The Words of the Winds are Now all Clear

[greenlightning]

I would speculate that the majority of racers in real world races have more DNF's due to mechanical damage verses having to drop out due to crash damage. Especially if you include DNF's caused by tire wear etc. Say a person flat spots his tires on breaking or simply blows a tire and possibly causing a crash. Overheating, gear box problems, electrical, and suspension problems all to far often result in racers having to drop out of the race. Mechanical would be great, along with a lot more tire damage options. However it would seem that this would be very hard to program especially if you want some variation or random elements. Sure running in the engine in the red to much or for to long or engine braking by dropping gears should put a tramendous strain on the motor and drive train. Running the curbs or slightly off track should cause increased tire and suspension damage. Sometime in GT4 my controller would come unplugged so it would be as if the motor just went. Now some times the gas/brake pedal becomes unplugged so the car just dies and coast. Frustrating but funny at the same time. Also you should be able to run out of fuel and just have to park it on the side of the track.

 

[Rusty*]

I'm sure Kaz was speaking hypothetically, with one possible caveat. It has been discussed here and there, the possibility that street cars might not have damage at release until negotiations are ironed out, if there are still unresolved issues. This would restrict damage to tuners, possibly, and race cars definitely. That would be really strange, but I could live with that. However, I'd have to contact the auto manufacturers and voice my displeasure with them, especially highlighting the current economic conditions, and threat of nationalization for American companies by Obama.

Yes, I would have to say that if my favourite manufacturer was being trivial and wouldn't let a game developer that is as incredibly successful Polyphony Digital add damage to the game, then I would have to remove them as my favourite.

I'd have to contact the auto manufacturers and voice my displeasure with them

lol, I would love to see that!👍
It is honestly rediculous that some manufacturer's are saying no *shakes head*, its uptight tools in management I reckon.
Peace,
Rusty*

 

[Jay]

Evan the all mighty Kazunori Yamauchi said that they are not half way done with the stuff he wants to put in GT games.. So yeah it's not perfect.. We need damage and weather effects before body kits..

Going by "Beyond the Apex" he said about 15% his vision so far.

 

[Kryz11]

Going by "Beyond the Apex" he said about 15% his vision so far.

Oh yeah Thanks. I was about to say quarter happy or something like that.. Forgot where I've seen it.

👍

 

[RacingFreak2k3]

Just curious with this discussion on damage. Many have mentioned taking mechanical damage over no damage at all, and I completely agree, and I would take mechanical over visual damage IF we couldn't have both. We'll see how it plays out.

I know manufacturers give developers trouble with implementing VISUAL damage in games and what not....so my question is:

Do you think manufacturers have as much of a say on how mechanical damage works in a game compared to visual damage, or is this something that is more up to the developer? If it doesn't have a licensing issue tied to it, there should be no problem implementing mechanical damage into GT5, of course, not including the issues with coding it correctly. What do you all think? Or has anyone heard of an encounter with something like this before?

 

[Jay]

Well when I think of mechanical damage that also includes destroyed clutches, transmissions, driveshafts, differentials etc. The damage due to hitting a wall and damaging suspension and steering so the car pulls to one side or handles worse is probably fairly easy to implement under the vehicle license. Altough I think having transmissions and clutches failing (or slipping) due to rough and abusive shifting may not be something car manufacturers want to include, for example I go and buy a STi and start flat shifting with it, I destroy the transmission over and over, this might give the impression that the STi is unreliable, which is something I imagine Subaru would want to avoid.

 

[Kryz11]

It's way way way easier to create Internal/Mechanical REALISTIC damage over Visual damage..

All it is is CODING.. and some ICONS on the screen to show you what is broken.. and just code how car should behave on what is broken.

Also that way Car companies would prefer not to have VISUAL damage and I think they would agree to just Mechanical damage if ONLY PD makes every car Internal damage behave in same way. Meaning Ford will be at same level with Mercedes benz in game.

 

[Mr P510]

This old chestnut just keeps going round and round.

Anyway if PD include damage,the first thing I"ll do is turn it off.
don't care,never did ,never will.

 

[Antti-san]

I understand what you mean, but there is a lot of real world mechanical damage that occurs without any noticeable visual damage... including DNFs without so much as a dent in the body work of a race car.

I know, I was just referring to mechanical damage that results from crashes. I wasn't referring to engine failures and the like, so it's good you brought that up!

So yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing damage to the gearbox/engine/etc if you abuse them too much during a race.

Regardless of that, I really can't understand why you would really want PD not to implement ANY damage if they can't do both. That really sounds like an example of cutting off your nose to spite the face.

I understand where you are coming from; I guess I'm just a hopeless perfectionist!

 

[Rash-182]

This old chestnut just keeps going round and round.

Anyway if PD include damage,the first thing I"ll do is turn it off.
don't care,never did ,never will.

well enjoy The Real Bumper Cars Simulator. i hope there will be no such option in the GT mode

 

[vaioleto]

well enjoy The Real Bumper Cars Simulator. i hope there will be no such option in the GT mode

GT and any other car game has always been a bumper simulator for noobs. Besides, why do you care how someone else plays their game?

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Besides, why do you care how someone else plays their game?

+1

I'm going to say it until the day I die... great games give players more options.... because not only do I not care if someone likes to play the same game differently than I, but there are times where I want to play a game differently myself.

That's the beauty of games like DiRT and F1:CE, in that they offer many different options and settings, so the game can be extremely challenging, or easy, you can have damage or no damage, or even different degrees of damage. You can change all sorts of different things. Options.... they can't be beat. 👍

 

[marky5244]

great games give players more options.... because not only do I not care if someone likes to play the same game differently than I, but there are times where I want to play a game differently myself.

I agree. Give us the options and we can decide whether to use the option or not. Take professional or standard physics in GT5P - I use both, depending on whether I'm using sixaxis or wheel and also whether I feel like playing a simulation or a game. If PD didn't give both options then GT5P would be a much less enjoyable game for me.

 

[Rash-182]

i said in GT Mode.. not in Arcade or Online modes where of course i want this option. what would be the point of having the damage if you could turn it off ic carreer?

 

[FoolKiller]

i said in GT Mode.. not in Arcade or Online modes where of course i want this option. what would be the point of having the damage if you could turn it off ic carreer?

Bronze trophy for completing career mode, Gold trophy for completing career mode with full damage on.

Done. Men and boys are separated and we know who can actually win without bumping cars around all the time.

 

[andrewyhy]

Bronze trophy for completing career mode, Gold trophy for completing career mode with full damage on.

Done. Men and boys are separated and we know who can actually win without bumping cars around all the time.

Nice suggestion. 👍

 

[ST-2]

I'll be honest, I'd much prefer better AI for the computer above damage and weather effects.

 

[Cocomoto]

So, i bought GT4, couldnt wait until GT5.
I never really played GT4, my PS2 was stoled 1 one week after i get GT4.
I notice that if you car height is too low, it touchs the ground and sparkles appear, it add so much to overall experience, a simple detail make so much diference.
So, do you guys think that GT5 will have sparkles comming out of too low cars ?
And change wheels or put wings ?

Really hope it have *-*

 

[thesuperfunk]

Bronze trophy for completing career mode, Gold trophy for completing career mode with full damage on.

Done. Men and boys are separated and we know who can actually win without bumping cars around all the time.

What kind of hell would one have to endure to secure a platinum trophy I wonder?

 

[ZANELE]

it seems like the winds have stop wispering or amar isn't hearing anything . whats going on amar ? let's hear another wind.

 

[Jay]

So, do you guys think that GT5 will have sparkles comming out of too low cars ?
And change wheels or put wings ?

Really hope it have *-*

Very very likely, GT5P is missing some of these effects like GT4P was missing them too.

 

[Cocomoto]

Jay V, i should ask for it too, but i forgot. Good that you remind it.
GT5P look so good that sometimes i think is impossible to have damage with this level of details and such stunning grafichs, even on the PS3.

But, who knows ?
I remember, it was around beginning of 2006, i took my GT4 and was talking with a friend, he was complaning about about GT dont have cockpit view, then i said:
“GT have too much cars, make then all with interior view must be too much work, its looks impossible to me”.
So now here we are, GT5 with cockpit view and 200,000 polygons... maybe a real damage system is possible, but as said before, the manufactors seens to be a problem.

 

[Watevaman]

So, i bought GT4, couldnt wait until GT5.
I never really played GT4, my PS2 was stoled 1 one week after i get GT4.
I notice that if you car height is too low, it touchs the ground and sparkles appear, it add so much to overall experience, a simple detail make so much diference.
So, do you guys think that GT5 will have sparkles comming out of too low cars ?

I sure hope so, because otherwise I'll have no clue why my car is going so slow, due to the fact that I use the cockpit view.

 

[andrewyhy]

So, i bought GT4, couldnt wait until GT5.
I never really played GT4, my PS2 was stoled 1 one week after i get GT4.
I notice that if you car height is too low, it touchs the ground and sparkles appear, it add so much to overall experience, a simple detail make so much diference.
So, do you guys think that GT5 will have sparkles comming out of too low cars ?
And change wheels or put wings ?

Really hope it have *-*

Yeah, you remind me about all those kinds of small details back in those days. 👍 Also the brake discs would glow under heavy braking of high speeds.
I miss car wash, oil changes, changing tyres by the animated pit crew in the pit stops and so...

 

[Tenacious D]

it seems like the winds have stop wispering or amar isn't hearing anything . whats going on amar ? let's hear another wind.

I just want to warn everyone once more about this. But with E3 a month away now, news might not be happening at all until The Big Show. Maybe no rumors, no winds, no feasts or snacks, no birds, no rumors, nothing. We might still get something, but you know the real good stuff we want to know is going to be saved for the Show. SONY needs some fireworks in case M$ pull$ $ome $hennanigan$ again. Dweeb$.

 

[Custer85]

I wouldnt be to afraid about Microsofts show at E3, they have a weak lineup so far, Gran Turismo 5 alone will do the trick. I Expect Microsoft to steal another exclusive from SONY, like FFXIII Versus, or something and thats all they will show, stolen exclusives and some weak 1st party games, or more exclusive DLC.

The moment PD shows the first ingame scenes from GT5 with damage people will go nuts.
The "rest" of SONYs show will be great aswell, but i only care for GT5 this time. My garage in GT5P is full, i won every event and online is not as good as it could have been. Racing against Renault Clios all the time is kind of boring aswell.
I need GT5 now!

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

.

Done. Men and boys are separated and we know who can actually win without bumping cars around all the time.

If you think having damage will prevent the idiots from bashing you online then think again because if anything it spurs them on even more.

Have to say in my experiences having damage is a mixed blessing. If your racing against friends you can trust then it isn't a problem but there is nothing more irritating than being taken out on the 1st bend on the 1st lap and finding yourself with the options of either quitting out or just parking your car till the race ends.

This is why I have mixed views on damage because I can guarantee that those who continue to complain about the lack of damage will be the first people on here moaning about being taken out. Obviously we want GT5 to be as real as possible but you have to take into account the idiots online and also the different skill levels of each driver because sometimes you get bashed for the simple reason that some people aren't very good at racing games. I can assure you that if I was hosting a room in GT5 and playing against strangers the first thing I would do is turn damage off.

 

[=ReBeL=]

If you think having damage will prevent the idiots from bashing you online then think again because if anything it spurs them on even more.

Have to say in my experiences having damage is a mixed blessing. If your racing against friends you can trust then it isn't a problem but there is nothing more irritating than being taken out on the 1st bend on the 1st lap and finding yourself with the options of either quitting out or just parking your car till the race ends.

This is why I have mixed views on damage because I can guarantee that those who continue to complain about the lack of damage will be the first people on here moaning about being taken out. Obviously we want GT5 to be as real as possible but you have to take into account the idiots online and also the different skill levels of each driver because sometimes you get bashed for the simple reason that some people aren't very good at racing games. I can assure you that if I was hosting a room in GT5 and playing against strangers the first thing I would do is turn damage off.

Yes, I agree with that. There will be carnage on 1st corner every time. The solution is simple though - offline = damage; online = no damage.

 

[Qronicle]

If you think having damage will prevent the idiots from bashing you online then think again because if anything it spurs them on even more

I don't think FoolKiller was talking about online damage. Just that when you turn off the damage in GT mode, you will only get a silver trophy instead of a gold one when you finish it.

And as many have stated before: damage will only 'work' in private rooms.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

If you think having damage will prevent the idiots from bashing you online then think again because if anything it spurs them on even more.

Have to say in my experiences having damage is a mixed blessing. If your racing against friends you can trust then it isn't a problem but there is nothing more irritating than being taken out on the 1st bend on the 1st lap and finding yourself with the options of either quitting out or just parking your car till the race ends.

This is why I have mixed views on damage because I can guarantee that those who continue to complain about the lack of damage will be the first people on here moaning about being taken out. Obviously we want GT5 to be as real as possible but you have to take into account the idiots online and also the different skill levels of each driver because sometimes you get bashed for the simple reason that some people aren't very good at racing games. I can assure you that if I was hosting a room in GT5 and playing against strangers the first thing I would do is turn damage off.

I have had a lot of experience playing online with damage while playing F1CE and can say my experience has not been as bad as yours. In fact, if I'm in a race with 'idiots' as you say, there are two easy solutions.

One is to let them lead out. If they are idiots they are going to take each other or themselves out... because of damage. Without damage they'll just continue being idiots and continue to disrupt a race (although I like how at least in GT5P, they become ghost cars if they become an obvious hazard... which is something I wish all racing games did).

The other is to just quit and start a new race with different opponents... no harm done, and only takes a few seconds.

Personally though I have had great success with the first option. 👍

That said, if players were getting DNFed because of reckless driving, I have little doubt it would be a better incentive to them to learn to drive better than if there was little consequences to cutting corners, riding walls, and using other cars to slow them down and make tighter turns.

SONY needs some fireworks in case M$ pull$ $ome $hennanigan$ again. Dweeb$.

I wouldnt be to afraid about Microsofts show at E3, they have a weak lineup so far, Gran Turismo 5 alone will do the trick. I Expect Microsoft to steal another exclusive from SONY, like FFXIII Versus, or something and thats all they will show, stolen exclusives and some weak 1st party games, or more exclusive DLC.

MS and Nintendo are going to have to do a lot more than that to reignite interest in their lineup of upcoming games...

Quite a change in fortune, ever given that the PS3 has been outselling (by a small margin) the Wii for the last few weeks.

Is it just me, or does it seem like the interest in the Wii may actually have already peaked?

Both Nintendo and Microsoft have largely been devoid of any significant amount of new exclusive high profile games for some time now.

In fact this came up in a recent discussion about available racing games, and compared to the 360 and Wii, the PS3 has a significant advantage.

In fact, I am still very surprised that after more than three years since the 360 launched, it's only had four distinct racing games, and with the exception of Race Pro (which has largely been criticized heavily, even by 360 fans and even the official 360 magazine gave it just a 50 out of 100), the others are all over a year old, and in the case of Forza 2, two years old next month.

On the other hand, the PS3 has released six high profile (7 if you want to count Initial D Extreme Stage), and very well received racing games in just two years time, and SuperCar Challenge and GT5 have not yet been released.

Over the last year, arguably the only noteworthy 360 titles were:

1. Halo Wars
2. Left 4 Dead
3. Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts
4. Gears of War 2
5. Fable II

By comparison, the number of released PS3 exclusive games has grown to over 140 titles, around 70 of which came out over the last year with some of the stand outs from last year being:

1. MLB 09: The Show
2. Killzone 2
3. Valkyria Chronicles
4. Resistance 2
5. MotorStorm: Pacific Rift
6. LittleBigPlanet
7. SOCOM: U.S. Navy SEALs Confrontation
8. NBA 09: The Inside
9. Buzz! Quiz TV
10. Ferrari Challenge Trofeo Pirelli
11. Disgaea 3: Absence of Justice
12. Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots
13. SingStar (vol. 1 & 2)
14. Gran Turismo 5 Prologue
15. Everybody's Golf: World Tour (Hot Shots Golf 5)

This doesn't even include some of the recent exclusive PSN gems like:

1. Rag Doll Kung Fu: Fists of Plastic
2. Burn Zombie Burn
3. Xi
4. Flower
5. Cuboid
6. Savage Moon
7. Lumines Supernova
8. Crash Commando
9. Astro Tripper
10. GTI Club+: Rally Côte d'Azur
11. Wipeout HD
12. PixelJunk Eden
13. The Last Guy
14. Elefunk
15. Echochrome

And while 2008 turned out to be a banner year for PS3 gamers, 2009 looks like it could be even better.

It started with a bang with the release of Killzone 2 and a home run with MLB09, and an already significant lineup of upcoming high profile games like:

1. inFamous
2. God of War III
3. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
4. Heavy Rain
5. SuperCar Challenge
6. Gran Turismo 5
7. Ratchet & Clank Future: A Crack in Time
8. Under Siege
9. EyePet
10. MAG: Massive Action Game
11. DC Universe Online
12. The Agency
13. Free Realms
14. Final Fantasy Versus XIII
15. Uncharted Waters Online
16. Angel Rings
17. Dark Cloud 3
18. METRO 2033: The Last Refuge
19. Quantum Theory
20. Redwood Falls
21. Undead Knights
22. The Wall
23. WarDevil: Unleash the Beast Within
24. Untitled Square Enix Next-Gen MMORPG
25. Untitled Kingdom Hearts RPG
26. Untitled Persona RPG
27. Untitled Steambot Chronicles 2 RPG
28. Untitled Twisted Metal

And then there are the following high profile games that have been released in Japan, and are supposedly going to be released here as well:

1. Cross Edge
2. White Knight Chronicles
3. Demon's Soul
4. National Geographic: Africa
5. Ryu Ga Gotoku 3 (Yakuza 3)

By comparison, there is hardly anything that has been announced for either the Wii or the 360.

In fact, the following article really took me by surprise:

• Top 5 Upcoming Xbox 360 Games of 2009

Halo 3: ODST
Batman: Arkham Asylum
Dragon Age: Origins
Mafia II
Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2

I'm surprised for two reasons:

1. Because all but one (Halo) of those games is a multi-platform title that is coming out for the PS3 at the same time... seems odd for a Top 5 list for upcoming 360 games.
   
   
2. Is Mafia II really a top 5 contender?

So basically what that said, is that the only exclusive game in the top 5 upcoming games for the 360, is an expansion of Halo 3???... the rest are all multi-platform releases that are available for PS3 as well.

Now maybe they left off Forza Motorsport 3 because they believe it isn't coming out until 2010, which may indeed be the case. However, I'm sure MS is trying to get it out before GT5, so that should definitely be on the list, but other than that the upcoming landscape of 360 games is fairly bleak at best.

I don't know about Nintendo, but I suspect some of the reasons the 360 has lost steam is the cancellation of several appearances at most of the major game conferences, the cancellation of the Halo MMO game and the closure of some of their first party developer studios like Ensemble Studios (Halo Wars, Age of Empires) and ACES (Flight Simulator series), as well as the closure of their Gamerscore Blog. They also laid of over 5,000 of their employees from their gaming division, including the head of their PC Gaming division following a massive management restructuring... and the RRoD and disc scratching problems are still an issue today, now it has a new problem with the E.74 issue.

I think all of this has put Microsoft and their Xbox division in a very difficult position in terms of being able to maintain it's early advantage of being the first next gen console.

Nintendo, while it is certainly been making a fortune from the amazing sales of the Wii, in terms of games the selection really isn't terribly impressive, and the trimmed down and or lower quality versions of multi-platform games for the Wii compared to the 360 and PS3 have certainly not helped things.

All the platforms certainly have many things that explain why they sell, but it seems the tides are changing fairly noticeably, and as far as game development and features (which at first many thought were unnecessary, like Blu-ray, Built-in WiFi, Bluetooth, cheap HDD upgrades, etc - but now many see as highly desirable features), the PS3 seems to be on the verge of making a noticeable jump ahead of the competition.


One thing is for certain, both Microsoft and Nintendo are really going to have to show up at E3 in a few weeks with a bunch of surprise announcements, or else they are basically giving up on 2009 as far as new content goes.

We should certainly be able to tell a year from now whether or not this is happening... and whether or not MS is willing and able to release a brand new console in order put behind them all the reliability problems they have had with the 360, the billions it's cost them so far, and to try and match or exceed the capabilities of the PS3 - either that or I wouldn't be entirely shocked if the 360 turns out to be the last console, and instead they focus more attention on their core business (which over the years they have lost sight of, and their OS and IP software has suffered for it) and away from hardware.