What Grinds your Gears?

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Of course we weren't the only ones fighting but the main point of that was the Japanese cars being driven by U.S. veterans. I didn't say anything about a Russian driving a German car.

Nor did I. Do you even know where Scotland is? The fact that you don't think US veterans should be driving Japanese cars is ignorant. Then again, I shouldn't expect more from a country whose education system is blind to international news.

Also, I've never ever heard that they were going to surrender before that. Plus, Japan was also working on an atomic bomb I believe. If they were going to surrender, why didn't they?

Emperor Hirohito had already tried to surrender, but was worried about losing face. And why wouldn't they be working on their own atomic weapons? The US still has atomic weapons as a deterrent.

Edit:

Now I feel we should stop debating the facts of world war 2, but I still take issue with your comments on the cars.
 
I'm sorry BubbleBelly, but I'm siding with F1 Fan on this one. You're saying because the US fought Japan no veteran should drive a Japanese car. That's bull:censored:! Nobody would get on if we didn't forgive people for past 'mistakes'. How do you think Europe would be like now if the UK refused to have anything to do with Germany? It would be chaos. It was 70 years ago, get over it.
 
F1 fan
What an Ignorant statement. I had relatives die in WW2, and my grandfather was orphaned as a result. And yet, for a number of years he lived in Germany. And has bought German cars.

America needs to drop this attitude.

Edit: Take the above with a pinch of salt. I know you're not a bad guy Cowboys.

Yea, I did think that Bubble had a useless statement. It was 70 years ago, I just didn't know if you were thinking of who the US fought.
 
And have you forgot the fact that the Japanese were going to surrender before the US dropped two atomic bombs on them? The atrocities committed by the US in Japan is not something I can ever forgive, but I don't go around blaming people who never had anything to do with it in the first place.

Because the USA wanted an unconditional surrender. Japanese didn't want to surrender unconditionally.

And I don't think its ignorant to be honest. I think BubbleBelly542 raises a valid point.

If I were a veteran, it'd be like driving an enemy vehicle. Sure it's in the past, but the whole Pearl Harbour thing, yeah there is a reason for that. Hiroshima was just retaliation (And justfully so).
 
F1 fan
Nor did I. Do you even know where Scotland is? The fact that you don't think US veterans should be driving Japanese cars is ignorant. Then again, I shouldn't expect more from a country whose education system is blind to international news.

It is my opinion that vets shouldn't drive Japanese cars. There's nothing to be ignorant about. I just don't like it.

Also, blind to international news? What is that supposed to mean? If you mean stuff that happens around the world isn't coveted here, you are extremely wrong. I've learned about many other countries. I've been taught more about other countries than my own.

You are being ignorant. Making assumptions based on what you think about the education system here.

You know it's bad when someone calls having an opinion ignorant.
 
It depends who it is. They could have different thoughts about it. But saying they shouldn't drive it just because it's Japanese is odd.
 
Vandenal
Because the USA wanted an unconditional surrender. Japanese didn't want to surrender unconditionally.

And I don't think its ignorant to be honest. I think BubbleBelly542 raises a valid point.

If I were a veteran, it'd be like driving an enemy vehicle. Sure it's in the past, but the whole Pearl Harbour thing, yeah there is a reason for that. Hiroshima was just retaliation (And justfully so).

Thank you sir. For God's sake people, read what I wrote. I said I know it was a long time ago and I said that there were different people in Japan back then. But what I'm saying is that wouldn't you rather buy a car from your country? Especially when you put your life on the line for a country and then you turn around and buy a car from a different country.
 
Ok, I think it should be left there now.

You have all made your points now lets move on and get back on topic yeah?
 
And I don't think its ignorant to be honest. I think BubbleBelly542 raises a valid point.

I disagree. I have many German friends and it is not something we talk about, but I don't see why they should feel any remorse for what happened. They were not responsible for it.

If I were a veteran, it'd be like driving an enemy vehicle. Sure it's in the past, but the whole Pearl Harbour thing, yeah there is a reason for that. Hiroshima was just retaliation (And justfully so).

I have to disagree with you again Alex. I know I'm not necessarily impartial here as my Fiancee is Japanese. But my Fiancee's 90 year old grandmother has very horrible memories of that period. Nagasaki and Hiroshima were not justifiable actions.

Truman knew of the Japanese will to surrender. As far as I'm concerned, the man is a monster. He knew what the situation was. He decided to go through with it.

You know it's bad when someone calls having an opinion ignorant.

When an opinion involves harboring bad blood about something that's well and truly in the past, it is ignorant.

But what I'm saying is that wouldn't you rather buy a car from your country?

It's an open market. I buy American guitars, because for me, they are the best. I am not American. We all have the right to choose. The fact that a US vet sees no problem in driving a Japanese car, but you do says more about you to be honest.

Especially when you put your life on the line for a country and then you turn around and buy a car from a different country.

I don't see the problem.
 
F1 fan
I disagree. I have many German friends and it is not something we talk about, but I don't see why they should feel any remorse for what happened. They were not responsible for it.

I have to disagree with you again Alex. I know I'm not necessarily impartial here as my Fiancee is Japanese. But my Fiancee's 90 year old grandmother has very horrible memories of that period. Nagasaki and Hiroshima were not justifiable actions.

Truman knew of the Japanese will to surrender. As far as I'm concerned, the man is a monster. He knew what the situation was. He decided to go through with it.

Well that's plain stupid on Truman's part. That's more ignorant than me. But that's different than the soldier choosing a car.

Also, it's certainty a different scale, but the Pearl Harbor attack was not justifiable. Like I said, it's a way smalled scale.

I hate arguing and I hate war. They both grind my gears.

F1 I hope you don't hate me for having an opinion. I have respect for you and value your opinion but I feel I am entitled to my own opinion.

Also, B-Spec grinds my gears. It takes too long. I need fast forward.
 
madmike1986
Ok, I think it should be left there now.

You have all made your points now lets move on and get back on topic yeah?

This.

And my gear grinder? I think I have to shave again!
 
BubbleBelly542
It is my opinion that vets shouldn't drive Japanese cars. There's nothing to be ignorant about. I just don't like it.

That makes absolutely no sense. It's like you are trying to say that WWII Veterans should not be allowed to buy Japanese cars. While some American WWII vets will see a modern Japanese product and say "Damn Japanese . . . ." (And rightfully so, they fought a brutal war with Japan), others will look past it and see it is a different generation and a different people who built this product. I don't see how you can think it is wrong for a WWII vet to have a Japanese car. It seems like you are basing this on the premise that all Vets have the "damn Japanese" mentality, and those who don't should. Your comment really confuses me.

This isn't as much ignorant as it is uninformed.
 
There's someone riding around on his Suzuki Blackbusa (or whatever their called) in 1st (sounds like it), generally just being an annoying dick.
 
Schwartz38
That makes absolutely no sense. It's like you are trying to say that WWII Veterans should not be allowed to buy Japanese cars. While some American WWII vets will see a modern Japanese product and say "Damn Japanese . . . ." (And rightfully so, they fought a brutal war with Japan), others will look past it and see it is a different generation and a different people who built this product. I don't see how you can think it is wrong for a WWII vet to have a Japanese car. It seems like you are basing this on the premise that all Vets have the "damn Japanese" mentality, and those who don't should. Your comment really confuses me.

This isn't as much ignorant as it is uninformed.

I'm not saying they're allowed too, but it just makes me sad. You also completely contradict yourself here: "(And rightfully so, they fought a brutal war with Japan)". That was my whole point!

Also, uninformed means there's some fact I'm unaware of. There's no facts to be known here.

What grinds my gears now is having to come up with stuff to say to stay/get back on topic.

race'emhard
There's someone riding around on his Suzuki Blackbusa (or whatever their called) in 1st (sounds like it), generally just being an annoying dick.

Balances is what it's called. 1st gear is so boring! What's the point.
 
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BubbleBelly542
I'm not saying they're allowed too, but it just makes me sad. You also completely contradict yourself here: "(And rightfully so, they fought a brutal war with Japan)". That was my whole point!

What grinds my gears now is having to come up with stuff to say to stay/get back on topic.

No, I don't. After saying that, I said that your statement is based on the Premise that all WWII vets do and should think like this. Which, by buying a Japanese car, some obviously have come to their senses and don't think this way.

I still don't understand your reasoning. A normal person can buy a Japanese car, but as soon as a WWII Veteran does it, its wrong? The point of ending wars is to make peace with the enemy, which often means resuming commerce with that country and sometimes even becoming allies with that country. Yes, some Vets may still have problems with the peace since they had friends getting killed at the hands of this enemy, but the many who are following along with the peace between the two countries should be allowed to. A whole country had to make peace with a whole other country. Why can't the veterans do this too?
In conclusion:
Maybe to some who have not been alive for the whole 70 year time span of WWII to now it may seem weird or ironic that a vet is buying a Japanese car, but it should not feel wrong. I know none of us here have been alive for 70 years, but don't you think that is a long enough time to make up with a past enemy?
 
Oh my God. I'm not saying they all think like that or they should. That's how I think and how I would think if I were a vet. Can really drop it now? Seriously. It's my opinion not yours.

What grinds my gears is that everyone here is so critical of my opinion. There is no fact for there to be wrong about and it's just my opinion. Why can't I just have an opinion and that's that?
 
BubbleBelly542
Oh my God. I'm not saying they all think like that or they should. That's how I think and how I would think if I were a vet. Can really drop it now? Seriously. It's my opinion not yours.

Dropped :lol:
 
Using that logic, the US should steer clear of British cars, television and such. We were your enemy once.

In fact, I think you lot have raised an interesting point. My landlord and landlady here in former east German territory were born in the 1940s and grew up in the GDR; communist/super socialist Germany. And you know something? They liked it. Socialism worked perfectly for them and anybody who has ever spoke to east German citizens will know that the people weren't as oppressed as we're led to believe. Yes, the politicians were crooked and yes, there was a 17 year waiting list for a car. But everything worked like clockwork; trains and buses went everywhere and everybody had a job. It was dirt, dirt cheap to live too. It cost my landpeople 70 Marks to buy their house. Childcare was 16 pence. Less than a Mark to travel pretty much anywhere on public transport. They're used to capitalism now, but they say, and it's true, that capitalism has ruined East Germany over the last 20 years. As soon as the wall came down, the nationalised industries were closed down and almost everybody was out of a job.

To most Westerners, we imagine the old East Germany as being communist hell but for some people it worked. It just did. There were issues politically, clearly, but they openly admit that they enjoyed successful, happy lives. Just thought I'd raise that issue, because they have also gone on to say that they, as Germans, still feel immensely guilty about the war. They weren't even alive when it happened but they feel guilty about it whenever we talk about the war. They know they shouldn't feel this way, but say that the Germans should not gloss over and erase their past. Pay for their mistakes and make sure they never happen again. And look at Germany now, the largest, most prosperous economy in Europe. And us Brits certainly don't have problems driving German cars.
 
race'emhard
There's someone riding around on his Suzuki Blackbusa (or whatever their called) in 1st (sounds like it), generally just being an annoying dick.

Hayabusa! :lol: You saw that Top Gear episode I take it...;)
 
MazdaPrice
Using that logic, the US should steer clear of British cars, television and such. We were your enemy once.

In fact, I think you lot have raised an interesting point. My landlord and landlady here in former east German territory were born in the 1940s and grew up in the GDR; communist/super socialist Germany. And you know something? They liked it. Socialism worked perfectly for them and anybody who has ever spoke to east German citizens will know that the people weren't as oppressed as we're led to believe. Yes, the politicians were crooked and yes, there was a 17 year waiting list for a car. But everything worked like clockwork; trains and buses went everywhere and everybody had a job. It was dirt, dirt cheap to live too. It cost my landpeople 70 Marks to buy their house. Childcare was 16 pence. Less than a Mark to travel pretty much anywhere on public transport. They're used to capitalism now, but they say, and it's true, that capitalism has ruined East Germany over the last 20 years. As soon as the wall came down, the nationalised industries were closed down and almost everybody was out of a job.

To most Westerners, we imagine the old East Germany as being communist hell but for some people it worked. It just did. There were issues politically, clearly, but they openly admit that they enjoyed successful, happy lives. Just thought I'd raise that issue, because they have also gone on to say that they, as Germans, still feel immensely guilty about the war. They weren't even alive when it happened but they feel guilty about it whenever we talk about the war. They know they shouldn't feel this way, but say that the Germans should not gloss over and erase their past. Pay for their mistakes and make sure they never happen again. And look at Germany now, the largest, most prosperous economy in Europe. And us Brits certainly don't have problems driving German cars.

A gear grinder, BBC America isn't on my TV!!!!! It says we have to subscribe now! Favorite channel, gone!
 
Cowboys965
A gear grinder, BBC America isn't on my TV!!!!! It says we have to subscribe now! Favorite channel, gone!

What do you have? Directv? Dish?
 
American veterans (or any nation's veterans) having to drive a car of their own nationality seems very narrow-minded as an opinion to me. It's ultimately their own choice as an individual. But that's not even the point I want to make.

Cars these days are often designed and produced in so many different countries. The chances of any one car being entirely designed and produced in one country is very small. As only one (of innumerable) examples, take the GM plant in Oshawa. It produces many vehicles that eventually get exported and sold in the US. The new Buick Regal is one of them, but that car was originally an Opel, I believe. So, does merely having an American badge make it an American car, or do you have to consider all of the other factors? It was at least partially designed in Germany and is built in Canada. The US fought Germany in two world wars and tangled with Canada in the War of 1812. Does this make the Buick a no-no? Cars are so multi-national these days that even if you took stock in the viewpoint that vets should be nationalistic in their car purchases, it would be well-neigh impossible even if they wanted to.

Same with some of the Toyotas. They're built stateside, right? If no one buys them then those jobs are lost, which will hurt you as an American citizen more than seeing a veteran buy a foreign nameplate. That argument founders on economic reasons alone.
 
People! I'm not saying they have too! I feel like I should never express my opinion again because look what happens!

Also, Mazda, when were the British the enemy of the U.S.?
 
Part gear grinder, part weird fact, part to-do-with-our-discussion;

Most Vauxhalls are built in Germany. 80% of Opels are built in the UK.

Wat.
 
AMCNUT
American veterans (or any nation's veterans) having to drive a car of their own nationality seems very narrow-minded as an opinion to me. It's ultimately their own choice as an individual. But that's not even the point I want to make.

Cars these days are often designed and produced in so many different countries. The chances of any one car being entirely designed and produced in one country is very small. As only one (of innumerable) examples, take the GM plant in Oshawa. It produces many vehicles that eventually get exported and sold in the US. The new Buick Regal is one of them, but that car was originally an Opel, I believe. So, does merely having an American badge make it an American car, or do you have to consider all of the other factors? It was at least partially designed in Germany and is built in Canada. The US fought Germany in two world wars and tangled with Canada in the War of 1812. Does this make the Buick a no-no? Cars are so multi-national these days that even if you took stock in the viewpoint that vets should be nationalistic in their car purchases, it would be well-neigh impossible even if they wanted to.

Same with some of the Toyotas. They're built stateside, right? If no one buys them then those jobs are lost, which will hurt you as an American citizen more than seeing a veteran buy a foreign nameplate. That argument founders on economic reasons alone.

Well if you would have actually read what I said, you would have seen that I realized many Japanese cars are made here. That is fantastic. Now, when I wrote that, I didn't take into account the fact that not having the companies here would result in a loss of jobs. But, a huge majority of the profit goes back to Japan. There goes more money to Japan, and not America.

If anything, it just seems to look bad on American car companies. Being labeled as an American company and all, regardless of where the car is made, it seems that to most vets it would make more sense to drive a car from YOUR country that you fought for.

Certainly there are many sides to this. Yes, I did overlook some things. Okay GTPlanet community, you got me. Once again I'm wrong and everyone else is right and everyone must tell me the same thing over and over. Honestly I'm admitting I've failed to make a good argument.

But for real, can we drop this or move it to PM or make a thread for it?

MazdaPrice
American Revolution?

War of 1812?

Ah yes. Didn't think back far enough.
 
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