This Is A Must See

[wfooshee]

Mansell was good enough to win the CART and F1 championships in the same year.

Not the same year, but consecutive: F1 in '92, CART in '93.

 

[Dave A]

Well, here's what I think.

First of all, it is widely considered that Mansell won the 1992 championship because of a greatly superior car which had active suspension, abs, traction control etc. I myself didn't watch F1 back in the early 90s so I wouldn't know how the season went, but from what I've heard, this is majorly the reason he won that year.

Fair enough, but that still doesn't change my opinion, I watched him racing, I watch him Prost and Senna battling for win's. It was superb.

Second of all, being the fastest around the Top Gear track means nothing to me. Schumacher hasn't participated and hasn't recorded a lap around that track. Anyway what does it matter? He was faster than Damon Hill and Mark Webber around the track. That seems trivial and has nothing to do with comparing Mansell to other drivers IMO.

I know that, it was just a light hearted comment, I'm not here to run into a deep debate on why I'm right and your wrong. Like I said theres no way to definitively say, all you can do is base an opinion on what you've seen.

Thirdly, Schumacher has raced against strong competitors such as Mika Hakkinen, Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve. They may not be the best, though I consider Hakkinen to be one of the best drivers ever, but they were still very good.

Theres a difference between good and great, then theres a difference between great and the best.

And the fact that he won the CART and F1 the same year doesn't mean much. Jacques Villeneuve won the CART championship in '95 and the Indy 500 the same year. He also went on to win F1 in '97. By those stats alone, they're "comparable". Schumacher on the other hand has won 7 F1 championships, and in at least 4 of them ('94, '95, '00 and '03) he did have a strong competition and not just him having a "superior" car.

Fair point again, but it still doesn't change my opinion. I still think as good as Schuey is, he's not quite as good, but it's close either way. I don't expect any of this to change your opinion, you've based yours on what you've seen, I've based mine on what I've seen, and I grew up watching Prost, Senna and Mansell and have been watching right through Schumacher's super success and upto Alonso's victory last year.

Not the same year, but consecutive: F1 in '92, CART in '93.

Should have said racing year, the dates the events were run meant they could be counted as being in the same racing year or something like that. I don't know if it's accurate, but I've read that before.

 

[Kylehnat]

The F1 season and CART (now ChampCar) season are concurrent. I don't know how any sort of overlap could occur to consider an F1 title in '92 and the CART title in '93 as being the same season.

 

[wfooshee]

I like Nigel Mansell. He didn't get himself in the best car by being an unproductive also-ran. That said, his return to F1 after running CART was by no means productive. Shoulda stayed quit after he quit.

Isn't hindsight wonderful?

 

[Dave A]

The F1 season and CART (now ChampCar) season are concurrent. I don't know how any sort of overlap could occur to consider an F1 title in '92 and the CART title in '93 as being the same season.

Then I guess it can't have been accurate info.

 

[Pebb]

You might recall that Michael Schumacher has been around since 1991, and even won a couple championships before he created the Ferrari empire. He is one of the best drivers of all-time, regardless of how easy it has been for him with Ferrari. His championship campains with Benetton were nothing short of absolute brilliance. If he had lost a tire at 200 mph, he would have driven home on the rim.

If Senna had no died in that crash he died in, then Schumacher would of not won as many championships as he has or maybe none even.

 

[amp88]

If Senna had no died in that crash he died in, then Schumacher would of not won as many championships as he has or maybe none even.

How's that exactly? He won the first two races of 1994 (Senna was so under pressure at the first race that he spun on exiting a corner, trying to get the power down to catch Schumacher). Yes, Senna was ahead at San Marino before the accident, but he wasn't pulling away from Schumacher much after the safety car came in. Even if Senna had not been killed at San Marino, who knows whether or not he would have kept winning or if Schumacher would have won the season. There's no way to say (obviously), but I think it's obvious to see from the first three races it would have been very close. Even if Senna lived on to have a full career, he would almost certainly have stayed at Williams in 1995 (having had his first test with Frank Williams and wanting to have gone there for a large part of his career), while Schumacher would have been at Benetton (in the superior car). Senna would no doubt have retired by the time Schumacher was in the Ferrari in 2000 to present (Senna would have been 40 in 2000, Gerhard Berger retired at 38). If Senna had beaten Schumacher to the title in 1994 and 1995, he wouldn't have been racing to stop Schumacher when he was winning with Ferrari.

Who knows, perhaps Schumacher wouldn't have gone to Ferrari had he not won in 1994 and 1995 (when he moved to Ferrari in 1996 they were very much underdogs in a really bad state, perhaps not the challenge someone intent on victory would have desired had he not already been successful), but Ferrari have generally been good over the years at spotting talent (Gilles Villeneuve is possibly the best example), so perhaps they would have jumped at the chance even more to have a championship-less Schumacher at their team (at a considerably reduced salary too, no doubt).

Anyway, of course we can't say for certain that Schumacher would have won 7 titles had Senna lived a full life and driven a full career, but saying he certainly wouldn't have won 7 titles is just as silly as saying he definitely would have.

 

[Milliethemutt]

Mansell won the first GP Masters race in South Africa and that was against some drivers who weren't too shabby.

It looks like it may be worth a watch when they start the series properly this year.