Veyron - Super Fast?

[the Interceptor]

So, when you say driveability, you mean high-speed driveability? Most likely you are right.
And I have no doubt that the Veyron is by far the best 1000BHP car to putt around town in. But I still think that out of all of the cars that are on sale today that even something as lowly Geo Metro driven by John Q. Shmuck would be easier to drive around town in than the Veyron driven by Rich Uncle Pennybags; making the whole idea of the Veyron being the most drivable veihicle in a class of rediculously undrivable cars rather pointless. The day someone uses a Veyron to go get groceries at P&C is the day I'll eat my words, but until then I stand by it. Just imagine someone trying to park the thing, not to mention the problems it would probably give you when you had to stop for gas everytime you entered a town.

A huge part of this discussion is based on theory anyway, so despite noone will probably ever use a Veyron as a daily driver, it still stands to be the best of the worst. The point is that you have a very high performance car here that does all the rest as well. This package is what makes the Veyron so special in my eyes, that makes it stand out from the rest.

And why did you edit your post out? I saw nothing objectionable to the post from either side of the Veyron spectrum, and it was actually the truth.

It may have been right, but I misread. I referred to the "best car ever", when the subject actually was the "fastest car ever". I found my statements about claims sufficient anyway.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[Dave A]

I'd figured that someone was going to post the EB110SS' interior and try to apply it to all of them, but I'm surprised it was you.

That's the normal car.It was superceded by cars before the first one was even sold.

To be honest I didn't know there was even a difference, I just did a quick search. While the normal one is significantly better it is still not on a par with the Veyron. Though it is a lot better than all the others.

With regards to the Veyrons drivability, all I've seen on TV and read in magazines barring Gordon Murray's comments are that it's excellent, it's extremely agile and nimble and it's very comfortable ect. It's not a particulalry big car either, unless you consider a BMW M5 to be so big it's hard to naviagte around town and to park. I do agree that all that's relative to other supercars though, and that in real world usage a Ford Mondeo would by far be the easier car to use, but in a similar line of thought it's stupid to be complaining about price in a world of stupidly priced penis extensions and people who earn at least a million a month.

 

[Tornado]

With regards to the Veyrons drivability, all I've seen on TV and read in magazines barring Gordon Murray's comments are that it's excellent, it's extremely agile and nimble and it's very comfortable ect. It's not a particulalry big car either, unless you consider a BMW M5 to be so big it's hard to naviagte around town and to park. I do agree that all that's relative to other supercars though, and that in real world usage a Ford Mondeo would by far be the easier car to use, but in a similar line of thought it's stupid to be complaining about price in a world of stupidly priced penis extensions and people who earn at least a million a month.

I was thinking more in line with how wide the car is, and how low it is.
Edit: I forgot to apoligise for implying that you were making blanket statements.

 

[Dave A]

It's 1.5 cm wider than an M5. that's less than the width of my thumb, it's over 4cm shorter than the M5. I don't think it's ride height would be too much of a problem either, at least not relative to a car like the Pagani Zonda, it's overhangs are very short but I wouldn't want to test that over a few or the more notorious sleeping policemen in my area.

 

[Tornado]

It's 1.5 cm wider than an M5. that's less than the width of my thumb, it's over 4cm shorter than the M5.

The numbers I have peg it at 152 mm wider than the M5, which is 15.2 cm wider. Or about 6 inches.

 

[Dave A]

No your right, I was reading the numbers wrong , it is 15.1cm wider which is a pretty big difference.

 

[Deathclown66]

So your doubting the legitimacy of my claim?
Test was done by auto motor und sport.
LP640 at 3.4 secs
599 did 3.5 secs
997TT 3.7
SLR 3.8
Ford GT 3.9
Z06 4.0
SRT-10 VIPER 4.3
Vanquish S 5.3

Oddly, as this German magazine tested all these cars, the non-German vehicles all have hyper-slow times, compared with American magazine tests. Why is this odd? because the German cars all have very similar numbers, but do not exceed.
Case in Point, while the American mags I've seen tested german cars just as quickly as the German mag, the German mag ran the American cars to pitifully slow times. (And the Brit)
Interesting.....


On Another topic, I keep hearing, "what would the Veyron do if it's interior was stripped like the Saleens."
What exactly do you think the Saleen doesn't have? A/C? Radio? Cd/dvd player? rear-facing camera connected to LCD TV screen employed as a rear-view mirror, for better visability?

 

[skip0110]

Case in Point, while the American mags I've seen tested german cars just as quickly as the German mag, the German mag ran the American cars to pitifully slow times. (And the Brit)
Interesting.....

Glad to see I'm not the only one who notices this 👍

 

[1X83Z]

So if Bugatti and all of VAG went out of business right now, the Bugatti would be as well.

Bugatti has made 70. More than the McLaren you probably feel is better. Seventy is more than eleven. Ya know?

 

[harrytuttle]

The interior of a 959 looks like this:

No wonder you think Pontiac makes good interiors - your sole critera for "good" is "leather!"

That's nice, but just so we're clear:

Mercedes 560SL 1987 (same year as Porsche 959)

Mercedes SL550 2007 (same year as Bugatti Veyron)

BMW M6 1987

BMW M6 2007

Finally, for a more appropriate comparison:
Porsche Carrera GT, 2006

Koenigsegg CC8
http://www.supercars.net/PicFetch?pic=936-6.jpg



Does that make things clearer for everyone? Comparing automotive interiors from 20 years ago means nothing. Interior design is mostly driven by popular trends, by whatever looks good at the moment. Even the Ferrari 456M interior looks lame compared to the 612S today, and that's only a difference of 10 years.

The 959 in particular was planned as a Gruppe B racer, so luxury was never in the plans (although it was as luxurious as any other 1987 911). The F40 was meant as a road-racer, much like the Enzo still is today; not a homologation special (CLK-GTR), but designed as if it was.

In regards to planning & target market, the Veyron does actually have strange echoes of the McLaren F1. It's the fastest of its time, it has top-end luxury accoutrements, it's quite easy to drive, and is priced only for the rarest of clients. It lacks only the joy of driving that even a 328Ci has for 4% of the price...

What's funny is, you're saying the 959 was nowhere near the Veyron's price new, when today it's common to find 959s going for around the Veyron's present price.

There's many different factors that cause this. In the US, the 959 is all but non-existent. It's also a spectacular car that stands the test of time. Contemporaries like the F40 & XJ220 are either too common or too lame. Also, accounting for inflation, the 959 would run just under US$400,000 (US$230,000 in 1987, calculator here). I never consider aftermarket or auction sales to compare an old car to a new car. Old cars can be compared to each other by auction sales, but even then it's a strange unit of measure. There's too many chaotic & subjective variables involved.

Bugatti has made 70. More than the McLaren you probably feel is better. Seventy is more than eleven. Ya know?

You're just not on your game today. I can't verify how many Bugatti has manufactured, but 70 orders (March 2006) does not mean 70 cars built. I'm sure they'll build all 300 eventually, but they haven't yet. As for the McLaren, right from "Driving Ambition" reads the following statistics:

Base road car: 64
GTR: 28
LM: 5
GT: 2

That's 99, plus 1 spare chassis & 7 prototypes. Of those, the GTR's were officially used for racing (28). All, of course, have been delivered.

 

[1X83Z]

You're just not on your game today. I can't verify how many Bugatti has manufactured, but 70 orders (March 2006) does not mean 70 cars built. I'm sure they'll build all 300 eventually, but they haven't yet. As for the McLaren, right from "Driving Ambition" reads the following statistics:

Base road car: 64
GTR: 28
LM: 5
GT: 2

That's 99, plus 1 spare chassis & 7 prototypes. Of those, the GTR's were officially used for racing (28). All, of course, have been delivered.

Thank you for showing that the 959 had an even more spartan interior than most "average" (or, not supercars) cars of its time. I'd take the M6's interior of the the 959's interior any day. I mean christ, the steering wheel from the 959 came right out of 1964. And the Carrera GT's serves to simply show how far superior the Veyron is to "regular" ultracars (noting, mind you, that the Carrera GT is my favorite supercar).

Yes, you have the figures right for the McLaren F1, and obviously I'm not including the GTRs in the production total, since they were never sold to the public. The number of F1s built for the public is 64, plus the seven extra models. Regarding the Veyron: "In March 2006, Bugatti president Bscher claimed to have 70 firm orders, selling out 14 months of production. In response, the company is reportedly speeding up production, with all 70 cars expected to be built in 2006." Indeed, Bugatti is likely tied with McLaren's 64 figure and will have exceeded it within the next two months. Obviously, the Veyron will end up with four to five times the number of McLaren F1s, as production calls for 300 vehicles.

 

[daan]

Regarding the Veyron: "In March 2006, Bugatti president Bscher claimed to have 70 firm orders, selling out 14 months of production. In response, the company is reportedly speeding up production, with all 70 cars expected to be built in 2006." Indeed, Bugatti is likely tied with McLaren's 64 figure and will have exceeded it within the next two months. Obviously, the Veyron will end up with four to five times the number of McLaren F1s, as production calls for 300 vehicles.

Just pointing out possible flaws with wikipedia.

In March 2006, Bugatti president Bscher claimed to have 70 firm orders, selling out 14 months of production. In response, the company is reportedly speeding up production, with all 70 cars expected to be built in 2006.

And as that was March, why hasn't it been updated. Exactly how many have they built now?

 

[the Interceptor]

Oddly, as this German magazine tested all these cars, the non-German vehicles all have hyper-slow times, compared with American magazine tests. Why is this odd? because the German cars all have very similar numbers, but do not exceed.
Case in Point, while the American mags I've seen tested german cars just as quickly as the German mag, the German mag ran the American cars to pitifully slow times. (And the Brit)
Interesting.....

Any figures for comparison at hand?

 

[Famine]

Oddly, as this German magazine tested all these cars, the non-German vehicles all have hyper-slow times, compared with American magazine tests. Why is this odd? because the German cars all have very similar numbers, but do not exceed.
Case in Point, while the American mags I've seen tested german cars just as quickly as the German mag, the German mag ran the American cars to pitifully slow times. (And the Brit)
Interesting.....

Glad to see I'm not the only one who notices this 👍

Could it be that German magazines test German cars just as quickly as American magazines do, but American magazines test American cars to much faster times than German magazines?

 

[TheCracker]

Thank you for showing that the 959 had an even more spartan interior than most "average" (or, not supercars) cars of its time. I'd take the M6's interior of the the 959's interior any day. I mean christ, the steering wheel from the 959 came right out of 1964.

Of course, the 959 interior was little changed from the contemporary 911 it was heavily based on. It's interior was criticised when new for this very reason. Its never been classed as luxurious.

 

[Dave A]

Oddly, as this German magazine tested all these cars, the non-German vehicles all have hyper-slow times, compared with American magazine tests. Why is this odd? because the German cars all have very similar numbers, but do not exceed.
Case in Point, while the American mags I've seen tested german cars just as quickly as the German mag, the German mag ran the American cars to pitifully slow times. (And the Brit)
Interesting.....

Either way theres a 0-60 in 2.5 seconds there for the Veyron. Poverty, any chance of scanning the full article?

On Another topic, I keep hearing, "what would the Veyron do if it's interior was stripped like the Saleens."
What exactly do you think the Saleen doesn't have? A/C? Radio? Cd/dvd player? rear-facing camera connected to LCD TV screen employed as a rear-view mirror, for better visability?

Diamonds in the dash, gold topped gear nob . I wouldn't have though the S7 had as much padding, sound proofing ect than the Veyron but even removing that wouldn't reuce the Veyrons weight that much really. There's a decent ammount of weight in the Veyron coming from the 10 radiators and it's 4wd system so even if you stripped everything out you'd probably still be looking at around 1500-1600kgs.

 

[Deathclown66]

Could it be that German magazines test German cars just as quickly as American magazines do, but American magazines test American cars to much faster times than German magazines?

That could be, as you say.
But the Aston Martin was also tested to a pitifully slow time of 5.3 to boot.
So unless American mags all favor Brit & American cars over German cars (yeah, right), I doubt it's the Americans running the odd-ball times.

@ Interceptor
I am surprised by your seemed thought of a Z06 running a 4.0 being close to normal. Or the Viper running a 4.3. Or the GT time. But hey, that's your call.

June 2003 R&T:
Dodge Viper: 3.94

March 2005 MPH:
Aston Martin: 0-62: 5.0
Marc SLR: 0-62: 3.8 (nearly identical to German mag)

To tired to look for Z06 and Ford GT, but if you don't believe that they've both been clocked under 3.5, you're in for a hell of a surprise

 

[skip0110]

To tired to look for Z06 and Ford GT, but if you don't believe that they've both been clocked under 3.5, you're in for a hell of a surprise

Car and Driver sent a Z06 to 60 in 3.4 and 3.6 sec. on two instances. A Viper did it in 3.8 sec. This is from the Sep. 2005 issue.

Could it be that German magazines test German cars just as quickly as American magazines do, but American magazines test American cars to much faster times than German magazines?

Impossible. Are you implying that there is such a thing as a biased American?

 

[the Interceptor]

@ Interceptor
I am surprised by your seemed thought of a Z06 running a 4.0 being close to normal. Or the Viper running a 4.3. Or the GT time. But hey, that's your call.

I didn't make any claim of not believing it, I just asked for some comparison figures. Apart from that, I find any time of four seconds and below very quick for a car with "only" two propelled wheels. That does not only include the americal models, but especially the 599 and the SLR.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[1X83Z]

Just pointing out possible flaws with wikipedia.

And as that was March, why hasn't it been updated. Exactly how many have they built now?

You're right - and I presume you have a better source, since you're criticising mine.

 

[Poverty]

Oddly, as this German magazine tested all these cars, the non-German vehicles all have hyper-slow times, compared with American magazine tests. Why is this odd? because the German cars all have very similar numbers, but do not exceed.
Case in Point, while the American mags I've seen tested german cars just as quickly as the German mag, the German mag ran the American cars to pitifully slow times. (And the Brit)
Interesting.....

Then why did the ferrari do so well?

TBH with you I always take american figures as a pinch of salt as they are too inconsistent with manufacturer claims, and what european car mags get.

Italian and japanese mags are usually biased aswell but hell of alot worse than american one.

Poverty, any chance of scanning the full article?

 

[daan]

You're right - and I presume you have a better source, since you're criticising mine.

You agree I'm right, yet you say I'm criticising your source. Therefore you are criticising your own source. I'm confused.

 

[skip0110]

<scans>

In those scans, right there it says the 0-62 is not a measured number but a manufacturer claim.

Factory specification for zero to 100 km/h. Acceleration starting from 100 km/h was measured.

I wonder why the German magazine measures 0-62 mph for every other car, but uses VW's claim for the Veyron instead of an independent test number.

Could it be that the Veyron is not as fast as VW claims?

 

[Poverty]

I wonder why the German magazine measures 0-62 mph for every other car, but uses VW's claim for the Veyron instead of an independent test number.

Could it be that the Veyron is not as fast as VW claims?

Doubt it. They would have said so. I think the most likely reason is that the equipment couldnt measure it or something along those lines?

Actually I have no idea., although I wouldnt doubt the time cause look at what the LP640 pulled and the 599 and several other magazines have pulled similiar times.

 

[Scaff]

So we have no evidence yet of measured 0-60 stats.

Yes we do, the Autocar figures that I have now posted up twice, 0-60 in 2.8 seconds.

What we don't yet have is an independent 0-60 time that backs up the manufacturers claim.

👍

Scaff

 

[skip0110]

Yes we do, the Autocar figures that I have now posted up twice, 0-60 in 2.8 seconds.

What we don't yet have is an independent 0-60 time that backs up the manufacturers claim.

👍

Scaff

Ahh, my bad, 'tis a long thread and I forgot/missed those.

 

[Tornado]

Bugatti has made 70. More than the McLaren you probably feel is better. Seventy is more than eleven. Ya know?

You missed the point entirely. Yeah, there are more Bugatti's than Cizeta's. But remember, the Cizeta was not supposed to be that small in amount! I'm sure Bugatti spa wanted to build more than the 126 that they ended up building before they went out of business as well.
If Bugatti and VAG were to go out of business right now, would the Veyron be considered the same fate as the V16T (as you so eloquently put it: A "Concept car")? That was the question. And until 65 come off the line (which I doubt has happened already), it still isn't a production car.

 

[Deathclown66]

Doubt it. They would have said so. I think the most likely reason is that the equipment couldnt measure it or something along those lines?

My source can clock an f-18 at 318mph, and they say the Veyron runs a 2.7 0-60.
Advantage: My Source.

Actually I have no idea., although I wouldnt doubt the time cause look at what the LP640 pulled and the 599 and several other magazines have pulled similiar times.

That's right, you have no idea.
I do, and it's in the back of everyone's minds. They had the car, yet they claim to not have tested it. So either, A. they were afraid it would not make par. or, B. It didn't make par.
You seem desperate to find any excuse for the Veyron to run with VAG claims, yet you're the second person in this thread to claim a 2.5 as fact, only to post an article or link, that clearly states it's simply a manufactures claim.
Myself, and Scaff have posted two credible sources, that actually drove the car, to .2 and .3 seconds worse.

0-60 in 2.7 seconds is very good. Take it, and be happy.

Yes we do, the Autocar figures that I have now posted up twice, 0-60 in 2.8 seconds.

Not to be argumentitive, but the MotorTrend article I based this thread on ran it to a 2.7, and since I generally go with the fastest time I see, (barring freak runs), I'll make no exceptions in this case, despite the consistent flow of VAG claims being posted as fact.
Along with that though, as I stated multiple times in this thread, that is with MT's famous "climate corrections".
So it's pretty likely that MT ran a 2.8, and the corrections made it a 2.7

The Saleen S7 TT has yet to see the benefit of MT's corrections.
http://www.supercars.net/cars/3090.html

I can't seem to get a picture to come up, so here's a link to the Saleen's interior, since this has somewhat become a "interior's good though" thread.

 

[Philly]

rigghht...

The Bugatti is so fast that it just can't be measured. Face it.

 

[Scaff]

Not to be argumentitive, but the MotorTrend article I based this thread on ran it to a 2.7, and since I generally go with the fastest time I see, (barring freak runs), I'll make no exceptions in this case, despite the consistent flow of VAG claims being posted as fact.
Along with that though, as I stated multiple times in this thread, that is with MT's famous "climate corrections".
So it's pretty likely that MT ran a 2.8, and the corrections made it a 2.7

Not a problem at all, the exact conditions of any test will always result in slight variations.

What I can say is that the Autocar figures will not have been corrected, as they were recorded as part of the annual 0-100-0 shootout, which they run under world record conditions (as a number of records have been set in the past during these shootouts). I know that as far as data capture goes they use the Racelogic V-box system.

You are also quite right that a time of 2.7/2.8 is still damn good, but the Veyron has not been independently (and uncorrected) timed any quicker than a 2.8.

I do also feel I have to throw another car into the mix here, as up to the 100mph mark its currently a very serious contender, and that's the Ultima GTR.

http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/records/index.html

rigghht...

The Bugatti is so fast that it just can't be measured. Face it.

And what exactly did this add to the thread?

Post if you have something constructive to add to a thread, not simply for the sake of it.


Regards

Scaff