Was I in the right or the wrong...

[Oune56]

From your opinion is that a great defensive lap against a another driver or I was in the wrong? I’m the one in the WRX in 4th place.

 

[TeWheke]

1:08 he's far enough past you that you should've conceded the corner.

1:55 same applies but in your favour.

 

[PorscheHD]

Well first time he had the place second time you both ***** up because you cut the corner. And he also second time. One of you just had to brake so you can both get clean true the corner and the one is the best with out accelarating had won!

 

[Lion-Face]

I think you were in the right in both. The first incident at the hairpin, the porsche took a normal line, which you can't if someone is up the inside and you are making a pass around the outside. It was minor but the porsche didn't leave room so contact happened. 2nd time the porsche should have conceded the corner, there is only 1 line through the chicane and you had the upper hand.

 

[Cfft555]

IMO
At 1.05 - he had right of way and position and you should have dropped in behind, but I don't see you at fault for the contact, you kept a tight line and didn't try to push him out.
At 1.50 - You had inside lane for the first part of the corner and were far enough up to hold the line. It appears to me that he didn't know you were there as he took a very sharp apex for someone that had a car on the inside. He needed to take a slightly wider line and hold inside for the second corner and final corner. His turn in was always going to make some contact, whether this is what forced you to cut the apex only you can know, but I don't see you at fault for either contacts

IMO Neither were at fault overall as both were providing room and trying to avoid contact where possible, this is the sort of racing that im normally pretty happy to engage in.

 

[baldgye]

At the hairpin you should have conceded and you cut the final chicane. If I was the Porsche I’d not be all that pleased

 

[rono_thomas]

Hairpin, he had the overtake done but the contact is the other cars fault, cant crowd another car off the track:

NFA.

Chicane.

Did the game give you a time penalty for the corner cut? If not then its fair game, if it did then your at fault,

If the game allows that amount of kerb to be taken then there’s no issue he caused the contact, inversely if you recieved a time penalty then your overtake was illegal in the manner you completed it.

Would Verstappen have given his podium position to Kimi if the stewards hadn’t judged him outside of track limits?

 

[zzz_pt]

Nothing wrong on your part IMO.

The situation at 1:08, the Porsche does change line under braking so if there's anyone to blame it's the Porsche.

 

[daan]

He had the hairpin. He didn't need to give you room as you didn't have a significant portion of your car alongside.

 

[rono_thomas]

He didn't need to give you room

True but where do you expect the op to go off track?

 

[baldgye]

True but where do you expect the op to go off track?

The OP had no right to be there in the first place.
From how it seemed, the Porsche broke later and the OP eased off the brake to try and edge alongside but was too far back.

Same was true at the chicane. The Porsche broke later but then up the inside dives the OP far too late.

At least that’s how it seems

 

[zzz_pt]

He had the hairpin. He didn't need to give you room as you didn't have a significant portion of your car alongside.

The Porsche is changing line under braking as if there was no one else on track. He chose to go for the outside line, should have committed to that line. Also, he was carrying to much speed to make that corner.

 

[rono_thomas]

The OP had no right to be there in the first place.

The OP had every right to be there.

The pass was done in the breaking, neither are allowed to change line.

 

[daan]

True but where do you expect the op to go off track?

He can go backwards, and it looked like he was.

The Porsche is changing line under braking as if there was no one else on track. He chose to go for the outside line, should have committed to that line. Also, he was carrying to much speed to make that corner.

It looks like the WRX brakes early, then it looks like he comes off the brakes to try to protect his position, but he did that too late.

The Porsche doesn't change his line under braking. All he did was turn in, as he thought he was ahead, and it looked like he was.

 

[baldgye]

The OP had every right to be there.

View attachment 698733

The pass was done in the breaking, neither are allowed to change line.

@daan just replied to this point far more elegantly than I could have

 

[rono_thomas]

He can go backwards, and it looked like he was.


It looks like the WRX brakes early, then it looks like he comes off the brakes to try to protect his position, but he did that too late.

The Porsche doesn't change his line under braking. All he did was turn in, as he thought he was ahead, and it looked like he was.

Too many assumptions, either could be legally modulating their brake inputs, until op provides footage of brake inputs there is no way of knowing.

As long as op doesn’t overcook the corner he can change how much he is braking as often as he likes.

 

[baldgye]

Too many assumptions, either could be legally modulating their brake inputs, until op provides footage of brake inputs there is no way of knowing.

As long as op doesn’t overcook the corner he can change how much he is braking as often as he likes.

To achieve what?

The OP put his car into a dangerous situation, the only eventuality is contact. That isn't an overtaking maneuver, it's just hitting someone.

 

[zzz_pt]

It looks like the WRX brakes early, then it looks like he comes off the brakes to try to protect his position, but he did that too late.

The Porsche doesn't change his line under braking. All he did was turn in, as he thought he was ahead, and it looked like he was.

We don't know about the first assumption but we can see the Porsche's brake lights and line. He's carrying too much speed and goes from the outside to the inside while braking. He would never be able to hold the inside line at the speed he was going, obviously.

To achieve what?

The OP put his car into a dangerous situation, the only eventuality is contact. That isn't an overtaking maneuver, it's just hitting someone.

The Porsche is the one making the move. He is the one who has to make sure to complete the overtake safely. The OP can defend and is committed to his line.

 

[GTWelsh]

To achieve what?

The OP put his car into a dangerous situation, the only eventuality is contact. That isn't an overtaking maneuver, it's just hitting someone.

Edit: Forgot the Porsche came from behind to overtake, given that I think the Porsche shouldn't of impeded the WRX line at all, stayed out the way and took the inside on the next left.

The second was a little reckless, but if you didn't get a penalty (assuming they were on) then, pff, I wouldn't of had the stones to do it but no contact, no harm no foul, good job! lol.

This is all easy to talk about and critique with hindsight, at the time it's very difficult sometimes to make these judgement calls, didn't look like a dirty race, just maybe a little inexperienced in those "hard but fair" situations which, lets be honest, don't happen often.

 

[baldgye]

The Porsche is the one making the move. He is the one who has to make sure to complete the overtake safely. The OP can defend and is committed to his line.

He made the move and because the OP broke a lot earlier and then wasn't able to get along side its be fair to assume the move had been made.
The OP then decided to stick his nose in, the only result of which would have been either contact, or the Porsche having to then swerve to avoid contact.

 

[GTWelsh]

He made the move and because the OP broke a lot earlier and then wasn't able to get along side its be fair to assume the move had been made.
The OP then decided to stick his nose in, the only result of which would have been either contact, or the Porsche having to then swerve to avoid contact.

The Porsche was never 100% past the WRX so I think it was fair for the WRX to stick to the line and not yield, it's the Porsches job to not run the inside car off the road

If the WRX was the one making the inside move form behind, it's then the WRX that should of yielded.

Thats how I see it anyway. The overtaking car almost always yields. This gets dodgy when you overtake on the outside, are actually in-front and then get squeezed right off the track. In that scenario I'd say that's dangerous and the car being overtaken is at fault.

 

[baldgye]

The Porsche was never 100% past the WRX so I think it was fair for the WRX to stick to the line and not yield, it's the Porsches job to not run the inside car off the road

If the WRX was the one making the inside move form behind, it's then the WRX that should of yielded.

Like I said, I don't think it was fair for the OP to have stuck his nose in where it doesn't belong. That space on the inside wasn't an over-taking move and it was a gap that was only ever going to close.

He braked early so his corner exit would have been much better and he would have been able to fight on the exit, instead he chose to cause a collision.


At least that's how I see it

 

[rono_thomas]

He made the move and because the OP broke a lot earlier and then wasn't able to get along side its be fair to assume the move had been made.
The OP then decided to stick his nose in, the only result of which would have been either contact, or the Porsche having to then swerve to avoid contact.

He is always alongside.

 

[baldgye]

He is always alongside.

View attachment 698740 View attachment 698741 View attachment 698742 View attachment 698743

Look at the bottom picture and the position and angle of the cars.
The inside line is closing as they approach the apex (the angle of the Porsche is constant in the bottom two images). There is no space on the inside, the OP clearly let of the brake pedal to be in that position (which is fine), but there is no room to complete the move.

All sticking your nose in will achieve is contact.


Edit: the more I look at the footage and the pictures, the more it looks like the OP concedes the corner

 

[rono_thomas]

complete the move.

The op is not attempting any move he is driving defensively and as such does nothing wrong and as such its the porshe that needs to complete his move cleanly and does not.

 

[zzz_pt]

Look at the bottom picture and the position and angle of the cars.
The inside line is closing as they approach the apex (the angle of the Porsche is constant in the bottom two images). There is no space on the inside, the OP clearly let of the brake pedal to be in that position (which is fine), but there is no room to complete the move.

All sticking your nose in will achieve is contact.

Exactly. The Porsche is changing lines instead of committing to his outside line. Of course he knows, as anyone familiar with that corner, that the outside line is the worst and it's really hard to overtake there so he tries to change to the WRX's line even though he shouldn't and despite the fact that he's carrying too much speed to make that corner.

 

[baldgye]

The op is not attempting any move he is driving defensively and as such does nothing wrong and as such its the porshe that needs to complete his move cleanly and does not.

I don't agree at all, but I feel at this point I'd just be repeating myself, which wouldn't add anything to the debate

Exactly. The Porsche is changing lines instead of committing to his outside line. Of course he knows, as anyone familiar with that corner, that the outside line is the worst and it's really hard to overtake there so he tries to change to the WRX's line even though he shouldn't and despite the fact that he's carrying too much speed to make that corner.

I don't think the Porsche changed lines at all, he turns in and sticks to that line. The OP hasn't turned in he's just down the middle with nowhere to go.
If he's carrying too much speed he'll run wide and the OP never had to be there... so I don't see that as a meaningful point to make.


I try to see the racing as if we are all in F1 cars, contact like that would give the Porsche a puncture, and probably wipe him out, while the OP would have his front wing ripped off.... And for what?

 

[rono_thomas]

Porsche changed lines at all, he turns in and sticks to that line.

Are you watching the same video?

He turns in on an outter line and then ends up next to the inside apex kerb, from outside to inside not a line change??

 

[baldgye]

Are you watching the same video?

He turns in on an outter line and then ends up next to the inside apex kerb, from outside to inside not a line change??

Don't think there is much reason to be rude. We can share different opinions.

While the Porsche turns from the outside to the inside, he does so in a constant move and it looks for the most part as if the OP has conceded the corner.
But like I said, we seem to have quite different views

 

[rono_thomas]

Don't think there is much reason to be rude.

Where was I rude? I was asking an honest question.

While the Porsche turns from the outside to the inside

And there we have it, it makes no odds if he did it constantly the porshe changed lines, and that meant they touched. The OP does not have to brake to avoid the Porshe, the porshe either gets in front without contact or leaves enough room to avoid contact. The Porshe driver did neither, The OP is not in the wrong.