Things I've witnessed that increase your DR

[nuu1212]

For every car you finish in front of you gain:
80 - ((Player DR - Rival DR))/500)DR

For every car you finish behind, you lose:
80 + ((Player DR - Rival DR))/500)DR

Thx. That explains (almost) everything.
Only detail remaining:
Can "gain" be negative or "loss" be positive, or is it clipped/capped at zero?
e.g. When a 75000 wins over a 15000 his "gain" will be -40 acc. to the formula... and vice versa

And:
Why not make this (and other insider info) a separate sticky thread like
"What everybody should know (to avoid unnecessary discussions)"

 

[Famine]

Can "gain" be negative or "loss" be positive, or is it clipped/capped at zero?

It looks to be the case that gain can be negative (and probably a loss can be positive), but as @Cuber Tom points out a race win will always be positive even if the math would generate a negative result. And he knows more about winning races than I do

 

[M Albritton]

It updates after every race but only one amount is visible for each day. If you check your history you'll see it only shows one score per day no matter how many races you've done on that day. If you check after every race on a given day you can see your previous score before it refreshes but then that previous score will be replaced by your new amount. Foe example, if you end day 1 with 1000 points it will show that on the app. On day 2 if you lose 1000 points in race 1, and win 500 in race 2, and check your points after, it it will show only 2 scores: 1000 for day 1 and your current amount of 500 for day 2. It won't show that you've been at 0 in between.

So what you're saying is that imagined my points changing after I refreshed the page after each race , even tho the race count increases
each time AND when the Companion App does I'll remember the same. Its not changing. Im imagining that it is!!! Thanks for your help!!

 

[watto79]

So what you're saying is that imagined my points changing after I refreshed the page after each race , even tho the race count increases
each time AND when the Companion App does I'll remember the same. Its not changing. Im imagining that it is!!! Thanks for your help!!

I think all anybody is saying is that the formula and the way data is presented doesn't account for what you say you are seeing. So something else must be happening. Perhaps a bug. I can't see anybody accusing you of imagining it.

 

[Woodybobs]

So what you're saying is that imagined my points changing after I refreshed the page after each race , even tho the race count increases
each time AND when the Companion App does I'll remember the same. Its not changing. Im imagining that it is!!! Thanks for your help!!

No, that's your interpretation of what I'm saying. I've just offered one possible explanation in case you've made a mistake. As others have said a win always results in DR gain so either you're mistaken, they're mistake or it's a bug. In order to narrow it down to a single reason all possible explanations should be explored.

I check after each race when Im trying to increase DR points.

It's not clear from this quote if you also check when you're DR decreases so I wrote a follow up to my original post.

A person trying to help doesn't automatically mean they will provide you with the answer. I, or anyone else trying to help, don't know if you have overlooked something (nor do you, or it wouldn't have been overlooked). Offering, and ruling out, possible explanations helps everyone get to the real explanation.

Possibly this is the reason it appears you lost points after a good result.

That's from my first post. As you can see I've bolded the relevant word.

Thanks for your help!!

You're welcome.

 

[M Albritton]

I think all anybody is saying is that the formula and the way data is presented doesn't account for what you say you are seeing. So something else must be happening. Perhaps a bug. I can't see anybody accusing you of imagining it.

Referring to the 1400 points, yes a bug for sure I get that.

 

[M Albritton]

So I just ran 2 races. I took screenshots of KP before I started and then after each race.

 

[watto79]

View attachment 804546 View attachment 804543 View attachment 804544 So I just ran 2 races. I took screenshots of KP before I started and then after each race.

The screenshots show your DR increasing after each race. I'm confused as to what you're trying to show.

 

[M Albritton]

The screenshots show your DR increasing after each race. I'm confused as to what you're trying to show.

Im trying to show that I understand how it works. When I lost the 1400 points I knew what I was looking at. I dont appreciate people telling me what I saw was wrong. I agree 100% with the formula stated above. Was there a bug that caused me lose that many points? Maybe, maybe not I dont remember the competition in the room that day. I was not challenging the formula when I posted about the 1400 points. I was sharing what happened to me.

 

[watto79]

Im trying to show that I understand how it works. When I lost the 1400 points I knew what I was looking at. I dont appreciate people telling me what I saw was wrong. I agree 100% with the formula stated above. Was there a bug that caused me lose that many points? Maybe, maybe not I dont remember the competition in the room that day. I was not challenging the formula when I posted about the 1400 points. I was sharing what happened to me.

Ah okay. Yes your screenshots are what you'd expect to see and no it should be impossible to lose 1400 points from winning a race. Now that you understand better how it is all calculated it's worth keeping a close eye on to see if anything like that happens again or if it was a one off.

It could have been a delay in the stats updating that made it look like you lost DR, that may have been from an earlier race. Certainly last week there were a lot of connection issues reported with the GT website, that feeds the data into the app and kudosprime. It may have been something like that.

 

[M Albritton]

Ah okay. Yes your screenshots are what you'd expect to see and no it should be impossible to lose 1400 points from winning a race. Now that you understand better how it is all calculated it's worth keeping a close eye on to see if anything like that happens again or if it was a one off.

It could have been a delay in the stats updating that made it look like you lost DR, that may have been from an earlier race. Certainly last week there were a lot of connection issues reported with the GT website, that feeds the data into the app and kudosprime. It may have been something like that.

Ive been watching my DR for months. Ive gone from middle A+ to middle A. Ive seen huge point losses for losing and small gains for winning and small losses/small gains for losing and huge points for winning LOL! Being inconsistent as I am I HAVE SEEN IT ALL!! LOL

 

[Sven Jurgens]

It looks to be the case that gain can be negative (and probably a loss can be positive), but as @Cuber Tom points out a race win will always be positive even if the math would generate a negative result. And he knows more about winning races than I do

One detail we (or I) don't know yet is when the 'cap' is applied. I assume it's per player.

Suppose a 75K player beats a 20K player and a 40K player, according to the math he gains (80 - 110) + (80 - 70) = - 20.
If it's capped afterwards he simply gets nothing or 2 points for beating 2 players.
Yet I assume it's capped per exchange and he should earn 1 + 10 = 11 points.
It must be the latter or the totals would get screwed up, I doubt the 20K player would gain (-80 + 110) = 30 points for losing from the 75K player.

It must be capped at minimum 1, maximum 160 for each exchange between 2 players to make sense. However bugs are always possible (and likely since in the beginning you could have your DR reset upwards for losing SR...)

Another possibility is a disconnect that did not look like a disconnect to you. The server registered a disconnect before the online save, or maybe the online save failed, making the server believe you disconnected. Meanwhile you get back in the lobby screen with the wrong information on the screen. I've seen this happen before with negative time splits displaying from people getting disconnected after the finish. And the game has also kept me going for a while when my internet was definitely already out... A glitch can always happen.

I've been everywhere on the spectrum as well and while @jasguer's site was still active it logged every DR change for every race and it all checked out, including the borked DR upwards reset. Over 6000 races, 480 wins, I've not yet encountered losing points for winning.

We need more data!

 

[sundaydriving]

Just try to win and have fun.

Getting better at racing improves DR, nothing else.

Go play.

 

[mclarenLB]

One detail we (or I) don't know yet is when the 'cap' is applied. I assume it's per player.

Suppose a 75K player beats a 20K player and a 40K player, according to the math he gains (80 - 110) + (80 - 70) = - 20.
If it's capped afterwards he simply gets nothing or 2 points for beating 2 players.
Yet I assume it's capped per exchange and he should earn 1 + 10 = 11 points.
It must be the latter or the totals would get screwed up, I doubt the 20K player would gain (-80 + 110) = 30 points for losing from the 75K player.

It must be capped at minimum 1, maximum 160 for each exchange between 2 players to make sense. However bugs are always possible (and likely since in the beginning you could have your DR reset upwards for losing SR...)

Another possibility is a disconnect that did not look like a disconnect to you. The server registered a disconnect before the online save, or maybe the online save failed, making the server believe you disconnected. Meanwhile you get back in the lobby screen with the wrong information on the screen. I've seen this happen before with negative time splits displaying from people getting disconnected after the finish. And the game has also kept me going for a while when my internet was definitely already out... A glitch can always happen.

I've been everywhere on the spectrum as well and while @jasguer's site was still active it logged every DR change for every race and it all checked out, including the borked DR upwards reset. Over 6000 races, 480 wins, I've not yet encountered losing points for winning.

We need more data!

I've won a Daily Race A for 11DR before at around 73k DR, I've also never lost DR for winning and I've won several races on and around the 75k mark - where the math should say that I lose DR. From my experience I think its fairly safe to say if the DR gain for beating a player is negative it gets instantly reset or overidden to +1.

Also, since someone asked earlier, I can confirm that DR won at 75k is completely lost to the void, everything else about the DR points exchange works as normal, except anyone who exceeds 75k simply stays at 75k.

EDIT: Also, I don't believe its possible to lose or gain more than 160DR to a single player, I'm not sure if someone mentioned that already so I figured I'd mention it. 160DR appears to be the upper cap, 1DR is the lower cap.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I've won a Daily Race A for 11DR before at around 73k DR, I've also never lost DR for winning and I've won several races on and around the 75k mark - where the math should say that I lose DR. From my experience I think its fairly safe to say if the DR gain for beating a player is negative it gets instantly reset or overidden to +1.

Also, since someone asked earlier, I can confirm that DR won at 75k is completely lost to the void, everything else about the DR points exchange works as normal, except anyone who exceeds 75k simply stays at 75k.

EDIT: Also, I don't believe its possible to lose or gain more than 160DR to a single player, I'm not sure if someone mentioned that already so I figured I'd mention it. 160DR appears to be the upper cap, 1DR is the lower cap.

I just realized I had already answered my own question in one of my tests.

A 49656 -> 49811 +155
B 28445 -> 28806 +361
C 19684 -> 20060 +376
D 14639 -> 14960 + 321
E 28202 -> 28089 - 113
F 26664 -> 26425 - 239
G 1669 -> 1753 + 84
H 292 -> 241 - 51
I 17390 -> 16859 - 531
J 1 -> 1 (- 1 - 23 - 40 - 50 - 23 - 26 - 76 - 79 - 45)

Total before: 186,642
Total after: 187,005 +363

363 DR added to the total DR pool, in line with how many points I owed, yet could not cough up.
Also note that finish positions 5th and 6th lose DR while 7th gains some. It all depends on DR difference.

For player A the calculations are
37 + 20 + 9 + 37 + 34 + (-15) + (-18) + 15 + (-19)
To get to +155 gain, the three negative values are all set to 1 point for the exchanges between A-G, A-H and A-J.
So yeah, the lower cap definitely works per player exchange. No reason to believe the upper cap doesn't either.

With 160 DR as the upper cap, the max possible loss a player can have
12 player race -> 1760
16 player race -> 2400
20 player race -> 3040
It can look worse though, when you drop a level you lose another 1500, so the max possible loss is 4,540 losing to 19 players that are at least 40K lower than you and dropping from A+ to A in the process. So when you are max 53,339 DR before the race and everyone in the race is <= 13,339
Any A+ willing to lose to a full D/C room to confirm

Actually if I can hit 45K this week and somehow get matched with only DR.D I can confirm

 

[gtpierre]

So, since the DR is basically exchanged between players, does it mean it becomes harder to gain DR everytime a good player create an additional account ?
If for example, you bring your account to 50K. Then create a new one and bring it to 50K, it means that you rendered 50K ungainable for other players, while taking another 50K from other people right ?

Or is there something I missed ?

 

[fastone371]

So, since the DR is basically exchanged between players, does it mean it becomes harder to gain DR everytime a good player create an additional account ?
If for example, you bring your account to 50K. Then create a new one and bring it to 50K, it means that you rendered 50K ungainable for other players, while taking another 50K from other people right ?

Or is there something I missed ?

I would think there has to be DR available to all accounts without it costing DR to other accounts, if that makes sense. A DR E driver really does not have DR to give up so it must come from the DR bank

 

[Majorwolf72]

So, since the DR is basically exchanged between players, does it mean it becomes harder to gain DR everytime a good player create an additional account ?
If for example, you bring your account to 50K. Then create a new one and bring it to 50K, it means that you rendered 50K ungainable for other players, while taking another 50K from other people right ?

Or is there something I missed ?

You missed the 1500 bonus that are applied when you gain a rating. In the end that probably more than evens out second, third etc. accounts and points lost to the 75k cap.

 

[Maneawolff]

I have stared deeply at the bar measuring and comparing after each race and taking note of things I did differently. This will be redundant to some but will shed some light to others. Ever finish a race and win, overtaking 2 or three cars and see your DR bar stay the same? Winning is not the key to increasing your ranking. It is based off your racing IQ. If u pass a car but touch and see that orange Sr symbol, it will take away part of how much it would of increased if not. Finishing with a penalty unserved is horrible. Watch for a gap and slowly eliminate your time penalty without giving up your position and it will increase. Slow down when u have space before a turn because you know the person behind u has to slow down as well. Seeing you slow down will get them antsy and they may over brake and miss the Apex trying to catch you giving you another gap on the exit. If it's a race with tire and fuel use, lean your car out when drafting or in slow sections of the track. If you manage to finish without getting as much fuel as your car should take, that shows skill and the increase is visible. Of course everyone knows clean race, fastest lap, victory, and pole position is great but it's not everything. No matter where you are on the grid, there is a way to really increase your rank

That's some good solid advice and it all makes sense, took me a while with the little bar stuck on DR: B and a half to accept that these algorithms note and judge you on absolutely everything, just winning isn't enough and that last minute celebratory 360° burnouts just before the finish line aren't the greatest idea...
Good call bra..

 

[Sven Jurgens]

That's some good solid advice and it all makes sense, took me a while with the little bar stuck on DR: B and a half to accept that these algorithms note and judge you on absolutely everything, just winning isn't enough and that last minute celebratory 360° burnouts just before the finish line aren't the greatest idea...
Good call bra..

No they don't. You get better, you increase your personal rank / skill. DR only cares about finishing position and it's the same formula whether you win by killing everyone else on the track, whether you started first or last, doesn't matter how many penalties you got, it's always 80 +/- (DR difference/500) you take from each player you finish ahead off (and give to those that finish ahead of you) min 1 point, max 160 point per player. (max 40,000 DR difference)

That your DR bar doesn't always visibly change is because of that DR difference. If your DR is higher than the average in the room, you on average gain less than 80 points per player you finish ahead of and give more than 80 points per player you finish behind.

Depending on the amount of people in the room you can win / lose the following max amounts
12 players, win/lose min 11 to max 1,760 DR
16 players, win/lose min 15 to max 2,400 DR
20 players, win/lose min 19 to max 3,040 DR

SR however does depend on what you do on the track. And since it's the primary for matchmaking, lower SR usually means lower DR in the room, and thus less points to pick up in that race. (and more risk at losing more DR in that race) But that's relevant for the next race.

SR also limits whether you will level up in DR rank and get the 1,500 points bonus for leveling up. Your DR letter can't advance past your SR letter. So if you're DR B SR B, your numerical DR will continue to go over 30,000, yet your DR letter stays B and you won't get the 1,500 bonus until you bring your SR up to A. DR does keep climbing and once you get to SR.A your letter changes and you get the extra points.

It's just for the level up bonus to actually rank up your DR letter. Theoretically you could have 60K DR and still be DR.B if you somehow managed never to get to SR.A while you keep winning races. And you will be matched on your numerical DR so it doesn't really matter, the letter is just for show.

However if your SR falls too far below your DR letter (over 1.5 ranks below your current DR rank) then your DR gets reset to the middle of the DR rank matching your current SR. So if you're DR.A and your SR falls below halfway SR.C, you get reset to 20K.

Anyway always good to drive clean and stay in SR.S.