This patch might mean a quick death for GT5?

[MrSassypantz]

Seriously. This GAME has become a job. To get a decent car requires HOURS of grinding. I recognize some people find that acceptable, but most, including myself, think it's totally pompous of PD to force us to grind for cars. It's not a game if it's not fun.

 

[necrodeemus]

Oh clever. So it's a REAL driving simulator? You sure? I mean really really sure? Just because it says so on the box?

Right, so when I'm cruising at 150 kmh on the Nordschleife, lose control and crash into a rail against a cliff, I merely bump off it and my driver and the car are none the wiser. Hang on, they put a horse's eye caps thingy on me so my FOV is only 60 degrees. But if I fly on my magic carpet behind the car, I see so much more.

I can do this all day man. Nothing is real in video games. Grow the f up.

I don't need to grow up, I am not the one throwing my dummy out of the pram because I cannot "dupe" my way to all the cars in the game. The simple fact is PD had an intention for this game, the original intention was not to be a collection game, it was a racing game, anything beyond that should be seen as a afterthought, if PD have stopped the ability to trade 'rare' cars then it should be obvious to everyone, even you, this was not the intended game design. Crying about how PD fixed this loop hole just makes you.. well..

 

[JediRage]

I don't need to grow up, I am not the one throwing my dummy out of the pram because I cannot "dupe" my way to all the cars in the game. The simple fact is PD had an intention for this game, the original intention was not to be a collection game, it was a racing game, anything beyond that should be seen as a afterthought, if PD have stopped the ability to trade 'rare' cars then it should be obvious to everyone, even you, this was not the intended game design. Crying about how PD fixed this loop hole just makes you.. well..

Then you need to read some more. Did you not read I already have all the 1 mil + cars? So who's throwing the dummy out here? Well your fanatic lot threw the kitchen sink out of the window so that PD would notice you.

Wease PD, bwan gwifting cwoz that gwuy hwas mwore cwars than me. waaahhh.

Lets do this till you run out of pictures.

 

[charliec]

Seriously. This GAME has become a job. To get a decent car requires HOURS of grinding. I recognize some people find that acceptable, but most, including myself, think it's totally pompous of PD to force us to grind for cars. It's not a game if it's not fun.

LOL, what do you consider decent? You can make a few hundred thousand credits in 20 minutes (not including B-Spec remote). You can get a "decent" Ferrari 458 Italia I guess for that price.

Or, when you say "decent" do you mean multi-million dollar cars like the Ferrari 330 P4, of which there's only 3 on earth?

How dare they not hand over everything immediately.

 

[necrodeemus]

Never said I had a problem with dupers or duping. I didn't effect me directly, because I never got involved. I have a problem with people complaining about the ability to cheat the system being taken away from them like its something that they deserve.

 

[SS_1182]

LOL, what do you consider decent? You can make a few hundred thousand credits in 20 minutes (not including B-Spec remote). You can get a "decent" Ferrari 458 Italia I guess for that price.

Or, when you say "decent" do you mean multi-million dollar cars like the Ferrari 330 P4, of which there's only 3 on earth?

How dare they not hand over everything immediately.

But you see, this is a typical pointless retort which ignores the initial argument in the first place. The problem is that A-Spec is too short, too flawed, and too monotonous. The AI is horrendous, and running A-Spec events repeatedly to earn a huge amount of credits cannot be considered "racing", and is not really even what I'd call a "driving simulation". The AI on this game are nothing more than moving obstacles, which makes the whole grinding system a chore, along with the other points that were mentioned.

 

[JediRage]

LOL, what do you consider decent? You can make a few hundred thousand credits in 20 minutes (not including B-Spec remote). You can get a "decent" Ferrari 458 Italia I guess for that price.

Or, when you say "decent" do you mean multi-million dollar cars like the Ferrari 330 P4, of which there's only 3 on earth?

How dare they not hand over everything immediately.

Come to think of it, arcade doesn't have all the cars in the game. Wasn't that a brilliant master stroke? Cmon, you of all people should admit how impressed you are with that.

/sarcasm

 

[JediRage]

Never said I had a problem with dupers or duping. I didn't effect me directly, because I never got involved. I have a problem with people complaining about the ability to cheat the system being taken away from them like its something that they deserve.

That's a better tone.

Hey, if the online worked like a charm, races had more than just looking forward to racing braindead AI, and B-spec was more than just WATCHING braindead AI race, better credits for enduring (lol) this nonsense, no one would be bemoaning the loss of gifting.

 

[charliec]

But you see, this is a typical pointless retort which ignores his initial argument in the first place. The problem is that A-Spec is too short, too flawed, and too monotonous. The AI is horrendous, and running A-Spec events repeatedly to earn a huge amount of credits cannot be considered "racing", and hardly "driving". The AI on this game are nothing more than moving obstacles, which makes the whole grinding system a chore, along with the other points that were mentioned.

It doesn't ignore the point. The solutions are:
1) Grind via B-Spec remote (requires practically no effort and returns loads of credits).
2) Earn credits via online play (granted still has some issues to iron out).
3) Earn credits via the online special events.

But, if you want to focus on bawwing instead of focusing on the different solutions to your problem, go right ahead. 👍

To act like like you have to spend hours playing the same race over and over to get a "decent" car is stupid though, lets be honest. Yes, you may have to grind (via B-Spec or A-Spec, you pick) to get extraordinarily rare cars (like the 330 P4 example) but...so? Yes, you're required to spend time and effort getting something that is supposed to be sacred to car lovers. I don't see a problem with that.

EDIT - And for the record, I would love for A-Spec to be longer, to have more championships, 1 make races, etc and of course the smarter and more challenging the AI is the better, but it's not as though PD hasn't been working on it, it's not as though they haven't made changes (what I feel are improvements).

 

[Gentry Coach]

It seems to me that people have lost concept of what this game is. It is a racing / driving simulator. Not a collect car simulator. Not a Grind your way to level 40 simulator.

But by that argument, shouldn't I just be given all of the cars to drive from the beginning?

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

It seems to me that people have lost concept of what this game is. It is a racing / driving simulator. Not a collect car simulator. Not a Grind your way to level 40 simulator.

But by that argument, shouldn't I just be given all of the cars to drive from the beginning?

Ya, that makes no sense. Many RPG are about platforming and fighting, but are you given all the powerful weapons at the beginning?

 

[MrSassypantz]

LOL, what do you consider decent? You can make a few hundred thousand credits in 20 minutes (not including B-Spec remote). You can get a "decent" Ferrari 458 Italia I guess for that price.

Or, when you say "decent" do you mean multi-million dollar cars like the Ferrari 330 P4, of which there's only 3 on earth?

How dare they not hand over everything immediately.

I forgot that the game is actually real life. My BAD. It should take me 200 years to earn 20 mil to buy the P4. What was PD thinking only making it take 20 hours????

 

[charliec]

But by that argument, shouldn't I just be given all of the cars to drive from the beginning?

Some people actually enjoy having a sense of achievement, and putting work into things can actually confer some sense of value into the end result. Crazy...

 

[MrSassypantz]

Ya, that makes no sense. Many RPG are about platforming and fighting, but are you given all the powerful weapons at the beginning?

Most RPGs have variety that make leveling up fun... not doing the same 5 minute race over and over and over again. If PD had made grinding fun, perhaps people wouldn't be complaining.

 

[charliec]

I forgot that the game is actually real life. My BAD. It should take me 200 years to earn 20 mil to buy the P4. What was PD thinking only making it take 20 hours????

OH MY GOD 20 HOURS!!?? That's like 2 hours a day for 10 days! Just to get one of the most expense cars in the game!! That's effort!!

If only there was some other way to get credits, like an offline B-Spec racing mode that would allow money to be made while I wasn't at the console...

 

[D_M]

Most RPGs have variety that make leveling up fun... not doing the same 5 minute race over and over and over again. If PD had made grinding fun, perhaps people wouldn't be complaining.

Is online not your variety?

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

Most RPGs have variety that make leveling up fun... not doing the same 5 minute race over and over and over again. If PD had made grinding fun, perhaps people wouldn't be complaining.

That is a flaw in the design principles of GT5, but it doesn't mean you should exploit the system.

 

[charliec]

Is online not your variety?

Whoa, signing in, finding a room, and actually playing the game?!

That's a lot of work there buddy. Clearly the only option is playing the Clubman Cup over and over.

 

[Gentry Coach]

I was only arguing against the people saying it was a the Real DRIVING Simulator and not a platforming/collecting game. If that is what it really is then I should be able to DRIVE any car. I have a X2010 that I got from B-Spec level 35. Now that was a CHALLENGE! And I shouldn't dupe, but I can earn my money by letting someone else use my imaginary driver in an imaginary race that I'm not even involved in?

Some people actually enjoy having a sense of achievement, and putting work into things can actually confer some sense of value into the end result. Crazy...

 

[SS_1182]

It doesn't ignore the point. The solutions are:
1) Grind via B-Spec remote (requires practically no effort and returns loads of credits).
2) Earn credits via online play (granted still has some issues to iron out).
3) Earn credits via the online special events.

With all due respect, this does NOT address the issue of the negligence in game design which I am referring to. Remember, this is "The Real Driving Simulator".



1. That's not racing, OR driving, and only reinforces the pointlessness of such an absurdly designed credit-based system
2. Payout for online races is so low that it would take months to earn a car like the FGT
3. Special Events pay out well, but the AI is still horrendous. I mean just consider that half of the events are designed so that you go from 12th to 1st place within 3 laps to get the full payout. What kind of a "racing" game is this?


And as for the other standard A-Spec "races", when did you ever in your life see a racing series where one driver was forced to start from 5th place every time?

 

[birksy82]

Seriously. This GAME has become a job. To get a decent car requires HOURS of grinding. I recognize some people find that acceptable, but most, including myself, think it's totally pompous of PD to force us to grind for cars. It's not a game if it's not fun.

If what you are saying is true, then why have I got countless decent cars and still have about 8 million credits?

I haven't done any grinding and I certainly haven't done any duping (cheating).

So please, explain that for me.

 

[charliec]

I was only arguing against the people saying it was a the Real DRIVING Simulator and not a platforming/collecting game. If that is what it really is then I should be able to DRIVE any car. I have a X2010 that I got from B-Spec level 35. Now that was a CHALLENGE!

Gotcha, sorry 👍

Ya it's definitely a collecting game for me as much as it is anything else. Good job on the lvl 35 B-Spec, I've been trying to get into it more but usually end up stopping early to go driving myself

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

If what you are saying is true, then why have I got countless decent cars and still have about 8 million credits?

I haven't done any grinding and I certainly haven't done any duping (cheating).

So please, explain that for me.

I agree, I have 200+ cars now, I have never duped, and IMO my garage is fairly impressive. I have probably 15-20 worth more than a million, plus a Ford GT40 Race car worth 19 mil.

 

[Bonefork]

For me? Mostly. It also has to do with that fact that my Level 24 ticket gave me a damned Formula GT, the only possible car it could have been that I didn't want. And I can't even trade it now. Hell I've never even done a trade and have no sweet clue how I'll ever afford the Lambo Miura. Why is it $15 mil when a 24 hour race only nets you less than $1 mil? Who came up with these numbers, a complete moron?

I feel like the more time I put into this game the less I get out of it. I had fun for the two weeks I was doing the A-spec events trying to beat my buddy, I finished B-spec and have been rare-car hunting and trying to finish my license tests... but without a wheel some of them are stupid impossible or just plain unfair.

I checked last night for Bonus Race 9 and it didn't exist, these are the only reason to keep playing for me and they're dying off. Yes, I enjoy driving, but I have a proper sports sedan and like 10 other racing games to pick from with content still left to play.

All GT5 did was get me interested in Forza for the first time ever and now I've got hundreds of hours worth of content ahead of me in Forza and although there's differences, I'm enjoying it as much as GT5 and I LOVE painting the cars.

Did I mention in Forza there's a very realistic chance I'll be able to afford the Miura after I finish the career? With GT5 patch 1.07 that car becomes damn near inaccessible to me. I have saved 10 million up over the course of B-spec grinding but have no idea where to get another 5.

Patch 1.06 gave me hope, but I bet given the wait on the Fanatec wheel I ordered, the first GT game it will play will be GT6... but maybe not. Japanese software and games in the last 10 years have simply not kept up with the competition.

 

[HuskyGT]

Yeah... Regardless of GT5 being short of content, I think that the prize system is what ruins the game. Anyone remembers GT3 having this problem? No! And GT3 lacked content. Personally, I can´t remember being bored even a single time with GT3, plus I played it for about four years. Same goes for GT1, 2 and 4.

What happened with all those tracks in GT5? I mean, its less than in GT4, but there are enough to make good use of them, I would say. So many of them left aside, or not being used propperly...

Why do we see the same tracks over and over, plus events that only have one race, plus three race championships, plus events that don´t make sense like the muscle car championship that only uses one track, and the track has nothing to do with american muscle cars... Events in GT5 look so disorganized and random... Who was in charge of doing that had an I.Q lower than 50...

What happened to the variety we got in GT4? The prize system where you could erase your progress in events? Winning prize cars over and over like good old GT games? Maximum car prices of 4,000,000 CR that weren´t easy to get, but not impossible, and more important I WAS FUN. Why cant we sell the majority of our cars, for crying out loud! The saddest thing is that there a very nice events qere you´re not able to win anything once you´ve finished it, like the GT Rally. At least XP would have been nice!

No matter how much I love Gran Turismo, PD is making it hard for me to really enjoy the game. and now, with this new update, although for me it doesn´t change anything, it will be harder to enjoy it. We need more content, or the prize system, selling system and car prices to be like past GT titles. And PD has to remember that not everyone has permanent internet access in their PS3´s, so seasonal events are not a fix to the problem...

 

[charliec]

With all due respect, this does NOT address the issue of the negligence in game design which I am referring to. Remember, this is "The Real Driving Simulator".

1. That's not racing, OR driving, and only reinforces the pointlessness of such an absurdly designed credit-based system
2. Payout for online races is so low that it would take months to earn a car like the FGT
3. Special Events pay out well, but the AI is still horrendous. I mean just consider that half of the events are designed so that you go from 12th to 1st place within 3 laps to get the full payout. What kind of a "racing" game is this?

And as for the other standard A-Spec "races", when did you ever in your life see a racing series where one driver was forced to start from 5th place every time?

I'm definitely not arguing that it is without flaws, beacuse I agree with all of your points. A few points I'd like to make though:

1) People are focused on collecting cars. This is okay, but it puts buying over driving. When they implemented the autosave function that no longer allowed you to purchase and test-drive cars prior to saving, I think that was when they started trying to make the "purchase" more meaningful. Basically, if you're going to spend money on it, make sure you want it. Make sure you're going to drive it. Make sure you care about having it. You can build a garage of excellent cars, all of which are driven and are personally interesting, without grinding for hours and hours. Yes, some cars like the FGT may require grinding, but (especially with the online special events) it's not that difficult to get some large payouts and make major purchases.

2) The AI is not great but I wouldn't say it's horrible. They still have improvements to make, but I've seen it change drastically from v1.0, and I have no reason to think it won't continue improving.

3) Completely agree that there are many aspects of the racing that need to be improved (more races, qualifying, etc).

PD seems (so far) to be pretty dedicated to making changes, and they seem to be keeping an eye on user feedback, so I have faith that they'll continue improving/expanding the game. It hasn't significantly impacted my ability to enjoy the game. I have a decent garage of cars (200+) that I enjoy, have plenty of money to buy more if I wanted, and I spend lots of time running practice laps in cars, playing with settings, etc. That nets me 0 credits, but it's still fun.

To me, that's what makes it a driving simulator.

 

[birksy82]

I agree, I have 200+ cars now, I have never duped, and IMO my garage is fairly impressive. I have probably 15-20 worth more than a million, plus a Ford GT40 Race car worth 19 mil.

Exactly it's not difficult to get lots of money in GT5, some people have trouble for some reason though.

 

[charliec]

Did I mention in Forza there's a very realistic chance I'll be able to afford the Miura after I finish the career? With GT5 patch 1.07 that car becomes damn near inaccessible to me. I have saved 10 million up over the course of B-spec grinding but have no idea where to get another 5.

Honestly, probably 1 or 2 rounds of online special events and a few days of B-Spec remote grinding?

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

Well based on what I know so far, 95% of people play this game, your assumption is based on what, your friends!?
Sorry to hear you have bad experience with online on PS3, but for me it works great, i was maybe once disconnected from GT5 online game.
Other then cross game chat i don't see how PD/Sony is 5 years behind from M$/360.

For me this patch doesn't kill game at all, i bought it for racing, not trading cars, and collect 1000+ cars, that i will never even drive, just to earn meaningless trophy.
.

My bad experience with GT5 is nothing to do with a bad connection but the lack of online features. You ask how is Sony/PD 5 yrs behind the rest and I shall answer.

Firstly having to switch our 360s on to have a party chat is just ridiculous. This should be possible on the PS3. Now let me address the lack of online features. For starters its very basic but what really annoys me is the lack of leaderboards. Having leaderboards on a racing game is pretty much standard these days and the fact GT5 only consists of a few seasonal time trials is just laughable. Why is it arcade racing games such as Burnout, PGR had leaderboards 5yrs ago and yet here we are in 2011 and GT5 doesn't have any.

Other racing games have moved with the times and have introduced many excellent online features. For instance Forza 2 had time trial leaderboards, career, exhibition, hotlap. Also weekly tournaments, auction house etc. Moving onto another game and let me use TDU 2 as an example. This game has career leaderboards, co-op, community centre where you can upload your challenges or compete against others.

I don't mean to be rude but the problem with this site is some members haven't experienced these game features. Some like PD remain in the past and haven't moved with the times. Take for example the difference between this community and those on Forzamotorsport.net. If Forza 4 was released without leaderboards there would be bedlum on that site. Yet on here any leaderboard thread recieves very few replies but a silly thread like "what music do you listen to when playing GT5" recieves many replies. I nearly cried when I read a thread asking for members to post their nurburgring laptimes. Writing down your laptimes is something I did 10yrs ago lol.

So what online features would I of added if I was Kaz/PD? well I shall list them.

1. A Spec leaderboards would of been a must. Repeating events numerous times is much more fun if your competiting against the world and your friends. I went through the FM2 career 4 times and at no stage did it seem a chore like GT5 because of the career leaderboards.

2. Stock time trials like GT5P. Great fun because its all about skill rather than the build and tune of your car.

3. Online tournaments. Like FM2 have a qualifying session and then a knockout.

4. Auction house.

5. Matchmaking servers. This in my opinion is much better because it saves the hassle of finding a decent host.

6. Create a racing team/clan. You could even have a leaderboard for this and this could be based on how many online wins your team has managed or even base this on time trial leaderboard positions or both.

7. A community racing centre like TDU. So I could upload a challenge say 3 laps around Rome using the Enzo. The leaderboard for this event would be based on the quickest overall time after the 3 laps. Basically just like TDU 2.


Many of the above is standard these days and yet GT5 doesn't have any of these!

 

[MrSassypantz]

Is online not your variety?

Did you seriously just say that? Those 15,000 credits from a 15 minute race is really going to get me those nice cars quickly. You just exposed your ignorance. Thank you.