Top ranking players handbraking? (M4 Seasonal)

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NixxxoN
I didnt say anything about "sad or desperate" just people with a lot of free time on their hands. I think the vast majority of players spend about... less than half an hour? trying to set a good time and that's it. Because people have stuff to do and can't spends lots of hours trying to set really good times just for the sake of it
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Playing any game is just for the sake of it, presumably because that's how one enjoys spending time. There is no real tangible reward yet millions of people spend hundreds of hours doing it. If some people enjoy spending most of their allotted spare time chasing tenths on a TT, fair go. If you don't want to, fair go. No-one's judging you for not putting the effort in are they? The mere existence of your post implies the desire for solidarity with others who feel that anyone who spends more time than you do on a TT is wasting their time. I already admitted you're probably not the only one but you are currently the one making the most fuss about it, even extending this 'debate' to justify your judgemental angle. OK, we get it. Next...

Oh yeah, one more thing. "Practise makes perfect" It isn't just a cliche.
 
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eran0004
Okay. I guess we'll know for sure when/if the time trials comes with SRF forced off. If the fastest guys are still handbraking, then I guess it's more or less proven.
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It was already proven in the final TT of the GTA 2013 (GT6 physics)

NixxxoN
I think I choose the wrong word. I mean, by doing a great time in some event (by repeating it 1000 times) it won't make you automatically a great driver.
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Yeah, it won't make you a great driver but it will make you a better one, what do you think is the purpose of training?
 
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Vagabond
Playing any game is just for the sake of it, presumably because that's how one enjoys spending time. There is no real tangible reward yet millions of people spend hundreds of hours doing it. If some people enjoy spending most of their allotted spare time chasing tenths on a TT, fair go. If you don't want to, fair go. No-one's judging you for not putting the effort in are they? The mere existence of your post implies the desire for solidarity with others who feel that anyone who spends more time than you do on a TT is wasting their time. I already admitted you're probably not the only one but you are currently the one making the most fuss about it, even extending this 'debate' to justify your judgemental angle. OK, we get it. Next...

Oh yeah, one more thing. "Practise makes perfect" It isn't just a cliche.
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I suppose you are one of those who spend a lot of time trying to improve times then, because you seem to get offended by my words and I dont know why?
And yes, people can do what they want, I never said otherwise... :odd:
 
NixxxoN
I suppose you are one of those who spend a lot of time trying to improve times then, because you seem to get offended by my words and I dont know why?
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Funny how judgemental people never seem to understand why it irritates others. Now you're judging me because I chose to call you out for it. :rolleyes: In answer to your question, which I'm assuming you wanted an answer to, I'll usually spend between 2 and 4 hours on a TT I enjoy, less if I don't. I did 5 laps with the M4 and that was enough for me.

No I'm not offended. Irritated but not offended.
 
Use of the handbrake in a car on a tight hairpin (and tighter than just about any you would find on a race track) is a valid technique and can make for quicker cornering, however in anything but that its going to be slower (your exceeding the optimum slip angle of the tyres - that will always be slower). With the seasonal races its still being used by some (particularly with SRF) in the majority, if not all corners, and its not realistic at all.

Even on the Togue runs Dori-Dori doesn't use it on every corner (and I have seen pretty much all the BMi stuff) or for every car.

GT6 has moved the tyre physics on quite some way from GT5, but issues with a lack of realistic speed loss from tyre scrub is still with us (and its what allows this to be used to such a degree).
 
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eclipsee
Yeah, it won't make you a great driver but it will make you a better one, what do you think is the purpose of training?
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I would say the best way of "training" or "practicing" is simply to play a lot and do a lot of races, instead of simply focussing on one specific event, with one specific car, at one specific track.
 
I'm not asking what do you think is the best way of "training" or "practicing", I'm asking you what do you think training is for.

Thanks anyway.
 
NixxxoN
I would say the best way of "training" or "practicing" is simply to play a lot and do a lot of races, instead of simply focussing on one specific event, with one specific car, at one specific track.
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Do you want to work on your precision, or your overall game knowledge?(like learning tracks and cars specifically)
Depending how you answer that, is how you'll want to "train". ;)

You'd do well to know that "precision" training does carry over to general use. As your inputs become increasingly precise and calculated, from said practice, you'll run faster and faster laps on other tracks and with different cars.(I recommend joining the WRS for at least 10 weeks)
 
NixxxoN
Yeah, but in real life drivers don't try 1000 times the same thing over and over again until they do it perfect.
I mean doing so wont make you a better driver... the important is to do well and be fast ON THE FIRST TRY, in any situation. Not a couple of times out of lots of tries.
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I beg to differ. I practice sometimes up to 10 hours a day and it has definitely made me a better driver. Read my sig, that's how I roll. Also, how do you think you are going to get good enough to be able to do it on the first try.....I''ll answer that for you, its called practice. ;) Besides, I have rarely, if ever seen anyone get their top time on their first try. They have to run some laps first, get into their groove, then set their best time. And I don't care who you are or how good you are, there is always improvement to be had.
 
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Practice doesn't make perfect, Practice makes permanent.

You gotta learn to do something new or better in order to improve or perfect your technique, otherwise you're just rehashing and fixating bad habits which make you slower.

For those of you that watched Initial-D that is what Bunta was doing all along with Takumi. By throwing him all sorts of curve balls (restrictions like the water cup, weather, changes in car setup, tuning, stronger opponents, etc) he got him to be the best. That's really how you get closer to perfection, through experimentation first and the practicing what works after, not just doing the same thing over and over.
Very few drivers out there (if any) have reached point of perfection where they just need seat time and nothing else to learn.

just my 2c.
 
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DCP
SRF is optional, but I expect PD to insert a tab for a leaderboard without SRF.
Rally drivers use E-brakes, so I don't see why it's an issue if used in GT6. As long as there is no funny glitches or tricks to gain an advantage.
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The problem is these are not rally events. They are paved surfaces using cars that do not benefit form this type of driving. No racing car driver uses a handbrake to set fast laps on the tracks in gt6 because in real life its slower. If this type of driving is faster in gt6 it means there is a problem with the physics system.

The only time you would use a handbrake is if you make a mistake and need to change direction of the car quickly.
 
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EAGLE 5
Practice doesn't make perfect, Practice makes permanent.

You gotta learn to do something new or better in order to improve or perfect your technique, otherwise you're just rehashing and fixating bad habits which make you slower.

For those of you that watched Initial-D that is what Bunta was doing all along with Takumi. By throwing him all sorts of curve balls (restrictions like the water cup, weather, changes in car setup, tuning, stronger opponents, etc) he got him to be the best. That's really how you get closer to perfection, through experimentation first and the practicing what works after, not just doing the same thing over and over.
Very few drivers out there (if any) have reached point of perfection where they just need seat time and nothing else to learn.

just my 2c.
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No human can ever reach perfection, so no there are not any. The human body is too variable to be able to pull of the same actions repetitively with consistency. This is why even professional sports players hit the nets in tennis, miss shots in basketball etc. If perfection was truly achievable there would be people that have never made a mistakes and basketball would be a game where players shoot immediately after getting the ball from anywhere in the court get it through the net every time.
 
xSNAKEx
No human can ever reach perfection, so no there are not any. The human body is too variable to be able to pull of the same actions repetitively with consistency. This is why even professional sports players hit the nets in tennis, miss shots in basketball etc. If perfection was truly achievable there would be people that have never made a mistakes and basketball would be a game where players shoot immediately after getting the ball from anywhere in the court get it through the net every time.
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Indeed, even monkeys fall from trees. We should strive for perfection but we must be willing to accept that we as humans will never achieve it.

Those that don't usually are major d-bags.
 
Agree that handbraking on tarmac courses should not take place at all. It's just not real and it can be dangerous for other cars. And looks stupid :p

It seems that PD is not the only company that has problems with that particular aspect of their game.

Although i know that Codemasters' GRID 2 is by no means game that can be compared to GT6, but it has been totally broken by bad physics model that allowed to turn faster by doing the drift. Literally every corner could be done faster by tapping e-brake or performing scandinavian flick. It is a game breaking thing for most of original GRID fans as it is almost impossible to race bumper to bumper in the middle of sliding.

Of course devs have never admitted it was a bug and done nothing.
 
I tried to improve my laptime @ Nurburgring M4 coupé event and i managed to do an improvable 2:14.510, but then when I saw the top records have been made with SRF on, I tried and I could do 3 seconds or even more better in the first attempt without a true clue on how the car could work with that aid on (aborted the lap before the finish line to not "mud" my ranking with that stupid driving aid)...
Conclusion: I won't try anymore to beat other ppl knowing that most of the top 10.000 drivers are using a driving aid that don't even exist on the reality...
I only use ABS: 1 and when i forgot to turn it off (not intentional so), like in the recent S2000 event, i use the TCS: 5... If another player is better than me because use a TCS on a R18 TDI or a Veyron, i'm ok because actually the real car have it, it's just me that don't want to use... But SRF that don't truly exist IRL... Meh, this makes me a bit upset...

Handbraking? Yes, it's a game and because of it u can abuse, but true car fanatics like me knows that actually use a handbrake in a GT / supercar @ 200-300 Km/h just destroy tires and even the brake itself, meaning that you are 90% of the time at the box to repair the car or change tires with new ones... Tell me how can you actually improve your laptime if the time u spend on the track it's non-continuous and so little...
 
xSNAKEx
The problem is these are not rally events. They are paved surfaces using cars that do not benefit form this type of driving. No racing car driver uses a handbrake to set fast laps on the tracks in gt6 because in real life its slower. If this type of driving is faster in gt6 it means there is a problem with the physics system.

The only time you would use a handbrake is if you make a mistake and need to change direction of the car quickly.
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Perhaps SRF warrants Ebrake to benefit racers, and also note that it is so easy to flick pull the handbrak with the touch of a button on the fly, compared to having to pull the hand brake with one hand while trying to control the wheel with the other. I understand your point, but all GT6 will ever be is a game with endless flaws unfortunately.
 
I've driven a Peugeot rally car and when using the handbrake to corner you hold the wheel on half lock and then use the handbrake to control the steering as you power through the corner. Applying more handbrake turns more sharply and vice-versa.

The major problem with the handbrake in Gran Turismo (and most driving games) is that it isn't graduated, it's either on or off. Even if you map the handbrake to an analogue stick it is still on or off (or at least it was in gt5).
 
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