TRD Celica Vs. Spoon Civic Comparison

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Ryen49

Ryen49

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Me and Rollazn decided to make an FF comparison using the TRD Celica and the Spoon Civic. We fully modded both cars the Civic had 336hp and the Celica had 309hp. We ran the test at Deep forest and the following results show that racing isnt all about hp.
Spoon Civic info:
336hp
redline at 16,000rpms
Drive Shifted at 16,0000
Top Speed :149mph
Total Lap Time:1:20.432

TRD Celica info:
309hp
Redline at 7500rpms
Driver Shifted at 7,500rpms
Top Speed:137mph
Total Lap time:1'21.808

Total Lap time difference:1.376 secs

Sector Speed in mph
sectorspeed.jpg


Sector Time in Seconds
sectortime.jpg


Avg Speed in mph
sectoravgspeed.jpg



Note: This test was conducted in free run mode with a rolling start
aslo as you can see from the results a lower hp car can still keep up with a higher even though we set an hp limit of 350. The trd can totally go over that but the spoon was at max hp.
 
Yes.. it was a very intense match.. i wanted to win but couldnt.. i guess with 309hp it did its best :) i could have fully modified it to 425hp but there was a limit of 350 and closest i got was 309 anyways Ryen did a nice job..
 
You know, you guys might have different racing styles.That could affect the outcome of the comparison. What you could do is either switch the cars up and race again, or have one guy get his best times with both cars.
 
cant have over 350hp... No doubt me and ryen have different racing style everybody do, its just that we did it for fun and thats the outcome.
 
Originally posted by rollazn
cant have over 350hp... No doubt me and ryen have different racing style everybody do, its just that we did it for fun and thats the outcome.
Click to expand...

well done guys!

hey what would the outcome be if you swaped cars?

:)
just an idea
 
wat about the weight dif between the 2 cars?

and just curious:
was that a screw up that the Spoon CTR revs to 16k rpm in GT3? or is that true in for the real life Spoon EK9-R's also???
 
yeah we should switch maybe we'll do that tomm. :D anyways there is a weight different probably.. dont really know which weighs more or less after all that weight reduction.. etc..
 
Can I get in on this test?
I don't know if I can get any closer to the HP limits, but I'd love to try.:D
I'll even post up a write up.
I also think you guys should swap cars as well.
Another thought, did you tweek the trannies at all or did you just equip and run?
I believe that the Civic is faster all the way round, but it would be fun to play with the Celica a bit.
 
Well, really, with a 350 hp limit and a limited number of test drivers, your not really getting an even test.

I personally would still think the honda would take the win, but I just wanted to make the point that I don't think the test was accurate.

If I was gonna do this test, I would use a power to weight ratio standard rather than a hp standard. Keeping the cars even on a pwr ratio is more important than keeping the cars even on a hp level.

I think it would be best to acknowledge the potential of both. If you fully exploit the potential of one car, then hold another car below its potential, all your gonna end up with is a skewed test.

Im interested in this, so I might do a test tonight... if that happens, I will be back with my results.

Till then, later. :D
 
This one got my interest, so I got fairly fresh specimens on the truck and headed out to Deep Forest.
First off, for the TRD Celica. I opted not to do the port/polish, and balance. That allowed me to get the little beast to 340HP (318HP in the replay) Call it Flywheel HP vs. Wheel HP.

Anyway, I tuned the suspension pretty stiff. Did the tranny trick, and set my final drive to 3.93. Then I took her out for a few laps.

First, the little Toyota is pretty quick. I was able to turn a 1'20 my first lap.
My best with the little beast was 1'19.803. Then I turned a butt load of 1'19.86X's I gave up at that point.

Unloaded the Spoon CTR. Mine had 336HP (315 in replay). Tuned her pretty stiff also. I also did the transmission trick with the Civic, and ran the final drive to 3.93 also.
I chased the Celica's ghost, and smoked it on the first lap.
I kept running cause that first lap was sloppy.
Cleaning up the laps brough me a 1'18.473. As I was more than a full second ahead of the Celica, I quit.

When I re-ran the Celica, just to be sure, I saw some places to improve the time with the Civic. I'll not be doing any more laps tonite.
Cool challenge though!👍
 
Ok, first off, for some reason, my civic only made 326hp, but whatever. (and yes, I made sure I bought ever up-grade)

Anyway, this is how it laid out in terms of a comparo... of course, I went with what I thought was a more even comparison and did an "even" pwr rather than an even hp.

So...

Civic
326 hp
820 kg
2.515 pwr
.327 twr

Celica
401 hp
1014 kg
2.528 pwr
.284 twr

That means...
The civic is 194 kg less
The celica has 75 more hp
The celica has the torque/weight ratio advantage also.

Times at deep forest. (I did 2, 3 lap sessions with each... one to get a feel, the next to fine tune the settings and get a good run.)

Celica @ deep forest I
1.15.888 (after only 2 laps, nothing further was needed)

Civic @ deep forest I
1.15.890 (after 2 laps into the second session)

Basically, both cars had the same setup (relative to the possible ride height, spring rate, etc.)

In the end, the celica had less understeer (even with the extra power), however, the celica was way "twitchier."

I would say that with equal pwr the cars are just about even at first, but with extended work the celica would always pull ahead.

However, in terms of which one would be easier to take to victory, the civic's control is far superiour to the celica's. I would say the civic is the way to go if your looking for the quick ff win, but the celica is the one for anyone searching for the best ff in the game. (besides the xsara)

Btw, a much more fitting comparo would be the honda integra type R vs the celica. (now those are some mean front wheel drivers.)
 
Nice comparison both of you but gokent you forgot about the 350hp limit for the Celica. With the extra power it gave you a boost. Nice time with the civic tho. Me and Ryen always do these kind of comparison or "battle" so we call it. Its nice fun and challenging. We always give fair time, we dont mind who win or lose its all for fun. Its just like OLR, but we do it one on one. this is a great comparison and look out for more in the future.

Maybe we need more drivers to be accurate ;)
 
That's interesting. If you drive the Spoon Civic in GT4 Prologue it pits you and three other EK9s against two TRD Sports-M Celicas. The Celicas always get trounced. ;)
 
Horsepower by itself is a meaningless number. When applied to something else it obtains a meaning. A number that is only just now gaining popularity in the real world automotive world is horsepower per ton. This gives a number that is usually similar to HP and gives real comparisons between vehicles. For you non-US people you multiply kg by 2.2 and divide by 2000 to get the vehicle weight in tons. Then divide hp by wieght in tons.

If you do this these two vehicles come out to:
Spoon Civic 372.5 hp/t
TRD Celica 277.0 hp/t

So the Civic really should spank the Celicas.
 
Originally posted by rollazn
gokent you forgot about the 350hp limit for the Celica. With the extra power it gave you a boost.
Click to expand...

He wasn't going for a BHP limit, he was getting them to as close a pwr as possible, while the Celica had more power it's alot heavier so the pwr was similar for the two cars, if you give tem both the same bhp the Civic should be faster cos it's alot lighter than the Celica.
 
yeah... the comparison we did.. my celica weights more and less power and my time is quite close so with teh same amount of power i should be able to get the civic right :D Ryen is a good driver too
 
when doing a comparo using PWR i've found that the car with the most power is usually the quickest 9 times out of 10
 
It would depend on the track, if it's a fast track then the extra power would make a difference, if it's a tight twisty track the the reduced weight would be more to your advantage.
 
it's not the power, it's the [ower to weight ratio, the one w/ the lower power to weight ration will usually win. But alot of times i can beat a car w/ better power to weight ratio w/ better suspension mods and tunning......
 
Power provides better top end performance (max speed) so on a high speed circuit (power circuit???) like deep forest the celica should be faster...which gokents proves with his comparison (if only just)
 
Well obviously my pwr testing took an effect on the board.

First off, that hp-per-ton thing is not really a fair setup. Just look at it and notice that the civic was rated at something like 372hp per ton, but the civic only makes *326.

So where does that number come from.... oh, well that would be the fact that you can do the math, but the math fills in the hp for a full ton, which is exactly what the civic doesn't weigh.

If the civic did weigh in at 1 ton, the power to wieght ratio would carry it to 370 something hp, but thats not how it works, so lets just stick to the normal pwr for the time being. (and comparsion purposes)

Anyway, I wanted to talk about this idea of power winning over pwr.

Basically, I agree and disagree.

Take the vanquish vs the stock vertigo.

The vanquish has more hp, yet the vertigo is gonna win everytime hands down.

However, as gravel trap pointed out, when the cars have a similar pwr, the car with the most hp usually wins. Take the weekly series race from tokyo that occured a few weeks back... the vertigo ran in a similar pwr class as the supras but couldn't win it out just because the supras had almost 200 extra hp.

Anyway, I also want someone to check that spoon's power... I only got 326 and don't see why.

But yeah... um... this is a fun little comparo, but in my opinion the spoon civic is more of a car for personal taste than a car to take the overall best front wheel drive car.

Oh yeah, I forgot, one thing that skews a stock car testing is the fact that the civic is far more tuned than the celica.

btw, I think of deepforest as more of a twisty circuit than a power circuit. (but the back straight sure is made for some power ;) )
 
Originally posted by GoKents

Btw, a much more fitting comparo would be the honda integra type R vs the celica. (now those are some mean front wheel drivers.)
Click to expand...

I'm on it! Back in a bit with my results.
One 350 HP ITR coming up.:D

*edit*
I ran both Integras (Acura and Honda)
I managed to Spank the Celica with both of them. Moreso with the Honda. But then it is 99Kg lighter.:D

Honda ITR: 1'18.061
Acura ITR: 1'19.263

Same set-up for both cars. Enjoyed them both.
 

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