack of innovation and ignorance to the fact that the competition has moved on, have fun enjoying GT6 which probably won't feature toe adjustment because "only 1% of the users care"

 

[JeffKill]

Great, a thread complaining about others complaining. How is this not locked yet? Do the mods enjoy seeing people bicker over things to no end? I just don't see the point in locking some threads, but leaving pointless crap like this open. It isn't a discussion, and IMO the title of this thread alone should be considered trolling. He's clearly on here to just start crap with people who have a different opinion than his own.

 

[Goudvis]

I feel they should include how humidity alters the way the car behaves on the track.

 

[Jashmid]

Why exactly? Tire pressures are one of the most important things in tuning a car to go fast around a track.

Not unless you have accurate track temperature and condition, exact weight of the car, detailed information of the compound and how it wears off and crap load of other info that cannot and will not be implemented in GT. Not with PD's current pace of improvements.

 

[speedy_2]

Tire pressure would be nice. But I think buying different sized tires would be more interesting. Different widths would really be nice. Changing wheel/tire sizes.

 

[tinram]

GT5 should have tire pressure setting because Shift has it.

 

[IBOWMANI]

GT5 should have tire pressure setting because Shift has it.

haha nice!

 

[IBOWMANI]

To all the people saying that PS3 is not powerful enough to allow tire pressure adjustment have in mind that Need for Speed Shift allows tire preasure adjustments and it has a PS3 version:

The lack of tire pressure adjustments in GT5 may hide the fact that the tire simulation in GT5 is completely different from other sims. Tire simulation is the most difficult thing to simulate in a car racing game (check this interesting article from iRacing).

Polyphony Digital simulates 9 different compounds and if we count dirt, snow and rain tires we have a staggering 14 different tire types (!) but unfortunately no support for tire pressure or tire deformation which is very strange for a game called "the real driving simulation".

That's why I think that their simulation model is archaic compared to other developers and they try to make up for it by collecting a lot of testing/empirical data by testing cars. That would explain their glacial development pace and the fact some cars in GT5 handle great while others (almost all standard cars) handle like they came straight from PS1.

By the way, I really like GT5 and I am having great fun even with all it's flaws. I like it more than GT4 (which honestly I think was an awful sim) because the handling feels precise and realistic. And just because I criticize it doesn't mean I am not enjoying, I criticize it because it has so much potential and it could have been so much better.

well said!

 

[SlipZtrEm]

While the OP had very little to actually bring to the table... there's some interesting discussion to be had in here. So... a thread title change, and I'm fine with this being open provided it stays on-topic and flame-free 👍

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Great, a thread complaining about others complaining. How is this not locked yet? Do the mods enjoy seeing people bicker over things to no end? I just don't see the point in locking some threads, but leaving pointless crap like this open. It isn't a discussion, and IMO the title of this thread alone should be considered trolling. He's clearly on here to just start crap with people who have a different opinion than his own.

All we need now to make this thread complete is someone to start complaining about people complaining about the mods does not lock threads where someone is complaining about other people complaining.

No matter how much we want GT5 or any other sim to be like RL or how much money we put in sim racing it will never be 100% like real racing. All sims will be a disappointment to the real thing.

 

[TakeshiSkunk]

I was disappointed they didn't add tire pressure with the new tire physics, but it's not game breaking for me.

Honestly I'd MUCH rather see asymmetrical suspension adjustment implemented before tire pressure is even considered. Going after some WRs on LFS taught me just how much time you can pick up with very track specific suspension setups, and they're almost always going to be asymmetrical. Makes tuning more exciting "OK if we adjust to pick up 5mph on the exit of this right corner will I still be able to hang on through the high speed left? "

I mean seriously, we have NASCAR and no asymmetrical suspension tuning...I'm certainly not an expert on the sport, but I know that no oval setup is going to be even on both sides.

Caster would be nice as well.

 

[m0rris]

When my citroen 2cv gets rear ended by some lunatic driving at 200 mph it doesn't explode and crumple but carries on driving. My B spec Bob doesn't turn up stinking of booze to races saying his racing career is over and that his wife has left him.

We bought this game because we wanted the ultimagte driving simulation, and IMHO, it did pretty well at that but it was never going to be perfect. Tyre pressure is, compared to individual gear ratios, comparatively minor. HOWEVER, its not like the absence of pressure changes has completely ruined the game. In the next game I am sure that there will be pressure changes as well as a whole host of other details, as for now, stop moaning and start racing.

m0rris