Thoughts on 'Gran turismo anywhere' next month?

[Destinkeys]

I think having read this forum since the day GT5 came out, I am in a VERY good position to judge what people do and don't want. Show me thread after thread moaning that you can't play B-Spec on a browser... (you can't). Because I'll show you HUNDREDS of threads asking for more A-Spec.

It's not that I don't want the feature patched in, after all, it WAS promised at the beginning. But it's the PRIORITY of fixes that my post refers to.

B-Spec remains a way to grind for cash and cars for most people. Watching an AI drive around under your command with even WORSE driving habits than the appalling AI might be your idea of a good racing game. From what I have read here, it is not most people's. Most people bought GT5 so that THEY could drive the cars around. Kaz wants us to watch someone ELSE driving them, and a VERY poor driver at that.

Let's be honest with each other here... if it came down to a choice of another 250+ events in A-Spec, or remote control of your B-Spec driver from a browser, are you telling me YOU would prefer the latter?

Yikes!

 

[Schmo]

Let's be honest with each other here... if it came down to a choice of another 250+ events in A-Spec, or remote control of your B-Spec driver from a browser, are you telling me YOU would prefer the latter?

Yikes!

Absolutely.. not. Definitely would want more A-Spec, but thats not the purpose of the thread. But I do think their priority should be getting out what they promised or features listed in game or online. One of these features is Remote Races.

 

[machschnel]

You are another one of those people who dont want certain features only because you personally wont use it. Dont be so fast to to judge what others want. This has been a confirmed feature even before release of the game, so its not something new and earth shattering. And you willing to give up GT5 for another game just because they added a feature that isnt mandatory to use is just laughable.

The only reason players "want" this update is that it will make the insanely monotonous and badly designed GT Life slightly easier to progress in (in B-Spec at least).

Imagine if B-Spec wasn't in GT5? Maybe gear ratios would have been customizable, maybe brake upgrades would have been included, maybe Spa would have appeared. Generally speaking, a lot of game related aspects could have been added. B-Spec is not a game, it's a macro.

Imagine it this way.....

Someone chain's a 20kg iron ball to your ankle. They aren't taking anything away, only adding a feature that some people may like.
Now, the same person responsible for the iron ball offers to cut 1 kg out of it. You enthusiastically say yes, as any possible decrease in workload would be appreciated.
But when you think about it, the iron ball should never have encumbered you in the first place.

Gran Turismo 5 is a badly designed game. Physics wise, it is among the best (including PC sims), but as far as game design goes, I'm appalled.

 

[Shinzah]

The only reason players "want" this update is that it will make the insanely monotonous and badly designed GT Life slightly easier to progress in (in B-Spec at least).

Imagine if B-Spec wasn't in GT5? Maybe gear ratios would have been customizable, maybe brake upgrades would have been included, maybe Spa would have appeared. Generally speaking, a lot of game related aspects could have been added. B-Spec is not a game, it's a macro.

If B-Spec wasn't in GT5, there would be no adjustable gear ratios, brake upgrades, or anything different.

Beyond the lack of B-Spec.

Which would probably then be instilled in this update. And you'd still be crying. Because people love to cry about things they don't like, for unnecessary, illogical, and downright borderline idiotic reasons.

I WANT T/S on my browser. I *WANT* it. Many people *WANT* it. Judging what everyone wants based on a few forum posts by people with horrible attitudes that act like children who got knitted too small sweaters for christmas is a poor way to evaluate the total playerbase. A playerbase which resides, a large part in Asia, where B-Spec is very popular.

Imagine it this way.....

Someone chain's a 20kg iron ball to your ankle. They aren't taking anything away, only adding a feature that some people may like.
Now, the same person responsible for the iron ball offers to cut 1 kg out of it. You enthusiastically say yes, as any possible decrease in workload would be appreciated.
But when you think about it, the iron ball should never have encumbered you in the first place.

Gran Turismo 5 is a badly designed game. Physics wise, it is among the best (including PC sims), but as far as game design goes, I'm appalled.

You know. Some of you are either too young, or too jaded, or plain special to call this bad game design.

Daikatana, Big Rigs over the Road racing. Enthusia. Driving Emotion Type-S, E.T, Superman 64, Leisure Suit Larry, Shaq-Fu, Custers Revenge, Virtua Racer, Wario Land on the Virtual Boy, Mario Tennis on the Virtual Boy, Terminator vs Judge Dredd (Awesome, but also terrible) Battletoads, Double Dragon, Streets of Rage 4.

GT5 is SOOO bad. Yes it is.

 

[Predwolf]

Shaq-Fu....oh no, the memories! Make them stop!

 

[CarreraGT]

SPEED is a standard channel here. It's a car/racing channel.

I gathered that, we're a bit behind the times here unfortunately 👎

 

[Shinzah]

Also, Haters, please check my race report on Suzuka B-Spec.

Fuji and maybe pics will be added tommorow, and Fuji was one intense, crazy, B-Spec race (at one point my driver was in a relatively competitive car, down more then half a lap, and dead last. My relief driver won by .192 of a second.) I'm going to without reporting until I watch the replay in entirety.

 

[CarreraGT]

Daikatana, Big Rigs over the Road racing. Enthusia. Driving Emotion Type-S, E.T, Superman 64, Leisure Suit Larry, Shaq-Fu, Custers Revenge, Virtua Racer, Wario Land on the Virtual Boy, Mario Tennis on the Virtual Boy, Terminator vs Judge Dredd (Awesome, but also terrible) Battletoads, Double Dragon, Streets of Rage 4.

GT5 is SOOO bad. Yes it is.

Also in response to this, we are talking about Gran Turismo here, not some rubbish low budget arcade game.

If you consider Gran Turismo as a running development (which it essentially is), the game has been evolving for nearly 20 years! PD promise the best and we have every right to expect the best.

Not only does GT5 not reflect this in terms of game design, but it takes a step backwards in some regards from previous iterations.

I love GT5 for the physics model, the graphics, the cars, the Nordschleife and many other things but I will be the first to admit that the levelling system, the AI and the game design in general is average at best. It's pretty poor for a game with this kind of budget and development time.

As has been said numerous times, the game is hamstrung by poor allocation of resources, meaning PD spent too much time developing gimmicky addon features rather than producing a smooth, well rounded gaming interface. And, getting back on the topic of this thread, B-spec is one of those features.

 

[Shinzah]

Daikatana, Superman 64, Driving Emotion Type-S, Virtua Racer, Wario Land, Double Dragon and Battletoads had budgets for their timeframe that far exceed "Rubbish".

Daikatana winning the bunch with a dev cycle of over five years, and several million dollars in the sinkhole.

You want to see a BAD game after more then a few years? There it is. Thats a bad game.


Gran Turismo has not been in development for 20 years. Its been in development for a maximum of 18 years. Only 14 of which have been usefull development timespan, seeing as how finalized PSX hardware wasn't even availible five years before its launch.

You love GT5, self admitted. Yet because they have features, and priorities you don't agree with, its somehow immediately a bad game. Which as an opinion is fine. As a fact, it is NOT a bad game. Its only a bad game TO YOU. Because you, and a whole lot of other very negative people have exceptionally high expectations from a video game, that gave you NOTHING short of what it promised to give you before launch, except of course, a browser based T/S system which is now coming.

 

[Stumps_GTI]

I for one, would LOVE to see (if possible) what the real percentages are, of people pleased with this new addition, compared to those who wish it were something better...

I know plenty of you guys can't wait for this, I personally could not care less....it's a feature I will get no value from.
Will I be in the 10%....maybe 70% who don't care...? Who knows... Maybe it will play out in favour of those wanting...

 

[Lawndart]

Bottom line here is its a "back of the box" feature, promoted and not delivered... Kaz has to do it...

I wouldn't be surprised if there is other stuff in the update to... More a spec events seems like very low hanging fruit and just imagine the headline... "GT 5 just doubled in size!"

 

[The_Rpg_Moogle]

YESYESYES!!!

Grinding cash while pretending to be very interested in class!!!

Dream come true

 

[sk0pe]

Have to admit, everything this guy says makes complete sense. It is ridiculous, in this era of environmental awareness that game companies and developers (PD is not alone, T10 does the same junk) create game modes that require leaving your system on for hours, if not days at a time, unattended, basically simming races.

Especially ridiculous when you think that every other sports game in the world allows you to sim a game, or even a race, automatically. Whether it's FIFA, Tiger Woods, Madden, Nascar, NBA 2K etc, etc, etc, you are not forced to actually sit there and watch the game when you sim. It just does it for you.

But these developers think they have to prop up some fraud of a psuedo-economy. So instead of just simming that 24 hour race, they force you to sit there. Otherwise, you might amass a large amount of credits and GASP, actually be able to drive all the cars. The HORROR.

( In bold )-Are you dead serious ? Your gonna save the planet by not having ur ps3 running ? Lol, read it back to yourself and think of what you do in a day.
The fridge you have running 24 hours a day just to keep your meat and drinks cool because your too lazy to go and buy fresh meat and veges everyday uses a LOT more power than the ps3.

Games companies and developers gonna save the world in this 'era of enviromental awareness' - Wow where do we find these people?

 

[Predwolf]

( In bold )-Are you dead serious ? Your gonna save the planet by not having ur ps3 running ? Lol, read it back to yourself and think of what you do in a day.
The fridge you have running 24 hours a day just to keep your meat and drinks cool because your too lazy to go and buy fresh meat and veges everyday uses a LOT more power than the ps3.

Games companies and developers gonna save the world in this 'era of enviromental awareness' - Wow where do we find these people?

Thank you.

I've never understood the fascination GTP has with the power consumption of the PS3.

See my post earlier in this thread:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=164205&page=8#post4606371

For more hilarity.

 

[CarreraGT]

Gran Turismo has not been in development for 20 years. Its been in development for a maximum of 18 years.

As a fact, it is NOT a bad game. Its only a bad game TO YOU. Because you, and a whole lot of other very negative people have exceptionally high expectations from a video game, that gave you NOTHING short of what it promised to give you before launch, except of course, a browser based T/S system which is now coming.

Is 18 years not nearly 20 years? You might want to go back and read the post. And you are entitled to your opinion but I'm sorry you can't claim it as fact, it doesn't work that way.

About not delivering on promises, how about realistic damage and AI, Top Gear time trials (as implied through videos showing the Stig), full field NASCAR races, improved tuning options, etc. etc. So yeah I had high expectations (as did we all) and GT5 fell short in some aspects.

Some of these issues are more significant than others, however I can't help but think how much better the game would be if they had spent the time developing each of these things properly rather than developing B-spec Anywhere... And yes that implies that I like GT5 (why else would I be on here?)

 

[Shinzah]

Is 18 years not nearly 20 years? You might want to go back and read the post. And you are entitled to your opinion but I'm sorry you can't claim it as fact, it doesn't work that way.

I can claim it as a fact. When GT1 came out after "Five years in the making" it was DEVELOPED for two years, possibly three. It was not on a five year development cycle, because you can't develop a game for a system that does not even exist, its not possible.

Its possible the idea for the Gran Turismo franchise and brainstorming has been about that long, but its not possible for the actual game, in a state of form AS a game, to be around for that long.

About not delivering on promises, how about realistic damage and AI, Top Gear time trials (as implied through videos showing the Stig), full field NASCAR races, improved tuning options, etc. etc. So yeah I had high expectations (as did we all) and GT5 fell short in some aspects.

Implication is not promises. NONE of these were promises, at all.

In any NASCAR video you can clearly see there wont be a full field of NASCAR stock cars. Realistic damage WAS NEVER PROMISED. GT5 promised to do its best, and Kaz has stated a ridiculously high ammount of times that no matter how they do damage, it won't be realistic, and it might not even make it into the game. I didn't even expect it at all, personally.




Improved tuning options? When was this promised?


Edit: Also stop for a moment and think. This feature can integrate many things into the game if done correctly. Which as I said before, would include T/S For A-Spec races as well.

Competitions people can watch without owning game/system. It wouldn't be hard to adapt it from b-spec to that. Also, this is the ONLY thing Kaz has said about the update. The last update added several features and updates. I can only imagine this one will too. Though again, the last update was almost entirely A-Spec, now theres a B-Spec update IN ALL FAIRNESS.

Some of these issues are more significant than others, however I can't help but think how much better the game would be if they had spent the time developing each of these things properly rather than developing B-spec Anywhere... And yes that implies that I like GT5 (why else would I be on here?)

If its on the packaging, it gets priority. You don't understand game development (Clearly).

 

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

( In bold )-Are you dead serious ? Your gonna save the planet by not having ur ps3 running ? Lol, read it back to yourself and think of what you do in a day.
The fridge you have running 24 hours a day just to keep your meat and drinks cool because your too lazy to go and buy fresh meat and veges everyday uses a LOT more power than the ps3.

Games companies and developers gonna save the world in this 'era of enviromental awareness' - Wow where do we find these people?

No, read yourself and quit being a childish PD fanboy.👎

We live in era when we are aware of our impacts on the environment. I'm not Al Gore tree hugger by any stretch of the imagination, but I also understand that it's my duty as a human being to be as friendly to planet Earth as I can possibly be. This includes turning off lights when I'm not using them, using more energy efficient appliances and transportation, not littering....basic conservation. A small mind might think that "it doesn't use much energy, so I'll just leave it on". It all adds up.

Leaving your personal gaming system on for hours and days at a time unattended is a waste of energy. The "but the frig uses more" argument is childish and weak. Your fridge keeps your food edible. It's performing a needed function. Video gaming is not a needed function. You say it's because I'm too lazy to go to the store everyday. Which would again be a needless waste of even more energy.

Then when you combine millions of gaming systems being left on unattended for hours just so developers can protect their precious fake video game economies is the height of irresponsibility. As I pointed out, every other sports related game allows you to sim a game instantly. It's only because the stupid credits are in the game and the fake economy crap is such a focus that PD, and T10 for that matter, don't want to allow you to sim a race quickly and force you to sit there and watch it.

So not only is B-Spec just plain lame, and a symptom of a larger problem of shoddy game design. It is a mode designed to waste energy.

 

[Shinzah]

If you want to be a hippe, go right ahead and do it. But one thing trumps your argument.

If everyone was so worried about clean energy solutions there would be enough clean energy overhead to support "wastes of time" while leaving a minimal carbon footprint.

Infact I'll go a step further. Why do you have the most power hungry console of the bunch to begin with? You're argument is deeply flawwed.

 

[Destinkeys]

On a forum with as large a membership, it is easy for small minority opinions to generate enough posts you might THINK it is the majority. But there's one thing about B-Spec... If you bother to read everything on this forum for any length of time, you will come to the conclusion that B-Spec is reviled by the vast majority of GT5 players, and is only tolerated grudgingly because it offers a way to mitigate the appalling grind of GT Life and the loss of 2/3 of the A-Spec events we had in GT4.

Sometimes I have to ask... if YOU are perfectly happy with GT5, did you EVER play GT4? If this is your first time on the franchise, you really aren't in a position to criticize those that HAVE played previous games, and find this one EXTREMELY lacking in whatever it was that made GT4 such a good game.

We have every right to feel robbed about the substitution of B-Spec for all the missing A-Spec events. We didn't buy GT5 to watch someone ELSE drive our cars around. I can turn on the TV and watch FIA if I want to do that, and I won't have to watch a bunch of drivers that CAN'T RACE...

GT5's AI is poor by many racing games' standards already, and PD's way to mitigate this is to put us in charge of an AI driver that is EVEN WORSE than the main AI...?

That's freakin' insane!

Before you charge in to PD's defense, every time they do something that gets a majority of us here wondering what on earth they are thinking, have the good taste to post about whether this is your FIRST GT game, and maybe how old you are...

They might have quite a considerable influence on just how happy you feel about this version of the game.

 

[E90SLAM]

while you sleep? you can do that now. anyway, if you're sleeping you can't set up b-spec races so it won't really benefit.

where this will benefit is for those of us who work, or have a lot of school. we can run races while we're not at home. THAT is what excites me... earning money and b-spec EXP while i'm sitting at my 7-to-5 (9/80 schedule )

damn! I have 9/80 schedule too!
We work at the same company??? LOL~

I don't think it'll work for me since my wifi connection at home is horrible...

 

[Shinzah]

You don't know how to play B-Spec. You give your drivers overpowered, or the wrong cars for the event. You expect that the stats mean nothing. You don't develop them or race properly and you expect that it gives you a good experience?

I'm writing my B-Spec race report on fuji right now. It was the most intense race I've never driven.

 

[BoneSawTX]

I wouldn't be surprised if there is other stuff in the update to... More a spec events seems like very low hanging fruit and just imagine the headline... "GT 5 just doubled in size!"

LMAO, yea keep imagining.

 

[DanDiplo]

The point about power-consumption that some people are obviously missing is this:

Leaving your PS3 on, unattended, just to run an imaginary race in real time with an imaginary driver that you aren't going to watch is a waste of energy. Doesn't matter if the PS3 consumes 1w or 1000w, it is still a waste. A fridge might consume more power, but at least it is doing something useful.

If PD had any sense GT anywhere would run on the server. You could upload your driver profile, they could run a simulation, and you could watch online or (if you don't care about watching) run it at 10x speed to forward to the end.

 

[Shinzah]

The point about power-consumption that some people are obviously missing is this:

Leaving your PS3 on, unattended, just to run an imaginary race in real time with an imaginary driver that you aren't going to watch is a waste of energy. Doesn't matter if the PS3 consumes 1w or 1000w, it is still a waste. A fridge might consume more power, but at least it is doing something useful.

If PD had any sense GT anywhere would run on the server. You could upload your driver profile, they could run a simulation, and you could watch online or (if you don't care about watching) run it at 10x speed to forward to the end.

You don't understand. Beyond the endurance races, B-Spec wasn't designed to be left on unattended. It was designed as a break from driving yourself to watch some racing and be a pit chief. If you use a competitive car, with the right setup and tire combination, then good luck winning with zero strategy or effort.

 

[Stumps_GTI]

You don't understand. Beyond the endurance races, B-Spec wasn't designed to be left on unattended. It was designed as a break from driving yourself to watch some racing and be a pit chief. If you use a competitive car, with the right setup and tire combination, then good luck winning with zero strategy or effort.

I would think A-Spec was designed as a "break" from B-Spec... A=Spec is far more insignificant if you compare race sizes.

 

[Shinzah]

Haters may click Here.

 

[FLIGHT50]

It amazes me that instead of perfecting what's there or giving us content that is more crucial, they are giving content that can wait. Once they get all the bells and whistles worked out, then they can add stuff like this. This is minor in comparison what GT5 could have been out the box.

This feature will be of no interest to me. I stopped playing b-spec awhile ago and left Bob at lvl 10. I am enjoying using my car inventory for Seasonal events along with trying out every car in my garage. I don't have time to watch or even let Bob run for me. I bought the game for myself to run. Besides Bob is too frustrating for me to deal with anymore.

 

[Destinkeys]

You don't know how to play B-Spec. You give your drivers overpowered, or the wrong cars for the event. You expect that the stats mean nothing. You don't develop them or race properly and you expect that it gives you a good experience?

I'm writing my B-Spec race report on fuji right now. It was the most intense race I've never driven.

Incorrect... you make the false assumption that, just because someone dislikes B-Spec, that automatically means they haven't learned how to play it. I have golded all my B-Spec races up to close to Level 30, then gone back and tried them with lower power cars. They WERE NOT even remotely any more entertaining. Watching Bob drive like a moron in a 200hp car is no more fun than watching him drive like a moron in a 600hp car. He STILL drives like a moron, in fact, even MORE moronic than the main AI, which is quite an achievement.

And, I'm sorry for you if B-Spec is the most intense racing you've NEVER driven. Watching Le Mans, FIA GT1, ALMS, BTTC, DTM and all the other racing on TV every day is what I consider the most intense racing I've never driven. If I want to watch someone ELSE drive round a track, I'll watch the pros, and maybe pick up a tip or two about lines and overtaking. Not some idiot who I could outdrive with my eyes closed.

If B-Spec was supposed to just be a 'break' from regular driving, how come the races are twice as long? How come the prize cars aren't available as A-Spec prizes for those that don't NEED a 'break'? How come the EXP for B-Spec doesn't simply get added to A-Spec? B-Spec has NO VALUE except cash and cars.

This I guarantee... If ALL B-Spec races were available to be played as A-Spec races, and their EXP went to A-Spec, there would be, at a conservative estimate, about a thousand times as many players NEVER playing B-Spec again. The tiny few that have fallen in love with this mode would be exposed for the minuscule minority they are.

Go watch some BTTC, some GT1, some ALMS. Learn what REAL racing looks like, then compare to the joke that B-Spec is...

 

[Bigbazz]

To sum up the extreme side of b-spec. my b-spec is lvl33, and shall probably stay there for the remainding future.

"I need a break from driving so im gonna put it on b-spec, sit here for 24hours while i watch an idiot drive my car" Or more likely, turn off the screen and go do something else and come back when he's finished.

Or better, turn off the playstation and help save the environment, and your electricity bill!

 

[vrooom]

You don't understand. Beyond the endurance races, B-Spec wasn't designed to be left on unattended. It was designed as a break from driving yourself to watch some racing and be a pit chief. If you use a competitive car, with the right setup and tire combination, then good luck winning with zero strategy or effort.

So you say you actually enjoy watching the AI race and giving commands? Cool, I can't argue with that. I absolutely despise B-Spec mode but I believe that you are actually telling the truth and you actually like the gameplay interaction of B-Spec mode. After all video games are an interactive medium.

If (as you say) you like managing and watching GT5 virtual drivers how can you think that this "Gran Turismo Anywhere", a new feature of GT5 that costs time and money, is going to be an enjoyable feature to you? You won't watch the race, you won't be able to command your drivers (how can you command them if you don't see them?) and you would have to leave your PS3 on pointlessly!

Are you seriously still defending "Gran Turismo Anywhere"? What's the point of "Gran Turismo Anywhere"? More credits? If it is so then it is a over-engineered but deeply flawed solution to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place! They should just increase the credits for regular A-Spec event and give some proper prize cars!

Make no mistake, every feature in every program costs time and money and both are finite. For every new feature of a game there will be other features that will be underdeveloped or not even there. A good developer/manager is someone who will be able to find the proper balance. And seeing how PD spent time and money on B-Spec, and apparently is developing this "Gran Turismo Anywhere", while the core driving game has so many missing features/bugs/glitches proves they have forgotten the core values of driving games.👎