What exactly counts as "Dive Bombing"

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SkyArkz23

SkyArkz23

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gtracerskyer
Maybe this is just me being sleep deprived, but I'll let the clip do the initial bit of talking(this is me of course):



When this happened, my initial thought was, "Did I just get away a dive bomb!?" and for the past week now I've been passing it off as such...until maybe a few minutes ago. After looking back at the clip I noticed that the moment I engaged the brakes was slightly before my usual brake point which led me to think, "was that move just a normal pass or was it really a dive bomb?" Now I understand blatant lunges from a mile away, but in this instance would that move I made really count as dive bombing? Also in instances like this what do you think counts as dive bombing?
 
Very risky, I would say it was indeed a dive bomb. You have to remember "where you normally brake" is on a hotlap / time-trial usually all on your own. Racing amongst other people is completely different and when you're behind other cars it's important to forget about setting blistering lap times. Just focus on getting passed in a clean, safe and quick way.

For example I brake earlier than usual when behind another car. Not only that, I brake earlier than where I think they're going to brake, only I brake lightly so I can close the gap once they've started to brake by easing the pressure.

Most of the time if I brake where I usually brake, people get hit, or I have to go off track to avoid people.

Ultimately though you got through without contact. The guy infront may of given you space when he saw you appear on radar, but everyone was going pretty slow.
 
Nothing wrong with that... you do come from a long way back, but you don't make any contact and you make the apex with no issue despite coming in from a narrow angle.

Looks like everyone else just brakes way too early.
 
Not a full bomb. Maybe a dive firework? Ultimately clean and you were only a skosh off the apex, but less aware drivers ahead may have been caught out. You got away with it and I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
They did seem a bit more tentative than normal but I think that's a sign of respect in the first corner and not to be taken as a weakness.
I class a divebomb as 'an inside pass that misses the apex or hits an extremely unconventional apex, whether early or late'
 
Nothing wrong with that.

If you break too early and leave the door open then you should expect someone to come up your inside. First lap or last lap.

I think when most people say dive bomb they mean someone who comes up their inside, out brakes themselves, misses the apex and runs both of them wide. In this case you easily made the apex and there was plenty of space for two cars.

Some people may misinterpret that as a dive bomb because the guy you overtook then couldn’t come across and take the apex as normal. But it’s his fault for leaving the door open. Instead he should just use his mirrors, hold a wider line and try and carry more speed on the exit.

I expect quite a few people in that situation wouldn’t look in their mirrors, instead they would just turn in like normal, make contact and then say they were dive bombed!
 
To me a dive bomb is when, after coming from a mile back you then you miss the corner apex by quite a bit, force other cars to take unnatural evasive action or make contact with them, or even all of the above for the worst examples.

You didn't really do any of those, so whilst a risky move, your move is fine.
 
I agree with what's been said above, the only thing I would say is that it is a very risky move on the first corner of the first lap. In the real world race drivers tend to use their mirrors etc. - not so much in GT Sport. The amount of time I have had people 'close the door' on me, when I was already on their inside is unreal because they didn't see me make the pass; to the point they've sent me snotty messages after saying I dive bombed...

Essentially a move like yours is a risk, but your driving was good and your braking was good. Your main risk comes from others not anticipating it and turning in to you/ just in front of you with nowhere for you to go.

I wouldn't worry about it, personally. Whether I'd have had the balls to do that lap 1, corner 1, I don't know.
 
My only reason for calling it a dive bomb was if one of the cars in-front took the apex, the guy overtaking would of been powerless to avoid, boom, t-bone. That's how it looked to me anyway.

EDIT:
Actually watched it on repeat a few times, it was very well timed. Any later and my above statement would of been true but I think the lead car overtaken never made it to the apex while the overtaking car came past. I don't even think anyone had to react, just a well timed move. Still risky, but well done.
 
yeh that was perfect, you had control of the car the whole time. I wish I was confident enough to pull off such moves.
I tried once along time ago in a nurb GP sport race but I locked the tires, and the two cars ahead made the corner faster than in your video, the result was me eating t-bone.
I immediately gave both places back, but was still called a pig by one of my victims at the end of the race :O
 
Risky, looks to me like the AMG backed off his turn in to avoid hitting you. Lucky he was looking backwards or you probably would have punted him wide.

That said, everyone else braked way early but it's understandable on lap 1 turn 1 to be cautious.

You got away with it so we'll call it a good move ;)
 
SkyArkz23
Maybe this is just me being sleep deprived, but I'll let the clip do the initial bit of talking(this is me of course):

Also in instances like this what do you think counts as dive bombing?
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Not making contact makes this a sweet move in my book. A dive bomb to me is when I check the gap, see i'm almost .5 ahead, set up for turn, turn in and someone is there somehow with no intention of making the turn without using me as a brake. Just happened to post such pics https://www.gran-turismo.com/us/gts...llery/all/photo/1458765/3/4981549706790305792 click left for the ending
 
vvise
Risky, looks to me like the AMG backed off his turn in to avoid hitting you. Lucky he was looking backwards or you probably would have punted him wide.
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Risky? I don't see it like that. This is the point at which OP was just into 5th, and it's well before the apex. There's a gap there behind 4th that's well over two car lengths, and after the apex OP is about one length behind 4th, so OP just slots neatly in. Any extra slowing by the AMG is just from surprise, he didn't need to - and that's his problem, not the OP's!

notdivebomb.jpg
 
Outspacer
Risky? I don't see it like that. This is the point at which OP was just into 5th, and it's well before the apex. There's a gap there behind 4th that's well over two car lengths, and after the apex OP is about one length behind 4th, so OP just slots neatly in. Any extra slowing by the AMG is just from surprise, he didn't need to - and that's his problem, not the OP's!

View attachment 712204
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Take a look at the AMG line in the rear view, he's a full car width wide of the apex. at his speed i doubt he "missed" it. He couldn't turn in because a car materialized itself there from 4 car lengths back at high speed.

Someone not watching behind them would have just turned into the OP, even if they weren't in the lead at the time of the collision.

Side note: in that case according to PD, the AMG would get the SR down penalty and feel like they were dive bombed, and then they'd create a gtplanet account and make a thread complaining about it, or how SR is flawed, etc.
 
To answer the OP title litterally though. My definition is:

"Attempting to pass from too far away with no regard for the car-infront's intended line into the corner"

If I spot it happening I move out the way, getting hit costs more time than avoiding it usually, and usually the passer overshoots and crashes anyway.
 
I consider a divebomb when you go for a move that it's not really there and the only way contact is avoided is when the car being overtaken has to get out of your way for the move to be completed.

This is a classic divebomb:



Overtaking has to be done in a way that you dont compromise the car in front of you too much.
 
Great start ! Cleared them both before the apex, no contact and no running wide so the move was fine. Not all divebombs are bad imo. As long as you make it stick without overshooting and there is no contact all is fine. They are risky though and need the other driver to have some skill as well. It's not my prefered way to overtake someone and i only do it if i know i can trust them and brake later or if they are running close behind someone so they need to brake a little early and i can box them in.

Here is someone pulling one on me. This one was a bit to risky for my liking and required me to do some avoiding but he made it stick and there was no contact so it was legit.


 
I'm not sure if others would agree, but I generally consider a divebomb a move where you're not alongside before the turn in point and/or a move where you have to cut across the other persons line, i.e. you can't slow down for the apex and run wide. Both of those scenarios have the same consequence that the defending driver has to turn out of the corner to avoid contact, which is why a divebomb is considered a dirty overtake.

In your example however you were alongside (just) before the turn in point and you made the apex fine and didn't run wide so I see no issue with it. It doesn't matter how far back you are as long as you're alongside before they have to commit to the corner and you can slow down for the corner it's fine.
 
vvise
Take a look at the AMG line in the rear view, he's a full car width wide of the apex. at his speed i doubt he "missed" it. He couldn't turn in because a car materialized itself there from 4 car lengths back at high speed.

Someone not watching behind them would have just turned into the OP, even if they weren't in the lead at the time of the collision.

Side note: in that case according to PD, the AMG would get the SR down penalty and feel like they were dive bombed, and then they'd create a gtplanet account and make a thread complaining about it, or how SR is flawed, etc.
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Sure, I noticed that, but I don't agree that he had to slow/move over as much as he did. You mention 'materializing' 'at high speed', yet OP made the apex perfectly neatly - so it clearly wasn't at too much speed for the corner.

Without seeing it from the AMG's POV I can't be certain, but it looks to me like he would've seen at least the OP's nose before turning in - no need to be watching his mirror. Maybe if he had been watching mirror or radar he would've been able to plan his approach better, rather than being surprised by the move and over-reacting. It might've even been possible for him to continue whatever line he had planned, without making contact.

Now if what you're pointing out is simply that the AMG could've caused an incident in response to a perfectly fair overtake, well fair enough, there's always that risk.
 
SkyArkz23
Maybe this is just me being sleep deprived, but I'll let the clip do the initial bit of talking(this is me of course):



When this happened, my initial thought was, "Did I just get away a dive bomb!?" and for the past week now I've been passing it off as such...until maybe a few minutes ago. After looking back at the clip I noticed that the moment I engaged the brakes was slightly before my usual brake point which led me to think, "was that move just a normal pass or was it really a dive bomb?" Now I understand blatant lunges from a mile away, but in this instance would that move I made really count as dive bombing? Also in instances like this what do you think counts as dive bombing?
Click to expand...


Definitely a dive bomb in my book. Look at how far back you are when you start braking. You can't credibly assert that you are clearly aware of the intentions of those drivers ahead of you, thus threading the needle in one of the most challenging section of the track. Also, the drivers ahead have no way of anticipating a move like that from someone so far back. If you throw yourself into a pack of cars hoping to find a way through, you are acting as a wrecking ball. You got lucky in this instance, but look at how the speed you carry through the turn severely limits your car control. You have to pass in a controlled manner. Even if you utilize these lunges and make your way through, you've got to ask yourself this question, "did I respect the guys in front and did I maintain control of my car?"

On the flip side, if you had made the same move, BUT only to pass 1 or 2 drivers and able to maintain a crisp inside line through turn 1 instead of running wide because you ran out of talent on the brakes...

I applaud you for thinking about it.
 
dabz343
Definitely a dive bomb in my book. Look at how far back you are when you start braking. You can't credibly assert that you are clearly aware of the intentions of those drivers ahead of you, thus threading the needle in one of the most challenging section of the track. Also, the drivers ahead have no way of anticipating a move like that from someone so far back. If you throw yourself into a pack of cars hoping to find a way through, you are acting as a wrecking ball. You got lucky in this instance, but look at how the speed you carry through the turn severely limits your car control. You have to pass in a controlled manner. Even if you utilize these lunges and make your way through, you've got to ask yourself this question, "did I respect the guys in front and did I maintain control of my car?"

On the flip side, if you had made the same move, BUT only to pass 1 or 2 drivers and able to maintain a crisp inside line through turn 1 instead of running wide because you ran out of talent on the brakes...

I applaud you for thinking about it.
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Honestly, I had to double-check that you were talking about the same video :confused:

Dived for a clear gap - check. Maintained control - check. Bomb - nope. Wrecking ball - nope. Running wide - hardly, still a smooth line to (and around) T2.

I'm all for gentlemanly and respectful racing, but let's not take that to such an extreme that we're not really racing any more. That there was simply an opportunity taken. Never mind P5 being upset, I bet P6 was more upset, having missed the opportunity!
 
It's always risk vs reward for overtakes. You were lucky they played nice, but it otherwise helped you out in turn 2 so to me it was well done.

Ricciardo approves


 
Outspacer
Honestly, I had to double-check that you were talking about the same video :confused:

Dived for a clear gap - check. Maintained control - check. Bomb - nope. Wrecking ball - nope. Running wide - hardly, still a smooth line to (and around) T2.

I'm all for gentlemanly and respectful racing, but let's not take that to such an extreme that we're not really racing any more. That there was simply an opportunity taken. Never mind P5 being upset, I bet P6 was more upset, having missed the opportunity!
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Also left room on the outside...didnt shut them off
 
Outspacer
Honestly, I had to double-check that you were talking about the same video :confused:

Dived for a clear gap - check. Maintained control - check. Bomb - nope. Wrecking ball - nope. Running wide - hardly, still a smooth line to (and around) T2.

I'm all for gentlemanly and respectful racing, but let's not take that to such an extreme that we're not really racing any more. That there was simply an opportunity taken. Never mind P5 being upset, I bet P6 was more upset, having missed the opportunity!
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When he starts braking, it is clear that he is committed to the dive bomb and running wide end of turn 1 proves this. Just look at his entry into turn 2. More than a bit wide and definitely understeering.

What I would have preferred to see is, when he starts braking, he does so being aware that drivers ahead MAY take a sharp inside line to shut the door. Or their may be an incident to avoid. Or perhaps another opportunity for a pass. The point is, one can't credibly assert making a move so far back because there is simply too many scenarios to contend with. Thus the only sportsmanship move here is to be bit more careful under braking and give yourself (fellow drivers) some room to maneuver away from contact. Allow the corner to develop a bit more before committing to a move.

I applaud the drivers that saw this coming.
 
It's called dive bombing because it mimics dive bombing maneuvers . The bombers would wait last second to pull up . When you dive bomb you hit the breaks last second . This usually results in hitting cars in front but not always . All dive bombing is bad if there are cars in front , even if you miss .
 
KingFrog
It's called dive bombing because it mimics dive bombing maneuvers . The bombers would wait last second to pull up . When you dive bomb you hit the breaks last second . This usually results in hitting cars in front but not always . All dive bombing is bad if there are cars in front , even if you miss .
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So Daniel Ricciardo is bad ?

I think some are a bit to touchy when it comes to divebombing. Sure its not the nicest way to overtake but it has and always will be part of racing. As long as they beat you to the apex, there is no contact and they dont overshoot the corner like OP there is no problem.
 

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