What is the Most Overrated Car Of All Time?

[Leonidae]

The Nissan R35 GTR, all the way....

Hush you infidel! Chevrolet Camaro and 911.. er, Corvette are just as overrated.

 

[eiriksmil]

As I ask everyone, on what grounds? The latter one is a ****ing fast car to a tenth of other ****ing fast cars; to me it seems to do what it says on the tin..

 

[TVC]

Any particular reason why the M5 (which one, btw?) and the 7 series (which one also?) are the only BMW's that aren't overrated in your opinion?

The M5 is the fastest BMW and probably the best looking. The 7 series is good at what it is for but the new (2010) one is extremely ugly. Some people don't like Ford and others don't like Chevy. I don't like BMW.

I think they are over rated because they don't really make any great cars. The M6 is fast but it's about the same price as a GT3 but uglier and slower. The 3 series is not any nicer than a Honda Accord for the same price and the M3 is okay but nothing special. BMW doesn't really have anything that Mercedes or Porsche doesn't have and everything they do have is not as nice as those two companies alone (without comparing it to other companies).

 

[Azuremen]

Wow, you really are smoking something.

Have you driven all the cars you are comparing in this? Outside of a video game? The 3 Series craps all over the Accord. Part of why they are in different segments.

 

[YSSMAN]

I could understand not liking BMWs, but calling them overrated based on that criteria is silly. They're still generally the benchmark for everyone, on just about everything, and that has to say something about how good they are. I personally think the only BMW that crosses into "overrated" territory is the 1-series, but that's more of a personal preference thing than anything else.

 

[niky]

The M5 is the fastest BMW and probably the best looking. The 7 series is good at what it is for but the new (2010) one is extremely ugly. Some people don't like Ford and others don't like Chevy. I don't like BMW.

I think they are over rated because they don't really make any great cars. The M6 is fast but it's about the same price as a GT3 but uglier and slower. The 3 series is not any nicer than a Honda Accord for the same price and the M3 is okay but nothing special. BMW doesn't really have anything that Mercedes or Porsche doesn't have and everything they do have is not as nice as those two companies alone (without comparing it to other companies).

See... this is strange... I've driven most of the BMW range (sans the 335i and the new 1-coupe... though I've driven most of the 1s...), and I've ridden on the track in both the M5 and M3.

Of the current M-cars, the M3 is the most true to the BMW spirit... the M5 is an exercise in compromise. It's too heavy and luxurious to be a true sportscar on one hand, and it's too incredibly stiff and jerky (thanks to the SMG) with too little range to be a grand tourer, on the other. The M3 is a purer, more focused sportscar.

The X5, I'd take over the competition, despite it being a bit tight in the back seat... the 7-series? It's nice, mind you, but it doesn't drive as well as you think it does, and the competition all make good cases for themselves over the 7.

 

[Jim Prower]

Of course, the point of this thread is that people will disagree, so, I figure that linking to this post should make my point clear...

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3395555&postcount=45

Note: the GT-R is overrated NOW. This has been overrated since at least the '70s. maybe earlier.

 

[TVC]

Wow, you really are smoking something.

Have you driven all the cars you are comparing in this? Outside of a video game? The 3 Series craps all over the Accord. Part of why they are in different segments.

I am not talking about in performance. The 3 series is really nothing amazing and is just like any other car. I don't see why anyone would ever want one. Not to mention you own an M3 so of course you are going to not agree with me when I say BMW is overrated. My point is BMW has never made a true supercar and besides the M3 they are really only okay in everything they do but never really all that great at it. Even then with the M3 they have some serious competition with Mercedes.

I could understand not liking BMWs, but calling them overrated based on that criteria is silly. They're still generally the benchmark for everyone, on just about everything, and that has to say something about how good they are. I personally think the only BMW that crosses into "overrated" territory is the 1-series, but that's more of a personal preference thing than anything else.

I don't know who they are the benchmark for but definitely not everyone. If you are talking about other companies you are definitely wrong unless you are talking about the M3 but even then that is only true for a few companies. I rarely hear about companies trying to make a car as good or better than a BMW unless it is the M3. If you are talking about for individual people then I definitely do not know what you are talking about. Having a BMW is nothing special even if it is an M6. If anything the 1 series is another one of the few BMW's that is not overrated.

Besides the performance aspect of the cars every BMW that comes out the factory just seems like a bunch of pieces of metal attached together. Some people like to think cars have "personality" and if that is true BMW is one company that doesn't have one and if it does it is very boring.

Looking past the car the real reason I don't like BMW also has to do with the actual driver. Stereotypes are not always true and might not be true for most cases but BMW drivers are known for acting like they have the nicest cars (when they don't) and always thinking they can either do whatever they want without making anyone mad or beat anyone in a race (both of which they cannot do).

Of the current M-cars, the M3 is the most true to the BMW spirit... the M5 is an exercise in compromise. It's too heavy and luxurious to be a true sportscar on one hand, and it's too incredibly stiff and jerky (thanks to the SMG) with too little range to be a grand tourer, on the other. The M3 is a purer, more focused sportscar.

The X5, I'd take over the competition, despite it being a bit tight in the back seat... the 7-series? It's nice, mind you, but it doesn't drive as well as you think it does, and the competition all make good cases for themselves over the 7.

I am sure the M3 has better handling and is better to drive (although it is slower in a straight line) but I have always liked the way the 5 series/M5 looks when compared to the other BMW's. I am not saying it looks great or anything but it isn't that bad. The performance is pretty good for its size also.

Yeah but the 7 series is a luxury car so it's not really meant to have great handling and everything. I liked the look of the 7 series (up until the 2009 one) which is one reason I kind of liked it. The competition (especially the LS) does seem to be quite a bit better than the 7 series like you said.

 

[homeforsummer]

I am not talking about in performance. The 3 series is really nothing amazing and is just like any other car. I don't see why anyone would ever want one. Not to mention you own an M3 so of course you are going to not agree with me when I say BMW is overrated. My point is BMW has never made a true supercar and besides the M3 they are really only okay in everything they do but never really all that great at it. Even then with the M3 they have some serious competition with Mercedes.

If you're not talking about performance then why would you be bothered that BMW has never produced a "true supercar"? And since when has a company not making a "true supercar" been a reason to dismiss them?

And how are they only okay in everything they do? Have you ever actually driven a BMW? Or read the numerous road-tests that they win? I've got a back-catalogue of literally thousands of car magazines and it wouldn't surprise me at all if a BMW has won the highest proportion of road-tests it's involved in regardless of the magazine testing it.

And contrary to popular belief, they win tests because they're very good cars, not because all motoring magazines brown-nose BMW for whatever reason.

I don't know who they are the benchmark for but definitely not everyone. If you are talking about other companies you are definitely wrong unless you are talking about the M3 but even then that is only true for a few companies. I rarely hear about companies trying to make a car as good or better than a BMW unless it is the M3.

I doubt Merc, Audi et al benchmark their cars using BMWs but I'm more than certain that all the high volume low price manufacturers (Honda, Ford, the French trio, Vauxhall/Opel etc) benchmark using BMWs for things like quality and handling. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the other German marques actually buy a new BMW when it's released just to see what's what. And you can be damn sure that a lot of companies releasing small cars have used a MINI for benchmarking.

If you've never heard of that sort of practice then again, you obviously haven't been reading many magazines.

Besides the performance aspect of the cars every BMW that comes out the factory just seems like a bunch of pieces of metal attached together. Some people like to think cars have "personality" and if that is true BMW is one company that doesn't have one and if it does it is very boring.

What? That doesn't even make sense. BMWs have a very distinct "feel", both when you're driving them and when you're riding in them. They lack the character of things like Alfas but what exactly are you expecting from them? They're a high-quality German car and all high-quality German cars are solid, tight, quiet places that do without little flaws that give them traditional "character". That doesn't mean they're automatically anodyne.

Looking past the car the real reason I don't like BMW also has to do with the actual driver. Stereotypes are not always true and might not be true for most cases but BMW drivers are known for acting like they have the nicest cars (when they don't) and always thinking they can either do whatever they want without making anyone mad or beat anyone in a race (both of which they cannot do).

This used to be the case but without a doubt the worst offenders for this behaviour are all VAG products (especially diesels), and Vauxhalls now (especially Vectras).

 

[niky]

BMW cars just feel right. Despite BMW suffering the common German disease of niche-itis (building cars for every market segment imaginable... real or imagined), their cars are very distinctive.

While I would never own a 1-series or an X3, as I don't believe the compromises in comfort are worth it, those cars drive with more "personality" than many comparable cars from other brands. The 1-series, for example, is an amazing driving car.

If you're saying BMWs have no personality, you've obviously never driven one. BMWs have tons of personality. Arrogant? Sure, they are... but that's because they make you feel special when you get behind the wheel. Give a little kid a big stick and nine times out of ten, he'll be looking for things to hit it with. Hmm... that goes for Porsche drivers, too.

It's very easy to call something over-rated if you've never tried it for yourself. People who call Miatas soul-less hairdressers' cars, for example, have obviously never done a four-wheel drift in one on the racetrack.

 

[Famine]

Wasn't the M1 a "true supercar"?



Edit:Also, I should add to this previous bit:

And what do we have now? The 107 - pap. The 1007 - complete pap. The 207 - whooooo, pap. The 307 - dog pap. The 307 CC - hideous dog pap. The 407 - wide-mouthed frog pap.

I quite like the 107. I mean... I prefer the Aygo and C1, but they're all good cars, and the 107 is the single model in the entire range that's better than it's predecessor. It's just a pity they haven't seen fit to make a GTi or Rallye model of it, instead concentrating GTi attention on woeful cars like the 207 or 308 (or whatever number they're on now).

We had a 107 as a "courtesy" car the other week while the 207 was serviced.

"Pap" was far, far, far too generous an assessment.

 

[TVC]

Since I don't feel like reading that much and I don't feel like responding in a long paragraph of writing I will just say it in a few sentences. Why do you guys care that I hate BMW so much? I am sure you have a car company you hate and so do I. Like I said some people hate Ford, some people hate Chevy, some people hate Ferrari, and I hate BMW. I simply do not see anything special or appealing about owning, looking at, driving, or even buying a BMW and I would never own one. If you disagree that is great because I am sure you hate something I like. The only way what I think about BMW will change is if they create a true super car like the Enzo Ferrari or the Maserati MC12, they change their horrible designs, and the people who own them or drive them start using their blinkers.

 

[Famine]

The only way what I think about BMW will change is if they create a true super car like the Enzo Ferrari or the Maserati MC12

At the time it was released, BMW made a true supercar in the M1.

 

[TVC]

At the time it was released, BMW made a true supercar in the M1.

That's also the only BMW I truly like and would actually ever think about buying.

Just to make things clear I am not saying BMW is a bad company in terms in performance I am just saying I do not like them. I will admit the M3 is the fastest car in its class and the M5 is also very fast for what it is but that doesn't mean I have to like them.

 

[Jondot]

We had a 107 as a "courtesy" car the other week while the 207 was serviced.

"Pap" was far, far, far too generous an assessment.

What's wrong with the 107?

(Or more importantly, why on earth do you have a 207?)

 

[eiriksmil]

I will admit the M3 is the fastest car in its class and the M5 is also very fast for what it is but that doesn't mean I have to like them.

But the fact that you don't like them doesn't necessarily make 'em overrated..

 

[Ardius]

Why do you guys care that I hate BMW so much? I am sure you have a car company you hate and so do I. , and I hate BMW. I simply do not see anything special or appealing about owning, looking at, driving, or even buying a BMW and I would never own one.

Hmm ok....but then:

That's also the only BMW I truly like and would actually ever think about buying.

You hate them but you like one specific model?

Anyway, as has been said, that doesn't make all BMW's over-rated just because you don't like them.

 

[Famine]

What's wrong with the 107?

"It's sparse, bland, lacks any sort of 'oomph' or power or go, it's not even nippy, it feels wobbly like it's going to fall apart any second, the interior is bland, plasticky and cheap and the exterior is just 'buh'. Oh and the dials are stupid as well. It's just rubbish."

So, there you go

(Or more importantly, why on earth do you have a 207?)

Company car. We've had it since August 2008.

 

[Jondot]

"It's sparse, bland, lacks any sort of 'oomph' or power or go, it's not even nippy, it feels wobbly like it's going to fall apart any second, the interior is bland, plasticky and cheap and the exterior is just 'buh'. Oh and the dials are stupid as well. It's just rubbish."

So, there you go

Actually that sounds about right... How annoying, I was rather hoping it'd be a moderately good car. Oh well.

Company car. We've had it since August 2008.

You have my condolences.

 

[homeforsummer]

Just to make things clear I am not saying BMW is a bad company in terms in performance I am just saying I do not like them. I will admit the M3 is the fastest car in its class and the M5 is also very fast for what it is but that doesn't mean I have to like them.

Nor does it mean you have to start coming up with inaccurate statements about them, as you did before. I don't give a flying flea if you don't like the cars, but when people start spouting tosh then I take more notice.

"It's sparse, bland, lacks any sort of 'oomph' or power or go, it's not even nippy, it feels wobbly like it's going to fall apart any second, the interior is bland, plasticky and cheap and the exterior is just 'buh'. Oh and the dials are stupid as well. It's just rubbish."

Ah, you've just been spoilt by all nice cars you get to drive. I'm more than sure I'd enjoy it immensely given what I drive day to day And my only issue with the interior having sat in the three variants (as in Toyota/Pug/Citroen) is the gearstick, which is a bit like those levers used to change railway tracks.

 

[YSSMAN]

I don't know who they are the benchmark for but definitely not everyone. If you are talking about other companies you are definitely wrong unless you are talking about the M3 but even then that is only true for a few companies. I rarely hear about companies trying to make a car as good or better than a BMW unless it is the M3.

No, not every company purposely says "hey, this car needs to be as good as the BMW "XXX," but the thing is... A lot of them do. Most of the small cars these days are benchmarked against the MINI (the Honda Fit comes to mind), a lot of "affordable" sports coupes are drawn up against the 1-series (the Genesis Coupe comes to mind), the 3-series often gains the greatest amount of attention (throw a car out, its probably been done), the 5-series taking over for the larger models (see 3-series comparison). Its the same thing for the 7, X3, X5 and X6 models as well.

...Everyone is always playing catch-up with BMW, no matter what they end up putting out...

Besides the performance aspect of the cars every BMW that comes out the factory just seems like a bunch of pieces of metal attached together. Some people like to think cars have "personality" and if that is true BMW is one company that doesn't have one and if it does it is very boring.

This is where it seems to become somewhat evident that you A) Haven't been around BMWs very much, and B) likely haven't driven a BMW (no matter the model). Sure, BMWs for the most part are standard-affair models that aren't exactly committed to performance... But the problem here for you is that even a non-M BMW is far more capable than most other "sports" models. As far as personality is concerned, even if the BMWs fall a bit flat by comparison to some rather outrageous Japanese or American competitors, they're still far further ahead of any Mercedes or Audi product. In fact, I think the only brand with more character than BMW that comes out of Germany would be VW... But that's another thread.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Meh. BMW isn't my favorite, but I still rate the cars highly. Either way, a part of me hopes that Duke and ///M-Spec stay out of here.

 

[TVC]

Hmm ok....but then:



You hate them but you like one specific model?

Anyway, as has been said, that doesn't make all BMW's over-rated just because you don't like them.

I hate BMW but I don't hate that car. I hate the company that makes it but it is a nice looking car.

In that case no car is really overrated. It's only an opinion. People are posting in this thread that the GT-R is overrated when a lot of people love that car.

But the fact that you don't like them doesn't necessarily make 'em overrated..

The point of the thread is to post cars you think are overrated. I think BMW is overrated and I said BMW is overrated because that is what I think. Whether that is true or not can be debated but I personally think it is.

Nor does it mean you have to start coming up with inaccurate statements about them, as you did before. I don't give a flying flea if you don't like the cars, but when people start spouting tosh then I take more notice.

Okay then I will come up with accurate statements if you are saying I am generally wrong...

A BMW M6 goes 0-60 in 4.4 to 4.5 seconds, has a slalom speed of about 67 MPH, and costs around $102,000. The Porsche GT3 has a 0-60 time of 4.0 seconds and costs $112,000. I am also sure it has a faster Slalom. The GT3 is clearly faster but has a slightly higher price tag. Of course very few people with actually buy either car with no options.

If you want more examples I have them.

Do you work for BMW? Do you know someone who makes BMW cars? If not I do not understand why you need to fell the need to defend the BMW and get angry when I say "I don't like BMW." Is there something wrong with that? I am sure there is a company you hate. I don't see how me not liking them affects you in anyway. What do you think I am going to do? I am surprised someone actually cares that I do not like them.

There are multiple posts in this thread alone that I do not agree with. Even the first thread says the NSX is overrated and I totally disagree with that but I don't care. That is that persons opinion and it doesn't really affect me. I am interested in hearing their opinion and respect it but I don't feel the need to say they are totally wrong like you are saying to me.

This is where it seems to become somewhat evident that you A) Haven't been around BMWs very much, and B) likely haven't driven a BMW (no matter the model). Sure, BMWs for the most part are standard-affair models that aren't exactly committed to performance... But the problem here for you is that even a non-M BMW is far more capable than most other "sports" models. As far as personality is concerned, even if the BMWs fall a bit flat by comparison to some rather outrageous Japanese or American competitors, they're still far further ahead of any Mercedes or Audi product. In fact, I think the only brand with more character than BMW

Just about everyone here has a BMW. There are even kids at my school with M3's. If anything the reason why I do not like BMW is because I am around them to much and because a lot of people have them they usually say they are better than they really are. Like I said in my last post I respect the M3 but that doesn't mean I like it. I will admit it is one of the fastest cars in its class but I would not buy one. I would not say Mercedes is behind BMW as much as it is Mercedes could use a little work on the C63 and it almost seems as if they do not care about it.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

A BMW M6 goes 0-60 in 4.4 to 4.5 seconds, has a slalom speed of about 67 MPH, and costs around $102,000. The Porsche GT3 has a 0-60 time of 4.0 seconds and costs $112,000. I am also sure it has a faster Slalom. The GT3 is clearly faster but has a slightly higher price tag. Of course very few people with actually buy either car with no options.

These are two different cars. One is a grand tourer and the other is a sports car.

 

[Famine]

TVC - it's not that anyone cares whether you like BMW or not. I don't like BMW - or the majority of people who I've encountered in the UK who drive them like complete bell ends. It's that you're trying to justify (for some reason) a subjective opinion using objective data that isn't true.

We've already established that they did build a supercar, but you're now comparing a BMW GT car with a Porsche road-going track car on raw pace and handling simply because they cost about the same? Must make the Bentley Continental GT a real crapper and, thus, Bentley are overrated? Right?


You dislike BMW. That's all you need to say - if this was the thread for "which manufacturer do you hate". But it isn't - it's "most overrated car" and, while I'd agree that lower end 3/5 series are not the cars the owners think they are and that, if I were buying a new car, I wouldn't consider any BMW as there are offerings from other manufacturers at every price point (which makes them overpriced rather than overrated) which are better looking, better handling, faster, better appointed or simply better prospects and even all of the above. But what they don't know about halo cars isn't worth knowing. Not to mention - love it or hate it - their resurrection of the Mini marque.

You have my condolences.

Amusingly, given the "discussion" which prompted Doug to give up GTP for a while, it's an HDi as well. He never asked...

 

[TVC]

TVC - it's not that anyone cares whether you like BMW or not. I don't like BMW - or the majority of people who I've encountered in the UK who drive them like complete bell ends. It's that you're trying to justify (for some reason) a subjective opinion using objective data that isn't true.

We've already established that they did build a supercar, but you're now comparing a BMW GT car with a Porsche road-going track car on raw pace and handling simply because they cost about the same? Must make the Bentley Continental GT a real crapper and, thus, Bentley are overrated? Right?


if this was the thread for "which manufacturer do you hate". But it isn't - it's "most overrated car" and, while I'd agree that lower end 3/5 series are not the cars the owners think they are and that, if I were buying a new car, I wouldn't consider any BMW as there are offerings from other manufacturers at every price point (which makes them overpriced rather than overrated) which are better looking, better handling, faster, better appointed or simply better prospects and even all of the above. But what they don't know about halo cars isn't worth knowing. Not to mention - love it or hate it - their resurrection of the Mini marque.



Amusingly, given the "discussion" which prompted Doug to give up GTP for a while, it's an HDi as well. He never asked...

If no one cares that I do not like BMW why did 3-4 people respond to my 1 sentence post stating I do not like BMW which started this hole conversation. What is overrated is all a matter of opinion. Some people think new rap is overrated and others love it. I think BMW cars are overrated and other don't. It's as simple as that.

I don't mean to be rude but I honestly do not care what someone has to say about this subject and the only reason I am responding to these posts is because others are.

You can't say me saying BMW is a false statement because there is not way to prove that. You might as well be trying to prove something is ugly because it is just as impossible to do. You can't prove an opinion so it makes no sense to even attempt to say I am right or wrong. I am fine if someone doesn't agree with me but I don't understand why some members feel the need to defend BMW when they have had no physical part in the manufacturing process. If someone here was a designer at BMW I could understand but trying to "prove" BMW is a good company when you have little or no relation to them make little to no sense and is impossible to do.

I said basically the same thing in my last post but I will say it again: I like Porsche. If someone came in this thread (and someone has) and said the 911 is the most overrated car of all time I wouldn't care. That is there opinion. You can't prove it and you can't disprove it so not only is a waste of time to argue because you can't prove them wrong it's also a waste of time to argue because you probably won't be able to change opinion.

I don't get what everyone who has posted in response to my posts in this thread wants me to. Would you be happy if I said "BMW is the greatest company ever?" I don't understand. I thank you guys for taking my opinion so seriously but even I don't think it is that important. The point of the thread is to post a car you think is overrated not try to persuade everyone BMW is the best company there is and nothing can ever beat them. I don't even understand why anyone responded to my one sentence post in the first place. Where they like "WHAT?!!? THIS GUY HATES BMW?! HOW!?!?!? I NEED TO CHANGE HIS OPINION!" It's just a company that does not appeal to me so what more do you want? It's not like me not liking BMW will cause BMW cars to no longer be produced.

You dislike BMW. That's all you need to say

I've said that about 10 or more times and every time I say that someone (not you) feels the need to argue with me on why BMW is so great and that the M3 is extremely fast and the 7 series is terrible and I probably never see BMW's and M series cars are some of the best in the world and BMW is very far ahead of Mercedes and Audi (Which is funny because it's not true).

I thank you though for being one of the few people who did not get mad at me when I said I did not like BMW. I am glad some people here do not take my opinion like it is the most important thing in the world.

Sorry for the bad grammar in this post I didn't bother using commas and everything like that.

 

[Famine]

You can't say me saying BMW is a false statement because there is not way to prove that.

It's not your opinion that is the issue, but the questionable nature of the data (data is objective) you're using to back up your opinion (opinion is subjective). Like the bit about BMW making a supercar when they already did.

Opinion is fine though.

What is overrated is all a matter of opinion.

I'm not wholly sure that's true. After all, to be overrated, somethng must first be rated... Which means it has to have some appeal - so it must have a "good" aspect (even if, as my earlier example of the 106/Saxo, it's an entirely imaginary one).

I think BMW cars are overrated.

I largely agree - much of the lower order of cars are no better than rivals and often significantly more expensive. For the most part they are status symbols playing on the image of the better cars in the range. But they do always have those better cars - and not necessarily just the M-sport range.

Personally, I detest the MINI but I recognise that it is, actually, an impressive bit of engineering and a marketing success - all in all it's a good car. Still hate it though.

 

[homeforsummer]

Okay then I will come up with accurate statements if you are saying I am generally wrong...

A BMW M6 goes 0-60 in 4.4 to 4.5 seconds, has a slalom speed of about 67 MPH, and costs around $102,000. The Porsche GT3 has a 0-60 time of 4.0 seconds and costs $112,000. I am also sure it has a faster Slalom. The GT3 is clearly faster but has a slightly higher price tag. Of course very few people with actually buy either car with no options.

I wasn't talking about performance figures. Anyone can sling numbers at the forum and nobody will contest them. But when you talked about companies not benchmarking using BMWs, or that your dislike was essentially based on the fact they produce no supercar, or that there is nothing really to distinguish a BMW from a bland box, you were effectively pulling statements out of your bottom. Had you not used these reasons for why you thought they were "overrated" and just initially said in your first post "I don't like BMWs", then there wouldn't have been a problem (though you would have been posting in the wrong thread).

For the umpteenth time, nobody cares that you don't like BMW. We start caring when you start trying to pass off subjectivity as objectivity.

Some people think new rap is overrated and others love it.

Bad example. I don't think rap is overrated - I think it's godawful crap. If you'd just said that about BMW then you may have had people disagreement but at least you wouldn't have been trying to pass off your opinion as fact.

I am fine if someone doesn't agree with me but I don't understand why some members feel the need to defend BMW when they have had no physical part in the manufacturing process. If someone here was a designer at BMW I could understand but trying to "prove" BMW is a good company when you have little or no relation to them make little to no sense and is impossible to do.

I've driven BMWs, and I suspect others here have too. As you've still not told us whether you have, I'm still going to go ahead and assume that you haven't, in which case some of us certainly have more relationship with the company than you do. It certainly leaves some of us better "qualified" in our statements as to whether they're any good or not.

BMW is very far ahead of Mercedes and Audi (Which is funny because it's not true).

A large proportion of road test results would say otherwise. I think I mentioned this earlier. Whilst a journalist's opinion should not be treated as Gospel, the chances are they probably know what they're doing given that it's their job and given that they spend a lot more time comparing cars back to back than most other people. Isn't niky a motoring journalist? Maybe he'd be able to shed some light on this...

I thank you [Famine] though for being one of the few people who did not get mad at me when I said I did not like BMW

If you can quote me showing exactly where I got mad at you, I'll happily apologise. However, I can't take responsibility for you throwing your toys out of the pram if I've simply been expressing my disagreement in an eloquent fashion and you don't like that several of us have decided to take issue with what you originally wrote.

I've explained more than well enough the following things:

- I don't care that you don't like BMW
- I do care if you start making stuff up to illustrate your point. This is annoying whoever does it, so don't take it personally. But nobody wants to be associated with good ol' Forza2.0 and that's exactly what this thread has felt like over the past couple of pages.

 

[McLaren]

If someone here was a designer at BMW I could understand but trying to "prove" BMW is a good company when you have little or no relation to them make little to no sense and is impossible to do.

While none of us are designers at BMW, there are plenty of us here on this board whom are owners, & all of us take our cars as proof enough that BMW is a great company. Nobody will ever tell me different after my experience with the manufacturer.

 

[jergto]

x2 on the GTR, it seemed to be multiplied by the GTR fanboys.
e46 m3, it was good at taking corners, but for 60k brand new i would LOVE to be a little bit quicker.

 

[McLaren]

x2 on the GTR, it seemed to be multiplied by the GTR fanboys.
e46 m3, it was good at taking corners, but for 60k brand new i would LOVE to be a little bit quicker.

E46 models started at $53K if I recall my quote & BMW's USA website. $53K got you more than just speed, though.