The Ultimate force feedback "Wheel Buyers Guide" for PS5, PS4, Xbox Series X and XBox One

Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by Soulfresh_ACV, Oct 5, 2014.

  1. skazz

    skazz

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    Edit... reading comprehension.

    The rumored GTS wheel is being discussed in a separate thread here:https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/thrustmaster-gran-turismo-sport-edition-wheel-thread.346309/ including a video. We know what it looks like but not price or specs. It could use the same internals as the new TS-PC Racer wheel https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/thrustmaster-ts-pc-racer-steering-wheel-for-pc.351307/ or something else, no confirmations yet.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016
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  2. wedjim

    wedjim

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    I got a refurbished wheelstandPro, for $164.95 and free shipping. I'll post a pic and review once I have it together and test it out.

    The G29 feels great to me so far, just messing with it on the table, lol. Of course I keep thinking about getting it for a good price. That helps.
     
  3. jamman39

    jamman39

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    I got the T3PA Pro's for $100 in the Best Buy sale! I'm learning how to use a clutch now, I've never driven stick before IRL. While I learn all my racing sims have become driving sims
     
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  4. wedjim

    wedjim

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    I tested it all out last night, G29 and WheelStandPro, saw the new seasonals and decided it was time to see.

    At first, the learning curve seemed daunting, I couldnt get my Lamborghini around the track without spinning out. It felt extremely difficult to control a slide and counter steer out of it. My best lap with it was finally. Gold at 1:19 after 5 laps with offs or donuts. I setup the controller and ran a 1:16.5, almost 3 seconds faster.

    Uh oh.

    A quick look at settings, power steering was off, changed it to on. Force feedback felt way too aggressive, at 5, dropped it to 1. Sensitivity I dropped to 3.

    I got Down to a 1:16.9, but no closer to my DS3 time so far.

    I might try dropping the wheel travel next, haven't even looked into the procedure yet.



    The WheelStandPro was a lot beefier and worked better than I thought it might by looking at it in pictures. It stays put on my wood floors.

    If anyone has any tuning or driving tips when switching, I'm all ears.
     
  5. PopPunkPoser

    PopPunkPoser

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    Is the Thrust Master T80 any good? It's on special for $99 CDN. I've only used a DS3 and would love a wheel.
     
  6. skazz

    skazz

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    T80 has a bungee cord and vibration function, but not any real force feedback.

    To be really brutally honest the lowest price point worth getting a PS4 wheel is the T150. If you buy a T80 you may potentially enjoy it more than the controller, but you will know you are missing out on actual force feedback and actually feeling what the car is doing, and probably regret it.

    Sorry :(
     
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  7. killerjimbag

    killerjimbag

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    No save your money.
     
  8. PopPunkPoser

    PopPunkPoser

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    Thanks for the info man.
     
  9. Soulfresh_ACV

    Soulfresh_ACV

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    I would agree with @skazz. Anything less than a Force feedback wheel (T150) won't be worthwhile. The price difference might still set you back twice as much as a T80 though.
     
  10. crooky369

    crooky369

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  11. wedjim

    wedjim

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    Still trying to dial in my G29, car is nearly undriveable in some cases, where it's no trouble with my DS3.

    If the car pitches more than a Few degrees, I'm doing a donut, no amount of skill can save a slide. For example, with my Elise in a QM last night my best time was 4:45 using the wheel set up, where with the DS3, 4:40.

    Be advised that if you choose the G29, there will be lots of downloading, tweaking and tuning to be the same speed.

    Off to search for wheel tuning tips...
     
  12. crooky369

    crooky369

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    1,690
    Which game are you referring to?

    Got my G29 earlier and it's almost exactly the same wheel as the G25. I'm using the same stand (WheelStandPro) with the same bolts and same mounting points as before. The only difference which keeps getting me stupidly reaching over is that the d-pad, menu buttons and a few more buttons in general are on the wheel not the shifter.

    Feels so much better to use a wheel on Assetto Corsa though. Done a 1:50 flat around Monza in the LaFerrari which actually felt quite quick unlike the jerky inconsistent efforts I was getting with using the controller.

    The McLaren P1 is utterly fantastic as well. As long as you don't do anything silly (or have the MGU-K regen set too high)it's almost impossible to crash yet seemingly impossibly fast for a road car.
     
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  13. skazz

    skazz

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    The thing is, consumer FFB wheels have a learning curve when it comes to holding slides, due to limitations in the torque they can offer.

    What you should know about the G29 and consumer wheels in general: Because of their limited motor power (compared to more expensive wheels), they are not always going to do what a real steering wheel would do. For example, when the car starts to oversteer what should happen is that the game simulates "self-aligning torque" where the front wheels maintain the direction of travel of the car and the steering wheel turns by itself. Unfortunately, this requires a lot of FFB motor torque. Consumer wheels in the <€1000 price class are unable to deliver enough torque, so they lag behind the game's intention for self-aligning torque. The only way to keep the front wheels pointed in the direction of travel with a G29 is to spin the wheel yourself, overriding the pure motor FFB to "help" the steering wheel to where it should be. More powerful consumer wheels (such as T300/500, Fanatec Clubsport) get closer to producing enough torque and require less "help". But only direct drive PC-only wheels really achieve the 10-15Nm of torque needed.

    The skill to saving slides with consumer FFB wheels comes with understanding from FFB and sound cues that the car is about to slide and taking action *BEFORE* the tyres completely lose grip. Then you have to learn that the best way to save a slide is to react immediately and decisively by helping the wheel to where it should be, combined with appropriate accelerator input.

    I suspect you are realizing that the car has lost grip too late. With a controller you can just stab opposite lock instantly. With a wheel it takes time to spin it even the 45-90 degrees you need to immediately correct a slide, so you are just arriving too late with your counter steer. The trick is to realize that you are too slow and too late with countersteer and to work at being quicker to realize and quicker to react.

    Back to the underlying simulation: If you are too slow with countersteer then you are effectively holding the front tyres at a different angle than the direction of momentum of the car. Guaranteed spin. So be quicker. I guarantee you it can be done even with the G29 :)
     
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  14. wedjim

    wedjim

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    Thanks guys, playing GT6 with the wheel is more fun, IF I can maintain the speed I'm used to and compete.

    The input is appreciated, I know its me and not the wheels fault, just wondering what direction to head next to speed up my learning curve.

    Driving a real race car is easier, btw. ;)
     
  15. Soulfresh_ACV

    Soulfresh_ACV

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    Re-do some of the GT6 license challenges and you'll improve in no time.
     
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  16. Schmiggz

    Schmiggz

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    Sadly, I learned today that, as today, Fanatec and PS4 are incompatible.
    I don't know for how long I was dreaming about changing all my gear to Fanatec and when the chance finally arises I get the following message from they're facebook oficial page:

    "Hello Miguel,
    Thank you for your enquiry.
    Unfortunately none of our products is currently compatible with PS4 in general. Only a few games work with our wheel.
    But we working on new hardware for PS4.
    Best regards
    Fanatec GameShop"
     
  17. skazz

    skazz

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    The expectation is a wheel base similar to CSL Elite releasing on PS4 in time for GT Sport.
    It will have competition from the new Thrustmaster GTS branded wheel, which is due to release at GT Sport launch and (based on guessing and extrapolating from the TS-PC wheelbase) might even outperform the CSL Elite.
     
  18. super_gt

    super_gt

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  19. Schmiggz

    Schmiggz

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    Thanks for the info, skazz :cheers:
     
  20. phil01457

    phil01457

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    hi I'm new to this I'm trying to find out how to make the g25 shifter work on the g290 there is something on here but the pics don't load
     
  21. Soulfresh_ACV

    Soulfresh_ACV

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    Amazon is currently selling this at bargain price at $299
     
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  22. calvins48

    calvins48 Premium

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    Was just about to post this! Always get great advice from the ISR guys!
     
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  23. Orayani

    Orayani

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    I'm truly shocked testing the dead zone watching the bars register with the T3PA pedals on the Thrustmaster app on the PC. My hard pieces of rubber kept failing so had to persevere with some thin plastic strips to find the engaging part in both accelerator and brake pedals. Must be close to 0.6 or .7cm on the brake and 0.8 or .9cm on the accelerator. Lost a bit of travel but what is worse, a huge deadzone or a lot of travel... I used to wonder when I was pushing the pedal and I ended up coasting.

    I don't mind the deadzone in the clutch since the clutches always has a relative small dead zone at the start and end with longer travel.

    Though the accelerator and brake travel is so short but can feel more control. I think by looking at the amount of deadzone in the accelerator it looks like just over a centimeter before it registered. Not sure if this is good or not as it doesn't have the same travel. The clutch sticks out further than the brake and accelerator pedals.

    This seems to be worse than the stock T300RS pedals I've read about or I have a dodgy set? Though how would I know?

    Or people aren't aware how bad the T3PA truly is?


    http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...ne-on-my-T300rs-pedals-any-better-on-the-T3PA


    http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/t3pa-brake-pedal-deadzone.127972/
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
  24. skazz

    skazz

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    Two comments on that:
    1. The dead zones have the benefit that spiking potentiometers (which happens to Logitech G wheels after a while) basically are not going to ever be an issue. For me this outweighs the fact that there's a deadzone at the start and end of travel, which I don't find to be a problem when actually driving.

    2. The Thrustmaster T.RJ12 USB adapter to convert TM pedals to become stand alone USB device (PC only) actually allows you to adjust the deadzone, and I took a screenshot to give you an idea of the benefit: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...pedal-set-thread.316480/page-10#post-11287102
    You can see from the raw values that my T500 pedals have about 10x larger deadzone than they need, but those pedals hadn't done many km. As time goes by you'd expect the potentiometers to wear and the required deadzone to be larger to compensate.

    Still, if you are on PC then a few euros on the T.RJ12 could be your answer. It's available via the TM webshop or Amazon.
     
  25. super_gt

    super_gt

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    I have T150 pedals which also have big dead zone in their stock version.Transferred the potentiometers to my DIY pedals which allowed me to remove the dead zone and already thirteen months after that there is no problem with calibration or spiking potentiometers.I had spiking potentiometers with my DFGT.
     
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  26. Orayani

    Orayani

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    I've only had the T3PA since October.
     
  27. skazz

    skazz

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    My point was for multi-year longevity. I'm not saying you'll get pot spiking this year or next. Just that TM is clearly building in protection against spiking after 3-4 years of use.

    It's a design choice on TM's part, and while I fully agree that they erred on the side of too large deadzones (if you look at my picture from the other thread you can see 102 steps out of 1024 on each of the deadzones, so basically 10% of the range at each end is deadzone by default), it's a legitimate choice to ensure that in many years of use the potentiometers are not going to cause the user any problems.

    If you don't like it, fair enough. That's your preference.
    In my case having used Logitech and Fanatec pedals before TM, I had no real issues adapting to the deadzones. But everyone is different.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
  28. Orayani

    Orayani

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    Should I keep these little stoppers in place that got rid of the start of the deadzone as it has certainly changed my driving. Finding more oversteer and better exit speed. Less understeer on entry where I had to use a lot less front brake bias to compensate.

    Even the very twitchy classic cars with severe weight transfer and super cars have become such a joy in control now. I used to dread the LaFerrari and RUF.

    Unless I keep them in place until this... Thought it was interesting what JBodin is up to.
    http://www.isrtv.com/forums/topic/23685-potentiometers-tx-t300-t500-t3pa-and-pro/

     
  29. super_gt

    super_gt

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  30. Orayani

    Orayani

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    Damn! Found a great deal for the Thrustmaster T3PA Pro 3 pedal set for £115.99, New. So thought I'd jump to order.