- 3,195
- tribolik
Now if only that would keep the game prices down 👍 But Im almost sure they will stay the same or go up and we wont even have a disk and a box with some cover art or something...
What does everyone think of the GPU in the next xbox?
- Thread starter bevo
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Now if only that would keep the game prices down 👍 But Im almost sure they will stay the same or go up and we wont even have a disk and a box with some cover art or something...
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tribolik
I think the opposite mate.
If there going with the one use disk malarky then it better be a decent piece of software.
People won't buy shovel ware rubbish because there's no value in a trade.
TBH I hardly buy games these days. Especially your single player 12 hour campaign stuff. God of war for example.
Now give me a choice of a download rental for £3 and I might have a punt on it for a week.
Sports titles I may buy. Then again I'm on FIFA 10. I don't buy annually I may think about it this year because it may be worth an upgrade.
I think less software would be out out but at a higher quality. It would have to be decent to survive a one disc usage.
With people less inclined to spend haphazardly or take a risk on a game, prices may drop.
Not to the extent of Apps type games but with creators getting one on one sales it could benifit everyone.
Time will tell.
- 563
Next gen should be native 1080P. Current gen are 720P 30fps and support for 1080P which basically does upscalling. We should see good upgrade. But Wii U is suppose to be 50 times more powerful than current console and will be released this year and if these rumor are true. 720 will be 20% more powerful than Wii U next year.
Console should last 6-10yrs. I do not mind 699 for PS4 as long as the tech is good. Probably 499 is max they will target though. Hope it backs enough punch. These rumors about Wii U and 720 are not good. Although price will be affordable.
Console should last 6-10yrs. I do not mind 699 for PS4 as long as the tech is good. Probably 499 is max they will target though. Hope it backs enough punch. These rumors about Wii U and 720 are not good. Although price will be affordable.
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bevo
I too have always been a microsoft fan. and since i bought a 360 the first week they came out i've loved it, but always felt like its not quite there yet graphically. they put too much emphasis on the gimmicks like kinnect and rock band drum kits they forget about the needs of hardcore gamers sometimes, its all about realistic graphics. i have been really hoping for a huge bump graphically because i'm getting tired of seeing low res and slow frame rates on a beautiful 3D1080p set. i just dont see how they could get their power output on that card to be worthy of a decent flatpanel tv these days. i might as well keep my 720p i have in the garage...
- 5,051
- Labounti
It will not matter how old the hardware is since it is a fixed hardware platform and all games will be designed for that hardware.
Only the most hardcore tech junkies will have that type of perception. While on the other hand, gamers will not care because they will be too busy enjoying what they have.
I love how people think a mid-range GPU in the Nextbox means that it'll only be able to perform as well as a mid-range GPU in a PC. Has nobody ever heard of optimization for consoles? If you ported Skyrim (example) straight from PC to a current-gen console today, it'd run like crap. It would likely never get above double digits in framerate. The developers have to optimize their code to suit the processors used, and to get the maximum performance possible out of them. Having an even better GPU will aid the developers by giving them more leeway, either by having to focus less on optimizing, or by optimizing the same and looking even better than they do today.
EDIT: Sorta tree'd.
EDIT: Sorta tree'd.
Seismica
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I speculate that they will try to remove the disc drive altogether.
They will have an expanded Xbox Live marketplace, like the Steam service for PC but without the sales. Games will require online activation to your Xbox Live account as a way to prevent piracy (And in doing so, remove the second hand gaming market). We could see high street retailers stocking only consoles and peripherals, and instead of games they would maybe stock activation vouchers.
The console will also feature support for cloud gaming services, hence why they didn't put high end hardware into it, as they think further down the line they won't need it.
This is only my speculation but if any of this is true, Microsoft are making a mistake with the next generation Xbox.
They will have an expanded Xbox Live marketplace, like the Steam service for PC but without the sales. Games will require online activation to your Xbox Live account as a way to prevent piracy (And in doing so, remove the second hand gaming market). We could see high street retailers stocking only consoles and peripherals, and instead of games they would maybe stock activation vouchers.
The console will also feature support for cloud gaming services, hence why they didn't put high end hardware into it, as they think further down the line they won't need it.
This is only my speculation but if any of this is true, Microsoft are making a mistake with the next generation Xbox.
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- spagetti69
I thought it was confirmed to have Blu-ray?
Seismica
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I thought that was only a rumour?
EDIT: After re-reading the gamespot article posted earlier in the thread, the original source of the blu-ray speculation is Kotaku. They are usually reliable to some extent.
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Seismica
Yes you are right. Actually it's all speculation anyhow.
I hope they don't remove the drive. I would appreciate some backwards compatibility.
Seismica
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That is a fair point actually, they may want to keep some backwards compatability, so that kind of rules out my theory that there will be no drive.
I still think they will try and phase it out over time though, as network infrastructure improves more and more emphasis will be placed on downloads and cloud gaming rather than the traditional 'insert disc and play' method console gamers have become used to. I personally hope they never get rid of the disc drive, but they will phase it out eventually.
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- DG Silva
If they are intending to have the console at the hub of an entertainment system, then how would you play DVD/BRD films? I think at the moment we are posturing on a worst case scenario, partly because that is what we are used to from MS, but also because we are all being a little bit pessimistic.
CAMAROBOY69
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- CAMAROBOY69
I really have no interrest in a new system at all. I am so backlogged that I have games from 2007,2008,2009,2010, and 2011 on the 360 that I have not even had the time to rent or buy yet. Between the PS3, PC, and 360, I seriously have NO interrest in a new system at all. Especially since the 360 is such an unreliable system. I wouldnt even consider the next system unless it was out for at least a year just to see how reliable it was. I didnt even buy the 360 until almost a year after it came out. And even a year later it was still a very unreliable system. Shoot even to this day the 360 is not very reliable.
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Tesla
Nobody is dissagreeing with that,the point is that developers optimise their coding to what they have to lenghten the lifespan of each console. So a new console should at least START with a decent card so by the end of its lifespan its still fairly close in performance to a mid range pc
bevo
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- bevo francis
I'm assuming you mean if the xbox leaves out the blu ray player. If that's the case then they would probably assume since you are now downloading all your games, you will download or stream all of your movies to, or through the xbox. If you already own the movie you will use whatever you were using before to watch it, and any new movies you want, you will buy through the xbox. It would be more of a casual viewing experience and if you want to collect the really good movies on blue ray, then you would need a dedicated player for them. Maybe they will make it so somehow you can register your copies of movies you already own, and then you will be able to download them for free from the xbox.
- 5,051
- Labounti
I don't think lengthening the life span is an isolated conscern for a developer, designing a game that makes them a lot of money so they can afford a sequel or more great games is the bigger picture. Its the conumer that determines the life span of a console, if no one is buying it or games it will meet its end. Simply optimizing a game has no effect on lifespan. They have to make games that sell.
It doesn't have to compete with any PC ever. Not all PC's are them same or cost the same, that's the problem. The purpose of consoles is to have a platform to run games optimized for it and to profit from all software sold. At the same time reducing production cost and making them more energy efficient over time without sacrificing power. MS, Sony, Nin do not wont to spend more than they need to. Well maybe except Sony but they may have learned their lesson(s)
bevo
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I disagree with the not having to compete with a PC ever. Right now they don't have to compete with a PC, but if they start making junk super outdated consoles, and people see videos of these mind blowing PC games then they will have to compete with PCs. In the past consoles games have been comparable to PC games. If the xbox though or PS3 just didn't make another console, and kept making games for the current ones, then yes people would move to updated PC games.
That's kind of what it looks like might happen with the new xbox. 6 times more powerful over an 8 year lifespan is nothing. It is very conceivable, that the next xbox may look very, very outdated in 5 years compared to low to midrange PC games, then hardcore gamers will start to make the switch. If microsoft tries to cater to multimedia and angry bird gamers, then it will have to either abandon the hardcore crowd completely or compete with PC games.
On a small front they do compete with them now. If a game is on the PC, xbox, and PS3 I will probably get it on PC, unless I plan on playing with my console friends then I will get it for both. I'm part of a small group that does this, but I see how much better they look on PC and would prefer that. In all honesty though most don't look alot better then the console version(except BF3) then the PC. Not enough to warrant buying a PC for games. If console do though stop trying to be as cutting edge as they can at release, then they will certainly start to see more and more people leave for the PC games.
I remember when games first got big, and consoles did compete with PC games, because PC games were simply much better. It took nintendo, and a super aggressive add campaign to get PC gamers onto a console. It could happen again if the consoles let their guards down and take a half ass approach to making new consoles. Look what happen to atari when they started letting junk get onto their system. PC games were still going good though and people were playing them.
Seismica
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The problem is, these 'mind blowing' videos of PC games are compressed files on youtube usually played at 360p.
The difference isn't staggeringly great between a well optimised console game and your average PC title; at 720p or even upscaled 1080p. Where you really see a difference is when you up the resolution to 2560x1440 (1440p) or higher (I'm assuming you can go higher). Most PCs these days don't have a chance of running the latest games at that resolution, on high settings at solid 60fps, never mind consoles. In 3-4 years 1440p will be commonplace and the standard for PC gaming (Much like native 1080p is the standard now, which the consoles can't do and a lot of PCs, including those with a single 6670, can't at a decent framerate). Then the consoles will really be behind.
bevo
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- bevo francis
There is a very noticeable difference now between pc games at 1080 and console games at whatever the game is running. BF3 is a great example of how much current consoles are outdated compared to PC games. Even at the lowest settings and 1080p it looks alot better on PC, then the console version running on the same monitor. It also doesn't take a power horse PC to run battlefield at 1080p with it's lowest settings. My friend has a computer he built 5 years ago, and he can run it with FPS over 30 with the lowest setting in game. With that in mind, it shows that a 5 year old PC can still look tons better running the same game a console is trying to run.
I would just love to see a console come out, and actually try and future proof itself for gaming for awhile again. I just want a pure hardcore game console. No fancy gimmicks or extra features built in, just raw gaming power that will still be great down the road, and it doesn't seem like microsoft going with a 6670 70$ street priced GPU has that in mind at all. They are going to keep pushing kinect, (which no one I know uses for more then a party tool) movies, and DLC. I just want to play games. My cable service and netflix already offers all the TV and movies the xbox does, and I have the internet for music, so why would I want microsoft to try and make mediocre games, so they can afford to make a cheap console that pushes other media at me.
They are going to try and corner the market on movies and music and "hardcore" gamers will pay the price.
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- alexpkas
I agree on all you said bevo.
I do also want the most high-tech console they can possibly build.
But there are three (or two) major problems.
1.The size of the parts like the GPU, do you know how big a GTX580 is`?
Try to fit that into a console and try to...
2...and this is the second problem:...cool it, with what? The fan must be huge, and loud, and expensive, and energy consuming.
3.The price. Well, that's self explenatory I guess. Let us assume the PS4 would launch end of 2014 and by then the newest card will be the "GTX780", it alone will cost at least 500 dollars, AT LEAST, now try to fit it in the console, cool it and sell the console at a price of even under 600. That is simply impossible as far as I know.
I do also want the most high-tech console they can possibly build.
But there are three (or two) major problems.
1.The size of the parts like the GPU, do you know how big a GTX580 is`?
Try to fit that into a console and try to...
2...and this is the second problem:...cool it, with what? The fan must be huge, and loud, and expensive, and energy consuming.
3.The price. Well, that's self explenatory I guess. Let us assume the PS4 would launch end of 2014 and by then the newest card will be the "GTX780", it alone will cost at least 500 dollars, AT LEAST, now try to fit it in the console, cool it and sell the console at a price of even under 600. That is simply impossible as far as I know.
bevo
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I have a GTX 570s in sli so I know how big the GPU would be. You don't need the latest and greatest card, but the 6670 will be almost 3 years old and wasn't the latest and greatest when it was made. Why wouldn't you use a 6970 or something. They will buy 50 million of them, it's not going to cost them even half of what we pay for them, and in 3 years one of those will be around 100$ for us.
As far as the console size and cooling. I've seen some pretty tiny PCs made on overclocking forums with alot better hardware in them then a 6670. It really doesn't matter anyway, look how big the PS3 was at launch. You could easily fit a 6970 , or GTX 570 in the case of it along with everything else you need. As for cooling, they could just use a few small fans instead of just one big one, or even liquid cool everything. Liquid cooling is pretty cheap now, and very reliable. I've seen one PC a guy built that didn't look much bigger then a gamecube, and he used either a 570 or 580 in it. If some joe can do it, microsoft should be able to pull it off.
If they want to cut corners then cut corners, but not at the expense of the games. People will buy consoles that are big anyway, size won't stop us from gaming if the games look amazing. I'm not saying they need to put in a 500$ GPU, but a 70$ gpu now is kind of ridiculous for a gaming console. When they role out the nextbox, a 6670 will probably have a 30$ street price,a nd will be costing them probably 10 buck a piece. If that's the type of hardware they are going to use, then the system should be around 100$ at launch.
It just seems like an apple move to me. Lets put yesterdays decent hardware in a system and claim it's revolutionary and charge a fortune for it.
- 5,051
- Labounti
Why hasn't it happened yet with that logic. And why is the Wii the number 1 selling console if PCs have better graphics? They are separate markets. I doubt console casual gamers and hardcore gamers who love their gamerscore and trophies and online friends and money invested in the system would just give that all up just to have pretty graphics with an expensive pc. Chances are they already own a PC.
The PC market is so vastly different than consoles its impossible to compare fairly. And consoles only compete with each other. Console wars do not include PC's for too many reasons. Clearly you are a PC gamer and your only concern is how weak this GPU is compared to modern PCs yet its more than likely far superior to whats in the 360. That's all that matters. To say the system should be $100 shows just how in tune you are with console gaming history.
bevo
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It hasn't happened yet because they keep making updated consoles. So you think that if no one made a new console for 20 years people would not start playing PC games more? The Wii is the #1 selling console because it was different, not because anything about it was good.
As far as me being a PC gamer, last June is the first time I had played a PC game in over 10 years, and I was very impressed with what PC gaming has to offer. I have owned almost every game console ever made since pong, and the commodore 64, except for the 3do, jaguar, and turbo graph 16. All 3 of those consoles though were owned by friends and we bought them so we all had different consoles and could play all the games. I currently have a 360, wii and ps3 that are played, and at least 4 or 5 old consoles laying around. I still think the turbo graph was the best console ever, just because you could play the same games on the console and handheld.
The reason I say the new xbox should be around 100$ is because they will be putting a GPU in it that will have what will probably at release time be a 30$ or less street price card, and will cost them something like 5$ to get. If the rest of the components in it are of the same quality as the GPU, then it will be a very cheap console as far as hardware is to produce. Why should we pay 300$ or more for something that has 100$ of hardware in it?
I know the PC market is vastly different then consoles and they are not really comparable, but that's because console games have generally been comparable to PC games. If it gets to the point where PC games are far beyond what consoles can do, then I think people will want to play the best games. I went to playing some PC games because of how much better everyone said the racing games are on PC, and was surprised at how good the PC games from 2006 were.
All i know is that if the new nextbox, or ps4 doesn't come close to what PC games offer at their release. then why would I waste my money on them? I expect that after 8 years, the xbox should improve by leaps and bounds. Not 6x better more like 60x better. As fast as tech evolves now they should make it as good as they can in a 300-400$ price range, and that's not going to happen with a 30$ gpu.
I really don't see how your not upset with this also. If they used dated cheap hardware and people still buy millions of them, then this will become the way of consoles. We will no longer see major improvements from console to console and games will become more and more casual, and less and less breathtaking. It's already headed that way now, but the consoles are what's keeping most who play great games going. I don't want to play angry birds on my TV, I want to play HD games that look amazing.
- 28,461
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- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
I find most of this entire thread hilarious. Especially arguing over what it isn't even a confirmed bit of hardware.
Also, Alex, you're confusing the size of the video card with the actual GPU die. A 580 could easily fit on the 360's or PS3's motherboard. Granted, it wouldn't work... but it could fit.
Also, Alex, you're confusing the size of the video card with the actual GPU die. A 580 could easily fit on the 360's or PS3's motherboard. Granted, it wouldn't work... but it could fit.
- 5,051
- Labounti
I'm just trying to be realistic. But I agree with you. Just defending the fact as to what it doesn't have to be to be good.
- 6,689
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- alexpkas
Really? Hmkay, learned something new. 👍
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Alex p.
That's what I like about this site. It's educational too.
