Veyron - Super Fast?

[Dave A]

No one with half a brain will steal a Veyron, what are you going to do with it afterwards. Sell it .

 

[Poverty]

No one with half a brain will steal a Veyron, what are you going to do with it afterwards. Sell it .

lol exactly, only place where I think you would be able to flog it is in africa to some king or something. But you would have to get it out of the country succesfully first, but a veyron isnt exactly discreet is it now lol.

 

[Deathclown66]

lol at this. No car will do 233mph on a race track, so if they were gonna do high speed runs the veyron owner wouldnt have a problem, and even if the egg and the saleen got up to 240mph on a race track, and the veyron only 233mph it would still be the faster car depending on the course do to its greater acceleration.

Also in real world driving the saleen wouldnt come anywhere near the veyron on public roads due to it having 4wd.

Greater acceleration? from where? The Saleen beat it from 60-140, the prime acceleration spot used on road courses, so, where do we know for a fact that the veyron accelerates quicker? I'll tell you. from 248-252, and 0-60.
Two meaningless spots in a road race.

We’ve never tested a street car that accelerated to 150 mph quicker than this twin-turbo GT. Even the Saleen S7 Twin Turbo, which nicks the turbo GT in the quarter-mile (the S7 does 10.9 seconds at 140 mph, the GT 11.1 at 139), is slower by a full second to 150 mph.

As for this, well, the Saleen has a gear change between 140-150, so obviously the GT will gain there, but what happens when the GT changes gears next? And I'm 100% positive the GT got better grip off the line, meaning the Saleen is probabley pulling harder than the GT at 150mph, not to mention the GT's ugly 0.39 cd rating, which will certainly start factoring in soon at that speed.

 

[Eric.]

Good choice Daan. The Veyron really is overdone. Clios are much, much better cars.

 

[Dave A]

And since when was the Veyron designed for road racing? Do you honeslty think that someone will race these two cars, or that anyone in the market for such a GT will care? I still haven't seen these figures posted and I can't find them anywhere I've looked, it would be appreciated if someone could just post the figures that half of you are referring to regularly so that the other half knows what's what, I'll also be able to tell if the Veyron was going as fast as it could because I have seen quite a few figures for the Veyron, but not for the S7 TT.

 

[Poverty]

Greater acceleration? from where? The Saleen beat it from 60-140, the prime acceleration spot used on road courses, so, where do we know for a fact that the veyron accelerates quicker? I'll tell you. from 248-252, and 0-60.
Two meaningless spots in a road race.
As for this, well, the Saleen has a gear change between 140-150, so obviously the GT will gain there, but what happens when the GT changes gears next? And I'm 100% positive the GT got better grip off the line, meaning the Saleen is probabley pulling harder than the GT at 150mph, not to mention the GT's ugly 0.39 cd rating, which will certainly start factoring in soon at that speed.

Racing from 0-200mph the veyron will destroy the saleen and that is a fact. How do I know that? Because VAG got a 1000hp saleen and their veyron side by side, and then gave some media guys the keys aswell as get VAG racing drivers to demonstrate. The Veyron pulled away with ease it was reported.

Also you talk about a track racing situation when the veyron wasnt designed for that and the saleen is, however I would be willing to bet the saleen is far from the fastest/best in what it was designed for, whilst the veyron is the best in what it was designed for.

Also has anyone actually confirmed the saleens top speed, or is it all still estimations?

 

[LeadSlead#2]

Well lets put it this way, really the veyron has no competitor. The saleen however has many, the FXX and gumpert apollo to name a few. The apollo and saleen are priced similiar, both are strip out road legal track racers. Dont know how much downforce the saleen has but the apollo has as much as a DTM racer.

Estimated top speed is 223 mph with 0-60 mph reached in 2.9 seconds in 650hp guise.

If you read up, you'll see that Saleen states the S7 has more downforce than it's racing counterpart, the Saleen S7R.

I'll take a Saleen, cause it's sexy.
The Veyron, however, is multi-colored and looks like it should have a "under construction" banner on it.

Plus I'd love to see what happens to the AWD advantage the Veyron has, if both the cars are fitted with some nice racing slicks, before their day at the track. See if the Saleen can't cut that 0-60 loss from .7 down to half that, or less.

Also you talk about a track racing situation when the veyron wasnt designed for that and the saleen is.

Wait a second, this coming from the guy who barks at the Z06 interior quality?

 

[daan]

I'm just contemplating whether to add Clio into the poll options...

 

[Deathclown66]

I'm just contemplating whether to add Clio into the poll options...

I would if I could...

Saleen S7
0-30:1.5
0-40:2.2
0-50:2.9
0-60:3.2
0-70:3.9
0-80:4.7
0-90:5.4
0-100:6.2
0-110:7.0
0-120:8.4
0-130:9.5
0-140:10.9
0-150:13.6
0-160:15.6
0-200:23.4*
5-60:3.5
1/4mi:10.9@140.00mph
Top Speed (claimed) 248
1/2 mi: 16.5@171.8mph*
3/4mi: 21.4@193mph*
1 Mile: 25.9@205.7mph*

times marked with *, are from september 2005 R&T FLAT-OUT! 1 mile test.

Bugatti Veyron
0-30:1.2
0-40:1.7
0-50:2.2
0-60:2.7
0-70:3.4
0-80:4.0
0-90:4.8
0-100:5.7
1/4mi:10.9@139.9mph
Top Speed: 252

That's all I've got
Again, I say though, the Veyron times have the benefit of MT's weather/condition corrections, whereas the Saleen does not

 

[Scaff]

Found this

The 1001-horsepower, 253-mph, $1.25 million Bugatti Veyron has set a whole new series of performance benchmarks, however, and Steve Saleen is determined to prove his supercar is the equal of anything the best and the brightest brains of VW Group can create. In the second paragraph of the press kit, for example, you'll read the $580,000 S7 Twin Turbo is capable of speeds "exceeding 250 mph." Elsewhere, you'll see a claimed 0-to-60-mph time of 2.8 seconds, claimed 0-to-100-mph time of 6.0 seconds, and claimed quarter-mile time of 10.7 seconds at 136 mph in a performance comparison chart that includes the Enzo, Porsche Carrera GT, and Mercedes-McLaren SLR, among others. The chart coyly lists a string of N/As for the Bugatti Veyron. But you'll find the claimed Saleen numbers all shade the claimed Veyron numbers by a tenth or two.


So is the S7 Twin Turbo truly a Veyron-beater? It's hard to say, for several reasons. First, the car we drove on the road--the stunning orange one on these pages--isn't the track-tested car, a 2001-plated mule updated to Twin Turbo specifications. Second, the test mule was set up for Saleen's test driver (there's no seat adjustment in the S7; the pedals have to be unbolted and moved back and forth), and our Neil Chirico couldn't comfortably fit in the car. And third, no one has independently tested a Veyron to see how fast it really is.


Chirico squeezed himself into the mule for our figure-eight test, where he found the car to have a surprising amount of initial understeer. But the standing-start numbers--3.4 seconds 0-to-60 mph, 6.0 seconds 0-to-100 mph, and the 10.7-second quarter mile at 143.8 mph--are all the work of Saleen's in-house shoe, who took at least 14 runs (we normally figure on about five) to get a result he was happy with. Until we're given the opportunity to test the S7 Twin Turbo in exactly the same manner as we've tested cars like the Enzo, Carerra GT, and Mercedes SLR (in other words, we track test the same car we drive on the road after having weighed it, and the runs are done with a full tank of gas), we'll call these results provisional.

From here

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/exotic/112_0605_2007_saleen_s7_twin_turbo/index.html

Which was posted up at the Motor Trend website in May of this year, in addition the front cover of the issue that the MT website is currently detailing does not mention covering the S7 TT...

...which would be a bit of a surprise if they had verified it as faster than the Veyron times.

Now I am not totally dismissing this, but until I can see some more info on this article I will stick with what MT say in the linked article and "call these results provisional".

Regards

Scaff

 

[Poverty]

Wait a second, this coming from the guy who barks at the Z06 interior quality?

The Z06 isnt a stripped out racer. It weighs around 1500kg (rounded figure) and therefore for its weight and purpose, and its competition. the interior is extremly poor. If it was meant to be a lightweight, weight saving track screamer no one would care.

Also I thought the veyron has been independantly tested now, as some magazines say they pulled 2.5's for 0-60/0-62?

 

[Scaff]

Also I thought the veyron has been independantly tested now, as some magazines say they pulled 2.5's for 0-60/0-62?

Autocar included one in this years 0-100-0 shootout

0-30mph - 1.4 secs
0-60mph - 2.8 secs
0-100mph - 5.50 secs
Reaction time - 0.2 secs
100-0mph - 3.40 secs
Overall 0-100-0 - 9.90 secs

Only figures I have easily to hand.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Poverty]

I would if I could...

Saleen S7
0-30:1.5
0-40:2.2
0-50:2.9
0-60:3.2
0-70:3.9
0-80:4.7
0-90:5.4
0-100:6.2
0-110:7.0
0-120:8.4
0-130:9.5
0-140:10.9
0-150:13.6
0-160:15.6
0-200:23.4*
5-60:3.5
1/4mi:10.9@140.00mph
Top Speed (claimed) 248
1/2 mi: 16.5@171.8mph*
3/4mi: 21.4@193mph*
1 Mile: 25.9@205.7mph*

Bugatti Veyron
0-30:1.2
0-40:1.7
0-50:2.2
0-60:2.7
0-70:3.4
0-80:4.0
0-90:4.8
0-100:5.7
1/4mi:10.9@139.9mph
Top Speed: 252

The bugatti veyron hits 200mph in 14 secs, I think your figures for the veyron are a little off.

Only figures I have easily to hand.

I think evo tested the veyron against a whole load of supercars and it came out ontop, I will go look for that article.

 

[Deathclown66]

The bugatti veyron hits 200mph in 14 secs, I think your figures for the veyron are a little off.



I think evo tested the veyron against a whole load of supercars and it came out ontop, I will go look for that article.

I think you should look, long and hard if you want to see the Veyron hit 200 in 14 seconds
the lola-ford cosworth champ car (open wheeler) reached 188 in 15 seconds, and thats with a 1/4 of 9.9@161mph

 

[Poverty]

VAG claims the veyron can hit 200mph in 14 secs and I have no reason to doubt them. VAG are usually conservative with their figures. (note: Im not trying to say that maybe the veryon could be even quicker, Im just stating that VAG are the type to make sure that their vehicles live up to the claims)

 

[Dave A]

I think it hit 186mph in 14 seconds or 14 point something seconds, VAG claimed it would hit 200mph in under 20 seconds. Motortrend managed to hit 150mph in the Veyron in just 11.3 seconds, some 2.3 seconds faster than thoes S7 TT times.

 

[Deathclown66]

VAG claims the veyron can hit 200mph in 14 secs and I have no reason to doubt them. VAG are usually conservative with their figures. (note: Im not trying to say that maybe the veryon could be even quicker, Im just stating that VAG are the type to make sure that their vehicles live up to the claims)

I've got a question for ya: What do you think 1000hp is, exactly?
here are some numbers from other 1000HP cars.
2006 Dodge Viper Hennesey Coupe
1100HP
3468lb
.39cd
1/4: 11.0 @ 145.5mph
1 MI: 26.2@217.85mph

2005 Dodge Viper Hennesey Venom 1000
1000HP
3430LB
.39cd
1 MI: 25.6@210.2mph
0-200mph: 21.3

So, what would make a Veyron reach 200mph 6 seconds faster, than an 1100lb lighter car, that only took 0.4 longer to reach 140mph?

Motortrend managed to hit 150mph in the Veyron in just 11.3 seconds, some 2.3 seconds faster than thoes S7 TT times.

Where are you getting these figures?
In my hand, I am holding MOTORTREND, and in it contains their road test of the Veyron, which states no 0-150 time, simply a 10.4 0-139.9 1/4 mi run.
and no, I don't believe it only takes it .9 to reach 150, based on other 1000+ hp cars.

 

[Dave A]

Poverty's mistaken on that claim, it's 186,mph in 14. something, not 200mph. 200mph has been recorded at 22 seconds but VAG claim it can do it under 20 seconds.

 

[Poverty]

So, what would make a Veyron reach 200mph 6 seconds faster, than an 1100lb lighter car, that only took 0.4 longer to reach 140mph?

higher power, and more consistent power at that. Plus the veyrons minium power is 987hp, but it can be as much as 200hp ontop of that.

Plus I can show you tons of examples where ordinary tuned cars with 600hp and above struggle to get near 200mph. I dont know why it happens, im not an engineer but its a fact.

PS

The R33 GTR HKS drag car does a 7.95 sec 1/4 mile at 292 km/h. Europes fastest skyline with 1000hp doesnt do anywhere near that, and struggles to pull around the 210mph mark.

PPS

Are those viper figures confirmed yet, cause last I checked they were one of a long list of cars that have claimed to come near, or to topple the veyron is top speed and acceleration, yet never prove it. Also those vipers arent very reliable once hennessy has touched them, and if you order one, the chances of it arriving seem to be next to none

 

[Deathclown66]

Poverty's mistaken on that claim, it's 186,mph in 14. something, not 200mph. 200mph has been recorded at 22 seconds but VAG claim it can do it under 20 seconds.

it does not reach 186 in 14 anything, no, i'm sorry, but you are mistaken, that insinuates a 6+ second time of 186-200mph, which would be possible, if it shifted twice and couldnt go over 210, but the car can do 250+, so no, physics say no.

higher power, and more consistent power at that. Plus the veyrons minium power is 987hp, but it can be as much as 200hp ontop of that.

Plus I can show you tons of examples where ordinary tuned cars with 600hp and above struggle to get near 200mph. I dont know why it happens, im not an engineer but its a fact.

nice point, the veyron could have a lot more power than we think, so we're going to assume it does, and claim rediculous numbers, that are ludacris for anything short of 2000hp, and when people don't reach them, we'll say they "got a 987hp version"

The R33 GTR HKS drag car does a 7.95 sec 1/4 mile at 292 km/h. Europes fastest skyline with 1000hp doesnt do anywhere near that, and struggles to pull around the 210mph mark.

Interesting, but I don't know hoe much power that drag car has.

Are those viper figures confirmed yet, cause last I checked they were one of a long list of cars that have claimed to come near, or to topple the veyron is top speed and acceleration, yet never prove it. Also those vipers arent very reliable once hennessy has touched them, and if you order one, the chances of it arriving seem to be next to none

Those are from R&T's FLAT-OUT test, and MT's TARGET ZO6 test.
so yes, they are confirmed
The only unconfirmed mark set is Henneseys 258mph top speed for the 1100hp Viper

 

[Poverty]

it does not reach 186 in 14 anything, no, i'm sorry, but you are mistaken, that insinuates a 6+ second time of 186-200mph, which would be possible, if it shifted twice and couldnt go over 210, but the car can do 250+, so no, physics say no.

nice point, the veyron could have a lot more power than we think, so we're going to assume it does, and claim rediculas numbers, that are ludacris for anything short of 2000hp, and when people don't reach them, we'll say they "got a 987hp version"

Interesting, but I don't know hoe much power that drag car has.


Those are from R&T's FLAT-OUT test, and MT's TARGET ZO6 test.
so yes, they are confirmed
The only unconfirmed mark set is Henneseys 258mph top speed for the 1100hp Viper

Yet you think those vipers can?

The drag car has 1100hp

I cant be bothered to explain to you about the veryons fluctuation power, so lets hope another member will.

Can I ask why you decided to compare the saleen and viper to the veyron?

 

[the Interceptor]

I have a video where a Veyron hits 210 km/h (about 130 mph) in something around 8 seconds. Interested?

 

[Dave A]

That's only a 6+ seconds time if you trake it from 14 seconds dead and if you discount the concept that it may as VAG claim, be able to hit 200mph in under 20 seconds. If it hit's 200mph in 19 seconds then that's 4 seconds something from 180mph. For the record Motortrend have tested the 0-300kph time of the car in it was in 16.7 seconds. Motortrend also hit 100kph in 2.5 seconds and 200kph in 7.1 seconds.

 

[1X83Z]

I have a video where a Veyron hits 210 km/h (about 130 mph) in something around 8 seconds. Interested?

Very. Link?

 

[Poverty]

I have a video of a veyron and superbike racing, no przes for who smokes who but its a nice video, especially when the carrera GT comes along to play.

My one major criticism of the veyron is the exhaust note at speed, the growl is so deep that most cameras wont record it at speed over the wind noise.

 

[Deathclown66]

Yet you think those vipers can?

The drag car has 1100hp

I cant be bothered to explain to you about the veryons fluctuation power, so lets hope another member will.

Can I ask why you decided to compare the saleen and viper to the veyron?

I think those Vipers can what? hit 200 in 14 seconds? hell no, not even close.
If you can't be "bothered" to explain a 20% fluctuation in power, that's fantastic, but I'll let you know no other manufacture claims that kind of inconsistency.
I compared a Saleen to the Veyron, because I noticed so many simlaritys in performance numbers, I brought the Vipers in because you then claimed the Veyron to be so much more powerful, and made rediculous claims as for it's performance, claims that are only reached well into the 4 digit power mark, not scraping the surface.
So, what would make a 1000hp car reach 200mph 9 seconds faster than a car with 1100lb less weight to lug, 100hp more to push? you do realize your talking literally almost twice as fast, right?
even if it takes 20 seconds, what would make it be 3 full seconds quicker to 200, especially given a supposed slower top speed, with figure to back it up?

That's only a 6+ seconds time if you trake it from 14 seconds dead and if you discount the concept that it may as VAG claim, be able to hit 200mph in under 20 seconds. If it hit's 200mph in 19 seconds then that's 4 seconds something from 180mph. For the record Motortrend have tested the 0-300kph time of the car in it was in 16.7 seconds. Motortrend also hit 100kph in 2.5 seconds and 200kph in 7.1 seconds.

First off, I am American, kph means nothing to me. but I used a calculator for you.
Second off, please, provide a link or something other than "motortrend", because they have severely underacheived this time around, unless it took them 3.3 seconds to go from 124mph to 139.9mph.

Also, what makes you guys seem to think that the Veyron would be so much faster than other cars around the same power? quicker than an open-wheeler, faster than a car that hits 218 in a standing mile, and 6mph faster than a Veyron in the quarter, without an AWD launch?

 

[JCE]

Carrera GT FTW!

 

[Dave A]

I compared a Saleen to the Veyron, because I noticed so many simlaritys in performance numbers, I brought the Vipers in because you then claimed the Veyron to be so much more powerful, and made rediculous claims as for it's performance, claims that are only reached well into the 4 digit power mark, not scraping the surface.

Actually the Veyron does have more than 1000bhp, it's reported to have closer to 1100bhp at sea level.

So, what would make a 1000hp car reach 200mph 9 seconds faster than a car with 1100lb less weight to lug, 100hp more to push? you do realize your talking literally almost twice as fast, right?

Grip, power delivery, power band, aerodynamics, gearing to name a few things can have a big effect on acceleration and speed. I don't know what figures your comapring o to get that 9 seconds comment, I thought it was pretty clear the Poverty was simply mistaken with his 14 seconds to 200mph comment.

even if it takes 20 seconds, what would make it be 3 full seconds quicker to 200, especially given a supposed slower top speed, with figure to back it up?

I'm having trouble understanding the point your getting at here, sorry this comment just doesn't make much sense to me. 3 full seconds over what? What's slower top speed, which figure who has to back what up?

First off, I am American, kph means nothing to me. but I used a calculator for you.

100kph=62 mph, 300kph = 186mph.

Second off, please, provide a link or something other than "motortrend", because they have severely underacheived this time around, unless it took them 3.3 seconds to go from 124mph to 139.9mph.

Okay, Motortrend - November 2006 issue - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron_16.4.

Also, what makes you guys seem to think that the Veyron would be so much faster than other cars around the same power?

I covered that earlier, there's many reasons why one car can be faster than other cars with the same or similar power, the higher the speeds the more notable the differences become.

 

[Scaff]

Second off, please, provide a link or something other than "motortrend", because they have severely underacheived this time around, unless it took them 3.3 seconds to go from 124mph to 139.9mph.

Just a quick reminder that you used Motor Trend in your opening post for the Veyron figures, so why do you now have a problem with them being used?

Also, what makes you guys seem to think that the Veyron would be so much faster than other cars around the same power? quicker than an open-wheeler, faster than a car that hits 218 in a standing mile, and 6mph faster than a Veyron in the quarter, without an AWD launch?

You are aware of exactly how aerodynamically challenged open-wheel cars are, by the very design the create a huge amount of drag, those open wheels are a major problem when it comes to acceleration at high speed and achieving high speed itself. Not a great comparison to use for this particular case.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Deathclown66]

Actually the Veyron does have more than 1000bhp, it's reported to have closer to 1100bhp at sea level.

It's reported by a posted dyno? or by heresay?
You know what I've noticed? All the arguments in favor of the fan-boy car, (veyron), are based on speculation thus far.
we've got a few tests, all with contradicting numbers, a company that claims ignorance to it's own vehicles power, and a bunch of googly-eyed people with minds throbbing with curiosity.
And curiosity creates speculation.

Grip, power delivery, power band, aerodynamics, gearing to name a few things can have a big effect on acceleration and speed. I don't know what figures your comapring o to get that 9 seconds comment, I thought it was pretty clear the Poverty was simply mistaken with his 14 seconds to 200mph comment.

Grip, in a 0-200 run.... by a car that runs a quoted .6 faster in the 1/4, at over 5mph slower speed.... suddenly gains 3 seconds before 200, even though it's top speed is lower than the more powerful cars?
Power delivery, umm, we are basing this on acceleration numbers, so power delivery is a mute issue, unless you meant grip, which would be repeating yourself.
Powerband An 8.5L Twin Turbo Viper doesn't have a fantastic powerband now? or is the Veyron's somehow magically that much better? Considering the Viper has very, very close, if not the Best powerband of all the supercars in the world, before it gets twin turbocharging...
Aeorodynamics The Veyrons chance here, as the Viper does not shine in this catagory, (Saleen does) nevertheless, the Viper hits 218mph in just one mile, from a standstill, and is realistically claimed to hit 258mph, math does not permit the Veyron reach 145mph slower, have a slower top speed, but weirdly go faster, (TONS) in between. Nope, it's common sense.
GearingAgain, the Veyron has what should be far better, being essentially a 7-speed auto, however, the Viper doesn't reach 5th until over 200mph, and the gears don't hold it back between 0-150, nor keep it from reaching 250+, so common sense to the rescue again!

I'm having trouble understanding the point your getting at here, sorry this comment just doesn't make much sense to me. 3 full seconds over what? What's slower top speed, which figure who has to back what up?

3 full seconds over the car I posted with a 23 second 0-200mph time. The car that is not claimed to reach 258, matter of fact, we know that it can't.
You know the engineers of the Veyron said it takes 7 hp for every mph gained, at 253mph, for the veyron? so claiming it could go 270mph would be a mistake right now.

100kph=62 mph, 300kph = 186mph.

Did I seem confused on the issue? Did I not post with full knowledge of the numbers?

Okay, Motortrend - November 2006 issue - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron_16.4.

I covered that earlier, there's many reasons why one car can be faster than other cars with the same or similar power, the higher the speeds the more notable the differences become.

Very interesting, As I own the actual Magazine, I'll check that site, and see if it agrees with you, if it does, rest assured I will be writing MT on Monday, to see how they got such contradictory numbers between website and article.

Just a quick reminder that you used Motor Trend in your opening post for the Veyron figures, so why do you now have a problem with them being used?

Because they directly contradict the very issue of motortrend he's talking about's actual magazine article, that's why.
Yes, open-wheeled cars are bad aerodynamically. do we know the veyrons aerodynamic ratings?