What's everyones problem with ABS?

[JDMKING13]

I've been playing (DS3 user) GT5 with ABS off since day one after my very first race. I found the game extremely easy with ABS on 1 so off it went. I thought I was going to have a disadvantage online but I was proven wrong. I've won many races, lost many races and had a lot of close finishes. One thing I noticed while watching many online replays is that I was the only one that never slammed the brakes and braked late. This, I believe, is why many people don't play with ABS off because while playing with it on, they've gotten those bad habits (slamming the brakes/late braking) then when they try ABS off, its really hard for them. I would like to end by saying that it isn't impossible to play with it off. Just adjust your braking point, brake in a straight line and most importantly don't slam the brakes. Also, you'll have 100% control of your brakes (well atleast for me it feels that way after I accidentally left it on in an online race and noticed how I couldn't make the car brake how I wanted it to brake).

Nice post man! We had some good time attack on Clubman 5(NO ABS) I agree with you I remember when we both wished PD would give us the ability to restrict ABS off. 👍

 

[Gejabo]

I don't care if anybody uses any aids.
It's just when you get beat by some one with ASM, SRF, full brake assist and steer assist.
And they start bragging on how good they are.
Then I get a little agitated.

But I have no problem with ABS or TCM .
I use ABS at 1.

If that makes my a noob so be it.
I've played all GT games the way I liked it.
And I'm not going to let anyone tell me how to play them

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

Well, about 2 weeks back I (not using aids or abs) end up in a f1 lobby with Rubbish. Others are using aids so being the hero I am I say"turn off aids". Rubbish then said " I don't care. It only slows you down", and proceeded to soundly beat everyone as usual. Me? I lost badly.

 

[CSLACR]

Well, about 2 weeks back I (not using aids or abs) end up in a f1 lobby with Rubbish. Others are using aids so being the hero I am I say"turn off aids". Rubbish then said " I don't care. It only slows you down", and proceeded to soundly beat everyone as usual. Me? I lost badly.

SRF is the only aid that improves speed, that much is very true.
TCS, and AS can arguably help an inconsistent driver through the length of a race, depending on their skill level, but for good drivers, they're simply useless.
ABS is the hot topic, I'll agree it can help over a long race, but I strongly disagree it's a huge deal, mostly due to equipment. The pedal resistance is a joke on the DFGT, let alone trying it with thumbs, not to say either is impossible, just entirely to hard compared to what it should be, for not enough reason. Another issue is pedal travel, on my DFGT my brakes only activate around 25% travel, and then overly-quickly get very close to full braking pressure (80% or more) at around 60% travel.
Driving without ABS in GT5 is much more about learning where to put the pedal/thumb stick on your controller then it is anything else, and for that reason I just don't see the big deal, and I fail to be impressed by it.

If the controller situation is/were different I'd definitely see things differently though.

 

[Andy89]

SRF is the only aid that improves speed, that much is very true.
TCS, and AS can arguably help an inconsistent driver through the length of a race, depending on their skill level, but for good drivers, they're simply useless.
ABS is the hot topic, I'll agree it can help over a long race, but I strongly disagree it's a huge deal, mostly due to equipment. The pedal resistance is a joke on the DFGT, let alone trying it with thumbs, not to say either is impossible, just entirely to hard compared to what it should be, for not enough reason. Another issue is pedal travel, on my DFGT my brakes only activate around 25% travel, and then overly-quickly get very close to full braking pressure (80% or more) at around 60% travel.
Driving without ABS in GT5 is much more about learning where to put the pedal/thumb stick on your controller then it is anything else, and for that reason I just don't see the big deal, and I fail to be impressed by it.

If the controller situation is/were different I'd definitely see things differently though.

That's the reason why I play with ABS 1. Plus not everybody have all the day to play the game, and in that little time I can invest in the game, I prefer to relax and enjoy the game. And all the "slam pedal" thing is just exagerated, especially after patch 2.0, even with abs at 1 you can end up understeering or spinning out if you brake too much in the corner entry. Take the Mclaren F1 '94 (abs 1), go to the ring ang try to slam the brake pedal before turn 1, you can notice that it's not the best way to do it even with abs on.

 

[skazz]

Fanatec clubsport pedals use a load cell and have a vibration motor which can be set to vibrate at a particular percentage of braking force to simulate tyres locking up (in PC games it can be driven from software to vibrate when the tyres actually are locking up, sadly this can't be done in GT5). It makes threshold braking so much easier when you have that much control over your braking, very effective.

Personally I play all PC sims and Forza without ABS, but haven't been very impressed by GT5's rendition of ABS - it feels like a flip-switch to go from full grip to no grip without ABS, whereas in other games you can just lock up a single front tyre and modulate your braking in time to avoid skidding off the road.

Then again, maybe the problem is just that GT5 default brake balance for all cars is tuned for ABS on, and I've neglected to tune the brake balance properly for no ABS. I will put some time into testing

 

[QB1o]

I think a lot of people who play online will never drive without ABS because the fact is that 90% of them won't even drive a car without soft racing slicks.

I've neglected to tune the brake balance properly for no ABS

4 front and 1 back. it makes everything better!

 

[uMadson?]

I always had it set at 1.

I may try having it at 0 though, for a proper simulation for ABS-less cars...

 

[avens]

Until the brake pedals have accurate force feedback, then I have no problem with in game ABS. It may not be realistic to real ABS, but braking in the game is nothing like braking in a car either, not even close. I always use 1 myself, never change it.

The problem many people have with ABS is they are part of the "mine's bigger than yours crowd" who think they are better because they don't use it. Simple as that. Same with all driving aids really. Even though I drive with all aids off other than ABS, I still find the room hosts who shut everything down to limit the way others drive to be somewhat arrogant. The only aids in game I think are truly aids are SRF and the driving line to some extent. The rest are more what fits your individual style, ABS included. Some like the flashing gear indicator are probably more of a hindrance than a help.

Other than Karts (obviously) there has never been a time trial where the leaders had ABS to zero either so it's obviously faster.

it has another use too: it scares away kids from staying on an online room. Same goes for restricting racing tires.
If it was possible I'd restrict using a ds3 as well.

and I've seen TTs in which some top10 players use ABS 0.

 

[OK8]

Another issue is pedal travel, on my DFGT my brakes only activate around 25% travel, and then overly-quickly get very close to full braking pressure (80% or more) at around 60% travel.

Isn't this exactly how real brake pedals work? At first there's nothing and then suddenly you it goes all stiff and brake pressure rises exponentially. All you need to do is add some resistance and you'll soon get the feel for it.

Driving without ABS in GT5 is much more about learning where to put the pedal/thumb stick on your controller than it is anything else, and for that reason I just don't see the big deal, and I fail to be impressed by it.

If the controller situation is/were different I'd definitely see things differently though.

Braking without ABS isn't about finding the point where the brakes lock and then developing some superhuman ability to move your foot within a millimetre of that point at each braking point. The point in which the brakes lock changes all the time anyway depending on your speed, the surface you're on and the way the weight of the car is moving.

I know it's not the best example but look at the brake bar in this video:


You can develop an ability to hear, see and feel the situation of the tyres. After this it's not so hard to brake without ABS even using a DS3 (when I play with DS3 I use the thumbstick for braking. I can imagine it can be quite difficult with buttons though, but not with the triggers or thumbstick).

Personally I play all PC sims and Forza without ABS, but haven't been very impressed by GT5's rendition of ABS - it feels like a flip-switch to go from full grip to no grip without ABS, whereas in other games you can just lock up a single front tyre and modulate your braking in time to avoid skidding off the road.

Then again, maybe the problem is just that GT5 default brake balance for all cars is tuned for ABS on, and I've neglected to tune the brake balance properly for no ABS. I will put some time into testing

I've played a lot LFS and after the patch in Gt5 I can say the braking feel is much closer to it. The way your speed affects the amount of brake pressure you can apply has really changed and you can lock only one front wheel if you're in a part with camber or you're braking hard while slightly turning and one of the front wheels goes lighter than the other.

The reason you've experienced this snap from grip to no grip is the fact that you've been driving with 5/5 brake balance. Try it with 4/1 and it'll feel much better 👍.

 

[novcze]

Except even my G27's brake pedal offers zero feedback, from top to bottom it's the same as far as pressure required to depress it. At least with a hydraulic system in a car just the increasing pressure as your foot goes to the floor is something that tells you when you're about to apply too much pressure, and then when you've gone too far it pulsates as the ABS does it's thing.

These are advantages in a regular car that you can't get from a video game. Concessions have to be made due to the complete lack of feel.

👍

edit:
just note, ABS 1 doesn't mean you just slam brake pedal. I modulate braking properly, because if ABS kicks in, your braking distance is increased. Of course that is better than locking brakes and crashing into another car.

 

[Short Bus]

ABS 1 doesn't mean you just slam brake pedal. I modulate breaking properly, because if ABS kicks in, your breaking distance is increased. Of course that is better than locking brakes and crashing into another car.

THIS

I don't understand why there's this idea that using ABS means the player lacks braking skill. The car will still spin out if it's prone to do so, or understeer off the track if you don't use the brakes properly. You can't just slam the pedal to the floor and expect the car to go where the front wheels are pointed.

Because of this thread I decided to give the no ABS thing a try. I used a variety of cars with a variety of drivetrain layouts and horsepower levels on a number of different tracks. In the end I found that in order to get anything close to a realistic feel the brakes had to be adjusted to 4:1 or 4:2 F:R.

But even then, "realistic" is not a word I would use to describe the experience. First of all, the act of adjusting your brake bias in a stock car is entirely unrealistic. Second, even with the bias adjusted to "driveable" all the cars I sampled showed a terribly unrealistic eagerness to spin out while on the brakes.

Are there cars out there that are tail happy on the brakes? You-betcha. Are they the exception or are they the rule? They're the exception.

In effect, by doing this, you've made every single car in the game handle like every stock class American autocrosser *wishes* their car handled, and how every non-stock class autocrosser tries to make their car handle..... loose on the brakes.

I can appreciate why some would prefer to drive without ABS. Because it injects some difficulty where this game desperately needs some. It does take more skill to get a car around a track quickly without ABS, as it does in real life.

But at the same time, if you're going for realism, with ABS set to 1 the cars behave closer to how they do in the real world; as in they tend to default to understeer but will rotate with a smooth, light touch.

Just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

 

[OK8]

👍

edit:
just note, ABS 1 doesn't mean you just slam brake pedal. I modulate breaking properly, because if ABS kicks in, your breaking distance is increased. Of course that is better than locking brakes and crashing into another car.

What is the correct way to brake in a straight line with ABS? How do you brake for example the first chicane at Monza?

 

[omgitsbees]

GT5 is the only sim, for whatever reason, that I can't play with ABS turned off. The way the cars behave with ABS turned off in GT5, just does not feel right at all to me. So like a lot of people here, I leave it at ABS 1. Other racing sims I play include Forza 4, iRacing, NetKar Pro, and Live for Speed, I don't play with assists on any of those (iRacing has no assists anyways, it even forces manual transmission on you).

 

[shirakawaa]

GT5 is the only sim, for whatever reason,[...]

The main reason is that cars come by default with a 50-50 brake distribution, a big problem which the ABS, as it is in GT5 (again, because its performance is not based on anything existing in real life), hides.

 

[avens]

THIS

I don't understand why there's this idea that using ABS means the player lacks braking skill. The car will still spin out if it's prone to do so, or understeer off the track if you don't use the brakes properly. You can't just slam the pedal to the floor and expect the car to go where the front wheels are pointed.

Because of this thread I decided to give the no ABS thing a try. I used a variety of cars with a variety of drivetrain layouts and horsepower levels on a number of different tracks. In the end I found that in order to get anything close to a realistic feel the brakes had to be adjusted to 4:1 or 4:2 F:R.

But even then, "realistic" is not a word I would use to describe the experience. First of all, the act of adjusting your brake bias in a stock car is entirely unrealistic. Second, even with the bias adjusted to "driveable" all the cars I sampled showed a terribly unrealistic eagerness to spin out while on the brakes.

Are there cars out there that are tail happy on the brakes? You-betcha. Are they the exception or are they the rule? They're the exception.

In effect, by doing this, you've made every single car in the game handle like every stock class American autocrosser *wishes* their car handled, and how every non-stock class autocrosser tries to make their car handle..... loose on the brakes.

I can appreciate why some would prefer to drive without ABS. Because it injects some difficulty where this game desperately needs some. It does take more skill to get a car around a track quickly without ABS, as it does in real life.

But at the same time, if you're going for realism, with ABS set to 1 the cars behave closer to how they do in the real world; as in they tend to default to understeer but will rotate with a smooth, light touch.

Just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

that's how ABS works in real life cars. In GT5 it activates at the very moment you press the pedal, and it also increases stability when braking so much that it is considered to have a hidden ASM assist.

Watch some replays in TTs and you'll see that everyone just slam the brakes before slow corners, and release it immediately without any modulation whatsoever.

if GT6 is going for the realistic approach it should only allow ABS in daily driver cars, because there isn't in most racing cars. That way PD can focus on the huge distinction between road legal cars and how racing cars behave in every aspect (or at least how it looks on TV lol. I think no one here has driven a vehicle over 270 km/h or makes a living out of performing in a truly pro racing category)

 

[OK8]

GT5 is the only sim, for whatever reason, that I can't play with ABS turned off. The way the cars behave with ABS turned off in GT5, just does not feel right at all to me. So like a lot of people here, I leave it at ABS 1. Other racing sims I play include Forza 4, iRacing, NetKar Pro, and Live for Speed, I don't play with assists on any of those (iRacing has no assists anyways, it even forces manual transmission on you).

I play a lot of Live for Speed and with 4:1 brake balance the GT5 braking feel is similar in my opinion.

 

[matty_234]

I play a lot of Live for Speed and with 4:1 brake balance the GT5 braking feel is similar in my opinion.

Agreed, you can feel when the car is locking up and adjust accordingly.

 

[omgitsbees]

I play a lot of Live for Speed and with 4:1 brake balance the GT5 braking feel is similar in my opinion.

I saw that other people suggested this too, in this thread. So i'm going to give this a try and see how it goes.

 

[STVBDKD]

Yeah agree with you about the abs even race cars uses it

 

[novcze]

What is the correct way to brake in a straight line with ABS? How do you brake for example the first chicane at Monza?

Brake pedal around 85% will do the job, maybe less I don't look at it, but I wouldn't call it correct way, it's just me. On Monza I will go with increased braking distance in favour of precision.

 

[SavageEvil]

Nothing wrong with ABS in GT5 really, it's quite helpful as it keeps your car in line when braking hard from high speeds. Recently I got bored of using ABS 1 so I switched it off and now have to set each cars' brake pressure depending on it's weight and drive line. Majority of my cars run with 2/1 set up but some I run with 1/0. The fun thing is I use Sport tires because of their smoother grip loss transition and just like OK8 has said braking pressure changes depending on speed, when I played with ABS 1 you could go full braking but you would have to back off as your speed goes down so you could have tire grip to turn. With ABS 0 I go full braking until my speed drop to 90 and then begin backing off, listening to the sounds of the tires for audio cues. This is pretty interesting to me since it gives me something else to pay attention to, while not the most realistic thing the way the brakes act under pressure is correct.

I think that many people have no idea how ABS works, or what it does. ABS not only helps keeps your brakes from locking up under heavy braking, it also adjust and distributes braking power to all 4 wheels to prevent the car from stepping out of line. ABS on real cars pretty much doesn't activate unless you are at a low enough speed to cause brake lock up, at high speeds this doesn't happen because brakes only slow you down enough until the pressure in the brakes is more than the inertia of the rotating wheels. When have you ever seen a high speed brake lock up situation?

What PD needs to do next is allow us to change the sensitivity of the triggers on the DS3, while they are at it get some drivers for our wheels that allow us to fine tune our pedals to our own liking. ABS 0 isn't as bad as people think, it isn't for everyone but it does require a great deal of attention and will definitely make you a much smoother driver.

 

[Short Bus]

that's how ABS works in real life cars. In GT5 it activates at the very moment you press the pedal, and it also increases stability when braking so much that it is considered to have a hidden ASM assist.

Watch some replays in TTs and you'll see that everyone just slam the brakes before slow corners, and release it immediately without any modulation whatsoever.

if GT6 is going for the realistic approach it should only allow ABS in daily driver cars, because there isn't in most racing cars. That way PD can focus on the huge distinction between road legal cars and how racing cars behave in every aspect (or at least how it looks on TV lol. I think no one here has driven a vehicle over 270 km/h or makes a living out of performing in a truly pro racing category)

I don't know if there's a "hidden ASM" function or not, all I know is that with ABS set to 1 it feels like most cars handle more true to life on the brakes than they do with it turned off. ABS by itself increases stability under braking anyway.

As far as how people are using ABS in races and TTs, yes if you're only braking in a straight line the fastest way to stop with ABS is usually by pushing the pedal to the point where ABS engages. Yes, it takes more skill to slow down without ABS (duh). It should go without saying that in the real world, and in this game, driving fast without ABS is more difficult.

My skill comment had more to do with how you use the brakes while you're trail braking. If you're trailing the brakes in to the apex, using the brakes with ABS 1 still requires a skillful touch. This is where no ABS becomes painful, because a lot of cars I drove, even with the brake balance adjusted and using a smooth, deliberate hand, wanted to throw their rear bumper at a tire wall. But with ABS set to 1, if you're too hard on the brakes or turn the steering wheel too fast most cars will understeer, which is what most real cars do.

I thought driving without ABS was fun in it's own way, with certain cars. I think I would really enjoy it if the handling of cars that didn't come from the factory with ABS was true to life. Like if GT forced you to drive without ABS if you chose an old car from before ABS essentially became standard on new vehicles.

 

[Stephen220378]

I use it set at 1 for the simple reason that if you're using a DS3 then you have to have an extremely light touch to drive with ABS off and that's a difficult thing to do when you're racing. As SavageEvil said, we need sensitivity settings for the trigger buttons because as it stands they are way too over sensitive, so until that happens my ABS will always be set at 1.

 

[GT6mebe]

I find it is very hard to get optimal braking not (not too soft that you miss the apex or too hard that your brakes lock up) when ABS is 0 when using the DS3.

 

[SAFFY]

People generally look for something to complain about , there isn't a solution for such complaining. If I buy a game with my hard earned money, the last thing I would like to hear is someone telling me how to play, what to use or what not to use!!!!!

 

[Roryblack444]

I have never used ABS in GT5, and since I have never adjusted them, I guess they're set at 5/5. I have never really had a problem with braking in GT5, consider myself a late braker, I do a lot of passing under braking.

I have also played years of NASCAR games, full season, 50% race length, no assists... And braking in NASCAR requires finesse.

So IMHO, if you really want to get good at braking without ABS, play some NASCAR at tracks like Phoenix, Richmond, Darlington... And you learn quick where you will lock up by how far you push the pedal. I should know, 7 years using a DFP, horrible pedals...G27 pedals are heaven compared to them now.

 

[Short Bus]

I have never used ABS in GT5, and since I have never adjusted them, I guess they're set at 5/5. I have never really had a problem with braking in GT5, consider myself a late braker, I do a lot of passing under braking.

I to your skills. That's awesome.

 

[zevehcj]

I have never used ABS in GT5, and since I have never adjusted them, I guess they're set at 5/5. I have never really had a problem with braking in GT5, consider myself a late braker, I do a lot of passing under braking.

I have also played years of NASCAR games, full season, 50% race length, no assists... And braking in NASCAR requires finesse.

So IMHO, if you really want to get good at braking without ABS, play some NASCAR at tracks like Phoenix, Richmond, Darlington... And you learn quick where you will lock up by how far you push the pedal. I should know, 7 years using a DFP, horrible pedals...G27 pedals are heaven compared to them now.

Me too. I have never adjusted the brake bias for any of the cars. Plus, since all of my cars are stock, I've never adjusted their suspension, aerodynamics, LSD, transmissions etc. Actually, I've only adjusted the transmissions on the LMP cars because I don't really need them to go 236mph+ on all the tracks except Circuit de la Sarthe.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

No problem here with both, never use the other one, and use the other ( ABS 0 ) with no issue :

Ferrari 458 Italia at Monza Rain, 2:07.xxx-Comfort Medium



Cobra 427 at Cote D' Azure, 1:44.776-Sports Soft



Ferrari 599 at London Reverse, 1:04.077-Comfort Medium



Maserati GranTurismo S '08 at Motegi Full Road Course, 2:22.683-Comfort Medium



McLaren F1 '94 at Suzuka, 2:28.438-Comfort Medium



Lancia Stratos '73 at Nurburgring GP/F, 2:47.090 - Comfort Hard




Lamborghini Countach 25Th Anniversary '88 at Rome, 1:23.518 - Comfort Medium




Dodge Viper GTS '02 at Road Course Daytona, 2:10.372-Comfort Medium



Chevrolet Camaro SS '10 Twin Turbo 800+HP at Spa 2:44.019-Comfort Soft