Video games...we don't play no stink'in video games!!

[zutz]

Come on guys, game and sim are not mutually exclusive.

GT5 in its heart is pretty close to what I call a racing simulation. Of course it's also a game with the career mode and credit system etc.

 

[Rods_Ramone]

Just to put some gas in the fire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7cxMzm5tY0&sns=em
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article552096.ece
If my own expierence can tell u something, gt5 is a nice game. Only that. If want irl feel, buy a go kart.
If spend a whose week, for instance, practising in nurb if a ( pick a car here, yours mom or dads ) in gt5, and then went to real nurb for a spin, you will dye in the second corner, if not spin in the straighway.
What I really can not understand why people, north american and europeans ) prefer to argue in favour of gt ( in sense of a drive expierence ) than go to the real stuff? Thinks in those world parts seems to be more simple, organized and cheaper, than here, south america...
Lazyness?

 

[zutz]

If spend a whose week, for instance, practising in nurb if a ( pick a car here, yours mom or dads ) in gt5, and then went to real nurb for a spin, you will dye in the second corner, if not spin in the straighway.

U mad? I practised the track before i did my first laps and it actually helps you if you know the track.

And do you know how expensive a single lap on the ring is nowadays?

 

[Rods_Ramone]

CoD is a simulation of being in the military.
I don't let anyone call CoD a video game, cause its a simulation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RULv6HbgEjY&sns=em

Yeap, seems legit...
[/sarcasm]

 

[Rods_Ramone]

U mad? I practised the track before i did my first laps and it actually helps you if you know the track.

And do you know how expensive a single lap on the ring is nowadays?

http://www.nuerburgring.de/en/angebote/driving-experiences/tourist-rides-nordschleife.html
Yep. Seems affordable.

 

[zutz]

Yeah, once or twice a year for most people.

 

[Big Ron]

GT5 is a video game.

Yes , it is. Red Bull has a true simulator for their F1 drivers to practice car behaviour and track layout.

GT5 makes too much wrong to be a true simulator. I would say, it is in the simulation genre of racing games...that´s it.

GT5 in its heart is pretty close to what I call a racing simulation.

That´s wrong. It is a driving simulator, not a racing simulator. Did you ever play a good racing simulation or see a real race? GT5 has nothing to do with racing. Just some cars on the same track.

 

[Rods_Ramone]

That´s wrong. It is a driving simulator, not a racing simulator. Did you ever play a good racing simulation or see a real race? GT5 has nothing to do with racing. Just some cars on the same track.

Agreed.Quite agreed...

 

[Griffith500]

Controller = Video Game
Wheel = Simulator

Agreed, the only way GT5 remotely qualifies as a Sim is if a wheel is used, but even then it has problems, how "Sim" is it to press triangle to reverse, if I did that in my real car all I'd do is put my hazards on!

I play GTA IV with my G25. That also means I don't have to press triangle to reverse in GT5.
Also, pretty much every racing game in a games arcade is a sim by that definition. So I don't think it really works, especially when you can play LFS with a mouse.

Every simulator marketed and sold to the general public has game elements to it. They are games.

I think people had better grow up (/ man up) and realise that the term "game" is not demeaning unless you let it be. Put people in their place, or challenge them to justify any of their banal hobbies (is there any point to any hobby?). What you'll probably find is that they're just ignorant, possibly innocently, and if you give them the chance to try it out, they may think differently. As analog mentioned, trying to justify your gaming habit by saying "oh no, it's a simulator" just makes you look more like an anorak than a child. You choose!

 

[zutz]

That´s wrong. It is a driving simulator, not a racing simulator. Did you ever play a good racing simulation or see a real race? GT5 has nothing to do with racing. Just some cars on the same track.

I agree it lacks some features of the common racing sims (yes I played most of them) but sure it can and is being used for racing.

 

[GTP_ken_b]

"Video games...we don't play no stink'in video games!!"

Obviously we do! Two negatives make a positive (don't/no).

I believe what you meant was "Video games...we don't play no stink'in video games!!"

And if you didn't notice, GT is played on a video games console. Notice the word game in there?

Good morning...well for me any way...thank you for the laugh, and now I bestow to you sir, the wonderful world of Cheech & Chong. You can google and enjoy! And make sure to relax! Also, Mel Brooks alla Blazing Saddles. Your welcome!

Any way, thanks to all for the replying! Yeah, I know its a video game. However, as a hobbiest I personally refer to GT5 as a sim moreso. I do believe that there are some benefits gained by playing, from a drivers perspective, with the right set up. I use a G27 and a Playseat, which is a proper set up imho. And for the most part, playing GT5 surely saves me some money by satisfying the itch of wanting to track my car ('05 STI). Last time I tracked my car it led to new breaks and tires!

Thanks again. Peace.

 

[GTP_ken_b]

I get the joke in the title

Right on man! I was hoping that some one on this globe would pick up on that lil nugget. Classic!

 

[Big Ron]

I agree it lacks some features of the common racing sims (yes I played most of them) but sure it can and is being used for racing.

In conclusion, it has just two of the features. It gives you a start point and a finish. Everything between is missing.

 

[robbo6]

I play GTA IV with my G25. That also means I don't have to press triangle to reverse in GT5.

I'm missing something, why don't you have to press triangle to reverse in GT5? I have a G25 and I have to press triangle (or the assigned equivalent to reverse). Unless you play H shift, which is fair enough but not accurate if you drive a car with a sequential semi auto box (like the race cars and most modern supercars).

And were you implying that I thought that just using a wheel as a controller made a game "sim", because that is a really daft thing to think.

 

[Griffith500]

Controller = Video Game
Wheel = Simulator

Agreed, the only way GT5 remotely qualifies as a Sim is if a wheel is used, but even then it has problems, how "Sim" is it to press triangle to reverse, if I did that in my real car all I'd do is put my hazards on!

I'm missing something, why don't you have to press triangle to reverse in GT5? I have a G25 and I have to press triangle (or the assigned equivalent to reverse). Unless you play H shift, which is fair enough but not accurate if you drive a car with a sequential semi auto box (like the race cars and most modern supercars).

And were you implying that I thought that just using a wheel as a controller made a game "sim", because that is a really daft thing to think.

You agreed with the person who did explicitly state that relationship, and then appeared to reinforce it yourself. That's why I quoted both posts originally, and again now. The peripheral used does not define the apparent genre of a game; although there is probably a range of peripherals that are better suited to a certain kind of game, but that's not the same thing, especially given the directionality of the assertion is inverted, and the nature of "better suited" is somewhat subjective. Look at Alex Zanardi.

And, no, I don't use the sequential controls. I rarely drive a car that "requires" them in GT5; although the game never forces a particular selection mode, it does disable the clutch on some cars.
I remember racing online in the Castrol Supra, with ABS off and in H-Shifter mode. That was a lot of fun, I recommend it. 👍

 

[VBR]

I use GT5 as a simulator, namely: just for racing online, anything else I have to do in the 'game' side of things, is mostly just an inconvenient pain in the backside for me!


👍

And if you didn't notice, GT is played on a video games console. Notice the word game in there?

We browse the internet on a games console too, does that means that's now a game too! Not to mention the VidZone, the BBC iPlayer, LoveFilm etc.


👎

 

[Lucas]

Gran Turismo 5 is a video game... it may be a simulator, but it still is a video game.

As far as the Gran Turismo-Real Life Experience thing goes...
I got my driver's license one year ago, at seventeen. Driving in GT4 only taught me two things:
- Not to push the throttle, nor the brakes, too hard. This is something my driving instructor told me the first day.
- Be kind with the steering. The instructor told me this as well. (My father told me the following, something he said Fangio used to say: Hold the steering wheel firmly, but softly.)

So, there isn't much I learned from GT myself. Perhaps in a race track things would be different, and that is something I won't venture myself in, since I have never been to a race track. But at least on the street, I know I don't feel nearly as comfortable as I feel on a GT5 race, which says a lot.

One of the most important skills to have a car, in my opinion, is one that no GT has ever taught me: parallel parking. And that's why I don't drive, yet still have a driver's license.

 

[iamsupernasty]

One of the most important skills to have a car, in my opinion, is one that no GT has ever taught me: parallel parking. And that's why I don't drive, yet still have a driver's license.

Set up some cones, and practice, practice, practice.

There is nothing more embarrassing than being on a date, and being completely unable to park your car in front of the restaurant. Ask me how I know....

I feel like I can paralleled park a bus in NYC now....

 

[OK8]

gt5 is the best console simulator. Having played LFS for a number of years (which I think is the most realistic sim out there, haven't tried iRacing or netkar so I might be wrong) and with certain settings (tyres) gt5 isn't far off.

Also the tracks are really accurate so in a way it's a simulator in that aspect.

I often refer to it as a game still though .

One of the most important skills to have a car, in my opinion, is one that no GT has ever taught me: parallel parking. And that's why I don't drive, yet still have a driver's license.

I got a job driving a van downtown and especially during winter there is hardly any space to drive on the streets let alone park, so I learned it out of necessity. Nothing more motivating than having three cars with angry people in them waiting behind you when you're trying to get that van parked neatly when the space you're aiming for is full of snow and it's so slippery you doubt you can get out of the space once you're in .

Btw I'm a big fan of River Plate (and Argentina in general. Love yerba mate), sad to see them drop to Nacional B.

 

[Marry_Me_GT]

It is a video game which simulates vehicles.

 

[Wedge598]

For me, it's a simulator because it legitimately improves your skills at the sport/activity. Would playing Call of Duty make you a better soldier? Probably not. Would playing Madden make you a better football player? Probably not. Would playing Guitar Hero make you a better guitarist? Probably not.

But GT5 on the other hand, if you have the right equipment, actually can make you a better racer or driver. I cannot think of many other games that you can say that about, if any. That's what makes it a 'simulator'.

This a valid point and even a fact for a simulator like iRacing. GT5 does an admirable job of infusing some simulation elements like decent FFB and so-so car physics. But it's still a far cry from a full on Simulation. In many respects it's just a video game but in others it blurs the line a bit. It's the best simulation of racing cars you can get on a console at the moment (assuming you use a decent FFB wheel) but computer based simulators like iRacing and even Race07 or GTR2 offer much more refined FFB and car physics.

GT5 needs to straddle the line too much to apease the gamers that just want to race with a controller. In doing so they can't really fully develop the simulation otherwise they would alienate too much of the consumer market.

Still, I feel the topic creators pain as I "play" this game with a Fanatec wheel and clubsport pedals which I have connected to a cockpit seat arrangement I built. So I like to think that I'm actually simulating the experience every time I sit down to race.

 

[RacerPaul]

It is a video game which simulates vehicles.

Pretty much my way of thinking. I'd say that for a driving game to be truly called a simulator, you'd have to be
sat in a pod that moved about

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a gaming snob or elitist. I'll play anything, from Grid on PS3 to GT Legends on PC
and enjoy them all in one way or another

 

[jack21843]

I always thought it was only in video games where you could go 350 mph, run into a wall, and not die?

 

[GTShadowKing]

A Simulator is a category of video games, like FPS or RPG. Game over.
@Jack - Good point bro

 

[zutz]

I always thought it was only in video games where you could go 350 mph, run into a wall, and not die?

Well in simulators you will die for sure. oh wait...

 

[robbo6]

You agreed with the person who did explicitly state that relationship, and then appeared to reinforce it yourself. That's why I quoted both posts originally, and again now. The peripheral used does not define the apparent genre of a game; although there is probably a range of peripherals that are better suited to a certain kind of game, but that's not the same thing, especially given the directionality of the assertion is inverted, and the nature of "better suited" is somewhat subjective. Look at Alex Zanardi.

And, no, I don't use the sequential controls. I rarely drive a car that "requires" them in GT5; although the game never forces a particular selection mode, it does disable the clutch on some cars.
I remember racing online in the Castrol Supra, with ABS off and in H-Shifter mode. That was a lot of fun, I recommend it. 👍

I was agreeing that for GT5 to be regarded as a simulator it has to have good wheel support (which it does). Playing a simulator with a joypad utterly defeats the point of it. That is what I was getting at. I don't think that the post I quoted says what you think either. It's blatantly obvious that playing an arcade game with a wheel doesn't make it "sim". You're clearly arguing about semantics.

That's where gt5 irritates me, it supports a selected reverse gear with the H shift, but not in sequential mode. It's daft and an area where it loses "sim" marks in my book (along with the awful brake balance adjuster).

 

[Big Ron]

A Simulator is a category of video games, like FPS or RPG. Game over.

Not quite correct.

The category of the genre "racing games" is of course simulation.

But apart from the racing game genre, there are real simulators with much more physical calculations than most games have and which are specifically designed for clients and in most situations integrated in full working FFB-racing seats or cockpits.

 

[Ross]

I agree with the OP, it is a simulator. The experience and the sounds are so realistic and you can't compare it to any of the current racing games around. This is why it is a simulator.

 

[Griffith500]

I was agreeing that for GT5 to be regarded as a simulator it has to have good wheel support (which it does). Playing a simulator with a joypad utterly defeats the point of it. That is what I was getting at. I don't think that the post I quoted says what you think either. It's blatantly obvious that playing an arcade game with a wheel doesn't make it "sim". You're clearly arguing about semantics.

That's where gt5 irritates me, it supports a selected reverse gear with the H shift, but not in sequential mode. It's daft and an area where it loses "sim" marks in my book (along with the awful brake balance adjuster).

But playing a "sim" with a mouse doesn't make it any less of a sim either. It's just harder (for me). The peripheral means nothing to the genre. The "point", surely, is down to the player. There was one person who wanted GT5 just to spectate. Surely that defeats the "point" of the sim? Well, not for this particular individual.
Not using a wheel may not be the "point" for you, but it doesn't change the underlying game, only the way the player interacts with it; itself depending on the particular player. Some people probably cannot physically use a wheel and / or pedals, for example.

You probably should have just said that wheel support is important for a sim, for you. I agree wholeheartedly. Except you said the only way GT5 is a sim is if a wheel is used. I think that goes beyond semantics, but it's not important either way.



Basically, and this goes for the whole thread, I just don't think people should be belittling the way other people choose to experience the game when they're probably well aware of the limitations in the way they're interacting with it. Likewise this whole "it's not a game" idea - it just smacks of elitism.
I will admit there are contentious issues regarding precisely how deserving GT5 is of the "sim" moniker, but there are threads for that already.

 

[zr1chris]

I agree with the OP, it is a simulator. The experience and the sounds are so realistic and you can't compare it to any of the current racing games around. This is why it is a simulator.

Sounds are realistic??? I agree its a simulator but you cant be serious about the sounds being realistic. The engine startup when you get in the cars is the only part that is realistic.