Veyron - Super Fast?

[Deathclown66]

The latest issue of Motor Trend features a road test of the new Buggati Veyron, in it's 4500lb, 1001hp glory.
The basics:
0-60: 2.7
0-100: 5.7
1/4mi: 10.4 @ 139.9mph
Skidpad: .96g

Everything else was already known, so I'll get down to it.
March '06 Car & Driver:
Saleen S7 TT - 750HP, 2950lbs.
0-60: 3.4
0-100: 6.2
1/4mi: 10.9 @140.0mph
Skidpad: 1.04g

Now, the Veyron is claimed to go 253mph, while the Saleen only claimed 248mph, BUT, the Saleen is quicker from 60-100, and from 100-140, without Motor Trend's calculations for perfect operating conditions.
So, for all intents and purposes, after 1st gear, the Saleen is quicker, with 250hp less, and, more amazingly, is claimed able to reach within 5mph of the all-powerful veyrons top speed, with 250hp less.

Downforce? well, the Saleen doesn't have a "top speed key" to fumble with, just to reach top speed, but it does, in fact, (according to Saleen) have more downforce than the Saleen S7R race cars, thanks to rules and regulations.

So, is the Saleen just a simply astounding vehicle, or is the Veyron a dissapointment?

 

[Ev0 4 drifter]

the veyron is limited though, so if there were no tyre limits it could probably go past 270mph maybe 300mph.

 

[the Interceptor]

These are two totally different vehicles when it comes to driving. That said, the question which one to buy is much more down to your personal taste, rather than some hp, mph and seconds more or less.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[Poverty]

lol what they didnt meantion is that the bewteen 60-100 and 100-140 the saleen will be at optimuim revs for its turbos to allow quick pick up, howver if they let the cars run to 60-110 or 100-150 the veyron would be in the lead. And we already know that the veyron can easily see off the 1000hp saleen in a drag race.

 

[Dave A]

I prefer the Veyron in every way over the Saleen, if I was going to track a car I wouldn't have either. As for the Saleen S7 TT having more downforce than the race car, that's very doubtful, well either that is or the top speed claims are. I don't believe 750bhp is enough power to propel a car with thoes levels of downfrce to 248mph. As for the acceleration figures could someone post them., I would be suprised if the S7 TT hit 200mph in 19 seconds or less beating the Veyron.

 

[dubbed]

Like said before the two are completely different vehicles at heart.

The Saleen S7TT is really a road legal track car, and NOT suitable for driving on public roads. To give you an idea; when you buy one (S7TT) you have to fly out to Saleen's HQ and have them custom fit the seat location, because when it is set, the seat canot be adjusted...at all.

The Veyron however is the most luxurious, most powerful GT(grand touring) car ever made. The interior is the most opulent of any car on the road and its designed to be a very easy to drive car.

 

[toyomatt84]

One of the worst comparisons that I've seen in recent times. 👎👎

 

[Famine]

What's the 0-250mph time of the Saleen?

 

[the Interceptor]

You guys must say though that it's not bad for a first thread. I've seen much worse anyway.

 

[Dave A]

It's not the best comparison in terms of car for car overall, because of how different the two cars are however in terms of all out speed they're not that bad a comparison. I don't think anyone would call the thread maker stupid for coming up with this since the figures for both cars are something that no doubt a lot of people will want to read weather it's in a comparison or not. But alos the comparison it'self is motortrends and not Deathclow666's.

 

[Poverty]

Some british car magazine did a test with the veyron against all other traditional track machines and the veyron beat them all with ease. I'll look fot it and post it.

 

[F1GTR]

McLaren F1...




It would be the Veyron if I couldn't.

 

[toyomatt84]

McLaren F1...




It would be the Veyron if I couldn't.

What are you trying to say? That a McLaren F1 is a close match to the Veyron? Because you'd be fairly mistaken.

If you lined a Veyron up with a McLaren F1, let the McLaren start accelerating up to 120mph (and continue), the Veyron would BEAT it to 200mph.

 

[Tornado]

I'm sure it handles better though, and it sure as hell is more practical in a technical sense than the Veyron or S7TT ever will be.
The thing about the Veyron in relation to the S7TT is that no one knows for sure what the limits of even the normal S7 are, because there has never been a real formal test to include everything. The Veyron has been paraded about in every magazine because Volkswagen has made it able to be. And either way, the Saleen S7 TT costs about a third of what the Veyron costs anyways, so it really doesn't matter whether the Veyron is faster because it costs nearly a million dollars more. So, I'd buy a Sleen S7TT and then a whole crapload of other cars, like an EB110 and a McLaren F1 and live with having multiple cool cars that are close to the best instead of one that is the best (arguably).

 

[the Interceptor]

I'm sure it handles better though, and it sure as hell is more practical in a technical sense than the Veyron or S7TT ever will be.

Care to explain this in detail?

So, I'd buy a Sleen S7TT and then a whole crapload of other cars, like an EB110 and a McLaren F1 and live with having multiple cool cars that are close to the best instead of one that is the best (arguably).

Do you have any idea what you would have to pay for a McLaren F1?

 

[dubbed]

I'm sure it handles better though, and it sure as hell is more practical in a technical sense than the Veyron or S7TT ever will be.
The thing about the Veyron in relation to the S7TT is that no one knows for sure what the limits of even the normal S7 are, because there has never been a real formal test to include everything. The Veyron has been paraded about in every magazine because Volkswagen has made it able to be. And either way, the Saleen S7 TT costs about a third of what the Veyron costs anyways, so it really doesn't matter whether the Veyron is faster because it costs nearly a million dollars more. So, I'd buy a Sleen S7TT and then a whole crapload of other cars, like an EB110 and a McLaren F1 and live with having multiple cool cars that are close to the best instead of one that is the best (arguably).

How "fast" a car is, is not the only determinate in the price. The Veryron would be in every practical sense the car to live with every day. The Veyron has no expense spared in the opulence of the interior and the sophitication of its mechanics.

The Saleen S7TT is just about as spartan as you can get(bar the radio and A/C) from a car, race car worthy suspension, no sound insulation etc,etc etc....


Over McLaren the Veyron would be easier to drive....

 

[Tornado]

Care to explain this in detail?

Gladly: The F1 has three seats, a lot of storage room (in relation) and it also weighs about 800 kilograms less. I'm sure the Veyron out grips it, but I'm also sure the F1 is more nimble.

Do you have any idea what you would have to pay for a McLaren F1?

More than $500,000?

The Veryron would be in every practical sense the car to live with every day. The Veyron has no expense spared in the opulence of the interior and the sophitication of its mechanics.

That's great, and very true, but I really don't feel that it's worth nearly a million dollars more for a better interior.

 

[skip0110]

S7 because it's American.

I could lie and try to argue that its a better car and that's why I picked it, but truth is I'd rather have the Saleen because it is American designed and built.

Also I think (and I realize that this is very subjective) that the Saleen is worlds better looking, and if I spend that much on something, I had better damn well like how it looks. It is unlikely that I'll be able to appreciate any other feature as often as I appreciate the looks.

 

[the Interceptor]

Gladly: The F1 has three seats, a lot of storage room (in relation) and it also weighs about 800 kilograms less. I'm sure the Veyron out grips it, but I'm also sure the F1 is more nimble.

The F1 is excellent when it comes to practicality given its performance, but as an every day car, I'd still prefer the Veyron. Still, I agree with you on that handling thing.

More than $500,000?

I remember seeing a used one with about 18,000 miles on the clock on the official german McLaren Automotive website some years ago. It was 1,2 million Euros, which equals about 1,5 million US$. There are only so many F1s worldwide, so it's ridiculously expensive to buy one.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[toyomatt84]

Gladly: The F1 has three seats, a lot of storage room (in relation) and it also weighs about 800 kilograms less. I'm sure the Veyron out grips it, but I'm also sure the F1 is more nimble.
[/SIZE][/FONT]More than $500,000?
That's great, and very true, but I really don't feel that it's worth nearly a million dollars more for a better interior.

The McLaren is a mid-engine, rear wheel drive car, where as the Veyron is a mid-engine all wheel drive car. I'm not saying that the McLaren F1 doesn't handle superbly, but I am noting the simple fact that it doesn't put the power down as evenly as the Veyron. The 748kg that seperates them, albeit is substantial in terms of weight, isn't enough to define a huge cornering/agility difference. You'd be surprised how maneuverable the 4100lb Veyron is.

Also, the McLaren F1 sold for just over $1,000,000 (USD) from it's factory. It does have a 24k Gold firewall and vent lining.

 

[dubbed]

That's great, and very true, but I really don't feel that it's worth nearly a million dollars more for a better interior.

Its not JUST the interior...Consider the transmission for one, It handles 1001hp and 922lbs of trq. Not astounding by itself because some race cars can do that.......Consider this it is a twin clutch auto-manual transmission, that is designed to last for over 125K miles and still provide smooth shifts that are .15 seconds. Where as F1 transmissions only last one weekend of racing.

When you think of the interioir of the Veyron think of this.....The Veyron is not "like" a luxury car, luxury cars try be "like" a Veyron's.

 

[Tornado]

I seem to be getting a lot more hostility than is necessary, so I will post some simple facts:

1. I am not slighting a Veyron in any way. If you look back at older threads about the Veyron, you will see that I was championing every time.
2. The Veyron is essentially a 233MPH car. You need to fly yourself and the car to Germany to have them temporarily disable the limiter to make it a 252MPH car. This makes both the S7TT, all versions of the 'Egg and almost the McLaren itself faster cars than the Veyron in nearly every case.
3. There is no real reason that the S7TT shouldn't be able to go 248MPH. The Mclaren F1 was not limited by top speed in either aerodynamics or BHP, but by it's rev limiter. When they turned if off it pulled 240. And it did it with 5 gears. The S7 has much more torque and BHP and uses all of it's gears. IRL cars have around the same BHP, a whole hell of a lot more drag and far less torque, but they can go in the high 230's.
   
4. There are multiple cars that can handily outrun both the Veyron and the S7TT, but they don't cost more than a million-five or even 580k (well, one of them might).
5. I can guarantee that you could, at the very least, buy both an S7 and a EB110, plus possibly an XJ220, for less than the Veyron costs by itself. The sum of these three cars easily excel the sum of the Veyron's whole.
6. I am not insinuating that the S7TT is a better car than the EB16/4. Far from it. But it is certainly more worth the money than the Veyron is (and I guess that this applies to the F1 as well).
7. And as for the Veyron being what luxury cars want to be, I'd love to see it beat this.
   [*]All of the Veyrons figures (particularly the acceleration ones) are claimed, and so far unmatched, by VW.

 

[kikie]

I would go for the Bugatti.

 

[ferrari_chris]

Veyron, because it's not American.

And when you tell people you drive a Saleen S7 TT you look like a wanker. Like Clarkson says - if you have to explain what your car is, it's no longer cool...

 

[the Interceptor]

I seem to be getting a lot more hostility than is necessary, so I will post some simple facts:

I am not slighting a Veyron in any way. If you look back at older threads about the Veyron, you will see that I was championing every time.

I understand it as a disagreement with your points, rather than hostility.

The Veyron is essentially a 233MPH car. You need to fly yourself and the car to Germany to have them temporarily disable the limiter to make it a 252MPH car. This makes both the S7TT, all versions of the 'Egg and almost the McLaren itself faster cars than the Veyron in nearly every case.

As far as I know, the Veyron is limited to 252mph in the max speed setting, which you can enable with a key. You don't need to go to Germany for that.

There is no real reason that the S7TT shouldn't be able to go 248MPH. The Mclaren F1 was not limited by top speed in either aerodynamics or BHP, but by it's rev limiter. When they turned if off it pulled 240. And it did it with 5 gears. The S7 has much more torque and BHP and uses all of it's gears. IRL cars have around the same BHP, a whole hell of a lot more drag and far less torque, but they can go in the high 230's.

Again, as far as I know, the F1 has six gears. And in the official top speed run you can get a video of, it maxes out at 391km/h, which equals 244mph. Clearly, that run is not limited by the rev limiter, rather than friction.

There are multiple cars that can handily outrun both the Veyron and the S7TT, but they don't cost more than a million-five or even 580k (well, one of them might).

True, but noone ever said the Veyron is the best handling car in the world. Even a Westfield should be able to outhandle it on a narrow course.

I can guarantee that you could, at the very least, buy both an S7 and a EB110, plus possibly an XJ220, for less than the Veyron costs by itself. The sum of these three cars easily excel the sum of the Veyron's whole.

Again I agree, but are we talking about cars per money here? Or asked differently: would someone that has the money and wants to buy a Veyron consider to buy some other cars instead, cause you can have more than one equally good cars for the same money?

I am not insinuating that the S7TT is a better car than the EB16/4. Far from it. But it is certainly more worth the money than the Veyron is (and I guess that this applies to the F1 as well).

Look at my above answer. And I might add this: if I had the money, I would buy the Veyron, even if I knew I could get several other brilliant cars for the same money.

And as for the Veyron being what luxury cars want to be, I'd love to see it beat this.

That's out of proportion. The Bentley is more luxury, but performance-wise in a totally different league and a totally different approach in the first place.

All of the Veyrons figures (particularly the acceleration ones) are claimed, and so far unmatched, by VW.

Several magazines have tested the Veyron and got at least very similar figures to the claimed ones. Is the performance in question here anyway?


Regards
the Interceptor

 

[Deathclown66]

But alos the comparison it'self is motortrends and not Deathclow666's.

Actually, it is 100% my comparison. MT & C&D did their own road tests several months apart, as I mentioned in my first post

It's not about car-to-car, per se, it's about performance-to-performance

And as for the Veyron being "electronically limited" to 253, it most certainly is not, according to 3 mags that I've read. It is "electronically limited" to 233 without the "speed key"

 

[dubbed]

Actually, it is 100% my comparison. MT & C&D did their own road tests several months apart, as I mentioned in my first post

It's not about car-to-car, per se, it's about performance-to-performance

And as for the Veyron being "electronically limited" to 253, it most certainly is not, according to 3 mags that I've read. It is "electronically limited" to 233 without the "speed key"

From Car And Driver:

I barely touched the car's top-speed governor that was set at 253 mph (407.5 kilometers per hour) on that first lap, but on the second I held the car there for at least three of the back straight's five miles

http://www.caranddriver.com/previews/10108/bugatti-veyron-164-page3.html

The 233 is aerodynamically limited by the spoiler, 253 is by the governor to protect the tires...

 

[daan]

And in the official top speed run you can get a video of, it maxes out at 391km/h, which equals 244mph. Clearly, that run is not limited by the rev limiter, rather than friction.

It didn't do 391km/h. I'm sure they would have claimed that if they could. Andy Wallace reads out 391km/h, but it was corrected to 386.7km/h.

 

[the Interceptor]

It didn't do 391km/h. I'm sure they would have claimed that if they could. Andy Wallace reads out 391km/h, but it was corrected to 386.7km/h.

... in 6th gear, and not stopped by a limiter.

 

[Tornado]

As far as I know, the Veyron is limited to 252mph in the max speed setting, which you can enable with a key. You don't need to go to Germany for that.

Everything I've read says that WV has to insert a second key to get the car to run 252.

Again, as far as I know, the F1 has six gears. And in the official top speed run you can get a video of, it maxes out at 391km/h, which equals 244mph. Clearly, that run is not limited by the rev limiter, rather than friction.

The F1 only used 5 gears, as the 6th was a fuel gear. The Maccy's official record was 240.1 MPH, after they took off the speed limiter. The run with the limiter on was 232 MPH.

That's out of proportion. The Bentley is more luxury, but performance-wise in a totally different league and a totally different approach in the first place.

It is not out of proportion when what dubbed said is taken into account.

Several magazines have tested the Veyron and got at least very similar figures to the claimed ones. Is the performance in question here anyway?

Of course it is, as the main argument for the Veyron is that is the fastest production car in the world in every measurement. The problem is, though, that that is only the case if going by VW's claimed figures, and even then it's probably not true.

True, but noone ever said the Veyron is the best handling car in the world. Even a Westfield should be able to outhandle it on a narrow course.

I was talking acceleration and top-speed wise. This is coming from Famine in the French car thread:

But still - you know that your "facts" are wrong now, and yet you stick with them stubbornly. This probably explains your current demeanour - we all know you don't like being questioned on your car facts. The Veyron is not the fastest, quickest nor most powerful production car ever made and, even if you exclude the Weineck Cobra as not a production car, it still wasn't even one of these at the car's launch - being beaten by a ROVER!

This is why the Veyron will not be remembered as well as the McLaren F1 - it was beaten almost as soon as it was announced, and well before the first customer even got their hands on it.

The Ariel Atom 300 bests the fastest-recorded Veyron launch with less than a third of the power and half the traction. And a quarter of the weight. I've seen a video of an electric Atom (read: 200kg weight penalty) pulling an 11.1s quarter mile - compared to the Veyron's 10.8 "estimate".

In actual fact, outside the single 253mph run at Nardo, neither has the Veyron's top speed - just like the old Jaguar E-Type's "150mph". For some reason, VAG are very reluctant to allow any kind of testing of the Veyron at all...

For your reference, the 805hp Koenigsegg CCX will peak, aero-limited, at 255mph (unless you run it on bioethanol, in which case it'll go yet further) - and you don't have to stop and reset the car to do it. The Ultima GTR and Ariel Atom 2 300 will do 0-62mph in 2.7s - with the Ultima going on to beat the Bugatti to 100mph and then back to rest as well. The Weineck Cobra - which has delivered MORE units so far, on a limited production run - produces 1,100hp.

The Barabus TKR beats all of them in all departments (except the Weineck) with a 0-62mph time of 1.67s, a top speed of 270mph and 1005hp. Production has started in Italy and 300 cars are promised.

But I also know what it isn't - and it isn't the fastest, quickest, most powerful or most expensive car ever made. Until Barabus actually deliver a TKR to a customer though, it is the only one which combines being almost the fastest, almost the quickest and almost the most powerful into one car - and is still a car you can live with every day (which the Barabus almost certainly won't be).

As far as I'm aware, no. The speed setting requires the car to change its aerodynamics and suspension settings, by means of a second key - which I believe must be inserted at rest. As soon as you back off the throttle at all, the car resets to the standard configuration.