Update 1.15 has ROOTED the wheel Force Feedback

[Imari]

Agree 100%, sadly you always have to work with the lowest (IQ) common denominator in mind.

No, you don't. If we did that there would be no usable electronic devices. No workshop tools. No cars. There is no rule that an item may never cause injury when used by anyone. There's probably ten things within 5 paces that you could kill yourself with if you did the wrong thing.

You work with a reasonable assumption of what sort of behaviour is expected from a consumer. You do not usually, for example, have exposed high voltage wires, because under normal use those will cause major injury or death for no particular benefit to usability. That doesn't mean you can't make a perfectly functional microwave though, even though people can and have injured and killed themselves with microwaves. You make an item as safe as possible while still able to fulfill it's task.

But in a case like this where the part that causes injury is central to the performance of the item, you do not remove functionality just because some might misuse it. You may introduce safety measures, just look at the safety items that have been added to cars for drivers, passengers and pedestrians. Seat belts, air bags, front end design, etc. But reducing engine power is not one of them, because that would impact the functionality of the car.

The point of a high powered FFB wheel is to accurately convey the forces from the "car" being driven without clipping or compression. Restricting the power of the wheel removes it's ability to function correctly.

Either way, I'm fairly positive this will be fixed sooner rather than later and brought up to the levels we'd all enjoy.

There is no fix. Either they unnerf the power and allow the wheel the potential to cause injury, or they don't.

There is no happy intermediate, at max power direct drive wheels of that strength can and will cause injury if misused. It's not a bug, it's a feature and it's been known about for years. That ability to cause injury is the wheel working entirely as intended.

If Polyphony truly wishes to avoid any possibility of injury to it's players, the only option is to continue to restrict the maximum power available to the wheels. Which is dumb and entirely disrespectful to the players who spent big bucks on the branded wheel.

 

[PirovacBoy]

To everyone who still thinks PDs‘ decision to nerf the FFB is a Fraud and therefore an inappropriate Move…😉

 

[Nick Parks]

To everyone who still thinks PDs‘ decision to nerf the FFB is a Fraud and therefore an inappropriate Move…😉

Hate to think what that would be like on the DD1 with 20nm

 

[Veinz]

To everyone who still thinks PDs‘ decision to nerf the FFB is a Fraud and therefore an inappropriate Move…😉

My G29 also does this at 4/4 settings with that car and track. It stops when I’m on the downhill part for some reason.

 

[ssj4vegita]

What is it about people on the internet that statements can only be made with absolutes. Just always binary - It's the best, or it's the worst. Nothing in the middle. The FFB has made the affected wheels nowhere close to "unplayable". It's different, yes. Not good enough, yes. Annoying, yes. But you can absolutely play the game, and pretty effectively. I'm having to run mine on 10-10 to feel anything, but there is enough information available through the limited feedback to still drive well. It literally takes 3 laps to adjust. I'm still top 500 in the leaderboard for Daily Race C, despite the lessened feedback. So it's not "unplayable". I'm new to these forums, but from my liimited exposure, it appears that GT7 fans complain about this game far more aggressively than is normal/necessary. Chill out, and enjoy the fact that we have access to the best graphics, gameplay, and ease of use ever. Coming from a boomer who first played GT on PSOne, and knows how good he has it now

This is not really an exaggeration from my part. I literally stopped playing after I got so hooked to it that I have sidelined every other game in favour of GT7. And my experience and fun is totally ruined now. The amount of money I spent on my DD Pro setup (wheel, v3i pedals, shifter etc) can be easily seen with a naked eye by anybody and PD went and totally ruined it now with such a ridiculous, Bull$hit excuse of "injury". Yeah, it pisses me of big time!! Mainly because I had such fun playing it until now. And they ruined my expensive setup. Literally I've tried a multitude of settings to no satisfaction. At above maximum strength the wheel feel like paper and don't tell me this is acceptable! I paid premium price tag for the headroom this wheelbase has (8nm) and now it fells like some cheap $hit. I cannot feel the curbes anymore, I cannot feel if the car still has grip on the road surface, it is literally unplayable for me! It does not twist at all when my car goes sideways, which is what should be realistic. But others have already made my point more clear in previous comments than I would be able at all.

I'm so fed up with PD, their latest change to make some legendary cars more expensive because of "realism" (f. ck off!!!) because of some insurance company telling them they have gone up, and at the same time nerfing the most expensive accessories to not feel any realism at all because in favour of some p.ssies. I would have 1 or 2 things to tell for the decision makers!

 

[thebanat]

No, you don't. If we did that there would be no usable electronic devices. No workshop tools. No cars. There is no rule that an item may never cause injury when used by anyone. There's probably ten things within 5 paces that you could kill yourself with if you did the wrong thing.

You work with a reasonable assumption of what sort of behaviour is expected from a consumer. You do not usually, for example, have exposed high voltage wires, because under normal use those will cause major injury or death for no particular benefit to usability. That doesn't mean you can't make a perfectly functional microwave though, even though people can and have injured and killed themselves with microwaves. You make an item as safe as possible while still able to fulfill it's task.

But in a case like this where the part that causes injury is central to the performance of the item, you do not remove functionality just because some might misuse it. You may introduce safety measures, just look at the safety items that have been added to cars for drivers, passengers and pedestrians. Seat belts, air bags, front end design, etc. But reducing engine power is not one of them, because that would impact the functionality of the car.

The point of a high powered FFB wheel is to accurately convey the forces from the "car" being driven without clipping or compression. Restricting the power of the wheel removes it's ability to function correctly.

There is no fix. Either they unnerf the power and allow the wheel the potential to cause injury, or they don't.

There is no happy intermediate, at max power direct drive wheels of that strength can and will cause injury if misused. It's not a bug, it's a feature and it's been known about for years. That ability to cause injury is the wheel working entirely as intended.

If Polyphony truly wishes to avoid any possibility of injury to it's players, the only option is to continue to restrict the maximum power available to the wheels. Which is dumb and entirely disrespectful to the players who spent big bucks on the branded wheel.

Well, thanks for telling me what I actually think and leaving so much room for reasonable discussion. What a productive conversation! Cheers buddy, enjoy your day

 

[ShiftingGears]

Naa... don't worry mate; they'll fix it.

They have to, especially having admitted that it's a temporary "fix" in the first place.

I'll believe it when I see it fixed because PDs say/do ratio is not good. Plus, in IT there's plenty of workarounds that end up as 'features'. Its not unprecedented.

 

[Imari]

Well, thanks for telling me what I actually think and leaving so much room for reasonable discussion. What a productive conversation! Cheers buddy, enjoy your day

You can think whatever you like, I haven't told you what to think. But if you think that all products are designed around the lowest IQ users then you're demonstrably wrong.

 

[thebanat]

You can think whatever you like, I haven't told you what to think. But if you think that all products are designed around the lowest IQ users then you're demonstrably wrong.

I said I agree with you. You said, "no you don't", and proceeded to write an essay about how I dont know what my own words mean. GTPlanet, more like GasLightPlanet lmao.

 

[xMAXIx79]

To everyone who still thinks PDs‘ decision to nerf the FFB is a Fraud and therefore an inappropriate Move…😉

There would have been an easier solution for this...... Simply delete this mangy tomahawk from the game completely!!!

No seriously, can it be sooo difficult to simply reduce the FFB of these vehicles completely or in such situations? AND... seriously, if you have such a steering wheel and turned it up to 10... something can't be right with that, can't it? I only have a cheap T248 and even that doesn't perform that badly (although I use it with default settings). If I now imagine what an 8NM DD Pro does at level 10 or even a podium.... no, seriously, running these parts at 10 can't be OK. And whoever does it, well, I don't feel sorry for them if they injure their thumbs/fingers or wrists.

 

[thebanat]

There would have been an easier solution for this...... Simply delete this mangy tomahawk from the game completely!!!

No seriously, can it be sooo difficult to simply reduce the FFB of these vehicles completely or in such situations? AND... seriously, if you have such a steering wheel and turned it up to 10... something can't be right with that, can't it? I only have a cheap T248 and even that doesn't perform that badly (although I use it with default settings). If I now imagine what an 8NM DD Pro does at level 10 or even a podium.... no, seriously, running these parts at 10 can't be OK. And whoever does it, well, I don't feel sorry for them if they injure their thumbs/fingers or wrists.

Careful with these opinions, mate. Otherwise someone might come and give you an inane comparison lecture about power tools and convince you that it was your idea 🤣

 

[xMAXIx79]

Careful with these opinions, mate. Otherwise someone might come and give you an inane comparison lecture about power tools and convince you that it was your idea 🤣

I have no qualms about that...because I'm very simple.... Anyone who knowingly puts himself in danger can die or be injured...I don't see any reason to ban this danger. As long as the other person is not endangered, that is his business. And that's how I see it in all things... everyone should do what they think is right, as long as others do NOT have to "suffer from it".

Whether it's listening to loud music, playing with your tongue in the socket, or banging a nail in your head... Any reasonably intelligent person knows what can be dangerous. And with "new" technology, which can be dangerous under certain circumstances, a warning is sufficient in my opinion, even if it is only in the manual, which very few people read anyway.

 

[thebanat]

I have no qualms about that...because I'm very simple.... Anyone who knowingly puts himself in danger can die or be injured...I don't see any reason to ban this danger. As long as the other person is not endangered, that is his business. And that's how I see it in all things... everyone should do what they think is right, as long as others do NOT have to "suffer from it".

Whether it's listening to loud music, playing with your tongue in the socket, or banging a nail in your head... Any reasonably intelligent person knows what can be dangerous. And with "new" technology, which can be dangerous under certain circumstances, a warning is sufficient in my opinion, even if it is only in the manual, which very few people read anyway.

Ahh so this is where American gun laws come from 😁

 

[xMAXIx79]

Ahh so this is where American gun laws come from 😁

What the hell do I have to do with America?

Seriously.... maybe you're thinking and looking again where I come from.

I am for rules that serve the general public, but not for exaggerated paternalism. And in my opinion, this FFB update is exactly that, a completely exaggerated paternalism.
A simple warning in the patch notes or every time you use said cars would have been completely sufficient in my opinion!

 

[FerrariF40]

Also the calibration of my T-GT II when turning on is much more danger in my opinion.

Playstation boots up, which is also done by my kid, and then all of a sudden the wheel goes full-throttle and with maximium force to the left and then to the right. Thrustmaster should patch this out, as its not just annoying but also dangerous!

@Famine Can you as GTPlanet please officially ask PD when the due date for the FFB fix is ??

 

[Imari]

I said I agree with you. You said, "no you don't", and proceeded to write an essay about how I dont know what my own words mean. GTPlanet, more like GasLightPlanet lmao.

You said

Agree 100%, sadly you always have to work with the lowest (IQ) common denominator in mind.

I know because that's what I quoted. That's a whole sentence with two distinct parts.

When I wrote "no you don't" that was referencing the second part of the sentence. My meaning was No, you don't always have to work with the lowest IQ common denominator in mind. "You" wasn't talking to you @thebanat specifically, it was continuing your example of speaking in the second person.

Yes, this relies on context to determine what part of the sentence "no, you don't" applies to. As context clues there was the rest of the post where I explained in detail why "you" (as a generic second person) don't have to do that, "that" in this case being design with the lowest IQ common denominator in mind. You know, following normal structure for a discussion of making a statement and then providing some reasoning or proof for that statement.

But instead you managed to ignore all that and assume that I was telling you that you didn't agree with me.

Wild. But not true.

English can be a tricky language, but you read the room wrong on that one.

To everyone who still thinks PDs‘ decision to nerf the FFB is a Fraud and therefore an inappropriate Move…😉

That looks far from ideal (although it's entirely normal behaviour for an FFB wheel at high strength), but let's think about this from the perspective of a developer for a bit. We've got a clear example of undesirable behaviour on a single car in the game in very specific conditions.

It could be an accurate portrayal of the forces on the steering rack of a high downforce imaginary vehicle at high speed, but let's assume that it's a bug. And let's assume that it's not one that's an obvious and easy fix or we'd just fix it. What solutions could we put in place temporarily to avoid causing undue wear/damage to people's hardware and any surrounding items until we get a fix in place?

1. Reduce FFB strength for all cars in the game.
.....

Well, I'm all out of ideas. Oh wait:

2. Reduce FFB strength for this specific car.
3. Cap FFB strength over a certain speed for this specific car.
4. Introduce additional damping for this specific car.
5. Introduce additional damping over a certain speed for this specific car.
6. Disable FFB for this specific car.
7. Disable this specific car from being driven entirely until it's fixed.

There's a ton of things that they could do to temporarily address undesirable behaviour from one or a small number of cars that does not require modification of the entire FFB system. Taking action is not an unreasonable option, but some actions are more reasonable than others. This doesn't seem like enough of a threat to warrant the action that they took, when any number of other less intrusive options would seem to be on the table.

 

[MGR]

To everyone who still thinks PDs‘ decision to nerf the FFB is a Fraud and therefore an inappropriate Move…😉

 

[xMAXIx79]

View attachment 1156866

You Made my Day

 

[JustMac]

I avoided playing since reading about the screwup but wowee... They've really done a number on the Fanatec Podium feedback. It's probably worse than a T150, as it fundamentally doesn't channel forces anymore. It's less of a strength thing per se, it's more like no fidelity. There's scant trace of force feedback at all.

 

[ssj4vegita]

I avoided playing since reading about the screwup but wowee... They've really done a number on the Fanatec Podium feedback. It's probably worse than a T150, as it fundamentally doesn't channel forces anymore. It's less of a strength thing per se, it's more like no fidelity. There's scant trace of force feedback at all.

This is totally the case! People paid big bucks for these expensive equipment to have those strong forces which they nerfed. What were they thinking?! Not to mention this laughable explanation of "injury". Did they look at any Fanatec base at all? They would know if somebody has issues with the strength they can reduce it via the wheelbase settings, inside the firmware of the product independent of any game. You can nerf your fanatec to the ends, until the wheel loses ALL of its feedback and you cannot feel anything anymore. And also they have a slider ingame as well where you can completely turn off FFB. You have all these options and if you still make yourself injured that's totally your fault (generally speaking, not specifically you I need to add). Also it is not reasonable to make the ffb broken because of some unreasonable people, who are completely ignorant. As well as the people who spend this amount of money for a sim setup are not usually the "I don't know about anything, I'm an idiot" type of consumer, at least I'd like to think so.

I'm starting to think PD has a bunch of idiots in the decision making roles.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

What’s more broken? FFB or google translate.

 

[ruggermole]

To everyone who still thinks PDs‘ decision to nerf the FFB is a Fraud and therefore an inappropriate Move…😉

I don’t think the move was fraud but what the hell do you think would happen if on a dd wheel at 10/10 with a car going over 400km an hour?

Like I can produce that and much worse on other games if put the settings a certain way.

 

[85dean]

Also the calibration of my T-GT II when turning on is much more danger in my opinion.

Playstation boots up, which is also done by my kid, and then all of a sudden the wheel goes full-throttle and with maximium force to the left and then to the right. Thrustmaster should patch this out, as its not just annoying but also dangerous!

@Famine Can you as GTPlanet please officially ask PD when the due date for the FFB fix is ??

My T-GT2 Has always turned in both directions once turning on the playstation and its initial setup each time you turn it on.
It does the same on F1 2021 as well, that's not a problem specific with gt7,
My T-GT2 works great on F1 2021 and ACC,
It's just on GT7 that it all feels light as a feather,
I've adjusted my ffb settings and its improved it, but nowhere near the same as when GT7 first launched,
Had both the wheel and the game at the same time.

 

[mattikake]

And they've put it back to 1.13 as of 1.16.

All that messing around trying to get new ffb settings that work now has to be undone. Ffs!

 

[Pigems]

My T-GT2 Has always turned in both directions once turning on the playstation and its initial setup each time you turn it on.
It does the same on F1 2021 as well, that's not a problem specific with gt7,
My T-GT2 works great on F1 2021 and ACC,
It's just on GT7 that it all feels light as a feather,
I've adjusted my ffb settings and its improved it, but nowhere near the same as when GT7 first launched,
Had both the wheel and the game at the same time.

Even my old DFGT used to do this, I think all wheels do it when they first turn on.

 

[xMAXIx79]

Even my old DFGT used to do this, I think all wheels do it when they first turn on.

This is called "Automatic Centering"
Simplified... the device recognizes the respective maximum positions and calculates the perfect center point, so it always "knows" what position the steering wheel is in. This setting will probably be deleted or not saved if it no longer has a power supply from USB. Or it is necessary because of the belt drive, which can also "lengthen".
Many automated systems perform such passes on initial launch to determine their home position.

 

[ShiftingGears]

I haven't tried the game since the update. How is the FFB now? Does it feel like 1.13 again?

 

[NikNakTobasco]

I haven't tried the game since the update. How is the FFB now? Does it feel like 1.13 again?

Yep. Same as 1.13 was. Thank goodness.

 

[Theiceman1]

Mmm... Now to figure out what my settings was with 1.13...🤔🤔🙄🙄

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

Yep. Same as 1.13 was. Thank goodness.

Yes, now it's **** again, clipping in every corner. But it's strong. Now we got strong clipping again.

****