Wet/Dry Line Working in GT6

[andy0a]

Why does the rain instantly bead off of my windshield? Its like I plastic wrapped my car.

 

[sporkface69]

The reason you can't hold the speed on the inside is the rubber. Rubber doesn't grip wet rubber. Rubber grips dry rubber.


Has anyone ever tried to hold a wet bar of soap? Slippery? Then a dry bar of soap? Sticky?

Same effect. Running on a race track in the dry, you'll fall before you slide - the rubber on the track even offers grip for running shoes. But, when it's wet, it's very slippery to walk on, too. Wet rubber offers surprisingly little grip.


The optimal angle around a corner includes an apex no matter what. However, the ideal apex will change as the grip levels change. On a wet track, the apex is still there, but the line is different, meaning that the apex (geometric center of corner) is also different.


It's not about the line itself. I can carry more speed via the apex on a dry track because it involves taking less time to travel more distance. Velocity is d/t (distance divided by time.) Traveling more distance in less time will always make you the race winner. The inside of the corner is less distance, the outside is more speed. Mixing the two together on a dry circuit normally leads to winning the race...


But on a wet circuit, the speed on the outside (more grip) far outweighs the advantage in distance traveled.

I apologize, it appears that I'm wrong. Here's a great article explaining racing in the rain:
http://www.modified.com/tech/modp-1006-racing-in-the-rain/viewall.html

"One of the first things you learn when racing in the rain is that the dry line is likely not the fastest/grippiest line in the wet. That's because the dry line tends to have a lot of rubber laid down on it, and this rubber layer can be slick when wet. The dry line can also be polished smooth over time, whereas the less used part of the pavement tends to be more abrasive and porous, making for better grip in the wet. It's also important to be aware of the fact that paint and concrete tend to have a lot less grip when wet (because these surfaces are less porous), so it's best to avoid concrete patches or painted lines or curbs. "

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Do you even read my posts? Or do you just toss out everything I say, without realizing that I was saying that exact same thing before you changed your story.

A few posts ago you said that you can carry more speed around the outside of corners in karting - false - and driving on a wet track - true - because you're taking a wide corner - partially true.


It's not geometry in the rain. It's a question of physics. Don't bother to mention the apex or anything - it's irrelevant from the slippery rubber that is on the dry line.

 

[CarreraGT]

So all in all, GT6 has done a good job in terms of realism with wet and dry track simulations. Too bad they made the rain look like somebody is air drying the pacific ocean on your windshield.

Yep, the rain still looks ridiculous. I'm amazed that they didn't improve it from GT5, especially when so many other games have got it right

 

[CarreraGT]

@sporkface69 No. The reason cars go off-line on the straights is indeed to cool wet tires on a dry track... By going through the puddles at the side of a track that are not dry...



On a fully wet track, it's faster to go off-line (wet line) in corners. On a dry track, the dry line is fastest.

Apply logic.

Drivers will still tend to stick to the racing line in the wet. Occasionally you will see F1 drivers explore different lines but you still need to position your car on the racing line to avoid being overtaken when racing other cars.

It's really only once the track begins to dry that they will go searching for water off line to cool the tyres

 

[mistersafeway]

It's like people don't bother watching real racing or reading the thread.

 

[CarreraGT]

It's like people don't bother watching real racing or reading the thread.

Who/what are you referring to?

 

[mistersafeway]

First sentence of your previous post, but mostly just the whole thread. The usual racing line becomes like glass on permanent race tracks in the rain and any driver who sticks to the traditional racing line is likely to spin out. Definitely not a good idea.

 

[CarreraGT]

First sentence of your previous post, but mostly just the whole thread. The usual racing line becomes like glass on permanent race tracks in the rain and any driver who sticks to the traditional racing line is likely to spin out. Definitely not a good idea.

Interesting.

Do you watch real racing by any chance?

 

[mistersafeway]

Yes, enough to know that what I said was true. Well, unless myself and a lot of professional racers are wrong.

 

[CarreraGT]

Yes, enough to know that what I said was true. Well, unless myself and a lot of professional racers are wrong.

Looks like the racing line to me... And I don't know which professional racers you are referring to but I consider Alonso to be a pretty descent pilot.

I try and watch every round of the Formula 1, Moto GP and V8 Supercars (and as many rounds of the FIA GT3 as I can) and I've never seen drivers use dramatically different lines in the wet, particularly during the race

 

[G.T.Ace]

The racing line is still extremely wet there, so that video is no proof for anything.
He's talking about driving off-line when the racing line is drying up.
Monza is also not the best example, because you can't really leave the line and still be quick.

 

[mistersafeway]

Through the chicanes there is no choice, maybe you should watch the one directional corners where Fernando drives a car width away from the apex? 💡

 

[194GVan]

Why does the rain instantly bead off of my windshield? Its like I plastic wrapped my car.

Rain-X

 

[CarreraGT]

Through the chicanes there is no choice, maybe you should watch the one directional corners where Fernando drives a car width away from the apex? 💡

Fair point through the first right hand sweeper, although he tends to take a wide line through there in the dry too.

Generally speaking it's hard to deviate far from the racing line on any circuit save for a few faster corners where the wider line doesn't add a lot of extra distance to the corner

 

[GolimLongshanks]

Wet track: tighter line requires lower speed but covers less distance, wider line allows faster speed but increases distance covered. There is obviously a crossover point where a wider line is faster than the normal racing line and that crossover point will change with the amount of water on the track.

The governing factor is the lateral load on the car which determines when the car will lose traction. As wet conditions improve or deteriorate so the fastest line through any corner will change. How rubbered in the dry line is will also be a factor, as many people have said, due to there being less grip on a wet rubbered line.

The truly great drivers are able to judge the changing grip in their cars on a moment by moment basis and choose their lines accordingly.

 

[ICEMAN_ZIDANE]

WooW thats AWESOME , thank you PD.

BTW the first thing which pops in my mind while reading wet/dry line is Kimi : D .
Would be nice if someone could upload the race start of Kimi in China (i think it was China not sure, the first Long right hander)

 

[Connoissuer]

First thing when I hear the words: 'racing, wet and going your fastest' is Aryton Senna, the Rainmaster.

 

[carracerptp]

So I was just in a room with a few buddies (MotortrendMitch and iamsupernasty) and it started raining while messing around at Ascari. We started testing intermediate and wet tires having not run them in GT6 yet.

It reached 100% wet track so I decided to do some wet/dry line testing. I ran one lap on the dry line then one lap on the wet line. For those of you who may not be aware of the wet line, it's when you run a car length wide to find tarmac without rubber build up to find grip in the wet.

So lap 1 dry line - 1.36.xxx
Lap 1 wet line - 1.33.xxx
Lap 2 dry line - 1.35.xxx
Lap 2 wet line - 1.33.xxx

It seems running a car width wide in the wet actually provides more grip lowering the lap time, as it would in real life. You an actually feel the grip difference between the two lines after doing some more messing around going between the wet/dry lines.

Cool, I think it was like that in GT5.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

I did some testing in my ITCC 4-spec Honda Accord at Apricot Hill Raceway, 100% wet:


dry lap: 1:28-1:29
20%: 1:33.828 (dry tires, switched to intermediates after this)
60%: 1:39.xxx (switched to wets after this)
100%: 1:43-1:45 (further analysis below)



Laps 1 & 2 at 100%: 1:45, on the dry line

Laps 3 & 4 at 100%: 1:43, on the wet line


There's definitely a huge correlation between the racing line and the available grip. I had never felt such a massive difference in grip between two portions of a paved circuit before in my life - excluding racing on a wet track in real life.
Coming out of the longer, sweeping left-handers at Apricot Hill, I never had much grip on the racing line. When I tried to sharpen up the corner and straighten out the exit, my straight line speed was not affected much. However, on the dry line, my straight line speed was two gears lower... Clearly a result of the lack of cornering speed/acceleration grip.

 

[perdy450]

Good to know this is modelled! As mentioned it's a shame about the rain-on-windscreen effects!!

Just to chuck in my 2 cents on the wet racing line. I don't think it has been mentioned but I learnt this the hard way.

If the race track cambers, water naturally settles more at the bottom (ie. near the inside on a positive cambered corner) so a wider line is of course more preferable. I was teamed up with Sean Edwards (RIP fella) for a one off race and in testing he was 3 secs quicker round a very very wet Mugello. I was only in my second year pretending to be a racing driver but when I watched his onboard it was obvious what a rookie mistake I was making....Sticking to dry line and being crossed up continuously. I closed to within a second of him afterwards but it took a while to go against your instinct to drive a wider line with less steering angle and as mentioned, naturally a longer line.

Not all corners are of course positively cambered but a lot are and it made a lot of difference in future wet races elsewhere.