The Words of the Winds are Now all Clear

[Sele1981]

Yesterday i played GTA IV again after a long time ago... and then i thought "damn the damage is very good" and i thought that GTA IV is not a car simulation game or a car game and it has anyway very good damage...

You can also blow of your tires if you hold the handbrake and make some donuts...

It´s curios for me why GT4 had no damage because it´s a "only car" game... hope we see that all in GT5.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Because the engine structure is different and also comparing GTA IV with GT4....

 

[Boffin]

Yesterday i played GTA IV again after a long time ago... and then i thought "damn the damage is very good" and i thought that GTA IV is not a car simulation game or a car game and it has anyway very good damage...

You can also blow of your tires if you hold the handbrake and make some donuts...

It´s curios for me why GT4 had no damage because it´s a "only car" game... hope we see that all in GT5.

If you look closley at a pristine car on GTA4, you can see that there are some imperfections that allow for much better damage. They appear commonly throughout every car and these imperfections are just not acceptable on GT5's cars. Not after GT5P

 

[G.T.Ace]

Not only that, GTA4 uses the third party Euphoria engine for damage etc. which i doubt is compatible with anything PD does.

 

[Qronicle]

And of course there aren't any licensed cars in GTA IV.

@G.T.Ace: Isn't Euphoria used for characters only? I thought it made the AI do stuff like trying to balance when they are hit, grab a rail when they fall etc.

 

[G.T.Ace]

No Euphoria also lets materials behave like there real life counterparts, like bending metal etc. but it can also be used for characters to create a virtual skeleton and muscles.

At least thats what ive read.

 

[Kingdizzi]

PD have obviously made their own engine for the game, to add damage the engine will have to be modified (unless it has already been done). I just don't see damage happening with Yamaichi wanting it to be realistic and Ferrari saying no. It will be freaky is some cars have damage and come cars do not.

I personally could not care less for damage and would rather PD spent the time polishing the game and maybe releasing the game before I have grandchildren.

PD is a first party but I would love for it to come to PC, my gaming rig + GT5 = I don't think the hint amar posted is for GT5 on PC, GT portable makes more sense on context.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Yesterday i played GTA IV again after a long time ago... and then i thought "damn the damage is very good" and i thought that GTA IV is not a car simulation game or a car game and it has anyway very good damage...

You can also blow of your tires if you hold the handbrake and make some donuts...

It´s curios for me why GT4 had no damage because it´s a "only car" game... hope we see that all in GT5.

As Qronicle said... there are no licensed cars in GTAIV... which is also why they don't look exactly like the real things, nor do they have the same names as the real things.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Not to mention that the cars havent even half the polygon count compared to GT5P.

 

[Sele1981]

I know that the cars in GTAIV has no license.And i don´t compare GTAIV with GT5...
I only mean even that game has damage...

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

I know that the cars in GTAIV has no license.And i don´t compare GTAIV with GT5...
I only mean even that game has damage...

But the point, which has been discussed countless times over the last several years, is that games that do not use licensed cars (like GTAIV) can do what ever they like, including adding damage. Games that use licensed cars (like GT) are limited by the contractual agreement they have with each company or person that grants them a license to use their car(s)... which based on what we know, some do not allow for damage effects.

Thus is the answer to your question:

It´s curios for me why GT4 had no damage

 

[Cocomoto]

So, guys, in the Kingdizzi's post he told about a source who between others things, that GT5 will have rally tracks.

Then i started to think about one thing;
In GT5P, when you go out of the track, a boring... i don't know, feature ? A boring feature appears, it's like a traction control for all kind of off road terrains that you can't turn off.
In GT4, when you go out of the track, this “feature” dont appear, and if you keep on the grass, it's looks like you are driving in a rally track (on the wheels feedback, at least).

I hope they turn off this “feature” for ever in GT5, because it isn't quite realistic.
So, how do you guys think PD will do ? Turn it off ?
I'm not a especialist, but, if this “feature” is keeped, the game engine, when you are in a rally track, will “think” that you get out of the track and will turn on the “traction control” .
For shure it isn't a problem for PD, but i'm just curious how they will handle it. =p

 

[Dave A]

No, that's be relatively easy to get right. In the game the track is defined like a path that the computer reads, the game will recognise you as being on the track if you are on the path regardless of what virtual road surface they have applyed to it. It doesn't view the layout of a track by the surfaces applyed in game, only by the path set for each track. Things can and are applied to each virtual surface such as different grip levels, penalty warnings etc, but it's easy to get the game to differentite betweent a surfce that's on the track path and one that's off it when penalties and automatic driver aids etc are concerned.

That said, I can't recall experiencing what you are alking about here. The cars feel fine when the go off road imo.

 

[Cocomoto]

Sorry if i wasn't clear(my english don't help), let me try to explain:

Get a car and go to a track you like, put your car on the grass and stop it, try to accelerate and keep your way trought the grass. If you look at the acceleration bar, you will notice that two bar appears.
One bar is red, that is how much you're pushing the gas pedal.
The other is white, that is the truly power who is getting out of the engine to wheels.
This “traction control” prevent the wheels to spin (duh !1!) on the grass and make the car easier to control out of the track.

When you're racing and just touch or make a little travel on the grass at a good speed, the cars feels great on Pro physics, but when you spin out and have to stop, it looks strange when you try to put your car back to the track whit this “feature”, just that.

And can't wait until E3 and see Sony blowing everything away whit GT5 annoucment. *-*

 

[FoolKiller]

What kind of hell would one have to endure to secure a platinum trophy I wonder?

Platinum trophies are only ever completed for getting all other trophies in the game (disc-based or very large PSN games only). It is just an award for completing trophies 100%. So, a platinum in GT5 would be no worse than in any other game, and some of those games have things that are much harder than completing a GT career mode.

If you think having damage will prevent the idiots from bashing you online then think again because if anything it spurs them on even more.

Let's look at my post again, shall we?

i said in GT Mode.. not in Arcade or Online modes where of course i want this option. what would be the point of having the damage if you could turn it off ic carreer?

Bronze trophy for completing career mode, Gold trophy for completing career mode with full damage on.

Done. Men and boys are separated and we know who can actually win without bumping cars around all the time.

See the part I highlighted? I was not talking about online, but thanks for taking the opportunity to find a way to rant about online behavior. That's a really fresh take and I haven't heard that before. Could you please elaborate on just how bad the punters are? [/sarcasm]


But to address your point, I have also said that if they have damage I want DNFs. If a punter knocks himself out of the race within a few seconds he won't likely be doing it often, and it will probably be a much more behaved scene like F1:CE has.

 

[semilife]

Whoa Dude I think you are writing for the wrong site here, perhaps a philosophy site???

Mmmmmm philoooosophy!!!!

 

[Tenacious D]

Could you please elaborate on just how bad the punters are?

I could share my Forza 2 experiences. Half the racers are pretty bad. It's not the few tards that intentionally ruin races, which does happen, but people who just plain lack skill. I thought racing on the Nurb would be fairly safe, since it's such a long race, but no. Rear ended, or slamming into people in front of me who wreck and block the track, some wrecking intentional because they can't stand to be one place down and can't win it cleanly. I found out that a good number of open servers lacked damage a couple of years ago. It's possible that the rammers have thinned out, but I'm not in the mood to give Forza a shot any more to find out.

After some time in Prologue, early on in the Japanese servers, there were about a quarter to a third who lacked the maturity to race properly, and I'm guessing that's what GT5 is going to bring to the table, at least initially. Having gone back and tried a few races within the last four months, at least on American servers, the racing was quite polite. Still, I think private servers and league/team/club racing is the only way to go, and if GT5 has damage, I bet a good deal of public servers have it off..

 

[RedBaron]

If you think having damage will prevent the idiots from bashing you online then think again because if anything it spurs them on even more.

I don't think so. It's too many settings and waitings for them to crash in the first corner and to have few seconds of fun. They will just fall off.

Yesterday i played GTA IV again after a long time ago... and then i thought "damn the damage is very good" and i thought that GTA IV is not a car simulation game or a car game and it has anyway very good damage...

You can also blow of your tires if you hold the handbrake and make some donuts...

It´s curios for me why GT4 had no damage because it´s a "only car" game... hope we see that all in GT5.

Because the engine structure is different and also comparing GTA IV with GT4....

Yes, you mean that GTA4 is much more complex game and world than GT which is only driving game and even so they have damage in GTA.

 

[Nomino]

I don't think so. It's too many settings and waitings for them to crash in the first corner and to have few seconds of fun. They will just fall off.

You think wrong. The number of plebs out there far outnumber those who want to race seriously, so just because one can't be bothered to hang around, it doesn't mean a fresh pleb is already waiting in the wings.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

I could share my Forza 2 experiences. Half the racers are pretty bad. It's not the few tards that intentionally ruin races, which does happen, but people who just plain lack skill. I thought racing on the Nurb would be fairly safe, since it's such a long race, but no. Rear ended, or slamming into people in front of me who wreck and block the track, some wrecking intentional because they can't stand to be one place down and can't win it cleanly. I found out that a good number of open servers lacked damage a couple of years ago. It's possible that the rammers have thinned out, but I'm not in the mood to give Forza a shot any more to find out.

..

My bad experiences have come from Forza 2.

I have lost count how many times my race has finished on the 1st bend of the 1st lap due to being rammed off the track and my car being completely undriveable. Furthermore it isn't just the idiots who cause this but those who have different racing abilities. For example if I race against my friends I know they have a similiar driving ability to me so I know the braking points/racing line they use is the same as mine. However when racing against strangers what I would often find is they would sometimes brake way too early for a bend and because im not expecting this I would end up ramming into the back of them. This is why its difficult to have realistic racing online because if you watch a F1 race all drivers have similiar braking points/racing line but in a video game the abilities of players varies hugely.

I suppose I shouldn't use my experiences on Forza 2 for GT5 because the tracks never helped on that game due to being narrow i.e Sebring club. However everyone assumes collisions are caused by dirty racers and whilst this is true the most frequent cause of collisions are different abilities. I suppose the answer is to remain a safe distance before a bend to take this into account but then you will struggle to win a race.

Personally I hope PD turn there attention to the online features rather than damage i.e huge number of scoreboards like FM2 with rolling leaderboards.

 

[Sele1981]

I don't think so. It's too many settings and waitings for them to crash in the first corner and to have few seconds of fun. They will just fall off.



Yes, you mean that GTA4 is much more complex game and world than GT which is only driving game and even so they have damage in GTA.

Exactly! Finaly we got somebody who understands what i mean 👍

 

[G.T.Ace]

Everybody understood what you mean, but its still wrong.
GTA isnt more complex, the cars in GTA are far from being as detailed as a car in Gran Turismo, the physics are not that detailed, they use third party physics software in GTAIV and so on.

Do you know how hard it would be to implement a damage model similar to GTAs in a game with 200.000 polygon car models? It wouldnt work, its too glitchy, needs too many system power and would take too long to program (you need to give every material and surface its own damage abilities).

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Exactly! Finaly we got somebody who understands what i mean 👍

Complexity has very little to do with it, or did you not understand the following response to your original question:

I know that the cars in GTAIV has no license.And i don´t compare GTAIV with GT5...
I only mean even that game has damage...

But the point, which has been discussed countless times over the last several years [and confirmed by Kaz himself], is that games that do not use licensed cars (like GTAIV) can do what ever they like, including adding damage. Games that use licensed cars (like GT) are limited by the contractual agreement they have with each company or person that grants them a license to use their car(s)... which based on what we know, some do not allow for damage effects.

Thus is the answer to your question:

It´s curios for me why GT4 had no damage

You say you understand that GTAIV doesn't have any licensed cars, so why then are you still wondering why GT4, or for that matter GT5 had no damage?

 

[TofuStoreDrift]

How exactly did this turn into another damage thread?

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

How exactly did this turn into another damage thread?

Answer.

 

[kikie]

How exactly did this turn into another damage thread?

It seems that damage is much more important than we thought.

 

[Sele1981]

Ok my last post about damage

You say you understand that GTAIV doesn't have any licensed cars, so why then are you still wondering why GT4, or for that matter GT5 had no damage?

So we can start again with the discussion "why do have all the other games have damage with original licensed cars". The best example is Forza 2... Lambos,Ferraris,Porsches,BMWs... every car is damageable... even if the damage isn´t good,thats not the point...

And then we start again "they got other conditions with the car manufacterers than PD" or "they spent more money to get damage" and so on...

So we better stop discussing that damage stuff...

And GT ACE,that thing with the polygons sounds logical... I understand what you mean... I don´t think about that when I post the thing about GTAIV...

Damage will be nice in GT5 but i will buy it anyway if we get no damage... my problem was why it´s for PD so hard to implement damage in the best selling racing game "sim" in the world... but there are different answers... the only truth answer knows PD...

And sorry for my english...

 

[FoolKiller]

How exactly did this turn into another damage thread?

Because there is some rule of inevitability that states that any thread dealing with the Gran Turismo series will bring this up again, and again, and again, and again.

 

[mafia_boy]

Which is why I asked about 4 pages back can we just report the people who CONSISTENTLY bring every single thread about GT5 back to the same old question......

"Will we have damage in GT5??"

To those people, you've already got your own threads asking about damage, so shut it already or go whinge about it in those threads!! I'm more inclined to find out what cars are going to be in it first rather than whether said cars will have damage or not!!

 

[L_Hamilton]

Which is why I asked about 4 pages back can we just report the people who CONSISTENTLY bring every single thread about GT5 back to the same old question......

"Will we have damage in GT5??"

To those people, you've already got your own threads asking about damage, so shut it already or go whinge about it in those threads!! I'm more inclined to find out what cars are going to be in it first rather than whether said cars will have damage or not!!

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