Thinking of moving on from GT6, will I like this game?

Discussion in 'Project CARS 1' started by belzebutt, Nov 13, 2015.

  1. GrumpyGrumps

    GrumpyGrumps

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    I also play/played with a DS4/DS3, and the smoothness of inputs is a big deal. Wheel users have a much larger physical range through which to place their inputs compared to DS3/DS4 users with the triggers/thumbsticks, so smoothness is key, and finding a controller setup that works vis a vis deadzones and sensitivities can be a really process of trial and error.
     
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  2. HaoleHatingWRX

    HaoleHatingWRX

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    I think you will like Project Cars if you are patient. I spent a week just setting up the FFB on the wheel and individual cars. The physics are pretty good and setup changes make a difference. The F1000 car had crazy slow speed liftoff oversteer that I had to dial out.

    I can understand your desire for specific cars; I wish there were some Subaru's and that the real Suzuka Circuit was included.

    Give Pcars a try if you can find it on sale.
     
  3. Fredzy

    Fredzy

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    I'm glad I found this thread, good insights from everyone. The temptation to get a PS4 ahead of GT Sport and try PCars is pretty high for me, but I think I'll just wait out GT Sport. I went down the hardcore realism road before, and found that the fun factor is diminished for me as the required driving focus and consistency goes too high. I don't suspect that PCars is super hardcore real, but I do think it'll be enough of a contrast to GT to drive me nuts.

    Plus above all else... I ain't got time fo' dat. I'll be happy if I can squeeze in enough racing to rank above "beginner" or whatever in GT Sport's FIA thingy.
     
  4. liv4hardstyle

    liv4hardstyle

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    You hit the nail on the head my friend. Gt6 spoon feeds to the majority of players, most want to sit down and feel like ayrton senna, this is appealing. PCARs expsosed just how little i knew about all the aspects of fast, clean racing and i had to actually figure things out through trial and error (my neighbours kids learnt some new words.. Loudly) and for the record 70 difficulty is just right for me too and i had to work for that.

    I will still play gran turismo for its fun factor but it will be like going back to training wheels on a push bike after hammering on a kawasaki ninja. PCARs offers a real experience and thats a niche market.

    All of this is an opinion.
     
  5. Chris Kelley

    Chris Kelley

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    I am a very experienced sim racer thats been down this road. PCars to most average players is just to hard for them. GT6 has a really simple way of setting up the car where Pcars is very complex. Lol just a good transmission setup in Gt6 makes all the difference. 90 % of the cars in Gt6 that have the sa dme drivetrain can use a simular settup. Your not going to get that in Pcars. If the track temp changes guess what . Your going to need an adjustment and the right one at that. It is a HARDCORE sim. You have to have a vast knowlage and experience to understand what the car needs and what to adjust to be on top. I think it just intimidates people. They think its the game when really its them lacking the knowlage. This is the first thing I did in Pcars and every other sim I played. Pick one car yes one and one track . Now spend hours tinkering with it like a real race team does. Change the weather and do it all over again.Get aNOTEBOOK
     
  6. twitcher

    twitcher

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    I've played GT my whole life basically, so switching to pCARS was a big jump. I use a controller.

    The biggest mistake I made with pCARS was thinking I could just jump in and be fast right away. I drove it like I drive in GT6, which led to a lot of frustration.

    After nearly a month and almost giving up, I decided to "start over." I stuck to 1 car (Merc SLS AMG GT3), and drove it and only it for several weeks. I put a base tune on the car, and made only minor adjustments depending on the track. The main thing I focused on was all of the controller settings. I read some guides, and spent time "tuning" my controller. Compared to GT6, you have to be multiple times smoother with all of your inputs. Instantly going full throttle while cornering will cause a spin. Flicking the joystick to full lock, or going lock to lock, will cause a spin. Trail braking is much more difficult.

    The single biggest difference maker I found in adjusting my controller settings was adjusting the "dead zone" on the throttle. I eventually increased my dead zone to 30, as I have a bad habit of resting my finger on R2 even when I should be off throttle, which was causing all kinds of grief. Now that I have that sorted out, I am really enjoying pCARS.

    Tuning in pCARS also takes some time to get used to. For one, the settings actually work like they should. Camber actually works!! Ride Hight works like it should in real life as well (ie forward rake leads to more front grip, rearward rake leads to more rear grip). The area I struggled with the most was the dampers, as you have nearly twice the amount of adjustment. After reading the in game descriptions a million times and experimenting, I now have a good feel on how to adjust the dampers to make the car behave to my liking.

    Temperatures are another thing that take time to figure out in pCARS, as GT has nothing close to this level of detail. First is tire temps, which are effected by being and surface temps, how your car is set up (ie adjusting camber effects temps), and also your driving style. If you are unsmooth, your tire temps will increase, and once you reach about 110', life gets miserable and it is very tough to bring the temps back down. Also certain tracks like Dubai (due to ambient temp) and Hockenheim (due to layout with many high load right handers) are extemely tough on tire temps, so it takes some finness and patients to get things right.

    The other temps to worry about are brake temps, and engine temp. If you are constantly threshold braking and you have your brake ducts closed off, you will get brake fade. Just like with tires, there is a price to pay for going maximum attack all the time. In GT, you can be as abusive as you want and not pay a price. Lastly there is engine temp. This really only comes into play online where competition is very close. You have to find a balance between limiting drag (closing off the radiator) and keeping engine temps optimal (overheating will cause a loss in power). Turbo cars with adjustable boost add another variable to the equation, as the more boost you run, the faster your temps will climb.


    Another major adjustment I had to make was navigating curbs. In GT6, curbs are nothing; you don't have to think twice about running over them. In pCARS, the curbs are deadly. You can still cut across them, but you must use extreme caution. You also have to learn which curbs you can touch, and which ones you must avoid at all costs.

    Lastly, in pCARS (and in real life) if you enter a corner too fast, the most likely thing that will happen is that the back end will step out (drivers refer to this as "loosing the back end under braking or turn-in). In GT6, this does not happen at all. In GT6, if you enter too fast, you get understear, which is much much easier to correct and mask.


    After playing pCARS for a couple months now, going back to GT6 feels like playing an arcade game.
     
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  7. ynot

    ynot

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    1,661

    It will, if I had to pick a racing game to get with the PS4 since there is no GT out yet then I would choose Driveclub. Fun factor is there. It's always on sale in the Playstation Store.
     
  8. Emmcee

    Emmcee

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    Drive club is cactus IMO, the "out of the box" version handles like an olive. Got that free with my ps4 and I played it maybe 5 mins and never again, consistantly thrashing pcars and f1 2015.
     
  9. Chris Kelley

    Chris Kelley

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    Well all these race teams do the same thing. They work out the bulk of the car at the shop then use bump stops and shock packages to tune track to track. When your jacking that rear up thats what they call "wedging it up". The down side to that is the weight transfer up off the corner and you got the rear higher in the air. Making the car loose staight line speed because less of the green house is blocking the air getting to the rear spoiler or wing. I use this sparingly expecially at tracks with big straights.
     
  10. Chris Kelley

    Chris Kelley

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    As long as i have down force and suspension left i try to stay away from wedging it up like that. Another thing is making sure you build adjustment in the car to swing both ways. You dont want to end up with a condition on track and the car is just bottomed out of adjustment. Get that base tune and work with it at all temps to be sure you can work those tire pressures and ON TRACK adjustments to fix the handling issues. Then practice making them on track even tho you wont hit them all the time.
     
  11. Drausio

    Drausio

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    If you have GT6 you'll hate Project Cars. I just gave up, nothing seems to work in this game, don't loose you money and yur time. Save it for Assetto Corsa, Dirt, or wait for Gran Turismo Sport. Or if you have a powerful PC go for RFactor2.
     
  12. Emmcee

    Emmcee

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    907
    you'll only hate it if you don't like a challenging aspect for car setup, I didn't think it was possible to hate pcars if you have a genuine interest in motor racing but that my opinion.
     
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  13. Saidur_Ali

    Saidur_Ali

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    6,508
    Driving fast in pCARS is like a walk in the park compared to GT6 for me using a wheel. I think a lot more people would enjoy the game considerably more if they played it with a wheel.
     
  14. Emmcee

    Emmcee

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    907
    Ohh defiantly, it unlocks a whole new aspect to the game. To say it's a walk in the park compared to gt6 I don't agree with as I beleive gt5 is better than 6 but it's personal opinion.
     
  15. GrumpyGrumps

    GrumpyGrumps

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    I do have both Project Cars and GT6. GT6 was fine for what it is, but Project Cars is on another level entirely. Like I said in my previous post, it took a while to get my settings right, but now that I have it is fantastic. Going back to GT6 is not an option, because Project Cars is more fulfilling in every way.

    And I'm not overly hyped about GT Sport either. Whenever it does come out I will get it sure, but by then I'll have Assetto Corsa as well, and between that and PCars I don't see how I'll need much more.
     
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  16. Emmcee

    Emmcee

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    907
    Pcars is for people who like the challenge and see improvements in car setups. The whole game works around this aspect, but it also caters for people who just want a quick fang around the circuit by just turning the difficulty down. if your a die hard Motorsport fan, it's impossible to hate or dislike Pcars.
     
  17. VetteZR1

    VetteZR1

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    Switched to PC gaming in December and haven't touched GT-6 since. It's a real pleasure to drive PCARS, AC, and Dirt Rally. Between them I can't find enough time to drive. PCARS is a racers game. No driving on the Moon, knocking down cones, paint chips, helmets or race suits. Just driving cars. If you liked that portion of GT-6, PCARS is for you.
     
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  18. dmcallis

    dmcallis

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    GT6 shows what is possible on the PS3, stretching the hardware pretty much to the limit. pCars shows what is possible on the PS4 as a first attempt.

    Waiting to see what PD can accomplish, given the same hardware.

    To actually answer the question put forth: Yes, I think most serious GT6 fans will like pCars. The "masses", maybe not... If you want what "sim" aspects GT6 touches, given the hardware limitations, you'll love those aspects when set free by hardware which allows it.

    I'm certainly enjoying it.
     
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  19. twitcher

    twitcher

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    Care to elaborate on "nothing seems to work"???

    PCARS takes a lot more time to figure out the tuning, but once you do, it's on a whole other level compared to GT6.
     
  20. PureAlpha1206

    PureAlpha1206

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    PCars seems very difficult on standard controller? Does anyone have any tips to set up the tuning so it's not as loose all the time?

    It seems the general consensus is that a wheel is far better for this game, but I have no desire for one seeing how little I really play games anyway.
     
  21. twitcher

    twitcher

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    6,232
    Being fast in pCARS with a controller is definitely possible. Many of the top times on leaderboards are by controller users.

    I'm not at home right now, but ill share my controller settings later if you like? I think I have things feeling somewhat similar to GT6.

    One thing I will say is that to be good with a controller, you have to get extremely good at feather L2 and R2 (brake and gas). This takes a lot of practice, and some fiddling with the options menu to get things to react the way you want them to.

    As far as car setup, I've found that there's no magic rule for making a car easier to drive with a controller. Some cars feel better with a softer setup, some cars feel better with a stiffer setup.

    The only "golden rule" I've found so far is that I run very little negative toe in the front...a lot of my cars actually have positive toe in the front. This is contrary to what you would see in real life, and to what most wheel tunes use, but I prefer the more dull turn in that the positive front toe results in.

    One last tip, if you want to work on your gas & brake feathering, spent some time driving with the "data analyzer" (sorry, drawing a blank on the correct name) screen active....the one that shows you all the tire and brake temps. On this screen, you can get visual confirmation of your throttle and brake inputs, which I found to be extremely helpful in refining my technique.

    Lastly, once you get comfortable with the controller, don't try to focus on "being like the wheel guys", as they have advantages you can't get with the controller. Instead, focus on maximizing the benefits the controller gives you...the biggest advantage being that you can turn the front wheels very aggressively, very quickly. This doesn't lend itself to being smooth, but is quite handy if you employ a "pitch & catch" technique on corner entry. This is actually a pretty advanced technique used in F1 and other high grip racing to maximize front end grip during corner entry. It's not exactly friendly on tires though :p
     
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  22. PureAlpha1206

    PureAlpha1206

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    Thanks for the tips and yea if you remember I definitely would like to know how you have it set up. :) I really like everything the game has to offer and the visuals are pretty great, but I've just been having trouble really getting into it because of the touchiness of the controller.
     
  23. twitcher

    twitcher

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    6,232
    Ok so here's all my controller settings. I'm no expert in how to set these, I don't even know what they all do :lol: I found a setup on these forums when I first got the game, and have made adjustments here and there, fiddling with things to see what happens and what I like. This is definitely a work in progress.

    First things first is to go to near the bottom, to where it says Controller Input Mode. You must set this first before setting anything else. I'm a little unsure on what exactly this does, but what I read is that modes 2 & 3 are for when you have a newish controller, and mode 1 is for when you have an old, worn out controller. The setup I found recommended mode 2, so that's what I went with, and what I've stuck with (I also had a pretty new controller at the time...it's getting a little worn now :p ).

    While your near the bottom, turn Advanced to ON, the turn Soft Steering Dampening ON, Visual Wheel Filtering ON, and Opposite Lock Help OFF. Again, I don't really know what these do, I put them how the setup told me to, and haven't touched them.

    Ok, back to the top for the sliders

    Steering Dead Zone - 4

    Steering Sensitivity - 5

    Throttle Dead Zone - 10

    Throttle Sensitivity - 5

    Brake Dead Zone - 5

    Brake Sensitivity - 15

    Clutch Dead Zone - 0

    Clutch Sensitivity - 20

    The only ones of these that I've really fiddled with are the brake and the throttle.

    Speed Sensitivity - 70

    Play around with this one to see what it does. It reduces wheel lock the faster you go. Depending what you drive most commonly, this could be different from you. I don't spend much time in formula or LMP cars, but if that's your thing, this setting could be different for you.....actually, staring at this setting, I may try.a lower value tonight and see how things go.

    Controller Filtering Sensitivity - 60

    Force Feedback - 1


    Another tip that I thought of today is to learn to rotate the car with the "pedals" :p. With a controller, you don't have as much control over the steering as you do with a wheel. Over time, I've got used to the idea of using the stick to turn the car into the corner, and then use the gas and brake, sometimes simultaneously, to fine tune the balance and rotation of the car through the corner. Once in the corner, I try to keep the stick as steady as possible (not necessarily at full lock), except to make oversteer corrections. To make the car either tighten or open mid corner though, I use the gas and brake. I know that wheel users use this technique as well, and they get it from real life driving, but I've found that putting this principle at the core of how I take a corner has really helped me get faster. It's a lot safer too, in the sense that I don't make violent mistakes with the steering which cause me to crash or lose time.

    How you set your diff up plays a big role in how you can get the car to respond with this technique. Like I said, I like to turn into the corner really aggressively to maximize weight transfer, so most of my cars run a fairly high Decel Lock (usually 50% or higher) and a fairly high Preload (100/120 or higher). This helps the car from over rotating during trail braking and turn in, as well as mid corner. My Accel Lock values then tend to be quite low, usually less than 20%, which gives me some room for error with my throttle work on corner exit.
     
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  24. PureAlpha1206

    PureAlpha1206

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    This looks great man I appreciate it! I'll give them a try later :)
     
  25. greenlightning

    greenlightning

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    This weekend trying Project Cars for first time on PS4 just testing as the PS4 is borrowed and the game is rented. However I did play it on the computer last fall for short time in similar situation. I mainly wanted to make sure graphics, frame rate was similar to computer. I think actually better compared to the computer that i originally tested this on. Used some info that people have shared to make playing with a controller at least feasible. I think Project Cars is good, but not amazingly better than GT6. I do have a G27 wheel so really really sucks that not compatible with PS4. Yes Project Cars has a very long learning curve compared to GT6. It has decent selection of cars and great selection of tracks. The weather and time change for each track is nice. Mainly I am just messing around with offline sandbox race mode and it is great that you can set the difficulty, length of races, qualify or position you want to start in, standing start, rolling start etc. I do hate the garage thing in project cars, that is one area that would recommend for much improvement. I also think the game would be better for very basic livery editor - changing colors, logos, number while maintaining pre-defined graphic schemes. Not sure if I am convinced to go buy a PS4 and game yet but maybe in May especially with the other one coming out in June. If the rumors of the enhanced PS4 are true would be best to wait for that, but man what a long wait. Probably best to see about getting cheap PS4 and upgrade end of 2017 early 2018 unless the next GT series has a huge wow factor - like what GT1 and GT2 was to just about everything before then.
     
  26. 05XR8

    05XR8

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    I'm digging this game on XBONE after just getting it today.

    Edit: Awesome game.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2016
  27. Carlitos_GT

    Carlitos_GT

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    Sorry about the offtopic, but...

    This and your previous posts are hands down some of the best, most sensible advice I've read on how to play PCars (or any driving sim) with a controller. I've also figured out the counterintuitive toe-in "dulling", that helps soooo much with turn-in and direction changes (chicanes and such).

    My controller settings are kinda similar, but for the sake of discussion, I feel that your controller filtering sensitivity may be too high. Can you still make quick corrections, or is the steering too "slow" for it and you just work the brakes and accelerator for that mid-corner? (that piece of advice is gold too, I need to start fiddling a lot more with the differential!)
     
  28. Carlitos_GT

    Carlitos_GT

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    And BTW, my guess is the OP did not get the game after all...
     
  29. twitcher

    twitcher

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    6,232
    The Filtering Sensitivity is something I haven't tested all that much to be honest. I may give it a go this weekend.

    The one thing that I find though is that, just like with the toe, I prefer the duller feeling in the front end. If the front end is too pointy, I find the car will violently shoot off in one direction if I make a quick steering input. The best example of this I can think of is having to react quickly to a slow moving car, or when selling a dummy in the braking zone (but not going for the dive and jinking back onto the racing line under braking).

    Still, I'll play with the setting a bit and see what results I get.
     
  30. Emmcee

    Emmcee

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    907
    You know, I play games like PC and GT and only wish there was a f1 game with this model of realism. Heck I still think the "GP" series by Geoff crammond made in the 90s still has better realism than today's f1 so called sims.

    @twitcher

    Iam the opposite mate, I need a car that will turn in right away, I find once I get a good line in, I can usually get a good line out and that's heaps easier for me if the front end bites right away. I can deal with the oversteer and that's what people with controllers are missing, the real chance to fight with understeer and oversteer and this can greater improve your setup as the feeling is a lot more precise. I invested in a decent wheel a while back and if people like playing racing games in general and frequently, it's a must you get one, the gameplay change is another level. Once you buy one the next thing you will do will be making a homemade park brake to use to improve your drifting technique.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2016