Tuning; how much is too much?

[brianwong]

I think that cars should be lowered a bit and stiffened, and then mods that help performance without being too obvious. I never really got massive rims, 17-18" at most for me. I used to be on the tuner side, but then so many American cars look so nice. (Like Mike Mustos car, stuff on drive (Big Muscle) on l stuff like that)

 

[Eric.]

So, to summarize much of page 3, then, it still continues to come down to the usage?


-performance (Yes, I will buy coil-over springs)

-"stance" (I want to look cool, with more than 3 degrees of camber)

-appearance (I own a unique Honda Civic; the one of a kind car that never was one-of-a-kind)

-"resto-mod" (I own a classic car, but hate how it handles)

I have -3.5 degrees of camber. Not stancey.

 

[Greycap]

My personal opinion is that there's a reason to why a car has been designed as it has and trying to turn it into something completely different probably isn't the smartest thing to do when there are far better starting points available.

That's not to say that I'm completely against tuning though. My own car, Volvo 940 Turbo with its 165 bhp and 265 Nm is reasonably quick as it is but seeing that I can get around 210 bhp and 350 Nm by chipping it, increasing boost pressure by a stiffer wastegate actuator and changing the intercooler to a less restrictive one, of course I'll do it. I'll also get stiffer rear springs and new shock absorbers but in the end it's still the same old Volvo estate, just quite a bit more capable than in the beginning. The only thing revealing the tuning is the boost gauge, everything else remains original looking and that's exactly how I like it.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

I have -3.5 degrees of camber. Not stancey.

You're a bit of an exception. I highly respect your MR2. It's really nice.

My personal opinion is that there's a reason to why a car has been designed as it has and trying to turn it into something completely different probably isn't the smartest thing to do when there are far better starting points available.

That's not to say that I'm completely against tuning though. My own car, Volvo 940 Turbo with its 165 bhp and 265 Nm is reasonably quick as it is but seeing that I can get around 210 bhp and 350 Nm by chipping it, increasing boost pressure by a stiffer wastegate actuator and changing the intercooler to a less restrictive one, of course I'll do it. I'll also get stiffer rear springs and new shock absorbers but in the end it's still the same old Volvo estate, just quite a bit more capable than in the beginning. The only thing revealing the tuning is the boost gauge, everything else remains original looking and that's exactly how I like it.

That's sorta what I'm doing with my Subaru. However, I'm likely going to put OEM parts from the WRX wagon onto my 2.5RS wagon. But no badges, and no bumper changes.

Then, for 2013, Brembo brakes, nice Sparco Assetto Gara rims, (225/45R/16,) an inch or two lower (via coilovers,) and a small turbo with a nice BOV, to make sure the motor runs okay with 5 or 6 psi boost. And, depending on the transmission's performance/survival in 2013, maybe a manual 5 speed transmission swap; it'll be a really good autocross car.

 

[Eric.]

You probably aren't going to fit 16" wheels over Brembos.

And you should really just look into trading for a WRX.

 

[Cano]

I can never understand stuff like this.

You don't understand demo cars, you stand close to them and let them make tour ears bleed while admiring the amazing work that goes into them. Yeah, absolutely pointless from a function standpoint... until you realize their goal is to make money for the brand.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

You probably aren't going to fit 16" wheels over Brembos.

And you should really just look into trading for a WRX.

🤬, sorry. I meant 17" rims. The same size as the STi. But, otherwise, the WRX wagon, as far as I can tell, doesn't exist in Canada. And, it's more money for insurance. OEM parts don't count as "modifications" and upgrades, meaning that I can get away with a lesser price bracket; even though I have one of the three final roof spoiler kits in North America. So, yes, I'm pretty sure that it's better to keep my current project.


And, the other, and original reason, is because I don't want to learn how to, on a car that needs no repairs, costs a lot, and might become a valuable car later.


If I make a mistake, and scratch the paint on a WRX, it's likely a more expensive repair, on a more rare/uncommon car..

 

[Eric.]

So instead you want to motor/trans swap and everything else to basically convert your Impreza to a WRX. Brembos are also not necessary for what you seem to want to do, nor are they on the WRX of those years.

 

[SVX]

🤬, sorry. I meant 17" rims. The same size as the STi. But, otherwise, the WRX wagon, as far as I can tell, doesn't exist in Canada. And, it's more money for insurance. OEM parts don't count as "modifications" and upgrades, meaning that I can get away with a lesser price bracket; even though I have one of the three final roof spoiler kits in North America. So, yes, I'm pretty sure that it's better to keep my current project.


And, the other, and original reason, is because I don't want to learn how to, on a car that needs no repairs, costs a lot, and might become a valuable car later.


If I make a mistake, and scratch the paint on a WRX, it's likely a more expensive repair, on a more rare/uncommon car..

Yes, but a WRX is already decently quick, and would save you a ton of time and money when you'd already have a decently quick starting point.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

No. The WRX is not a wagon, in Canada. No, I don't want a WRX. Which part of the thread title led to talking about the problems with my car? Seriously, your MR2 is a nice car, be happy with it, and leave my Impreza alone.

Yes, but a WRX is already decently quick, and would save you a ton of time and money when you'd already have a decently quick starting point.

So is the 2.5RS. What's wrong with it? Nothing. It's not fast enough? No, it's not fast enough to buy off of a shelf. No, it's plenty fast as a starter. It's my second daily driver, and the first car I'm paying for. I'm not going to go ape-🤬 with it. No, I don't want to make something with 300+ hp for what is, essentially, a first car. But, right now, 173 horsepower isn't much for the class I'll be in, in 2014.

Don't hate me, for slowly learning things. Buying a new, very fast car is unrealistic. Hey, Eric. Go buy a Honda NSX, I bet it's faster than your MR2. SVX, go buy something faster. Go buy a Corvette.

 

[Eric.]

Uhhhhhhhhh....

 

[nobuffalo]

No. The WRX is not a wagon, in Canada. No, I don't want a WRX. Which part of the thread title led to talking about the problems with my car? Seriously, your MR2 is a nice car, be happy with it, and leave my Impreza alone.

You start a thread about how much tuning is too much, then you basically tell people to stop talking when they disagree with how much you plan to tune your car. Uhhhhhhhhh...

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

You start a thread about how much tuning is too much, then you basically tell people to stop talking when they disagree with how much you plan to tune your car. Uhhhhhhhhh...

Tune. How to change. The WRX is a bit too much for me, as a starter car.


I don't understand where people get off, on telling me what I can and can't do, only a few posts after someone said, essentially, "let them eat cake." Let us do what we want, was one of the things I saw, as a very, very common "theme" throughout the thread. Then, after that, was safety.


Tuning my Impreza, with better brakes, better suspension, etc., would be quite safe. And, it's my choice.

 

[SVX]

So is the 2.5RS. What's wrong with it? Nothing. It's not fast enough? No, it's not fast enough to buy off of a shelf. No, it's plenty fast as a starter. It's my second daily driver, and the first car I'm paying for. I'm not going to go ape-🤬 with it. No, I don't want to make something with 300+ hp for what is, essentially, a first car. But, right now, 173 horsepower isn't much for the class I'll be in, in 2014.

What's the point in modifying it at all, then? What's the point on worrying about classes and stuff when it's really only your second car?

As you said, it's plenty fast already, especially since it was never designed to be driven a track quickly. Heck, it's a non turbo automatic Subaru wagon! Those never really scream out to be driven around an autocross track competitively, IMO.

Don't hate me, for slowly learning things. Buying a new, very fast car is unrealistic. Hey, Eric. Go buy a Honda NSX, I bet it's faster than your MR2. SVX, go buy something faster. Go buy a Corvette.

While that's a good point, why not just save up for something with more power when you have a good level of experience? It's only your second car after all.

I'm not knocking you for being different, but when this is only your second car, you just may have to wait a bit. Have fun with it for what it is.

 

[Eric.]

I...don't...get it.


A WRX is an Impreza with more power, better suspension, improved differentials, a manual transmission, likely better brakes and a different transmission (or gears).

Things you want to upgrade on your Impreza: more power, better suspension, a manual transmission, better brakes.

It will cost less to sell your Impreza and buy the WRX that you're wanting to convert your Impreza to and have a whole lot less labor involved. And a more reliable engine.

 

[nobuffalo]

Tune. How to change. The WRX is a bit too much for me, as a starter car.


I don't understand where people get off, on telling me what I can and can't do, only a few posts after someone said, essentially, "let them eat cake." Let us do what we want, was one of the things I saw, as a very, very common "theme" throughout the thread. Then, after that, was safety.


Tuning my Impreza, with better brakes, better suspension, etc., would be quite safe. And, it's my choice.

Nobody said you can't do those thing, one person just said he didn't see much of a point. I personally think a few of the things you want to do are not a bad idea and will definitely be an improvement but you shouldn't get so upset when people disagree with you and voice their opinion and you definitely shouldn't tell then to stop.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

"While that's a good point, why not just save up for something with more power when you have a good level of experience? It's only your second car after all. "

It's because I still want to learn how to build/tune. I don't care about winning, yet. I care about being able to say "look, I built that, with my own two hands. I can make yours as nice as that, too."

It's part of my ambitions to be a mechanic. It's a career choice, rather than just transportation. It'll be a show car, a track car, AND a daily driver. Imagine that. The multi-purpose aspect of the car offers so much more than just that ridiculous performance of the WRX. A car that people think is underpowered, heavy, and slow, transformed into a fast, fun, good-looking street car.


That, is my goal. I've told too many people that I'm not getting a WRX, nor an STi. I'm making the car I want. I'm not the type to buy a fast car, like an Aston Martin. I'm the type to work with something I like, for being affordable, and still fast.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

No. The WRX is not a wagon, in Canada

They're certainly rarer but I found a fair few Teardrop WRX hatches in the classifieds. Even in the tradish World Rally Blue.

 

[Joey D]

It'll be a show car, a track car, AND a daily driver. Imagine that. The multi-purpose aspect of the car offers so much more than just that ridiculous performance of the WRX. A car that people think is underpowered, heavy, and slow, transformed into a fast, fun, good-looking street car.

I hope you have a good job you can walk to because your plan for your car means you're going to be broke and without a mode of transportation pretty frequently.

 

[McLaren]

I'm just going to give you some friendly advice regarding this point & that's all:

It'll be a show car, a track car, AND a daily driver.

Unless you have a 2nd car, it is generally not too wise that your track car is also your daily. In the event something breaks on the track, you know that you become without a means of transportation altogether, not just getting home.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

I hope you have a good job you can walk to because your plan for your car means you're going to be broke and without a mode of transportation pretty frequently.

I have a great job. I'm making more money than my mom at age 19. And, I get three day weekends. Three day weekends, on which I can do small jobs, here-and-there. Brakes/suspension one weekend, tires another, etc., until my car is exactly as I plan. However, there's also the option of renting a car (like my dad and I are doing on Monday, since the Impreza's getting window tint.)


But, McLaren, since you choose to get involved, again, yes, my family has three cars. And my dad and I work together. So, I can carpool in the Accent, OR take my dad to work in my Impy.

 

[Tornado]

A car that people think is underpowered, heavy, and slow, transformed into a fast, fun, good-looking street car.

So... like when Subaru took the normal Impreza and made the WRX?


I think I should point out that you're really not going to be defying expectations, because they will already expect an Impreza at a track day to be fast. And that most people who would be impressed with all the work you put into it would also question why you did it based on your available options, much like the people here are.

 

[Joey D]

I have a great job. I'm making more money than my mom at age 19. And, I get three day weekends. Three day weekends, on which I can do small jobs, here-and-there. Brakes/suspension one weekend, tires another, etc., until my car is exactly as I plan. However, there's also the option of renting a car (like my dad and I are doing on Monday, since the Impreza's getting window tint.)

I think you're really underestimating the cost of modifying a car, even minor mods cost quite a bit. Since you want your car to be a daily driver that is both a racecar and a show car there won't be anything cheap for it since you're going to need quality stuff. Tires will easily be a grand or more, rims a grand or more and suspension probably a few grand, and that's just some starter stuff.

Unless you have no other financial responsibilities then you're going to have a hard time funding your plans. And when you're car breaks, which is will because it's a racecar, you'll be out even more money and a car to boot. Even the cheapest rental cars will still be $100+ for the week, plus the cost of fuel.

 

[SVX]

So... like when Subaru took the normal Impreza and made the WRX?


I think I should point out that you're really not going to be defying expectations, because they will already expect an Impreza at a track day to be fast. And that most people who would be imprezzed with all the work you put into it would also question why you did it based on your available options, much like the people here are.

FIFY.

I'll get my coat.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

I don't have any other economic responsibilities, but a $40 phone bill.


Oh, and I make much more than minimum wage at a full-time job, with only a four day week. Oh, and unless my suspension/brakes/tire upgrades fail, no, I shouldn't have to worry about repairs.


Seriously, I don't have to worry about economics. I've been slowly modifying the car with OEM or better parts for about a month now, and my bill (the phone bill) was always paid. And, if worse comes to worse, I can dip into my savings account a small bit. However, even as-is, now, I can afford the best tires on the market, pay for them, and still not have to go without my phone or my savings account.


With that said, I'll have 2 sets of rims, three sets of tires, two sets of springs, two sets of brakes, etc. For "just in case something breaks." Why else would I keep the parts I take off/change?

 

[McLaren]

Oh, and I make much more than minimum wage at a full-time job, with only a four day week. Oh, and unless my suspension/brakes/tire upgrades fail, no, I shouldn't have to worry about repairs.

There is no unless, though. For someone who says they have auto-x experience, you should know these are 3 components that take the most wear & will require repairs at some point.

I don't quite get your logic, there. You shouldn't have to worry, but claim you have extra brakes, suspension, tires, & rims just in case.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

There's also nothing stopping you from learning how to tinker/modify/tune/service/repair a WRX either. The difference is, the WRX will be a much better starting position for said modifications and tuning, and for the potential cost of your plans you could buy two WRXs: one street weapon and one for your autocross.

With a WRX, just an ECU tune and turbo-back exhaust would yield about 30-50hp. You'd have to do some serious internal work or move to the similarly expensive option of converting to forced induction to get that from the 2.5RS.

Then you also have better suspension and brakes from stock which would cost you several thousand dollars to replace on the 2.5RS, manual transmission which would also cost a pretty penny to install let alone buy, stickier tyres, all these things add up and it will cost you an absolute 🤬 more than a WRX to get it up to the same standard, let alone quicker than one.

You can still modify the hell out of a WRX or WRX STi if you really want to, and you can still do your mechanic business on it too. We're all just saying it's much more cost effective to start with a WRX than the 2.5RS you currently have. And as a 19 year old who said that while he earns more than his mum doesn't have the money for a WRX STi, cost effectiveness is what really counts.

I'm 20 and I don't have much income myself. So it's a relief knowing that for the money I paid for it I'm getting the quickest Subaru I can get straight out of the box, and when I get the cash, give it a bit more poke, a bit more grip, make it into something that I really want.

 

[Joey D]

I don't have any other economic responsibilities, but a $40 phone bill.

Oh, and I make much more than minimum wage at a full-time job, with only a four day week. Oh, and unless my suspension/brakes/tire upgrades fail, no, I shouldn't have to worry about repairs.

Seriously, I don't have to worry about economics. I've been slowly modifying the car with OEM or better parts for about a month now, and my bill (the phone bill) was always paid. And, if worse comes to worse, I can dip into my savings account a small bit. However, even as-is, now, I can afford the best tires on the market, pay for them, and still not have to go without my phone or my savings account.

With that said, I'll have 2 sets of rims, three sets of tires, two sets of springs, two sets of brakes, etc. For "just in case something breaks." Why else would I keep the parts I take off/change?

So you don't pay for insurance, gas, registration for your car? I'm guessing your parents/grandparents/friend/whomever else pays for all that then? Trust me, that'll dry up really quick since you're getting to an age where that sort of thing happens. Life's going to hit you outta no where and it's going to suck for you.

The thing is, all that stuff you mention will fail if your racing your car. I have a racecar, crap breaks on it all the time and even though it's not a fortune to fix, dropping a couple hundred bucks here and there gets expensive pretty quick. Also having spare parts? OK, so you'll be using the OEM stuff. You know what takes even less time to wear out when racing? OEM parts. So once you've blown through your parts cache, then what?

Seriously, if you want to tinker around with a car and race it, look at buying a cheap second car to mess around with. I got my Neon for $400 and there's maybe a total of $2,000 in it. You'll save yourself a headache in the long run.

 

[Eric.]

Thing is, the 2.5RS can be very fast in the ST class (I think its still in regular ol' ST, the ST* classes got jumbled around this year...). But that means mods like coilovers, intake, exhaust (must still have a catalytic converter). Restrictions on wheel and tire widths (7" wheel width and I think 225mm tires). And a manual transmission is a must for any sort of competition use...

 

[ND4SPD]

No. The WRX is not a wagon, in Canada. No, I don't want a WRX. Which part of the thread title led to talking about the problems with my car? Seriously, your MR2 is a nice car, be happy with it, and leave my Impreza alone.

Lol, are you trying to tell me that the plethora of WRX wagons for sale in Ontario don't actually exist?