They made Sophy better! BOOST WEAK

[05XR8]

There is no setting that turns the boost (or rubberbanding rather) off.

Boost "off": AI go slower while you are behind.

Boost weak: AI go faster while you are ahead.

Boost strong: AI go slower while you are behind and go faster while you are ahead.

Boost Off

Just laughable. Which is why I never use Boost Strong.


Again, in my videos. Starting from last, SOPHY AI haven’t been going slower while I’m behind. Boost Weak, lead AI are setting laps two seconds faster than me. In my videos, AI are still keeping pace while I’m ahead.
The other Boost functions are backwards as we’ve been saying.

It may depend on the track I guess.

This is what some of us have noticed way back before SOPHY, in terms of AI performance varying track to track and obviously cars and set ups. SONY AI are even proving that difficulty with SOPHY training.
One of the most obvious is Bathurst. The infamous brake checking by normal AI at Reed to Sulman Parks. It’s nonexistent with SOPHY. If PD are messing with SOPHY why is SOPHY fine at Bathurst, but the PD AI not even upgraded?

It’s why I’m not disputing what ShiftingGears posted and @Nebuc72 I understand what you’re saying. Its discussion brought up in the Custom Race thread.

 

[eran0004]

Again, in my videos. Starting from last, SOPHY AI haven’t been going slower while I’m behind.

Again?

Try leaving a bigger gap to the AI, you should see the difference pretty clearly.

Unless of course they fixed the boost off setting at some point in the last few months.

 

[ShonnDaylee]

Unless of course they fixed the boost off setting at some point in the last few months.

They have not.

 

[05XR8]

Again?

Try leaving a bigger gap to the AI, you should see the difference pretty clearly.

Unless of course they fixed the boost off setting at some point in the last few months.

What ShonDaylee said.

Only Boost Weak works as intended to keep the racing more competitive. It’s not perfect, but better than Boost Off and Boost Strong.

 

[Voodoovaj]

This is what some of us have noticed way back before SOPHY, in terms of AI performance varying track to track and obviously cars and set ups. SONY AI are even proving that difficulty with SOPHY training.
One of the most obvious is Bathurst. The infamous brake checking by normal AI at Reed to Sulman Parks. It’s nonexistent with SOPHY. If PD are messing with SOPHY why is SOPHY fine at Bathurst, but the PD AI not even upgraded?

It’s why I’m not disputing what ShiftingGears posted and @Nebuc72 I understand what you’re saying. Its discussion brought up in the Custom Race thread.

To this I want to add that we all can physically SEE the issue with Sophy, and it should be an easy fix that hopefully comes someday.

On some corners, the curbing is seen as part of the track by Sophy and in some corners, it is not. I posted about Interlagos as an example in the Custom race thread. In T1 and T2, the curbing is fair game and Sophy uses ALL of it. However, in the latter half of the lap, Sophy avoids the curbs like the plague, which slows it down.

This is the reason it slows so much at Dragon Tail's chicane. The curbs are not part of it's track, and it never touches them. It could be that there is a technical reason for this, as it might need a buffer zone between on track and off track, but it can be made better, and probably will be.

Well, Miss Sophy can be quick, no doubt about this, but she still has a lot to learn!

1 lap, started last, boost weak, professional difficulty:

View attachment 1462037

And no, I didn't tune down her cars. It was a fair race.

Did you turn the boost setting to weak as instructed? I am going to go out on a limb as say that you absolutely did not, which is the the entire point of this thread. I'm going to have to see a video of this amazing 1 lap performance with a 1 minute lead over Sophy with Boost set to WEAK, while at the same time (no offense) setting a lap that is fairly pedestrian.

I say that because of this result by @05XR8 with boost set to weak

View attachment 1462110

Edit, I changed the name of the thread to include BOOST WEAK because that seems to be getting lost in the discussion.

The boost options are the same for both AI models (probably modifying the performance of the car rather than the skill of the AI), they are:

You haven't even tried it. I know this because of these comments

Boost off: Slow down while the player is behind.

Boost weak: Speed up while the player is ahead.

Boost strong: Both of the above.

Boost Strong doesn't do anything even REMOTELY close to what boost weak does, which is a clear indication that you are speaking from assumption, and not from experience, which is in no way helpful to this discussion.

Your statements are outright illogical.

Boost off: Slows down while player is behind...and then what? Does it "speed up" because:

Boost weak: Speeds up while player is ahead. Funny, then why is the car ahead of the player often setting fastest laps? What is it doing while the player is behind? I can tell you that it's kicking the player's a**

Boost strong: According to you, the AI should hover around you since it is both speeding up and slowing down, and yet, that's not even remotely the case in the game.

So please, contribute to the community in a constructive way. Go ACTUALLY try it and then make comment.

 

[Sir Crashalot]

Did you turn the boost setting to weak as instructed? I am going to go out on a limb as say that you absolutely did not, which is the the entire point of this thread. I'm going to have to see a video of this amazing 1 lap performance with a 1 minute lead over Sophy with Boost set to WEAK, while at the same time (no offense) setting a lap that is fairly pedestrian.

As already stated in my post, yes, boost was set to weak. I didn't save the replay, so no video sorry. And yeah, my lap was rather slow but as you can see there was no reason to drive faster🙂

 

[Voodoovaj]

As already stated in my post, yes, boost was set to weak. I didn't save the replay, so no video sorry. And yeah, my lap was rather slow but as you can see there was no reason to drive faster🙂

And somehow, @05XR8 finished 10th with a faster lap time and his Sophy was over 1 minute faster than you. I'm going to have to say that you set the boost incorrectly and that you are mistaken. It's an easy mistake to make.

 

[Meythia]

Only Boost Weak works as intended

That is a pretty bold and unverified statement.

It works in a way that makes the races more interesting - this topic concludes.
But as intended? Maayybee..

 

[Sir Crashalot]

And somehow, @05XR8 finished 10th with a faster lap time and his Sophy was over 1 minute faster than you. I'm going to have to say that you set the boost incorrectly and that you are mistaken. It's an easy mistake to make.

Nope, definitely no mistake. Boost weak & professional difficulty. And I can do it again. It's pointless 'cause I know I will win again but I'm bored anyway. Too late today but if you wish I can post a video tomorrow.

 

[ShonnDaylee]

This is getting spicy.

At the very least we're dissecting SOPHY (that sounds awful) and figuring out better ways to get the most out of the system. It's just too bad we have to jump through so many proverbial hoops to get what we want out of a race.

That part has been starting to get to me, as of late...

I spent quite a bit of time setting up a race recently, and just couldn't get a good race out of it. Due to the amount of time it took to set everything up (buying vehicles, setting them up, balancing their tunes, choosing liveries, setting up the race, etc...) I was so deflated, and just gave up and walked away. I'm sure I will figure something out with it, but that's not the point. It takes TOO LONG to set this stuff up. There should be more shortcuts in place to facilitate the use of features like this. As it is, it can be a bit of a chore sometimes.

 

[05XR8]

That is a pretty bold and unverified statement.

It works in a way that makes the races more interesting - this topic concludes.
But as intended? Maayybee..

It’s not a bold statement. My screen capture above reads at the bottom what is happening in my races. Boost Weak is working as intended.

Can’t see how that’s unverified when the Custom Race thread are full of proof. Guess you’re including everyone that have said the same as me. Are you?

Edit: Oh @ShonnDaylee its not spicy. It’s weak sauce.

 

[Voodoovaj]

What ShonDaylee said.

Only Boost Weak works as intended to keep the racing more competitive. It’s not perfect, but better than Boost Off and Boost Strong.

That is a pretty bold and unverified statement.

It works in a way that makes the races more interesting - this topic concludes.
But as intended? Maayybee..

I think what @05XR8 means is that the Boost Weak setting in Sophy is the only one that works to make things competitive and I have provided videos to back him up, also to shed light on this whole "rubber banding" issue.


I'm going to ask again that people not compare this to regular AI anymore, PLEASE!! regular AI is a cake walk. If you like it, fine, but watch below at what will happen if you down tune like you do for Reggie.

Now, it COULD be that Sophy knows your level of play, and it adjusts, so we all might get a different result. I am a Sport mode DR A+ and I have my S license for single player with gold in all license tests, and gold in all circuit experience tests. I am only saying that because it might make a difference (I don't know, but it might)

Again, short videos, but you get the point. I've done long races with similar results. Btw, these are all professional level Sophy AI setting.

Video 1 - NO BOOST - things are fine until the end of lap 1 and then I literally just drive past everyone.


Video 2 - BOOST STRONG - Sorry, I forgot to turn on the display for this, but you can still figure it out. I'm 3rd by the end of lap 1. Boost strong is consistently easier than no boost, which supports my suspicion that boost "strong" is actually going to deliver boost "none", and boost "none" is actually going to deliver boost "weak". Ergo, the boost "weak" setting would be delivering boost strong. It's incorrectly offset by 1 step.


Video 3 - BOOST WEAK - Same result as my earlier boost weak video. It's a fight to the end and I am still mid-pack. For reference, I did a 10 lapper after this and the result was the same. In terms of the rubber banding, what I experience is simply Sophy setting consistent laps. It was never faster than me over a single lap, but I feel like it could have put the hammer down if it wanted to (note, I remembered to turn on the display near the end)


Video 4 - BOOST WEAK -10PP - I wanted to simulate being a slower driver, so I dropped the PP to 540pp. I also placed myself 1st to start. The result speaks for itself. Sophy will beat you. However, you start to see that there's 3 groups. See the next video for more info.


Video 5 - BOOST WEAK -20pp - Here you can see the Sophy strategy at work. It breaks into three groups. The top 3, the top 5, and then the pack. If you can't hang with the top 3, you drop to the top 5. If you can't hang with the top 5, it's a feeding frenzy.


Now, if there was egregious rubber banding, as has been suggested, then my PP setting wouldn't matter. but it obviously does. It is "rubber banding" to a degree, but this is such an enjoyable amount, that I don't care. It feels like a person, and that's what matters to me.

Nope, definitely no mistake. Boost weak & professional difficulty. And I can do it again. It's pointless 'cause I know I will win again but I'm bored anyway. Too late today but if you wish I can post a video tomorrow.

No offense, and I'm not trying to be a jerk, but yes, I want to see what you're doing. Why? Because, setting a 10 minute lap in a GR4 Ferrari, with second place being over 1 minute behind is MASSIVE inconsistency with @05XR8. His time would have been just over 9 minutes (so 50 seconds faster than you) and his Sophy won the race with an 8:40 time, 1 minute and 9 seconds faster than you. So, if you are consistently beating Sophy on boost weak with times like that, I want to see how. It sheds light on what Sophy is doing.

 

[eran0004]

What ShonDaylee said.

Namely?

Only Boost Weak works as intended to keep the racing more competitive. It’s not perfect, but better than Boost Off and Boost Strong.

The stated intention of the boost is to allow slower cars to catch up. All of the boost options does some variant of that, but in different ways.

Boost weak is objectively the most difficult setting, but it wasn't intended to be, judging by the fact that boost off gives you the biggest credit reward.

 

[M Stark]

Boost "off": AI go slower while you are behind.

Boost weak: AI go faster while you are ahead.

Boost strong: AI go slower while you are behind and go faster while you are ahead.

Just from this description alone, boost weak and boost strong should swap names.

 

[Meythia]

Just from this description alone, boost weak and boost strong should swap names.

Depends on how you read it.
It does makes sense in how it is described, but it doesnt make sense in the context of the game and how the players anticipate the methods principle function (as your post shows).

 

[manou]

Now that's the part that completely turned me off. I only did it once when I set up a MX-5 Cup.
Buying 20 cars already takes some time because of the animation/sequence playing every time you buy a car.
Then you have to go to the tuning shop to buy tires and parts. Then go to car customization to create a livery. Please wait while the livery is saved. Apply this livery? Sure, please wait again.
Back to garage, choose next car and do it all over. 19 more times.
When you're finally done go to custom races and set up the grid. Change driver name. Change nationality. (Not for Sophy though, 'cause the nationality somehow is "Sophy".... another strange thing)
It takes forever and three days....

I just don't have the patience for this.

What I do is this process, but only 4 times. Then I balance the starting grid with those 4 cars, it's enough to make a grid with multiple different liveries.
I had fantastic fun setting up races like this with cars like the Escort Cosworth, tuned to ~250hp.
Also, the 4 cars I do setup, they all have small differences, some more torque, some less weight, some better aero, all around the same PP number.

 

[Sir Crashalot]

What I do is this process, but only 4 times. Then I balance the starting grid with those 4 cars, it's enough to make a grid with multiple different liveries.
I had fantastic fun setting up races like this with cars like the Escort Cosworth, tuned to ~250hp.
Also, the 4 cars I do setup, they all have small differences, some more torque, some less weight, some better aero, all around the same PP number.

I don't really get it. How do you set up a 20 car grid with those 4 cars?

 

[manou]

I don't really get it. How do you set up a 20 car grid with those 4 cars?

You select each car 5 times, and you randomize the grid.

 

[Sir Crashalot]

You select each car 5 times, and you randomize the grid.

Ah, ok, understand. But that means have 5x the same car with the same number. My inner Monk wouldn't be happy about this😄

No offense, and I'm not trying to be a jerk, but yes, I want to see what you're doing. Why? Because, setting a 10 minute lap in a GR4 Ferrari, with second place being over 1 minute behind is MASSIVE inconsistency with @05XR8. His time would have been just over 9 minutes (so 50 seconds faster than you) and his Sophy won the race with an 8:40 time, 1 minute and 9 seconds faster than you. So, if you are consistently beating Sophy on boost weak with times like that, I want to see how. It sheds light on what Sophy is doing.

Sorry again, I won't provide a video for this. The game made me angry once again by giving me car parts from 4* tickets for 3 days in a row, so I decided it's time for a break once again and so I just bought The Crew Motorfest.

But of course I will provide the solution to this riddle. It's quite easy and tbh I really thought you guys would figure it out from the screenshot and my statements.
It's just a race with a 20x fuel multiplicator and Sophy doesn't care and runs out of fuel at about 60% of the race. That's why I said "she still has a lot to learn" and that's why my lap was rather slow.
Drive smarter, not harder😉

 

[05XR8]

Namely?

The stated intention of the boost is to allow slower cars to catch up. All of the boost options does some variant of that, but in different ways.

Boost weak is objectively the most difficult setting, but it wasn't intended to be, judging by the fact that boost off gives you the biggest credit reward.

It is intended to function as it says. I am experiencing closer races using Boost Weak. We, those that have been experimenting with Boost, understand it doesn’t work properly. It’s what all the discussion is about since pirovacboy brought it to attention in the Custom Race thread, for going on three years ago. Initially for Regular AI and now for GT SOPHY for PS5 owners.

This thread is about testing updates to the agent. Are you noticing any changes to SOPHY behaviour?

 

[Voodoovaj]

It's just a race with a 20x fuel multiplicator and Sophy doesn't care and runs out of fuel at about 60% of the race. That's why I said "she still has a lot to learn" and that's why my lap was rather slow.
Drive smarter, not harder😉

Dude, what is the point of derailing this conversation by setting your race to be unwinnable by Sophy? It defeats the purpose of this discussion. I don't need a video for this. 🙄

"it has a lot to learn" Ya, I don't think Sophy is the one that needs to learn something here

Depends on how you read it.
It does makes sense in how it is described, but it doesnt make sense in the context of the game and how the players anticipate the methods principle function (as your post shows).

You should go watch the video I posted, which contradicts the description of the boost features. It supports the boost features being actually offset by 1 step.

Selections --> Result
Boost None = Boost weak
Boost Weak = Boost Strong
Boost Strong = Boost None

 

[ArronWestley]

Boost should've been a rubberbanding setting. It actually is, but not in the way one would expect, because Boost Off has rubberbanding too.

 

[05XR8]

 

[DK]

If you think they're useless, then you have done something incorrectly. As @eran0004 set your boost to weak. Do not use the quick race. it MUST be a custom race.


Yes, several people in the custom race thread have have discovered this.


And, some races require more work than others. For instance, I am trying to put together a Gallardo Super Trofeo, but the Gallardo's default set up is horrendous and leads to massive chaos. Many of the default setups can be a problem, so be prepared to do little work to fix your cars. Once you have the cars set up correctly, it's well worth the effort.

This game really needs the ability to share settings between your cars.

 

[Sir Crashalot]

Dude, what is the point of derailing this conversation by setting your race to be unwinnable by Sophy? It defeats the purpose of this discussion. I don't need a video for this. 🙄

"it has a lot to learn" Ya, I don't think Sophy is the one that needs to learn something here

Not sure why you're getting grumpy now. Is it my fault that Sophy doesn't care about fuel usage? It's simply a setting for custom races, it's not a hack or so.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Not sure why you're getting grumpy now. Is it my fault that Sophy doesn't care about fuel usage? It's simply a setting for custom races, it's not a hack or so.

Creating a situation where you have disadvantaged Sophy, by setting the fuel usage to max and then selecting the longest track in the game, is an incredibly unproductive addition to the discussion. This thread is to inform those who have not used this feature yet, and your posts discourage people from trying it. Its disingenuous. Yes, it is a hack. It's an edge case, just like tuning the Tomahawk to be nearly undriveable and then beating it with a Auto Bianchi

Boost should've been a rubberbanding setting. It actually is, but not in the way one would expect, because Boost Off has rubberbanding too.

REAL LIFE has rubber banding. Sport Mode has rubber banding. I do it!!! If I have a gap to the following car, I settle in and play it safe. I "rubber band" back to the following car. It happens in real life when drivers switch their mapping to deal with the current state of the race.

Sophy is always ONLY slowing down. It either slows down a lot, or a little, but it's always slowing. In my experience, it has never set a time that I cannot match, nor set a time that is impossible, and there's plenty of players who are faster than I am. So, Sophy has several seconds of pace in it's pocket.

Man, I really hope they deliver a full beans, 100% Sophy option, just to give the haters someplace to go 🙄 If GT8 ships with the same boring single player from the last several version, I'll point to this thread when people complain about it.

 

[pabloprp69]

I wanted to add this, given that Race C this week is very similar to a 700pp setup that I have. Again, I am posting this so that those who have not tried CUSTOM RACE > SOPHY > BOOST WEAK give it a serious try while we wait for a GT8 announcement and release.

So, racing people, starting 10th (albeit rain spread out the field). And, well, you can see the skill level of the competition.
View attachment 1461875

Racing Sophy, starting 10th. I made some mistakes along the way. No rain, but still, it's 30 minutes of driving. I even had to pause a few times to let the blood flow back into my hands, because it was that tense.
View attachment 1461876

Thank you — seriously, great job! It’s incredibly heartening to see other A+ drivers speaking up in support of Sophy. I really wish more people saw it the way we do.

For me, Sophy 2.1 has been hands down the best update GT7 has ever received. It completely changed how I engage with the game.

I used to spend a lot of time in Sport Mode and came close to reaching A+. But honestly, the stress, the pressure to perform, and the emotional toll just weren’t worth it. I wasn’t enjoying the game anymore — and that really sucked the fun out of what I love.

Then Sophy 2.1 dropped — and wow. It was such a breath of fresh air. Suddenly I could have tight, smart, challenging races that actually made me feel something again — but without the anxiety of an online lobby hanging over me. It brought the joy back.

One thing I don’t see mentioned enough is how different the physics feel online. It’s subtle, but the way cars behave in online lobbies feels off — like they move too quickly and almost float across the track. It kills some of the immersion. Sophy, on the other hand, just feels more grounded and real. The physics look and behave more naturally, and it makes a big difference.

I really hope Polyphony keeps building on this. Sophy on all tracks and layouts? That alone would make GT7 feel complete for me.

 

[eran0004]

It is intended to function as it says.

Not necessarily, the description might be incomplete and overly simplified, so you can't take for granted that it's intended to work in the way it's described in the menu.

This thread is about testing updates to the agent. Are you noticing any changes to SOPHY behaviour?

You made a statement (in this thread) about Sophy and how it may have been trained to be slow. I pointed out that this behaviour is most likely due to the boost function modifying the performance of the car, rather than the performance of the AI agent.

 

[pabloprp69]

This thread is about testing updates to the agent. Are you noticing any changes to SOPHY behaviour?

My response from the Custom Race Thread yesterday -

Just did a quick test, and it seems Sophy is indeed taking more varied lines with one make races. Still not a lot of battling between them, but definitely an improvement (I'm speaking specifically about one make races with every car the same).

 

[Sir Crashalot]

Creating a situation where you have disadvantaged Sophy, by setting the fuel usage to max and then selecting the longest track in the game, is an incredibly unproductive addition to the discussion. This thread is to inform those who have not used this feature yet, and your posts discourage people from trying it. Its disingenuous. Yes, it is a hack. It's an edge case, just like tuning the Tomahawk to be nearly undriveable and then beating it with a Auto Bianchi

How did I disadvantage Sophy? Why do you think there's a setting for fuel usage multiplier in custom races when it's not meant to be used? Does PD disadvantage us players in every race that has fuel usage multipliers?
You made a thread called "They made Sophy better". So of course ppl are going to see if it's true. And the truth it that Sophy is good at certain scenarios - but completely sucks at others. Fuel management is a part of motorsports and racing. PD even acknowledged this in this game since there are missions where you have to manage your fuel. So why can Sophy, despite all her artificial intelligence, not do it?
And it's not just this. Look at the list of cars Sophy can't drive. Look at the list of tracks/layouts she can't drive. She can't drive when it's wet and she can only use certain tires. Oh, and she can't use a manual transmission also.
And still there are ppl like you who praise her like she's the greatest thing ever. You only focus on the ONE thing she's good at and call me disingenuous when I show the other side?