Top Gear Written Review - C6 Z06

[LeadSlead#2]

we only count what Porsche did with the carrera...it only makes sense to count what GM did with the vette---nobody else

 

[neanderthal]

someone here said they did 90mph around a 90 degree corner in a C4 vette.



i call BS/ shenanigans unless that was an 8 lane rd and they used all the lanes.

i agree with M Specs definition of a supercar, except for the luxury accoutrements. those are only a recent development and true for the industry at large rather than just than particular segement.

the engine in the mclaren was bespoke for mclaren. no other BMW ever used that engine.

exclusivity is part and parcel of being a supercar. how exclusive is debatable.
so is superlative (usually straight line and top speed) performance. most lambos from teh 70s and 80s werent so stellar in the handling dept. id say they were just about better than avg.
so is stratopheric cost
and (until recently) practicality be damned.

but there are exceptions.

im not convinced that MR was necessarly a key feature although the cars that defined the segment tended to be.

mi dos centavos

 

[Duke]

Objectively, anyone who thinks Corvettes, going all the way back to the C4 don't hold up well against other sports cars ---even in a race venue that takes away most of their advantages (ie high-speed acceleration/lateral grip )--- is either poorly informed or just in plain denial.

...or just watches too much Top Gear and thinks that Jeremy Clarkson craps vanilla ice cream.

 

[JNasty4G63]

...or just watches too much Top Gear and thinks that Jeremy Clarkson craps vanilla ice cream.

And I think we all know who it is that slurps it all up as well. HA HA

Hilg

 

[niky]

11 pages and counting... this could have been worse.

 

[Elegy]

I'm sure every magazine said it ran less then 8 minutes but really what is the margin of error? What is average time from all the magazines? What is the highest time? What is the lowest time? I want to know stuff like that.

IIRC, the reports are all the same: 7 minutes, 42.9 seconds. No range of figures, just the lone lap time.

 

[Wolfe]

The Corvette has always been the sportscar to Ford and Chrysler's muscle cars. In other words, it's always had decent, if not impressive, handling compared to other cars in its class. Actually, I've never heard of anyone saying otherwise 'till now...

As for the 'Ring time, let's look at other cars with similar times...

7'46" Porsche 911 GT 2 (996), 462 PS, 1450 kg
7'44" Pagani Zonda S, 580 PS, 1820 kg
7'43" Porsche Tech Art GT 2, 620 PS, 1453 kg
7'42" Chevrolet Corvette Z06, 507 PS, 1420 kg
7'32" Porsche Carrera GT, 612 PS, 1473 kg

Seems like it's in the right neighborhood...

 

[///M-Spec]

...or just watches too much Top Gear and thinks that Jeremy Clarkson craps vanilla ice cream.

Too true.


M

 

[Dave A]

Actually bollocks, because JC liked the C6 vette so much he said anyone after a sports car of that price range should put that near the top of their to have a test drive list. Barring the lhd only he thinks theres no reason to put it behind anything else on sale here. Unless you're saying that the C6 Vette is crap.

 

[skicrush]

someone here said they did 90mph around a 90 degree corner in a C4 vette.



i call BS/ shenanigans unless that was an 8 lane rd and they used all the lanes.

It was me, it was a 2 lane back country highway, built decently wide to accomodate combines and other farming equipment, and we used both lanes on both roads.

Having said that, we were stupid high school kids, and like M said, there's not a ton of feel for when you're gonna run out of grip. It was incredibly stupid of us, since the slightest bit of gravel or even a few more mph would have thrown us off the side of the road.

 

[Duke]

Actually bollocks, because JC liked the C6 vette so much he said anyone after a sports car of that price range should put that near the top of their to have a test drive list. Barring the lhd only he thinks theres no reason to put it behind anything else on sale here. Unless you're saying that the C6 Vette is crap.

No, I'm not. And actually, I'm just basing that comment on the fact that most of the British automotive press thinks American cars are "probably OK for America", at best, and that most of the 12-to-20-year-olds on this forum treat the word of Jeremy Clarkson as if it came straight from Moses on the Mount, and will aggressively argue for hours about the dynamic handling characteristics of a car they will never even see in real life, based only on a 30-second comment JC made on TG 6 episodes ago. So I may be being slightly unfair, but only just slightly.

 

[TwinTurboJay]

No, I'm not. And actually, I'm just basing that comment on the fact that most of the British automotive press thinks American cars are "probably OK for America", at best, and that most of the 12-to-20-year-olds on this forum treat the word of Jeremy Clarkson as if it came straight from Moses on the Mount, and will aggressively argue for hours about the dynamic handling characteristics of a car they will never even see in real life, based only on a 30-second comment JC made on TG 6 episodes ago. So I may be being slightly unfair, but only just slightly.

Amen

 

[Young_Warrior]

No, I'm not. And actually, I'm just basing that comment on the fact that most of the British automotive press thinks American cars are "probably OK for America", at best, and that most of the 12-to-20-year-olds on this forum treat the word of Jeremy Clarkson as if it came straight from Moses on the Mount, and will aggressively argue for hours about the dynamic handling characteristics of a car they will never even see in real life, based only on a 30-second comment JC made on TG 6 episodes ago. So I may be being slightly unfair, but only just slightly.

I see what you mean but its not just the british press that has that same opinion.... Just look at the crossfire that gets ripped to shreds even though it is a cheap sports car.

And then theres TV evidence. The presenters say what they dont like and then show us. "ooh its has too much body roll and is crap around corners" camera zooms out of car and shows us evidence to back up statement.

Then theres the tests in which cars are put side to side and compared. You cant fault kiddies from this side saying what they say when everytime they see a US car being compared to something japanese or european it looses.

 

[Driftster]

As for the 'Ring time, let's look at other cars with similar times...

7'46" Porsche 911 GT 2 (996), 462 PS, 1450 kg
7'44" Pagani Zonda S, 580 PS, 1820 kg
7'43" Porsche Tech Art GT 2, 620 PS, 1453 kg
7'42" Chevrolet Corvette Z06, 507 PS, 1420 kg
7'32" Porsche Carrera GT, 612 PS, 1473 kg

Seems like it's in the right neighborhood...

but you left out the GT3RS..
the car with 181less lbs, but 120less HP
the 7.8lbs per HP car that is .1 seconds slower than the

car with 181 more lbs, 120 more hp
the 6.3lbs per HP car that is .1 seconds faster.

 

[Young_Warrior]

were does the m3 csl place? I know it was fairly high. And I swear the pagani zonda doesnt nearly weigh 2 tonnes.

 

[Driftster]

e46 M3 CSL - 7:50

#24 from the top

 

[Duke]

I see what you mean but its not just the british press that has that same opinion.... Just look at the crossfire that gets ripped to shreds even though it is a cheap sports car.

And then theres TV evidence. The presenters say what they dont like and then show us. "ooh its has too much body roll and is crap around corners" camera zooms out of car and shows us evidence to back up statement.

Then theres the tests in which cars are put side to side and compared. You cant fault kiddies from this side saying what they say when everytime they see a US car being compared to something japanese or european it looses.

I rest my case.

 

[Young_Warrior]

^ ahahahha

Me too

 

[Dave A]

No, I'm not. And actually, I'm just basing that comment on the fact that most of the British automotive press thinks American cars are "probably OK for America", at best, and that most of the 12-to-20-year-olds on this forum treat the word of Jeremy Clarkson as if it came straight from Moses on the Mount, and will aggressively argue for hours about the dynamic handling characteristics of a car they will never even see in real life, based only on a 30-second comment JC made on TG 6 episodes ago. So I may be being slightly unfair, but only just slightly.

Actually, your a little off, most of the British press have prasied the new Vette and the new Viper, however most of the British public still hold the view that Vipers and Vettes suck. So you're right when you say that, but more and more people are caring less if a cars American all the time. My only critiscism of the new Vette really is that it's lhd only, which is hardly going to cause a stirr in the US. Some people that awtch TopGear do follow it religousely, me I love the show, but I listen in between all the jokes and fun that goes on too. If I listened to JC and used his opinion I wouldn't be much of a TVR fan .

Ofcourse there are generally rubbish cars built in America, but there is here too, what people get caught up in is the history of the cars. When the US was in it's muscle car era, over here Ferrari was getting into it's stride and Enzo was throwing insults in the direction of a certain tracktor manufacturer. They don't realise that things have changed as much as they have, but going back to TopGear, Americans complain when JC has a go at the next US car to appear on the show, what they fail to notice is that theres very, very few cars he doesn't have poke at, including cars from my fave company, TVR. He doesn't set out to insult American cars exclusvely, but the US cars are rubbish compared to ours is an argument that belongs 6 feet under. Like me and Blazin extreme agreed on, the best value American cars only lose out over here on price, and the cars that beat them on price here, lose out in the US.

I think I've gone a bit off the initial point here.

 

[Dave A]

I see what you mean but its not just the british press that has that same opinion.... Just look at the crossfire that gets ripped to shreds even though it is a cheap sports car

The Crossfire is a bad example though, it's just not a great car. You can find an average cheap sportscar thats built in Japan or Europe if you look and it'll be getting slated all the same. What you'll always find though, is European media having a bias towards European cars, American media having a bias towards American cars and Japanese media ect ect but the truely good cars will get good reviews wherever, the average cars might well get put down a little due to that bias but thats wherever in the world you are and I've been to plenty of places to see this. If you read magazine reviews on the new Vette, even the Cadillac STS (I think thats the one) was given good reviews. I think the biggest difference between US and European cars is the suspension setups. The construction of them generally is pretty much the same in quality, were used to different setups here, it's not a case of that cars rubbish most of the time, it's often a case of the suspension could be a bit stiffer/softer and it's be fine.

 

[Young_Warrior]

the caddys we get a redressed saabs though.Not a true american car as from the word go it was aimed at europe. And we generally like japanese cars quite alot. Tiff needle adores the 350z

 

[Dave A]

Yeah, and JC loves the SRT/10 and C6 Vette, he loves the Holden Commadore too. The only difference betwen the Caddy STS we get and the one in the US is the suspension setup, other than that it's the exact same car.

 

[Elegy]

Quick shunt to the Viper for a second: I recently came upon a source that says Top Gear tested the SRT-10 on a wet track. Is that true?

Back on topic: One thing that gets under my skin is that a lot of the diehard haters really, REALLY grasp at straws to find ways to undermine the Corvette. I mean, look at all the rumors floating around to "explain" or "invalidate" the Z06's N-Ring time:

Rumor 1: The Devil You Know...
Premise: The time wasn't set by a Z06, but a Blue Devil Corvette badged as a Z06.
Reasons given: Well, it was sparked by the very fact that the car Jan was driving was indeed painted in Le Mans Blue Metallic. Also, it's occasionally claimed that somebody heard a supercharger when the engine was running.
Answers: Not much, really...aside from a reminder that the name "Blue Devil" is just a company "code name". It's more than likely true that the Devil IS being tested up there, but the German mag that first reported the time specifically claimed it to be the Z06. It all boils down to what you trust.

Rumor 2: Totally Tweaked Out
Premise: It was a Z06, but the car wasn't really in a stock street setup. Rather, it was specially tuned for the Nordschleife, and the production car will have a different (read: inferior) setup.
Reasons given: The timeframe. Proponents of this theory usually feel that it came too early for a fully stock car to have been assembled and delivered overseas.
Answers: Firstly, this could be true in a way that the haters wouldn't like: the car could have been tuned for the Nordschleife...but that could very well BE the stock setup planned for the car. Second, Jan himself said the car was set up for the street, so again, it's all about what you feel is believable.

Rumor 3: Lies! Lies! Lies!
Premise: The lap time is an absolute sham, a lie conceived by GM to help sell the car.
Reasons given: Varied as hell. One of the more thought-out ones is the fact that GM hasn't released telemetry information from the lap.
Answers: Citing evidence of absence from absence of evidence is a logical fallacy, but unfortunately stuff like this has happened in the past (Porsche and the CGT come to mind...even the driver was in on that). Once again, it all boils down to faith.

The main problem of all this IS that element of "what you believe", since whether we like it or not, the possibility of shenanigans IS there (as I mentioned, it's happened before). And even I can admit that rumors like these do a good job of planting the seeds of doubt. That's also what I hate so much about them.

 

[Duke]

Actually, your a little off, most of the British press have prasied the new Vette and the new Viper, however most of the British public still hold the view that Vipers and Vettes suck. So you're right when you say that, but more and more people are caring less if a cars American all the time.

Well, I was basing my posts on semi-recent Evo reviews of both cars, where they more or less said what I said earlier: "they're not bad cars... for America." However, reviews of both cars nitpicked the handling (and Evo even loves TVRs; but somehow beastly handling and snap oversteer are OK in a British icon) and both said that they would be largely unsuited to most British roads.

My only critiscism of the new Vette really is that it's lhd only, which is hardly going to cause a stirr in the US.

And that's totally valid - I would have to really want a car to consider driving a RHD vehicle here in the US, even if it was only intended to be a track toy. I don't fault anybody for mentioning that point.

They don't realise that things have changed as much as they have, but going back to TopGear, Americans complain when JC has a go at the next US car to appear on the show, what they fail to notice is that theres very, very few cars he doesn't have poke at, including cars from my fave company, TVR. He doesn't set out to insult American cars exclusvely, but the US cars are rubbish compared to ours is an argument that belongs 6 feet under.

Well, we don't get Top Gear over here for the most part, so what we get is the distilled-through-15-year-old-Britons version, who also fail to notice that he pokes at other cars besides American ones. Reference a few who regularly post on this board and in this very thread.

Good answer, though, and I'm glad that not everybody fits the stereotype I'm portraying.

the caddys we get a redressed saabs though.Not a true american car as from the word go it was aimed at europe.

Then again, some do fit the stereotype. At the risk of being overly blunt, do you ever have a clue about what you're typing? Redressed Saabs?! You can't be serious. What, a true American Cadillac has to have whitewall tires, chrome everything, and cow horns for a hood ornament?

Some people's children...

 

[Joey D]

What Caddys are Saab's over in Europe? I honestly don't know but I've never heard of them and I work for GM.

 

[niky]

There's the impression that Vipers aren't fit for British roads. I've never driven one personally, but my cousin reports that his Dad's is a right handful on a bumpy road... tiring to drive on anything but smooth pavement.

Now take that bumpy road, multiply it by ten, and then paste it all over the winding British countryside... you get an idea of why they don't like it there so much. EVO has also lambasted some Brits for being too jittery over B-roads, but yes, they seem particularly sweet on TVRs, even after warning people of snap-oversteer.

 

[TheCracker]

There's the impression that Vipers aren't fit for British roads. I've never driven one personally, but my cousin reports that his Dad's is a right handful on a bumpy road... tiring to drive on anything but smooth pavement.

Now take that bumpy road, multiply it by ten, and then paste it all over the winding British countryside... you get an idea of why they don't like it there so much. EVO has also lambasted some Brits for being too jittery over B-roads, but yes, they seem particularly sweet on TVRs, even after warning people of snap-oversteer.

The fact is that Vettes and Vipers are not optimized for Britain. Vettes are not even officially sold in the UK so no effort has been made by GM to tune them to work on our crappy roads. The biggest market for Vettes, Vipers or any American car is the US, therefore these cars are designed to work best on American roads. I've not read one single review or seen any episode of any motoring show in the UK that has ever said that the Vette or Viper are bad cars. The only criticism they come out with (apart from the fact that they are LHD only) is that the interior quality is poor for the price, or compared to its opposition, and the fact that they aren't really suited for driving on our roads quickly.
TVR's, although often criticised for their 'evil' handling, are designed to be run on British roads since most are sold in Britain. This is why they will always be compared favourably to Vettes and Vipers in british reviews.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Then again, some do fit the stereotype. At the risk of being overly blunt, do you ever have a clue about what you're typing? Redressed Saabs?! You can't be serious. What, a true American Cadillac has to have whitewall tires, chrome everything, and cow horns for a hood ornament?

We do not get the samy caddys as you apart from xlr which is a crap version of the merc sl500 and we get a cts which underneath I believe is a SAAB.

So its not a true american car is it.? Or from now on when we mention the chevy matiz you gys cant say "yeah but its not a true american car".

 

[Famine]

We do not get the samy caddys as you apart from xlr which is a crap version of the merc sl500

Despite GM having nothing to do with DaimlerChrysler - and in fact based on the C6 Corvette.

and we get a cts which underneath I believe is a SAAB.

Nope. The CTS is based on the GM Sigma platform. There was a Saab planned - the 9-7 - to be built on this platform (so really it'd be a Saab which, underneath, was a Cadillac), but it never materialised - the 9-7X concept was instead based on the Chevrolet Trailblazer.

 

[Duke]

The CTS is not a Saab in any way! It's REAR WHEEL DRIVE, for crying out loud! Have there EVER been any rear wheel drive Saabs, ever?! It comes with an available V8! It's 100% engineered in the US!

And the XLR is not a Mercedes SLR... Daimler-Benz owns CHRYSLER, not Cadillac.

You truly have no idea what you're talking about, and you're quite insistent that you do. That's not a good combination.

EDIT: All right, I apologize. You partly win on this one - serves me right for going off half-cocked. But it's called the BLS, not the CTS, which is exactly as I described it.

Stupid on Cadillac's part; stupid on my part.