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Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by SkyArkz23, Feb 6, 2018.
Slow in fast out.
That is very true in this game, slow in -> get bumped from behind mid corner -> fast out
I would say that a dive bomb is a dangerously optimistic attempt to overtake at the inside by braking late. What's dangerously optimistic depends on the context. Had it just been a single car in front of him in the OP's example it wouldn't have been dangerous, but in this case it's a whole field of cars (of which many of them brake early to make T1 safely) and he's just lucky that there isn't someone already at the apex by the time he gets there.
So yes, this example is a dive bomb.
Agreed, but if you hit the apex, you had a lot more room to break depending on how wide the track is.
A dive bomb is simply an out braking move that results in you not being able to do the corner properly, if you can dive down the inside of someone and do the corner properly and or semi properly without contact then it's a great pass.
But with these types of passes it requires the other driver to recognise and avoid contact for it not to be a dive bomb on your end, your the one attacking so any contact in most cases is your fault(if the other driver turns in too early on purpose to create a collision for eg then it's not your fault).
Before running out of track, yes. But not before running into another car, had there already been one at the apex. In this case it's a gamble wether there's a gap or not, since there are so many cars heading into that turn, and that's what makes it risky.
Agreed with your assessment, this is a risky move that will not pay off more often than not - most drivers wouldn't attempt this maneuver because it has a high % chance of going wrong, OP is lucky in this case that there was plenty of space for him - and he got away clean. However, if a couple things go differently, OP is causing a wreck on turn 1 of a long race.
If the pass is clean (little or no contact) then this cannot be called dive bombing. It was just a very aggressive and risky pass, that they managed to pull off.
"Bombing" by definition results in destruction, so my idea of dive bombing is a severe and blatant punting off course (as in no brakes were used - smash them off-course as hard as you can). My $0.02
At 8.56 of the below I was a victim of 2, what I consider, dive bombs in 2 corners! Lol
So if you and another car are well past the turn-in point and you decide to come from 50 feet back and drive up the inside, I see you at the last second as I'm well into turning into the corner and swerve to avoid contact with you while you take the racing line that is rightfully mine, and you get by, that's not a divebomb?
I did this race just around 30 minutes ago. Did I divebomb on this one?
IMO. No. He was running a qualifying line into the first corner and left the inside wide open. The contact was from him turning into you, most likely no radar on.
Yes you did. You weren't really alongside before the turn in point and you weren't exactly making the corner, although the contact was because of a failed attempt at a cut back.
Thanks for the feedback! Honestly these exact answers are what's confusing me. On one side he left the door open, but on the other to say that I had no overlap was an understatement.
I think that I could've made that corner though; the contact did little to disrupt my line so it would've been more or less the same exit. If you were talking about my pace around the corner then yes that was horrible
Sure, you could've made the corner, but lets say instead of going for a cutback he takes the corner on the outside. You would've had to brake well past the apex in order to slow down enough to not push him off the track.
I'm sorry, but neither of these are examples of dive bombs, the first guy just pokes his nose on the inside of you - there is PLENTY of space for you, but you turn down into him, not sure why.
Same for the second driver, you're going slower - and there is space inside of you, but you suddenly swerve across to try and block him.
Racing is not a sport for you if every time somebody comes close to your car you use your car as a barrier to shove them out of the way.
Closing the door is something you do against a driver who is behind you, and has adequate time to react to your move, you tried to use your car like a barrier to shove people around who really weren't dive bombing you.
I can't deny that. I was really wide on the exit and even then the 458 overtook me. Thanks for clearing things up
Whether there is room on the inside is irrelevant, you still need to be able to overtake in a way that doesn’t cause the other driver to take evasive action to avoid contact. And by making the corner I don’t mean staying on track, you need to be able to take the corner whilst allowing room on the outside line for the defending driver.
Without seeing the shots from the car behind, I would guess that the white car had intentions of taking the inside line and when the door was closing he had no where to go. The second car making the pass was stuffing him like a thanksgiving turkey on exit because of the OP's slower exit speed.
Whats funny is at 10:35 he dives both of them more than the original guy dove him, he tries to underbrake both of them, while on the inside line and runs wide - he's lucky no car is there... then calls it a lovely move.
Some people are so critical of how others drive around them, but not critical of there own driving. I'd love to see him race himself, every pass would be "dirty" to the person being passed, but "clean" do the guy doing the passing.
I agree with @Spurgy 777 , by the looks of the replay you had no overlap at the turn in point, that's the issue. He'd already begun turning to the apex and then you came out from behind him. He had to swerve slightly to avoid contact. That's a classic divebomb even though the result is only minor contact and no major carnage. It has nothing to do with whether you can make the corner or not and everything to do with when you initiate the pass. It also has nothing to do with leaving room. There's room on every corner unless he drives up the curb, in which case there's room on the outside. Tracks are all more than 2 cars wide so there's always room somewhere so that doesn't work as a point of reference. That's why you don't focus on the result but rather the mechanics or logistics of the pass because those same logistics can be applied to every pass on every corner on every track.
For me it's not a dive bomb, it's a clean overtake.
You watched the interior empty, no cars, no crash, etc......took it with a late braking. Excellent done and nice to watch. If they do not wanted you to pass in there they should have closed you the door.
"Cleaner" than real races where they bump all the way in the first corner.
This mentality that if I don't want a dive bomber, I should "close the door" is ridiculous.
If a car is going roughly the same speed as me, and is clearly behind me as we approach a braking point and has not begun committing to a pass in any way, I'm not going to take an inside line just to prevent him from diving up the inside of me, especially on the first lap as overall this will just slow me down and bottle the race up even more.
Now, let's say I don't take the inside line, but see him moving to the inside to dive me, so I swerve over and close the door - all I end up doing is getting rear-ended, and slowing myself down even more in the process.
It is the responsibility of the overtaking car to make his/her intentions known in a safe manner - and to make the pass without contact. If you drove in real life and constantly shoved your car up the inside "because it's open" you'd be the cause of so many accidents that you'd be removed eventually.
Passing up the inside is a totally legitimate tactic, especially in heavy braking zones - but it requires both drivers to be aware of each other - and to cooperate. Lunging from 2 car lengths back is the opposite of a safe overtake.
I think people should still close the door and take the inside line on corner entry if you think that the person behind will be able to make a clean move by braking just a bit later. It's what makes racing different from qualifying, by taking different lines, most of the time less efficient lines, to take away as many lines as you can from your opponent. That said, this is only feasible when, as you said, both drivers are aware of each other and are cooperating.
I agree totally with your post!
But sadly in most GTS sport races if you have a car anywhere close to being behind you and do not totally close the door to an inside lane more often than not you will have the other car dive down inside of your line and making contact and pushing you out of the way to open the rest of lane they need apparently is an acceptable form of racecraft for many.
Even worse with you now being on the outside being hit you may very well end up with an orange SR sector and maybe even a penalty for being pushed out of the way while the instigator continues on penalty free.
In GTS racers do not race the same as in real life and you must adjust your driving to the game which means more defensive lines or continue to be dive bombed on the inside.
You lose lap time either way just one you probably hold onto your current position in the race.
Dive bombing IMO is a late breaking maneuver with the intention to overtake an opponent, without having sufficient overlap and after the lead driver has turned into the corner, which forces the opponent wide through contact or to take evasive maneuvers to avoid collision.
this is not that because the opponents have neither turned in nor are any forced to change their lines through the corner
yes, you should have to close the door on them. The problem here is that everyone was on the outside line and braking to avoid collision which is slower than being on the inside and out braking everyone. Its a legitimate strategy for T1 (or any corner). If out braking people was bad racecraft, there would be no point in improving braking distance. Cars that have greater brake force can out brake their opponents, and as long as they dont disrupt the cornering of another player, why is that anything other than fast, clean racing?
just because you decide to brake at the 150m marker doesnt mean that I have to also.
he ran wide on the apex because he was on the inside line. There are no rules stating that you cant miss the apex and run wide when solo through a corner.
Edit: oh and i will completely agree though that this was a very risky maneuver...but then again, any overtake before a corner is risky
You are alongside, or past prior to turn in... no one needed to avoid you... good to go.
He was not alongside, much less past prior to turn in... you needed to adjust your line after turning in, to avoid carnage... DiveBomb.
You are too kind.
these responses seem contradictory
@John Crellin ... sorry, fixed now, I made a mess of multi-quote and was editing... poorly...
Yeah now i agree with both your assessments
I'm referring to the people who are driving behind you, a car length or two back - you are taking a typical driving line and they are following.
You hit your brake point, not early - and they see the inside open, brake later than normal and take an inside line.
You have to swerve to avoid contact, and then hope to regain with a cutback, but depending on how far back they started from a cutback is impossible because you'd have to wait too long, or you try and run the corner wide with room for them to come inside and they push you wide as they were coming in too fast and don't want to lose exit speed by having to slow down to give you space on the outside.
I'm not saying I shouldn't have to defend against reasonable underbraking maneuvers, it's the ridiculous late lunges that people justify by saying "you left the door open" - like, no I didn't, you just can't drive.