What's the point of Red Bull challenge?

[Zoom!Zoom!]

How many people here think they could do the Vettel Challenge while riding a roller coaster the whole time? There is difference between just sitting there and take the G forces (like a roller coaster) and trying to drive the car and keep it on the track with the G's.

 

[Verbal]

How many people here think they could do the Vettel Challenge while riding a roller coaster the whole time? There is difference between just sitting there and take the G forces (like a roller coaster) and trying to drive the car and keep it on the track with the G's.

The question (and no, I don't pretend to know the answer) is not really whether people here could do that, but if you could train, say, a Mr. Vettel to do it. Yes, the X1's proposed performance figures are insane, but so are to a large extent those of a F1 car. In fast corners a F1 will do 5-6 g, and those guys drive the things for two hours. So would it be completely out of the question for a human being to endure at least a few laps in the X1?

 

[RikkiGT-R]

All I know is - I can't do it in the game (yet), and wouldn't be able to do it in real life

 

[Morphisor]

The question (and no, I don't pretend to know the answer) is not really whether people here could do that, but if you could train, say, a Mr. Vettel to do it. Yes, the X1's proposed performance figures are insane, but so are to a large extent those of a F1 car. In fast corners a F1 will do 5-6 g, and those guys drive the things for two hours. So would it be completely out of the question for a human being to endure at least a few laps in the X1?

Competitively, I'd say yes. You have to keep in mind that current F1 drivers train 7 days a week to be able to finish a race without slipping away.
They are some of the fittest people on this planet, and a race takes up just about all the energy they got.

Driving this X2010 would require MUCH higher levels of continuous concentration and physical strength due to the sheer speed and higher G's.
In this sense, yes a trained F1 driver could drive it, but definitely not at it's proper speed.

 

[Samus]

People are going on about the G-Forces and what they do to the driver and seem to be ignoring the fact there are no tyres on earth that could cope with that ammount of lateral force for a prolonged time. That's the main thing stopping this being real.

 

[Nerdbuster]

OK, I see some people are positive about Red Bull challenge. But my real worry is that if X1 is OK for GT 5, then why not a flying car in GT 6 and Transformers in GT 7? I became a GT series fan because they are very realistic driving simulator games. I don't want Japanese Cantoonish feel in the game.

 

[GT Motion]

People are going on about the G-Forces and what they do to the driver and seem to be ignoring the fact there are no tyres on earth that could cope with that ammount of lateral force for a prolonged time. That's the main thing stopping this being real.

Good point, I also mentioned earlier that the aerodynamics would most likely lose suction if they hopped a curb even once the way the car is designed.

You're effectively saying that astronauts and fighter pilots talk **** when they talk about 16+ G's, think the amount of G's the SR71 pilots must have experienced dodging missiles above the USSR... and don't even bother arguing against this, its a documented fact, although they outran missiles at first, later on they had to dodge the missiles, so don't go saying that 10-16G is impossible because its not.

How many corners are there at the ring? Thats how many missiles in a row they would have to dodge...think about it.

 

[GTShadowKing]

OK, I see some people are positive about Red Bull challenge. But my real worry is that if X1 is OK for GT 5, then why not a flying car in GT 6 and Transformers in GT 7? I became a GT series fan because they are very realistic driving simulator games. I don't want Japanese Cantoonish feel in the game.

I don't think that the X2010 is bad, it's actually fun to drive often
But the Sebastian Vettel Challenge...that is stupid, because of a simple reason, you can not win it with a DS3. IT'S NOT FAIR
Do I have to buy a good wheel just to win that s**t? I don't think so

 

[Morphisor]

I don't think that the X2010 is bad, it's actually fun to drive often
But the Sebastian Vettel Challenge...that is stupid, because of a simple reason, you can not win it with a DS3. IT'S NOT FAIR
Do I have to buy a good wheel just to win that s**t? I don't think so

Next you'll be complaining about losing to a wheel user online...

Everyone has a different setup and you're unhappy at the fact a racing game provides for people actually using racing setups?
The world is unfair, and it's called capitalism. I suggest you live with it

 

[Verbal]

People are going on about the G-Forces and what they do to the driver and seem to be ignoring the fact there are no tyres on earth that could cope with that ammount of lateral force for a prolonged time. That's the main thing stopping this being real.

Cornering forces of a 615 kg X1 at 8.25 g would be about 30% higher than a fueled up LMP car at 4 g or 37% more than a F1 at 5 g. Doesn't sound like that would be out of reach for current technology.

 

[Instrumental]

Next you'll be complaining about losing to a wheel user online...

This comparison doesn't even make sense. Online play isn't necessary to complete the game.

Everyone has a different setup and you're unhappy at the fact a racing game provides for people actually using racing setups?

Uh no, if you actually understood what he said, he's unhappy at the fact that it doesn't cater to people who use the primary controls for the system.

Me too. It's ridiculous to design a game that can't be fully completed with the primary controls. At the very least it should be advertised as such.

 

[NFSCARBON1]

Technology eventually could make a car much faster than an X2010. Tyres wouldn't be a problem as it's likely enough downforce could be created to negate the need for grippy tyres. The only problem would be the Driver. G-Forces aside it is unlikely a driver would be able to react quick enough to control the car, and any driver error would have disasterous results. If a computer drove the car then i could see times of under 3 minutes achievable on the Nordshliefe.

 

[GTShadowKing]

Next you'll be complaining about losing to a wheel user online...

Everyone has a different setup and you're unhappy at the fact a racing game provides for people actually using racing setups?
The world is unfair, and it's called capitalism. I suggest you live with it

You stated two different things friend. Complaining about losing with a guy that is using a wheel, that's stupid, because is a PvP question. But i'm talking about in-game challenges (made by the company). It should be done to be challenging but possible with a controller, because most people use it. And if you are lucky having money to buy a wheel, congrats to you, but at least I cannot. But I understand your point

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Technology eventually could make a car much faster than an X2010. Tyres wouldn't be a problem as it's likely enough downforce could be created to negate the need for grippy tyres. The only problem would be the Driver. G-Forces aside it is unlikely a driver would be able to react quick enough to control the car, and any driver error would have disasterous results. If a computer drove the car then i could see times of under 3 minutes achievable on the Nordshliefe.

Tire physics are complex. Increasing down force in order get more grip from the tires means a lot more pressure the tires has to handle. Tires has to be soft enough in order to stretch but strong enough not to blow with the every increasing pressure and heat. I would imagine the forces on tires dealing 8 G's will be sharply increased compared to handling 5 G.

Cornering forces of a 615 kg X1 at 8.25 g would be about 30% higher than a fueled up LMP car at 4 g or 37% more than a F1 at 5 g. Doesn't sound like that would be out of reach for current technology.

I didn't know F1 and LMP cars were hold back from using the most up-to-date tire technology. I did know F1 has two types of tires though. I would think increasing today's tire performance to 30% would be like trying to increase the world's fastest car speed by 30%.

 

[Samus]

Cornering forces of a 615 kg X1 at 8.25 g would be about 30% higher than a fueled up LMP car at 4 g or 37% more than a F1 at 5 g. Doesn't sound like that would be out of reach for current technology.

It's not all about G in terms of the tyres though, it's the lateral load and strain on the rubber compound. Most tracks the car is running around at 180mph+, even in the corners. Just compare the speed you're taking corners with the X2010 compared to an F1 car and the extra friction that would generate. Even the hardest compound would be shredded after a couple of laps.

 

[NFSCARBON1]

Tire physics are complex. Increasing down force in order get more grip from the tires means a lot more pressure the tires has to handle. Tires has to be soft enough in order to stretch but strong enough not to blow with the every increasing pressure and heat. I would imagine the forces on tires dealing 8 G's will be sharply increased compared to handling 5 G.
.

What if solid tyres were used (like on land speed record cars)?

 

[GhostBoy]

The point of X Challenge is to provide you with skills needed to drive Red Bull X2010.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

What if solid tyres were used (like on land speed record cars)?

Solid tires would work as long as you went straight but going around the corners you will not have enough tire contacting the road.

 

[Wolf-M]

I am all for a challenge, but surely the OP is referring to the X2010 actually being in the game in the first place not how difficult it is ?

If you cannot gold it with a DS3 - then that implies GT5 is for wheel users only which is probaby not a good long term strategy for sales. GT5 likes to be positioned as a serious SIM but to take the X2010 seriously ? If you remove Adrian Newey's name, you would all be acussing Kaz of playing too much Wipeout.

I can see the attraction that some people may have for the X2010, but I do not see its place in the GT world.

True, but if one does not like the X2010, couldn't he/she simply ignore the challenge and continue to enjoy the rest of the game?

I've spent almost 2 hours before I bronzed all three events, which I was at that moment truly exhilarated, but since then I've never ever driven my X2010, not even once.

 

[porsche 9146]

in reality, a car with that much downforce couldn't run 275 MPH with only 1500 horsepower unless it had horribly long gearing, and at the same time, the car couldn't keep that much downforce constantly like it does in the game because the vaccuum effect would not be constant. this isn't even going into the challenge of driving it.

in other words, it just isn't possible. at least the X1's better than the nike car.

 

[chippy1000]

Tire physics are complex. Increasing down force in order get more grip from the tires means a lot more pressure the tires has to handle. Tires has to be soft enough in order to stretch but strong enough not to blow with the every increasing pressure and heat. I would imagine the forces on tires dealing 8 G's will be sharply increased compared to handling 5 G.

I didn't know F1 and LMP cars were hold back from using the most up-to-date tire technology. I did know F1 has two types of tires though. I would think increasing today's tire performance to 30% would be like trying to increase the world's fastest car speed by 30%.

F1 tyre technology is the most up to date I'm sure but the tyres they use are designed to dergrade after a certain percent of the race, there is no reason to say that the tyre technology isn't up to scratch for the X1.

 

[JediRage]

So you didn't see the photo's of Adrian Newey and Kaz together working on it.

Oh please, that clip looked like it was choreographed from start to finish. There must've been a director in his fancy chair shouting 'Lights, Camera, Action!" and then Newey and his henchman would start talking, and Yamauchi would nod with a serious look on his face. And then "Cut!".

I bought this nonsense when I saw the 'Beyond the Apex' program in GT5P where Yamauchi is telling a PD programmer working on some AI on Daytona that he "... want it to be just perfect", a few hours before TGS.

Please don't be naive and think R&D/potentially leagal stuff like this is going to be videotaped and shown to the general public.

And while we are at it, Red Bull worshipping on this website is getting incredulous. They have won one constructors championship in F1. Only one. Wait till they become a permanent powerhouse before putting them on a pedestal.

 

[Gohon]

in reality, a car with that much downforce couldn't run 275 MPH with only 1500 horsepower unless it had horribly long gearing, and at the same time, the car couldn't keep that much downforce constantly like it does in the game because the vaccuum effect would not be constant. this isn't even going into the challenge of driving it.

in other words, it just isn't possible. at least the X1's better than the nike car.

A lot of the downforce for the X1 comes from reducing the pressure underneath the car by making the air move faster relative to the car. This gives downforce without drag so it possible to do 275mph. Over 300mph in a slip stream

 

[Wolf-M]

Oh please, that clip looked like it was choreographed from start to finish. There must've been a director in his fancy chair shouting 'Lights, Camera, Action!" and then Newey and his henchman would start talking, and Yamauchi would nod with a serious look on his face. And then "Cut!".

I bought this nonsense when I saw the 'Beyond the Apex' program in GT5P where Yamauchi is telling a PD programmer working on some AI on Daytona that he "... want it to be just perfect", a few hours before TGS.

Please don't be naive and think R&D/potentially leagal stuff like this is going to be videotaped and shown to the general public.

And while we are at it, Red Bull worshipping on this website is getting incredulous. They have won one constructors championship in F1. Only one. Wait till they become a permanent powerhouse before putting them on a pedestal.

So true.

Just because that there was a photo showing Newey's involvement doesn't show anything. It's all marketing strategy.

 

[Greycap]

True, but if one does not like the X2010, couldn't he/she simply ignore the challenge and continue to enjoy the rest of the game?

With the mindset many people seem to have, no. Seemingly everyone has to be able to gold everything and preferably not have to break a sweat at that. Phrases such as "not being fast enough", "needing more practice" and "admitting something is too hard for one's skill level" aren't really fashionable nowadays.

 

[chippy1000]

So just because you guys says he isn't involved doesn't make that true, I think you guys who think it was only for PR are the naive ones.
And winning the WDC and WCC after only 5 years in F1 is really powerhouse stuff

 

[Samus]

I don't think anyone was claiming Adrian Newey or Red Bull had nothing to do with the X2010. All they were saying is that there is no way they fully completed the design for it as if it was going to be the car for next season in F1. Newey likely did the design and decided what components it would theoretically have, and the theoretical performance but there is no way on earth they wasted hours of their time fully creating plans of all the individual parts, the suspension models, the drive system, the actual fan system and how it would really work under all conditions.

Think about designing a real F1 car, watch some documentaries. It takes months, with each individual part planned out and designed to work together. It's then extensively tested (on it's own, not on the track) and then put together in simulations. Again, that takes hundreds of hours, time that the Red Bull team just wouldn't have to spare.

They likely just put it all together as a theory of what was possible, told PD what it theoretically could do and gave that data to PD.

 

[chippy1000]

Yes I agree he probably just gcame up with the initial design and let PD work on the finer details. Also I am an F1 fan so I do realize the sort of work that goes into building these sort of cars.

 

[Morphisor]

This comparison doesn't even make sense. Online play isn't necessary to complete the game.

Game completion for GT5 is a rather stupid notion, but that's besides the point. The point is the comparison between wheel and controller.
Nobody with a controller can hope to pilot the X2010 consistently succesfully. So why then should the challenge be made easy enough?

I'll give you this though, a separate challenge for wheel and controller users would have been more fitting.

Uh no, if you actually understood what he said, he's unhappy at the fact that it doesn't cater to people who use the primary controls for the system.

Me too. It's ridiculous to design a game that can't be fully completed with the primary controls. At the very least it should be advertised as such.

You stated two different things friend. Complaining about losing with a guy that is using a wheel, that's stupid, because is a PvP question. But i'm talking about in-game challenges (made by the company). It should be done to be challenging but possible with a controller, because most people use it. And if you are lucky having money to buy a wheel, congrats to you, but at least I cannot. But I understand your point

Why is a PvP question not an in-game challenge? With the current amount of a-spec content I dare say that online is actually the bigger part of the game, and more important to a whole lot of people.

No I do not have a wheel, I wish I did. But I think it's perfectly fair that the game can't be optimally enjoyed with a mere controller.
You cannot except to have a proper driving sim which is catered for controllers - it would result in different handling characteristics.

Me, I just bide my time till maybe somehow someday I get a nice wheel for gt5, and meanwhile just accept the fact that I will never be succesful with super-fast cars.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Yes I agree he probably just gcame up with the initial design and let PD work on the finer details. Also I am an F1 fan so I do realize the sort of work that goes into building these sort of cars.

It's probably more simple than that. They may have come up with the look and "what if" tech and PD just change a few numbers to give the tires super glue grip. (kind of like a cheat) A clue of this is this car has more grip on grass than most cars on pavement in the GT5. Sims have enough trouble trying to simulate tires using well known data I seriously doubt they wasted too much time trying to simulate a fantasy car. This car belongs in Sci Fi just like Wormholes and traveling at light speed.