Trying to get that coveted Spoon Civic

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anderton Prime
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ledhed
FF is the worst drivetrain for handling and accelleration. You can use technique and technology to improve it somewhat but you can not overcome physics. Even in the game the 400m times for FF cars are slower than equal wieght /hp ratio cars in FR/RR/4wd. The handling speaks for itself, if you conquer severe understeer you can get a descent time through the corner , but you will lose out in the straight due to poor accelleration compared to another drivetrain type. The cars exist in the real world and its something else to drive . also I need to drive them to get 100% and I like some of them. These are the only reasons I can see to use the things. Never " I'm driving my FF because it will kick butt " Yea right...
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THIS is the most accurate thing said so far (well, not including things I've said, obviously)

Remember that ledhed said "All things being equal, FF is the worst drivetrain" and that is absolutely true. Pit two identical cars against each other, but one FR and one FF (in case you think this can't be done, just grab an Xport and hybrid them - hell, hybrid all the drivetrains) and you'll see that the FF will be the slowest. This doesn't equate to "FF is crap". It's simple fact.


What do I drive in real life? A front-wheel drive coupe.
 
i think its fun to drive slower cars on this game, because then it takes actual skill to beat a race rather then speed, but i completely agree with you famine. i also drive a ff sedan (buick regals kick %#$)
 
Famine
THIS is the most accurate thing said so far (well, not including things I've said, obviously)

Remember that ledhed said "All things being equal, FF is the worst drivetrain" and that is absolutely true. Pit two identical cars against each other, but one FR and one FF (in case you think this can't be done, just grab an Xport and hybrid them - hell, hybrid all the drivetrains) and you'll see that the FF will be the slowest. This doesn't equate to "FF is crap". It's simple fact.


What do I drive in real life? A front-wheel drive coupe.
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I agree with u to a point.... overal FR is superior to FF.. but i think the difference becomes obvious more aroudn 250hp...

in a drag race... assuming everything is equal.. the FF will put 5-10% more power to the Ground then the FR counterpart.. and 15-20% more then it's 4wd counterpart..

so more WHP means it should be faster...

till abotu 250hp.. after that.. FF traction really becomes an issue is a street car.. and that's when FR takes over...

i'd say best of both would be MR... less static losses with the benefit of Rear wheel traction... 👍

(mind u this is only straight line performance not handlin that is more a no brainer :P)
 
With a FF the weight transfers to the rear causing the car to lose traction during accelleration the more power the greater the loss. with FR the weight transfers rearward to the driving wheels improving traction.
 
ledhed
With a FF the weight transfers to the rear causing the car to lose traction during accelleration the more power the greater the loss. with FR the weight transfers rearward to the driving wheels improving traction.
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yes a I agree.. hence the "250hp" border/limit before the scales start tipping
 
No - that's mixing the issue of torque-steer into the equation.

Simply put, an FF will accelerate at a decreasing rate the more power you put into it, purely because the effort of accelerating shifts the centre of mass backwards and thus, in the case of FFs, off the drive wheels. The more power you put in, the less reward you see...

Of course trying to put 200hp through the drive wheels while they're also supposed to be steering is a "bad thing" and you'll be fighting to keep the car in a straight line from that point upwards. Sadly, no-one told Alfa Romeo, who put 263hp through their 147 GTA & 156 GTA's front-wheels...
 
Famine
No - that's mixing the issue of torque-steer into the equation.

Simply put, an FF will accelerate at a decreasing rate the more power you put into it, purely because the effort of accelerating shifts the centre of mass backwards and thus, in the case of FFs, off the drive wheels. The more power you put in, the less reward you see...

Of course trying to put 200hp through the drive wheels while they're also supposed to be steering is a "bad thing" and you'll be fighting to keep the car in a straight line from that point upwards. Sadly, no-one told Alfa Romeo, who put 263hp through their 147 GTA & 156 GTA's front-wheels...
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u hafta fight a rear wheel drive car car to keep in a straight line too..arguable more difficult perhaps because of the fishtailing

yes FF's accelerate at a Decreasing rate... and FR's accelerate at an increasing right.. but there must be a point of Crossover no? where the FF starts off better and the FR starts off worse.. then they "rotate"

and on a side note there's a alfa FF with 370Bhp... u can see it in the episode of Top gear where they hypnotize richard. :D
 
Ottoman
u hafta fight a rear wheel drive car car to keep in a straight line too..arguable more difficult perhaps because of the fishtailing
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A rear wheel drive car usually suffers from "fishtailing" when it is overpowered, unlike a FF car which exhibits its drawbacks no matter how much power you put on, although less noticable with less power, understeer is still a major problem. Oversteer, however, is not a problem in many rear wheel drive cars.
 
Ottoman
yes FF's accelerate at a Decreasing rate... and FR's accelerate at an increasing right.. but there must be a point of Crossover no? where the FF starts off better and the FR starts off worse.. then they "rotate"
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I can't see any particular reason why an FR car, transferring it's weight to it's drivewheels, would start worse than an FF car, transferring it's weight off it's drivewheels.

Given two specific cars then maybe it IS the case, but we're discussing "all things being equal". If they both put the same power onto the planet, the FF will never be in front - beyond reaction times (which we're also assuming to be equal).
 
Famine
I can't see any particular reason why an FR car, transferring it's weight to it's drivewheels, would start worse than an FF car, transferring it's weight off it's drivewheels.

Given two specific cars then maybe it IS the case, but we're discussing "all things being equal". If they both put the same power onto the planet, the FF will never be in front - beyond reaction times (which we're also assuming to be equal).
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u must of missed my point of flywheel HorsePower vs WHEEL horsepower

an FF puts MORE power from the engine to the Ground... then an FR or 4wd...

soo say for example.. Everything is Equal 2 cars... both 200 FLYWHEEL horsepower

on a dyno then.. the FF would make 180ish WHP and the FR would make 170-175... and the 4wd would make 165-170 hp because of the greater amount of losses... so the FF would be faster.. everything being equall

but if both were 200 WHEEL horsepower.. then yes the FR would be faster...

now u do u see my point?
 
That's just a horsepower rating. Just because it sends 5 to 10 more horsepower to the wheel doesnt offset the fact that it is still FF.
 
No - I saw your point. Which is why I emphasised that we were treating ALL things as being equal, and the cars were putting the same amount of power down onto the same surface.

That's a 200 WHEEL horsepower FF, FR and 4WD car.
 
Biased turkey
I'm not trashing your integra, but to me a FF drifting car is an oxymoron, like draft beer in a bottle, or an agile mucle car.
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1842-1.jpg

You might want to rephrase that ;)
 
Famine
I can't see any particular reason why an FR car, transferring it's weight to it's drivewheels, would start worse than an FF car, transferring it's weight off it's drivewheels.

Given two specific cars then maybe it IS the case, but we're discussing "all things being equal". If they both put the same power onto the planet, the FF will never be in front - beyond reaction times (which we're also assuming to be equal).
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If you want to use the possessive of it, you must write it "its". When you write "it's" for any reason, it means "it is". I hate that. But I love sidetracking.
 
Victor Vance
1842-1.jpg

You might want to rephrase that ;)
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Umm, correct me if I'm wrong (which I'm sure you will) but I don't think the Corvette is considered a muscle car anymore. In fact, there aren't any muscle cars at all anymore. They were a product of the past.
 
The Corvette is the classic image of a Muscle Car made modern; a front-engine rear-wheel drive American car with a large engine, fairly large body, and at a price that's not outside everyone's reach 👍

The Dodge Viper is the classic image of a Muscle Car kept classic, rediculously large motor in a moderate sized body, loud, and built for nothing except going in a straight line. :boggled:

The Pontiac GTO and Ford Mustang are also Muscle Cars, but they're in another category of muscle car, 'Pony Car', midsize 4-seater with enough power and a more well rounded package than a traditional muscle car. (like Viper)
 
Thank You :)

Ain't it the truth? Don't get me wrong I like british roadsters of the 60's (lighter is better ;) ) but Muscle Car knowledge is my forte ;)
 
Great! Musclecars are my best suit as well. Wait a sec, how'd this turn from a Spoon Civic thread to 'Muscle Maddness?'
 
Anderton
But I love sidetracking.
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Indeed. It beats actually having anything valuable to say which may add to the discussion.

I'd rather mistype punctuation at 1am than be a racist.
 
Famine
Indeed. It beats actually having anything valuable to say which may add to the discussion.

I'd rather mistype punctuation at 1am than be a racist.
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I never said anything about race, buddy. You were the one who took my "Integracist" attitude as pertaining to race. Watch it with those accusations.
And if you're seriously going to give me heck for correcting you, maybe you should ALSO watch it when telling someone else to say their car has 5 gears instead of 5 speeds. Practice what you preach, I think the saying goes.
 
truenodrifter
that may be true anderton but doing ff races teaches you throttle control which is an important technique for any drivetrain. plus i think its fun to try to control different drivetrains, and yes i would agree that ff is the hardest to master.
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I leanred throttle control much quicker with rear-wheel drives, since spinning out is a harsher lesson that hitting the wall I think.
 
Anderton
I never said anything about race, buddy. You were the one who took my "Integracist" attitude as pertaining to race. Watch it with those accusations.
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And which accusations would they be then? Buddy.

Personally I find your anti-Honda attitude amazingly bigoted but I've made no accusations.

Anderton
And if you're seriously going to give me heck for correcting you, maybe you should ALSO watch it when telling someone else to say their car has 5 gears instead of 5 speeds. Practice what you preach, I think the saying goes.
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I didn't "tell" anyone anything. I pointed out why "gears" made more sense than "speeds" when referring to gearbox ratios. In a thread where someone was telling the world that "Speed 12" was a stupid name as it didn't have a "12 speed" gearbox.

You really need to be a little less touchy.
 

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