Video games...we don't play no stink'in video games!!

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My biggest disappointment with GT5 physics is the lack of a proper suspension feedback, somwthing that GTR2 did pretty well. You can feel this issue expecially with SuperGT, those cars are sticked to the ground in Gt5 and seems like racing on rails, zero suspension bouncing, that's not very realistic. And what about that buzzing sound once you equip a custom gear box?.. How annying is that?
On positive notes, I like the way some road cars handle and behave. GT5 gives his best as a road cars simulator.
 
Goshin2568
Heres the important thing though. If you took two drivers, both with 2 hours on track experience, and one with 100's hours of gt5 exp, He will win.

That is kind of confusing. If one driver had only 2 hours track experience, and the other had 2 hours track exp PLUS 100's hours of GT5. The latter would win.

I never said it would make you "Good", however you define that. I just said it would make you better than you are.
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You may very well be right! I just don't think GT5 would improve ones driving that much as to the point of getting an advantage in a real race on a real track. But that's just my opinion :)
 
There is NO question whatsoever than Gran Turismo skills translate into real life.

I have been playing Gran Turismo for almost fifteen years (i'm 25 now). I did not get my real drivers license until I was 18.

GT5 helps with lines and learning the basics for sure. It also helps with learning racing instincts. Driving fast requires you to not think about what your doing - just do it. Gran Turismo teaches you those instincts. The ability to make instant reactions to a cars behavior, is something that a hard core GT5 gamer will be able to instantly translate directly into a real car. Someone with no gaming experience, will need to learn this (takes years).

Gran Turismo (online) also teaches you how to be respectful, learn patience, and understand how to drive in high speed traffic.

Also it teaches you about physics. You learn what happens when you combine inputs and what makes the car unsettled. You learn about being smooth and how to manipulate the way the car works.

I put a car on a race track for the first time in my life at an SCCA AutoX when I was 20 years old. On my first day of Hi-Po driving EVER, I was 2nd fastest of the day and only .07 off the fast lap.

At the first endurance race I entered IRL, I joined a team of experienced racers. I had done nothing but AutoX. I was the fastest driver on my team by over 3 seconds per lap. I was also the only one never to put a tire in the grass, or touch an opponent even while racing in the rain.

Gran Turismo (all versions) will 100% make you a better driver in real life. No question.
 
Goshin2568
But there are long term techniques that do not require that feedback to learn. And many hours of seat time in GT5 can teach you those.
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Can does not equal will. On a race track, you will learn what you are taught. That's how you move into other classes. If you've been in a beginner class forever, chances are you just don't have the talent.
 
ell470
You may very well be right! I just don't think GT5 would improve ones driving that much as to the point of getting an advantage in a real race on a real track. But that's just my opinion :)
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I think it will over someone with ZERO or close to zero experience.
 
iamsupernasty
There is NO question whatsoever than Gran Turismo skills translate into real life.

I have been playing Gran Turismo for almost fifteen years (i'm 25 now). I did not get my real drivers license until I was 18.

GT5 helps with lines and learning the basics for sure. It also helps with learning racing instincts. Driving fast requires you to not think about what your doing - just do it. Gran Turismo teaches you those instincts. The ability to make instant reactions to a cars behavior, is something that a hard core GT5 gamer will be able to instantly translate directly into a real car. Someone with no gaming experience, will need to learn this (takes years).

Gran Turismo (online) also teaches you how to be respectful, learn patience, and understand how to drive in high speed traffic.

I put a car on a race track for the first time in my life at an SCCA AutoX when I was 20 years old. On my first day of Hi-Po driving EVER, I was 2nd fastest of the day and only .07 off the fast lap.

At the first endurance race I entered IRL, I joined a team of experienced racers. I had done nothing but AutoX. I was the fastest driver on my team by over 3 seconds per lap. I was also the only one never to put a tire in the grass, or touch an opponent even while racing in the rain.

Gran Turismo (all versions) will 100% make you a better driver in real life. No question.
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I've been playing the GT franchise since GT 1, I'm 28 now, I got my license at 24, so maybe GT has improved somethings in my driving, I don't really know :)
 
ell470
You may very well be right! I just don't think GT5 would improve ones driving that much as to the point of getting an advantage in a real race on a real track. But that's just my opinion :)
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Ok. I will give you a practical example. I am assuming you are a decent driver, with a wheel. Otherwise this won't work.

Get a stock car, that isn't afraid to kick it's tail out. 458, SLS, doesn't really matter. And have it on sport hards. Just no racing cars or anything, otherwise doesn't matter.

Go into practice mode, set SRF off ASM off etc. TC can be at 0 or 1 or something. Low.

Go around a corner and wait for the tail to kick out, to the point where you need to correct it to stay on track. And watch what your hands do. If you are anything like me, or any decent driver I have ever seen, you just correct it. That quick countersteer jerk and the moving the wheel to center.
You don't have to think about. It just happens. Because it's been done so many times, as soon as your eyes see it or your hands feel the FFB, your brain knows exactly what to do and does it.

Now, the feedback would be different in a real car, and it would take a few corners or laps to learn them, but after that, the muscle memory stays the same. The motions you make with your hands are the same.

That's just one example. Can you get that same muscle memory from hours and hours in a real car? Yes! Would it be better? Maybe. Probably, in fact. But it can still be learned in GT5.
 
GT5 is a video game.

I regard iRacing as a videogame, too. Any motorsport can be regarded as a sort of game "played" against the track, the conditions and your opponents.

It basically depends on your definition of "game". Is Football no "better" than Donkey Kong?
 
ell470
I've been playing the GT franchise since GT 1, I'm 28 now, I got my license at 24, so maybe GT has improved somethings in my driving, I don't really know :)
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Put a car on a real track. You'll see you are instantly comfortable - whereas someone whose never played GT will be extra nervous and completely unsure of what to do.

Or just go to a Go-Kart track. You'll see that you're instantly much faster than other people with similar real life experience.
 
Goshin2568
Ok. I will give you a practical example. I am assuming you are a decent driver, with a wheel. Otherwise this won't work.

Get a stock car, that isn't afraid to kick it's tail out. 458, SLS, doesn't really matter. And have it on sport hards. Just no racing cars or anything, otherwise doesn't matter.

Go into practice mode, set SRF off ASM off etc. TC can be at 0 or 1 or something. Low.

Go around a corner and wait for the tail to kick out, to the point where you need to correct it to stay on track. And watch what your hands do. If you are anything like me, or any decent driver I have ever seen, you just correct it. That quick countersteer jerk and the moving the wheel to center.
You don't have to think about. It just happens. Because it's been done so many times, as soon as your eyes see it or your hands feel the FFB, your brain knows exactly what to do and does it.

Now, the feedback would be different in a real car, and it would take a few corners or laps to learn them, but after that, the muscle memory stays the same. The motions you make with your hands are the same.

That's just one example. Can you get that same muscle memory from hours and hours in a real car? Yes! Would it be better? Maybe. Probably, in fact. But it can still be learned in GT5.
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I play GT5 with G27 only aid ABS set to 1. Fish tailing in game is hard to control whereas the same in real life I have no problem with whatsoever. During winters here in Sweden sliding around small forest roads is the most fun you can have without taking your clothes off ;)

Edit: usual typos
 
I also don't like it when people call it a simple game. GT is passion to me, car passion.
 
ell470
I play GT5 with G27 only aid ABS set to 1. Fish tailing in game is hard to control whereas the same in real life I have no problem with whatsoever. During winters here in Sweden sliding around small forest roads is the most fun you can have without taking your clothes off ;)

Edit: usual typos
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Different cars will cause different physics. Are you using the same car?
 
ell470
I play GT5 with G27 only aid ABS set to 1. Fish tailing in game is hard to control whereas the same in real life I have no problem with whatsoever. During winters here in Sweden sliding around small forest roads is the most fun you can have without taking your clothes off ;)
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Haha but in real life are you going 60, 70, 80 etc around the corners?
And I'm not sure what the issue is for you, but about 80% of tail kicking out I can correct without even thinking about it. That's my point. Muscle memory.
 
zr1chris
Different cars will cause different physics. Are you using the same car?
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Recovering from a slide in GT5 with a wheel, is much harder than in a real car in real life no matter what the car. In a real car you can feel everything that the car is doing, you can feel the car start to regain grip, and you can feel where the center of your wheel is. All of that is harder in GT5.

With that said, GT5 definitely teaches the instincts that are required to bring a squirly car back into shape IRL.
 
zr1chris
Different cars will cause different physics. Are you using the same car?
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Haha! No, how I wish I had a good (or even decent) car in real life :D


Goshin2568
Haha but in real life are you going 60, 70, 80 etc around the corners?
And I'm not sure what the issue is for you, but about 80% of tail kicking out I can correct without even thinking about it. That's my point. Muscle memory.
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No, of course not, doing 60 straight into a tree is not something I'd like to experience :)

I see your point however, anyway, I love GT5 and I love the physics engine, but even at low speeds I'm not good enough to keep control of the car during a skid. Drifting I tried, drifting I failed, kept doing donuts & gave up ;)

I'll agree that one can actually learn some driving from GT5 tho :)
 
ell470
Haha! No, how I wish I had a good (or even decent) car in real life :D




No, of course not, doing 60 straight into a tree is not something I'd like to experience :)

I see your point however, anyway, I love GT5 and I love the physics engine, but even at low speeds I'm not good enough to keep control of the car during a skid. Drifting I tried, drifting I failed, kept doing donuts & gave up ;)

I'll agree that one can actually learn some driving from GT5 tho :)
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Haha ya. I absolutely suck at drifting too. I can correct a slide, but I can't keep one going haha.
 
iamsupernasty
Recovering from a slide in GT5 with a wheel, is much harder than in a real car in real life no matter what the car. In a real car you can feel everything that the car is doing, you can feel the car start to regain grip, and you can feel where the center of your wheel is. All of that is harder in GT5.

With that said, GT5 definitely teaches the instincts that are required to bring a squirly car back into shape IRL.
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I wont disagree with you there but do you think it is more like that other game on that other console (extremely easy) or is it somewhere in the middle (which is where i think it should be).
 
When someone asks sarcastically 'are you still playing videogames?' I used to respond with explaining it's an advanced driving simulator accurately replicating the driving physics and handling aspects of real life cars, going into detail about the possibilities and effects of a proper set up, etc. which mostly didn't take away but actually increased their sarcasm and resulted in them viewing me as some obsessive geek instead of someone with a slightly childish hobby (in their eyes).

Nowadays I just smilingly respond with 'yes I do because it's fun' and then persuade them to try it themselves, give them some overpowered, overtuned supercar and say 'it's really easy, it has to be since it's even sold to small kids don't forget' and watch their smugness and sarcasm quickly being replaced by embarrassment.

As for GT5 itself, it's a videogame obviously.
 
Griffith500
It basically depends on your definition of "game". Is Football no "better" than Donkey Kong?
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If you mean by Football the sport played by Maradona and Pele and not that kind of rugby with helmets that people play in the US, then I can say that's more like religion than a game :sly:
 
Calamar
If you mean by Football the sport played by Maradona and Pele and not that kind of rugby with helmets that people play in the US, then I can say that's more like religion than a game :sly:
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A religion founded by bored women while they husbands were out at war. That's why being a sissy in soccer is rewarded, and why they purposely wear tiny short shorts.
 
ell470
I think that if you'd pit an GT5 gamer with 100's of play hours against a guy that's been driving on a real track for about just 2 hours, the guy with 2 hours of the real deal will win every time :)

If it's unclear, I'm on your side. I don't think GT5 or any race SIM (I view all of them as games) will make you a "good" race driver :)

Oh wait, did I quote the wrong post?
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2 words. Lucas Ordonez.....

Just because i play GT5 doesn't mean i don't have an M3 parked in my garage that i can throw around at a local track......Most people who play GT5 have driven a car before so its not like its a whole new world....
 
Blaze_409
2 words. Lucas Ordonez.....
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And the only racing/driving he did before becoming a pro was virtual?

I might be wrong, but I recall reading he frequently raced go-karts prior to GT5?

Anyway, you missed my point, my point being, you won't become a good racer solely from virtual racing. :)

Edit: you edited your post, so now we're practically saying the same thing ;)
 
ell470
And the only racing/driving he did before becoming a pro was virtual?

I might be wrong, but I recall reading he frequently raced go-karts prior to GT5?

Anyway, you missed my point, my point being, you won't become a good racer solely from virtual racing. :)
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Well...........alot can be said about that......

The real F1 simulators in Maranello, Milton keynes,Woking,etc..... will teach you driving......

Also the simulator at Wirth Research that the highcroft guys typically used....
i think those are good enough to teach one how to race....They simualte the g forces, brake pressure etc.....they simulators are so accurate that they use them to do setup work....


but even if you practice with a real simualtor their nothing like the real thing.......When you actually do it for reall other factors such as nervousness will screw up your driving or make you conservatve and slow..


lol of course you can;t become a race driver from virtual racing silly.....you have to get in a race car first...



EVen if GT5 isn;t a simmy as it could be.....It teaches you racecraft......Knowing how too pass without incident.....pit strategies etc.....
 
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analog
When someone asks sarcastically 'are you still playing videogames?' I used to respond with explaining it's an advanced driving simulator accurately replicating the driving physics and handling aspects of real life cars, going into detail about the possibilities and effects of a proper set up, etc. which mostly didn't take away but actually increased their sarcasm and resulted in them viewing me as some obsessive geek instead of someone with a slightly childish hobby (in their eyes).

Nowadays I just smilingly respond with 'yes I do because it's fun' and then persuade them to try it themselves, give them some overpowered, overtuned supercar and say 'it's really easy, it has to be since it's even sold to small kids don't forget' and watch their smugness and sarcasm quickly being replaced by embarrassment.

As for GT5 itself, it's a videogame obviously.
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I gave up on explaining a long time ago...
"Why do you still play videogames?"
"Because banging my head against a big brick block in the hopes of getting a coin or a mushroom just isn't that much fun in real life."
 
Blaze_409
Well...........alot can be said about that......

The real F1 simulators in Maranello, Milton keynes,Woking,etc..... will teach you driving......

Also the simulator at Wirth Research that the highcroft guys typically used....
i think those are good enough to teach one how to race....They simualte the g forces, brake pressure etc.....they simulators are so accurate that they use them to do setup work....

but even if you practice with a real simualtor their nothing like the real thing.......When you actually do it for reall other factors such as nervousness will screw up your driving or make you conservatve and slow..

lol of course you can;t become a race driver from virtual racing silly.....you have to get in a race car first...
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Agreed! :D

Trying one of those real simulators would be awesome! That would be the only way for me to dare going faster than 180km/h, that's the fastest I've ever driven in real life & that got the adrenaline rushing ;)
 
I get the joke in the title :lol:
 
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