- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Slow in fast out.Respect every driver around you by maintaining car control.
Slow in fast out.Respect every driver around you by maintaining car control.
Slow in fast out.
If you hit the apex then you did not dive bomb. Dive bombing is hitting the breaks as late as possible in order to make the turn without going off track . Hitting the brakes as late as possible to hit the apex , if failed , will result in going wide , not off track . This can cause a collision , but is pretty valid . Dive bombing Will never gain you time , I mean it can give you the satisfaction of overtaking a person for a second before they overtake you due to having a superior exit speed .
I would say that a dive bomb is a dangerously optimistic attempt to overtake at the inside by braking late. What's dangerously optimistic depends on the context. Had it just been a single car in front of him in the OP's example it wouldn't have been dangerous, but in this case it's a whole field of cars (of which many of them brake early to make T1 safely) and he's just lucky that there isn't someone already at the apex by the time he gets there.
So yes, this example is a dive bomb.
Agreed, but if you hit the apex, you had a lot more room to break depending on how wide the track is.
Agreed with your assessment, this is a risky move that will not pay off more often than not - most drivers wouldn't attempt this maneuver because it has a high % chance of going wrong, OP is lucky in this case that there was plenty of space for him - and he got away clean. However, if a couple things go differently, OP is causing a wreck on turn 1 of a long race.Before running out of track, yes. But not before running into another car, had there already been one at the apex. In this case it's a gamble wether there's a gap or not, since there are so many cars heading into that turn, and that's what makes it risky.
So if you and another car are well past the turn-in point and you decide to come from 50 feet back and drive up the inside, I see you at the last second as I'm well into turning into the corner and swerve to avoid contact with you while you take the racing line that is rightfully mine, and you get by, that's not a divebomb?If the pass is clean (little or no contact) then this cannot be called dive bombing. It was just a very aggressive and risky pass, that they managed to pull off.
"Bombing" by definition results in destruction, so my idea of dive bombing is a severe and blatant punting off course (as in no brakes were used - smash them off-course as hard as you can). My $0.02
I did this race just around 30 minutes ago. Did I divebomb on this one?
I did this race just around 30 minutes ago. Did I divebomb on this one?
IMO. No. He was running a qualifying line into the first corner and left the inside wide open. The contact was from him turning into you, most likely no radar on.
Thanks for the feedback! Honestly these exact answers are what's confusing me. On one side he left the door open, but on the other to say that I had no overlap was an understatement.Yes you did. You weren't really alongside before the turn in point and you weren't exactly making the corner, although the contact was because of a failed attempt at a cut back.
Thanks for the feedback! Honestly these exact answers are what's confusing me. On one side he left the door open, but on the other to say that I had no overlap was an understatement.
I think that I could've made that corner though; the contact did little to disrupt my line so it would've been more or less the same exit. If you were talking about my pace around the corner then yes that was horrible
At 8.56 of the below I was a victim of 2, what I consider, dive bombs in 2 corners! Lol
I can't deny that. I was really wide on the exit and even then the 458 overtook me. Thanks for clearing things upSure, you could've made the corner, but lets say instead of going for a cutback he takes the corner on the outside. You would've had to brake well past the apex in order to slow down enough to not push him off the track.
Thanks for the feedback! Honestly these exact answers are what's confusing me. On one side he left the door open, but on the other to say that I had no overlap was an understatement.
I think that I could've made that corner though; the contact did little to disrupt my line so it would've been more or less the same exit. If you were talking about my pace around the corner then yes that was horrible
I'm sorry, but neither of these are examples of dive bombs, the first guy just pokes his nose on the inside of you - there is PLENTY of space for you, but you turn down into him, not sure why.
Same for the second driver, you're going slower - and there is space inside of you, but you suddenly swerve across to try and block him.
Racing is not a sport for you if every time somebody comes close to your car you use your car as a barrier to shove them out of the way.
Closing the door is something you do against a driver who is behind you, and has adequate time to react to your move, you tried to use your car like a barrier to shove people around who really weren't dive bombing you.
I agree.
Without seeing the shots from the car behind, I would guess that the white car had intentions of taking the inside line and when the door was closing he had no where to go. The second car making the pass was stuffing him like a thanksgiving turkey on exit because of the OP's slower exit speed.
I agree with @Spurgy 777 , by the looks of the replay you had no overlap at the turn in point, that's the issue. He'd already begun turning to the apex and then you came out from behind him. He had to swerve slightly to avoid contact. That's a classic divebomb even though the result is only minor contact and no major carnage. It has nothing to do with whether you can make the corner or not and everything to do with when you initiate the pass. It also has nothing to do with leaving room. There's room on every corner unless he drives up the curb, in which case there's room on the outside. Tracks are all more than 2 cars wide so there's always room somewhere so that doesn't work as a point of reference. That's why you don't focus on the result but rather the mechanics or logistics of the pass because those same logistics can be applied to every pass on every corner on every track.Thanks for the feedback! Honestly these exact answers are what's confusing me. On one side he left the door open, but on the other to say that I had no overlap was an understatement.
I think that I could've made that corner though; the contact did little to disrupt my line so it would've been more or less the same exit. If you were talking about my pace around the corner then yes that was horrible
For me it's not a dive bomb, it's a clean overtake.
You watched the interior empty, no cars, no crash, etc......took it with a late braking. Excellent done and nice to watch. If they do not wanted you to pass in there they should have closed you the door.
"Cleaner" than real races where they bump all the way in the first corner.
I think people should still close the door and take the inside line on corner entry if you think that the person behind will be able to make a clean move by braking just a bit later. It's what makes racing different from qualifying, by taking different lines, most of the time less efficient lines, to take away as many lines as you can from your opponent. That said, this is only feasible when, as you said, both drivers are aware of each other and are cooperating.This mentality that if I don't want a dive bomber, I should "close the door" is ridiculous.
If a car is going roughly the same speed as me, and is clearly behind me as we approach a braking point and has not begun committing to a pass in any way, I'm not going to take an inside line just to prevent him from diving up the inside of me, especially on the first lap as overall this will just slow me down and bottle the race up even more.
Now, let's say I don't take the inside line, but see him moving to the inside to dive me, so I swerve over and close the door - all I end up doing is getting rear-ended, and slowing myself down even more in the process.
It is the responsibility of the overtaking car to make his/her intentions known in a safe manner - and to make the pass without contact. If you drove in real life and constantly shoved your car up the inside "because it's open" you'd be the cause of so many accidents that you'd be removed eventually.
Passing up the inside is a totally legitimate tactic, especially in heavy braking zones - but it requires both drivers to be aware of each other - and to cooperate. Lunging from 2 car lengths back is the opposite of a safe overtake.
This mentality that if I don't want a dive bomber, I should "close the door" is ridiculous.
This mentality that if I don't want a dive bomber, I should "close the door" is ridiculous.
If a car is going roughly the same speed as me, and is clearly behind me as we approach a braking point and has not begun committing to a pass in any way, I'm not going to take an inside line just to prevent him from diving up the inside of me, especially on the first lap as overall this will just slow me down and bottle the race up even more.
Maybe this is just me being sleep deprived, but I'll let the clip do the initial bit of talking(this is me of course):
When this happened, my initial thought was, "Did I just get away a dive bomb!?" and for the past week now I've been passing it off as such...until maybe a few minutes ago. After looking back at the clip I noticed that the moment I engaged the brakes was slightly before my usual brake point which led me to think, "was that move just a normal pass or was it really a dive bomb?" Now I understand blatant lunges from a mile away, but in this instance would that move I made really count as dive bombing? Also in instances like this what do you think counts as dive bombing?
Great start ! Cleared them both before the apex, no contact and no running wide so the move was fine. Not all divebombs are bad imo. As long as you make it stick without overshooting and there is no contact all is fine. They are risky though and need the other driver to have some skill as well. It's not my prefered way to overtake someone and i only do it if i know i can trust them and brake later or if they are running close behind someone so they need to brake a little early and i can box them in.
Here is someone pulling one on me. This one was a bit to risky for my liking and required me to do some avoiding but he made it stick and there was no contact so it was legit.
You are alongside, or past prior to turn in... no one needed to avoid you... good to go.
He was not alongside, much less past prior to turn in... you needed to adjust your line after turning in, to avoid carnage... DiveBomb.
You are too kind.
Yeah now i agree with both your assessments@John Crellin ... sorry, fixed now, I made a mess og multi-quote and was editing... poorly...
yes, you should have to close the door on them. The problem here is that everyone was on the outside line and braking to avoid collision which is slower than being on the inside and out braking everyone. Its a legitimate strategy for T1 (or any corner). If out braking people was bad racecraft, there would be no point in improving braking distance. Cars that have greater brake force can out brake their opponents, and as long as they dont disrupt the cornering of another player, why is that anything other than fast, clean racing?
just because you decide to brake at the 150m marker doesnt mean that I have to also.
he ran wide on the apex because he was on the inside line. There are no rules stating that you cant miss the apex and run wide when solo through a corner.