The Veyron's Bad Rap.

[Korza]

Erm...what did that have to do with the topic?

Read my earlier post.

 

[DLR]

The xj220 has less than 550hp (50hp more than half the veyron's power)and yet it's still capable of 210's up to maybe 220... That speed is normally only seen in 600+hp machines. There's your proof that power doesn't really mean as much as you say... The McLaren also has a relatively small amount of power (barely more than a corvette ZR1, who's top speed is only less than 210, maybe 205)

Yes, when you get to a certain speed, the amount of power required to go 1 mph faster increases exponentially because of the masses of atmospheric pressure.

 

[jagdrag77]

IMO, the Veyron is one of my favourite cars (Don't hate it), but different strokes for different folkes I guess. In GT5, pure stock, I find it pure heaven to drive, but a lot of people don't either. I'm just gonna say that it's a car in a video game, nothing more

 

[DDAAVVIIDD82]

The xj220 has less than 550hp (50hp more than half the veyron's power)and yet it's still capable of 210's up to maybe 220... That speed is normally only seen in 600+hp machines. There's your proof that power doesn't really mean as much as you say... The McLaren also has a relatively small amount of power (barely more than a corvette ZR1, who's top speed is only less than 210, maybe 205)

That's far from proof and I'm not the one that says power is as important as it is, you can point the blame at physics. What you oh-so-miserably failed to factor into your "proof" are the obvious differences in weight and drag coefficient of the cars mentioned. Give the Veyron the same power figures as the XJ220 without changing the shape or weight and see how fast it goes. I'll even let you make it RWD, even though the additional drive to the front wheels generates copious amounts of parasitic drag; and I'll let you do this because that's how confident I am of how much slower the car will end up traveling. At the same time, give the XJ220 the same power figures as the Veyron, also without changing the weight and shape, and adjust the gear ratios to make use of this new power and it'll travel substantially faster (until heat from friction and the rotational forces conspire to throw the tires from their respective wheels).

@Camaroyenko: I asked what it was, so it may not have anything to do with the topic but he was so kind as to answer me. What was your contribution?

 

[pjs123456789]

I think the veyron is a well made car. I did a test one time. I when like this, I took the top supercar in gt5 and had my best bspec drive race around the last race in supercar festival offline. The veyron was easily the fastest over car like mclaren f1, enzo, ford gt, the zonda 7.3 and a few others. A car that does 120mph with 150hp need close to 1200hp to get to 240mph. The formula for power needed to achive a certain speed goes something like this the ratio increase must be multiplied to the 3rd power. example 120% more speed would be 1.2*1.2*1.2 * the present horsepower.

 

[Famine]

That's far from proof and I'm not the one that says power is as important as it is, you can point the blame at physics. What you oh-so-miserably failed to factor into your "proof" are the obvious differences in weight and drag coefficient of the cars mentioned. Give the Veyron the same power figures as the XJ220 without changing the shape or weight and see how fast it goes. I'll even let you make it RWD, even though the additional drive to the front wheels generates copious amounts of parasitic drag; and I'll let you do this because that's how confident I am of how much slower the car will end up traveling. At the same time, give the XJ220 the same power figures as the Veyron, also without changing the weight and shape, and adjust the gear ratios to make use of this new power and it'll travel substantially faster (until heat from friction and the rotational forces conspire to throw the tires from their respective wheels).

@Camaroyenko: I asked what it was, so it may not have anything to do with the topic but he was so kind as to answer me. What was your contribution?

Just to give some mathematical proof to your post...

Power (at wheels) required to reach given speed:

([Weight (in lb) x 0.0135] + [Speed (in mph) x Speed (in mph) x CdA* x 0.00256]) x Speed (in mph)
375​

For the McLaren F1 this is:

([2500lb x 0.0135] + [240mph x 240mph x 5.61 x 0.00256]) x 240mph
375​

= (33.75 + 827.23) x 240/375
= 551hp

This is about 13% lower than the crank figure of 627hp, which is within normal range for drivetrain losses.

Gordon Murray believed that the McLaren F1 could reach the Veyron's top speed of 253mph with just 740hp. Now, as it happens, it's really easy to go from a known power required for a known speed to another:

Percentage increase in speed ^ 3 = Required percentage increase in power.

253/240mph = 5.4% increase in speed
1.054 ^ 3 = 1.171 = 17.1% increase in power
627hp x 1.171 = 734hp

We'll call that close enough!


Incidentally, for the Veyron,

([4160lb x 0.0135] + [253mph x 253mph x 8.02 x 0.00256]) x 253mph
375​

= (56.16 + 1314.18) x 253/375
= 924hp

This is only about 8% lower than the crank figure of 1006hp (1001PS was just a publicity figure - it's really beyond that), which is well outside the normal range for drivetrain losses on a 4WD car, however the Veyron has a specific top speed mode which reduces the ride height and trims the wing - both of which reduce the CdA. I just quickly calculated what running the car 2 inches lower and exposing less of the wing would do and I came back with a figure of 841hp - 20% lower than the crank figure of 1006hp and within normal range for a 4WD car. Possibly a bit high for an over-engineered one, but that was a quick guess figure.

If the Veyron ran the same power as the McLaren F1 - 627hp crank and 551hp wheel - it'd only be able to run to:

1006/627 = 1.604 = 60.4% reduction in power
Cube root of 1.604 = 1.171 = 17.1% reduction in speed
253mph / 1.171 = 216mph


*Or multiply the coefficient of drag by the frontal area in square feet.

 

[DDAAVVIIDD82]

Well said. Very well said.

 

[D00msday]

The Veyron can be a helluva beast if tuned right. It's one of my favorite cars to use now.

 

[DDAAVVIIDD82]

I've had some luck with it on SS tires, haven't been able to get anywhere near the same kind of responsiveness while using SH though.

 

[sailworksman]

Why does the Veyron get such a bad rap? It's understandable in drag racing because of it's insane speeds and maybe even during racing online, but I was in a room just cruising around in a stock Veyron, just testing it out since I fully tuned my other one, and the host began yelling at me and called me the "Dumb *** in a Gayron" and kicked me. I mean I wasn't even doing anything. So why is the Veyron so antagonized?

Normaly bro, people can't drive it. It turns like a school bus and most people who are in it, run others off the road. It can be tuned to turn (and stop, lol) and if people drive civilized, its fun and competitive. If you do tune it, it will smoke the competition. That's why people give others the boot.

 

[Aaronrray]

That's far from proof and I'm not the one that says power is as important as it is, you can point the blame at physics. What you oh-so-miserably failed to factor into your "proof" are the obvious differences in weight and drag coefficient of the cars mentioned. Give the Veyron the same power figures as the XJ220 without changing the shape or weight and see how fast it goes. I'll even let you make it RWD, even though the additional drive to the front wheels generates copious amounts of parasitic drag; and I'll let you do this because that's how confident I am of how much slower the car will end up traveling. At the same time, give the XJ220 the same power figures as the Veyron, also without changing the weight and shape, and adjust the gear ratios to make use of this new power and it'll travel substantially faster (until heat from friction and the rotational forces conspire to throw the tires from their respective wheels).

@Camaroyenko: I asked what it was, so it may not have anything to do with the topic but he was so kind as to answer me. What was your contribution?

My point is that good aerodynamics can easily reduce need for power... Aerodynamically, the xj220 is way slicker than the veyron, so it doesn't need as much horsepower as the veyron to go fast. If you were to make the veyron in the shape of an xj220, you may be seeing speeds of 265-270 or more from a stock veyron's power (I'm taking into account the increased drag from higher speed)

 

[Famine]

My point is that good aerodynamics can easily reduce need for power... Aerodynamically, the xj220 is way slicker than the veyron, so it doesn't need as much horsepower as the veyron to go fast. If you were to make the veyron in the shape of an xj220, you may be seeing speeds of 265-270 or more from a stock veyron's power (I'm taking into account the increased drag from higher speed)

You can work it out.

The XJ220 has 542hp. 1006hp represents an increase of 85.6%. The cube root of 1.856 is 1.229, representing an increase in speed of 22.9%. 217mph multiplied by 1.229 is 266mph.

 

[symustafa1996]

+1
-The Veyron looks like an upside down bathtub
-The Veyron handles like a wet boulder
-The Veyron has a W16 . Overpowered
I can live with the rest of this, but what throws me over the edge is that its made by Volkswagen. Not a small, private supercar company, but a company who has any resource in the world at the tip of their fingers, plus the best engineers, materials, facilites, etc that money can buy. There is no beauty or majesty to go with this car like you would get from a Mclaren F1 or Ferrari (yes, I know Ferrari is owned by a larger company but they have a rich history and heritage.

Here you are wrong. Bugatti has a rich history and heritage too. It just stopped after 1952. Remember the Type 35 Grand Prix cars and the Type 57SC Atlantic? And the Royale? The Veyron is a technical excellence because it achieves something no one could dared try at that time. Look at the weight. Almost 2 tonnes! And full luxury at 256 mph. And it was being sold at a loss for VW. The car was made to prove what a company like VW can do. And this Bugatti is the first of VW's revived company.

 

[goukipau]

Just try to win the Real circuit Tours Nurburgring with a Veyron, believe me its possible, but hard, but then you learn how to really appreciate and know the car.

 

[Aaronrray]

You can work it out.

The XJ220 has 542hp. 1006hp represents an increase of 85.6%. The cube root of 1.856 is 1.229, representing an increase in speed of 22.9%. 217mph multiplied by 1.229 is 266mph.

That means better aerodynamics would save 200hp because the Veyron SS requires over 200 extra horsepower to achieve that same speed

 

[GTracer98]

Online is full with idiots

 

[LuxxusPrime]

I like the Veyron even though its ugly as ****. I just don't like that no other street car can touch it in the game, therefore it doesn't make sense to bring it out on the drag strip. I can't imagine feeling victorious in a "gods mobile" when us normal folk are busy tuning lower grade cars. At least it should be a few other cars to match its speed. I bet a CCX could do something.

 

[Endless-Wilso]

I find it hard to believe how many hate the veyron 1st on looks I think its a fantasticly elegant looking car (more from the rear it may not be sporty in looks bur more to the look of a Bentley "smooth and sophisticated". Truthfully it was designed to be to much at once luxery,GT car and hyper car which is why its kind of an oddball but theres plenty of uglier cars (for one i hate the Masarati Gran Turismo but i cant hate on it , 2nd it is a marvel of engineering and is a pinnacle of whats possable and anyone who dislikes it for what it is , i can tell you is NOT a real Automotive enthusiast .

I'd rather own a Mclaren F1 or even a GTR over a Veyron myself

I was just so disgusted over what was being said on a car site none the less i had to say somthing.

 

[thelvynau]

Alot of it might stem from ex tdu2 players sick of being knocked around by veryons

 

[dr3w]

Just to give some mathematical proof to your post...

Power (at wheels) required to reach given speed:

([Weight (in lb) x 0.0135] + [Speed (in mph) x Speed (in mph) x CdA* x 0.00256]) x Speed (in mph)
375​

For the McLaren F1 this is:

([2500lb x 0.0135] + [240mph x 240mph x 5.61 x 0.00256]) x 240mph
375​

= (33.75 + 827.23) x 240/375
= 551hp

This is about 13% lower than the crank figure of 627hp, which is within normal range for drivetrain losses.

Gordon Murray believed that the McLaren F1 could reach the Veyron's top speed of 253mph with just 740hp. Now, as it happens, it's really easy to go from a known power required for a known speed to another:

Percentage increase in speed ^ 3 = Required percentage increase in power.

253/240mph = 5.4% increase in speed
1.054 ^ 3 = 1.171 = 17.1% increase in power
627hp x 1.171 = 734hp

We'll call that close enough!


Incidentally, for the Veyron,

([4160lb x 0.0135] + [253mph x 253mph x 8.02 x 0.00256]) x 253mph
375​

= (56.16 + 1314.18) x 253/375
= 924hp

This is only about 8% lower than the crank figure of 1006hp (1001PS was just a publicity figure - it's really beyond that), which is well outside the normal range for drivetrain losses on a 4WD car, however the Veyron has a specific top speed mode which reduces the ride height and trims the wing - both of which reduce the CdA. I just quickly calculated what running the car 2 inches lower and exposing less of the wing would do and I came back with a figure of 841hp - 20% lower than the crank figure of 1006hp and within normal range for a 4WD car. Possibly a bit high for an over-engineered one, but that was a quick guess figure.

If the Veyron ran the same power as the McLaren F1 - 627hp crank and 551hp wheel - it'd only be able to run to:

1006/627 = 1.604 = 60.4% reduction in power
Cube root of 1.604 = 1.171 = 17.1% reduction in speed
253mph / 1.171 = 216mph


*Or multiply the coefficient of drag by the frontal area in square feet.

So according to James May's calculation The McLaren F1 would be able to reach the same speed as the Veyron, has anyone tried this? I'm currently on vacation so I couldn't try it

 

[symustafa1996]

Yet it weights almost two tons. What a failure. Everyone can make a car go that fast, by putting a ridicules amount of power into it. Nothing special in going that fast, when you put an obscene amount of power into it. And there's nothing innovative about it's design.

Such an unwise comment. It's very hard to make the car go fast, because of wind resistance. That's why it need a lot of power. And making tires that can last at that speeds, good aerodynamics, great build quality, so the car doesn't come apart at high speeds, calculate fuel and air intake and many more. All that with a ton of luxury, such as radio, full air conditioning and heated seats. If you put 1000hp in a Golf, it would fly and disintegrate when it reaches high speed.

 

[dr3w]

Such an unwise comment. It's very hard to make the car go fast, because of wind resistance. That's why it need a lot of power. And making tires that can last at that speeds, good aerodynamics, great build quality, so the car doesn't come apart at high speeds, calculate fuel and air intake and many more. All that with a ton of luxury, such as radio, full air conditioning and heated seats. If you put 1000hp in a Golf, it would fly and disintegrate when it reaches high speed.

I agree with you, that car is meant to be a luxury grand tourer that happens to be able to go very fast. It's not a stripped out racer. And yet with all the excess weight the car can do 404kph without feeling like the whole car is disintegrating is a marvel of engineering

 

[Eric W]

I don't dislike the Veyron but I also don't allow people to use it oftenly simply because it is in a class of its own similar to the X1. Granted, I have cars that will keep pace with the Veyron but only in the draft. If the draft is lost then there is simply no chance in catching it.

In my rooms Veyrons are only allowed if we are racing only Veyrons.

 

[Toyinster]

Veyron rocks - I have only used it a few times to see how it handles and I thought the handling wasn't great compared to say a GTR or any other fast Japanese creation in stock form, but acceleration and top speed are epic for a road car.

I do like watching the Veyron's spoiler deploy, retract and act as a wind break on replays...we have to respect it as part of automative history.

 

[dr3w]

The handling is definitely not its most powerful feature but I like to drive the Veyron just for the surge of power

 

[DoomtrainUK]

Yes it's fast yes the technology is impressive but it looks like a wichity grub

 

[DoomtrainUK]

How can you say the Veyron is not an aerodynamic car? lol LOOK AT IT. There are no sharp or abrupt corners. Advanced computer systems open and close flaps as well as control the ride height to maintain maximum stability.

You can put 10,000 hp in a car, but without the right chassis, its rubbish.

Yes, the same computers that fly F-16s and F-22s. That's why it's a massive technical achievement!

Now don't get me wrong, I am not a Veyron lover. I would choose a McLaren F1 over it any day. But when people refuse to see what a magnificent car it is, it gets me all roweled up

Lucky we have an aviation enthusiast here, i can assure you the veyron does not share technology with a multi million dollar. 5th generation fighter/ fighter bomber military aircraft, who the hell told you that?

 

[McClarenDesign]

Such an unwise comment. It's very hard to make the car go fast, because of wind resistance. That's why it need a lot of power. And making tires that can last at that speeds, good aerodynamics, great build quality, so the car doesn't come apart at high speeds, calculate fuel and air intake and many more. All that with a ton of luxury, such as radio, full air conditioning and heated seats. If you put 1000hp in a Golf, it would fly and disintegrate when it reaches high speed.

James May described it the best. Driving 200 mph is like asking a car to drive through whipped cream. At 250, it's more like a fruitcake. Phenominal technical acheivement, I don't care what anyone says.

I love it, and you should too.

 

[Eric W]

The Veyron is a marvel and I have nothing against it. But it should only be raced with other Veyrons.

 

[Crushed]

I don't understand why people don't like a car cause its fast. I love the veyron. Im not gonna use it to beat everyone online but its an awesome car and you know... trollers gonna troll, haters gonna hate!