Toyota Gets SMART With the iQ; Sells it as a Scion in the US

  • Thread starter YSSMAN
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niky
That's something though... like Toyota, I'd like to know what objective criteria a car has to meet to have "acceptable" all-around visibility, because, quite frankly, a lot of brand new cars are rubbish in this regard, anyway.
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I've had a sit in an iQ and it's pretty awful as far as visibility goes. The rear window is like a post-box slot (and that's after you've removed the two rear seat headrests...) and although it wraps around, all that does is moves your blind-spots to a different area of the car. And even so, it still has C-pillars and they aren't exactly thin. And the side windows are quite small, again not helped by the large B-pillar.

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In comparison, the Smart ForTwo (which I've also had a poke around) also mentioned in the article is much better. There's more glass everywhere you look - deeper windscreen and side windows, and the rear glass looks about twice the depth of the one on the iQ. And there are no rear headrests because there are no rear seats.

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No current small cars have visibility like they used to, but most of them are significantly better than the iQ.
 
niky
That's something though... like Toyota, I'd like to know what objective criteria a car has to meet to have "acceptable" all-around visibility, because, quite frankly, a lot of brand new cars are rubbish in this regard, anyway.
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This. Given the UK's nature to want to ban anything that could be different or not as safe, I'd want to know why they restricted it as well, or at least more details to the evaluation.
 
I've waited and waited for something interesting about this to post, sadly there isn't.

This car is just fail. First its a modern Toyota which is automatically fail because of the lack of soul and fun. Second, while this may be a little city car I can't see this being better than a Ford Ka or Smart just for the extra build quality associated with these two. Seriously, Toyota is just retarded. Someone have a time machine so we can go back to 1992 when Toyota was actually worth something?

The ugliness alone is enough to hate it, but seriously, does Toyota expect this thing to actually do well? Most people will opt for the Aygo just because its not that much more and it has more room and will probably have the same fuel economy. The iQ seems gimmicky to me.
 
I'm sort of with you on that one.

I really need to try and have a go in the Smart and the iQ to see which one really would be worth considering, because for all it's apparent advantages, the iQ seems like a ridiculously compromised car and doesn't have the image the Smart does - although Smart has plenty of haters, it's also a company for whom a certain percentage of the population would never consider anything else. Would a certain percentage be the same with regard to the iQ? I'm not so sure. I'd suspect that car buyers today don't see Toyota as a "fun" brand like Smart is, mainly because the big T doesn't produce anything like the MR2 or Celica any more.

Would I buy the current Ka over the iQ? Probably not, as it's an insult to my eyes and a crushing disappointment to the ethos of the original Ka. But against the old Ka the iQ doesn't stand a chance, in my eyes, even though it's a significantly older design and can trace it's platform back to the 80s.

Toyota have missed a big trick with the car. Firstly, they've failed to fit it with the 1.4 turbodiesel from the Aygo which apparently averages 70mpg (and manages that on shorter gearing than the iQ).

Secondly, they've failed to fit that with a scaled-down hybrid powertrain as you'd find in the larger Prius. The two combined would be capable of staggering fuel efficiency whether in the city or on the open roads. A couple of guys on the old iQ blog managed to get 72mpg (UK) over a 504 mile journey, and that was just in the 1.0 petrol version. Now consider the improvement they might have gained in a diesel. And then consider the improvement they might have gained had all their in-town driving been done on electric motor alone, and you'll see what I'm getting at. 90mpg (or more) might have been within reach.

I should work for Toyota.
 
Actually... not having driven it... I'd love to give it a go.

CAR did a group test with this, the Aygo, the 500 and the Smart... and this one came out on top...

Clever packaging, better driving dynamics than the rear-drive Smart... name me one other modern front driver with the engine behind the front axle, where it belongs? It's subzero just for that fact.
 
niky
name me one other modern front driver with the engine behind the front axle, where it belongs? It's subzero just for that fact.
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So it's technically mid-engined then? Brilliant. Hopefully Toyota starts getting back on form with their driving experiences, even if the, erm. . . user-interface (?) is somewhat stifled. Eyes forward, anyway.
 
Not sure about the bumper cover, but those are pretty cool headlights. 👍 I like the Scion-look. Could get interesting.
 
Front mid-engined... It's the best way to get the weight balance on a FWD correct without sacrificing too much traction...

From what I can gather from reviews... the steering is typical for cars in this class... terrible... but the car has its dynamic values... besides, terrible electric steering doesn't keep me from loving the Honda Fit.
 
homeforsummer
I'm sort of with you on that one.

I really need to try and have a go in the Smart and the iQ to see which one really would be worth considering, because for all it's apparent advantages, the iQ seems like a ridiculously compromised car and doesn't have the image the Smart does - although Smart has plenty of haters, it's also a company for whom a certain percentage of the population would never consider anything else. Would a certain percentage be the same with regard to the iQ? I'm not so sure. I'd suspect that car buyers today don't see Toyota as a "fun" brand like Smart is, mainly because the big T doesn't produce anything like the MR2 or Celica any more.

Would I buy the current Ka over the iQ? Probably not, as it's an insult to my eyes and a crushing disappointment to the ethos of the original Ka. But against the old Ka the iQ doesn't stand a chance, in my eyes, even though it's a significantly older design and can trace it's platform back to the 80s.

Toyota have missed a big trick with the car. Firstly, they've failed to fit it with the 1.4 turbodiesel from the Aygo which apparently averages 70mpg (and manages that on shorter gearing than the iQ).

Secondly, they've failed to fit that with a scaled-down hybrid powertrain as you'd find in the larger Prius. The two combined would be capable of staggering fuel efficiency whether in the city or on the open roads. A couple of guys on the old iQ blog managed to get 72mpg (UK) over a 504 mile journey, and that was just in the 1.0 petrol version. Now consider the improvement they might have gained in a diesel. And then consider the improvement they might have gained had all their in-town driving been done on electric motor alone, and you'll see what I'm getting at. 90mpg (or more) might have been within reach.

I should work for Toyota.
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A diesel power plant in this car would be the smart thing to do other than getting a hybrid drivetrain under the bonnet. But even still, this car has no "want" factor. Its a boring grey utility knife with a 10mm blade. Yes it cuts things but not very well. I want Toyota to go bonkers with this thing like Merc did with the Smart. The Smart looks funky inside and out and is just crazy, tall and skinny with a rear engine rear wheel drive drivetrain. It looks ludicrous while still being functional and reliable. I don't know, I'm just not convinced this is worth even producing. Just buy an Aygo and get the extra space. *shrugs*
 
JCE
A diesel power plant in this car would be the smart thing to do other than getting a hybrid drivetrain under the bonnet. But even still, this car has no "want" factor. Its a boring grey utility knife with a 10mm blade. Yes it cuts things but not very well. I want Toyota to go bonkers with this thing like Merc did with the Smart. The Smart looks funky inside and out and is just crazy, tall and skinny with a rear engine rear wheel drive drivetrain. It looks ludicrous while still being functional and reliable. I don't know, I'm just not convinced this is worth even producing. Just buy an Aygo and get the extra space. *shrugs*
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Did your mother get hit by an iQ or something? The iQ is a billion times better than the Smart. CAR and TopGear love it, and I think it is one of the smartest things Toyota has done in decades. It's a great little car, just like the Smart should have been.
 
SagarisGTB
Did your mother get hit by an iQ or something? The iQ is a billion times better than the Smart. CAR and TopGear love it, and I think it is one of the smartest things Toyota has done in decades. It's a great little car, just like the Smart should have been.
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Being a million times better than a total piece of silly doesn't mean much.
 
SagarisGTB
Did your mother get hit by an iQ or something? The iQ is a billion times better than the Smart. CAR and TopGear love it, and I think it is one of the smartest things Toyota has done in decades. It's a great little car, just like the Smart should have been.
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You want to edit your post to take out the personal attack about my mother which is a violation of the AUP?
 
That's not a personal attack. I don't even consider that an insult. Let's play nice. :)
 
There is no reason to bring anyone's family members into a post, it adds to only irritate and bait me to flame him back. It was inappropriate.
 
This is a misunderstanding, trust me. That was a way for someone to wonder(out loud) why something is becoming so personal.
 
JCE
There is no reason to bring anyone's family members into a post, it adds to only irritate and bait me to flame him back. It was inappropriate.
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It was rather amusing and not very much of an attack on you at all. You seem to have a rather large amount of hate towards this car that would appear to reside on a personal level, as if the car had done something to you. He was commenting on that in a clever way...

Take a chill pill, come back in 10.
 
SagarisGTB
Did your mother get hit by an iQ or something? The iQ is a billion times better than the Smart. CAR and TopGear love it, and I think it is one of the smartest things Toyota has done in decades. It's a great little car, just like the Smart should have been.
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Exactly how is it better than the Smart? I'd be interested to know. It's certainly not cheaper and it's also (personal opinion coming up) no better looking. If anything, it's less distinctive. It's not available with a diesel which is daft in Europe, and as has been mentioned it has very poor visibility which is daft in a city car. And it's relatively wide, which is daft in a city car.

Of course, the Smart has it's shortcomings too - it has a stupid gearbox and would have been better off with a straight manual or auto as opposed to an amalgamation of the two. It doesn't handle particularly well and as you go up the range it starts to look expensive.

Essentially, they're both fairly compromised city cars and in most situations, the majority of people would be better off getting a normal city car like a Fiat Panda or Toyota's own Aygo. But, neither of these cars has "the image" that the iQ/Smart do. Both the iQ and the Smart are trying to do something new (though of course, the Smart "did something new" a good ten years before Toyota got up off their fat corporate arse).

All things considered when you want half city car, half trinket, I think the Smart is the better car on a subjective level. It's more distinctive, has a better reputation in the market preceeding it, and the interior is a more airy space and covered in light and colourful trim rather than a dark chocolate brown with little glass area. It has an air of fun, and if you're spending your time driving around a city you're going to want to be in a car that makes you feel good, as much of the time you're going to be at a standstill or at a crawl anyway.

What I really need to do is drive them both. I'd forgotten I'd been meaning to but they're both cars that interest me so it'd be foolish not to.
 
The 1.3 showed up in Japan for '10, too. Previously, I think it's only been in uplevel models in Europe.

Now, what will...and can...TRD offer me for this one?
 
Philly
I wonder if they'll actually sell any or if it'll end up as a showy plaything like the Smart.
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Being that it seats four and actually has an engine that will power it down the street, it seems fairly likely that the car will sell at least moderately well. If they can keep the pricing in check.
 
-> I really do hope that they bring the Manny-Stick (aka. M/T). I'd still pick this over the Smart. :)
 
YSSMAN
Being that it seats four and actually has an engine that will power it down the street, it seems fairly likely that the car will sell at least moderately well. If they can keep the pricing in check.
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Except it doesn't, and it won't have. It's technically got 3.5 seats, and no engine with any American levels of potency is going to actually fit. That said, the Smart ForTwo seems to be selling OK with 70hp under the bonnet, and generally anyone who wants more isn't going to be interested in a car 2ft long anyway.
 
Well, if you're seating more than two, you're going to have a better chance than the ForTwo for continued success. The Smart got out of the gates and did very well at first, but sales have almost entirely collapsed. People must have figured out that the practicality of the car is nill outside of town. That, and the new B-segment cars will entirely negate the need for them.

*sigh*

I like the iQ, its a nifty little car. Actually, it would be almost perfect for my Mother. I wouldn't mind hooning it either.
 
American practicality is very different from European practicality, Brad. Sales have collapsed since the early adopters all own their Smarts now, and the rest of America think that they'd be killed in one if they bump into someone when they're parking.

Most Smarts available in the UK today have performance as good or better than my old Fiesta did. Despite the crummy gearboxes you get with them. In a European city, even the 45bhp that the pre-fettled diesel Smart had is enough. 0-60 and top speed are utterly irrelevant in a city car, and as pretty much all standard cars get to 30mph within a few seconds of each other anyway, a Smart or a 1.0 litre iQ are more than capable of holding their own.

Of course, in the States with large distances involved, they make a lot less sense.

As for physical practicality, I've always thought the current 451 Smart actually has a pretty big boot for such a tiny car. And you'd have to be some sort of freak of nature to be too big to fit behind the wheel.

The iQ is a bit more "cosy", I think. Though it apparently does a good job of feeling like a big car to drive, because it's quite wide and has a reasonable interior. You forget until you look in your rear mirror to see that the screen is right behind you...
 
That's the thing... Americans will be all over the fact that its small like a Smart, but seats four, and actually drives like what they'd perceive to be a "normal" vehicle. The trick is going to be pricing it properly. I have no idea if Toyota has the means to undercut the Yaris with this or not.
 
YSSMAN
That's the thing... Americans will be all over the fact that its small like a Smart, but seats four, and actually drives like what they'd perceive to be a "normal" vehicle. The trick is going to be pricing it properly. I have no idea if Toyota has the means to undercut the Yaris with this or not.
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That's how Toyota UK have played it - it's essentially £200 less than a basic Yaris, and comes with a raft more kit. It's marginally quicker to 60 too.

So naturally everyone's still buying a Yaris.
 
Can you really blame them? The iQ is ridiculously expensive for such a small car. A Yaris offers so much more for the money, even if it's not that special a design compared to the iQ. If you put an equivalent-engined Aygo next to an iQ, it'd be about £2k cheaper. Probably more. For something with two more doors and a bigger interior. And probably cheaper to repair too.

Of course my money wouldn't go on any of the Toyotas, it'd go on a Smart.
 

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