White Privilege

[Danoff]

That said. In an ideal world it should not be taken as offensive, because in an ideal world everybody is good natured, but in reality it just isnt.

Yes I know that not everything is good natured. It's not required that everything be good natured or the world to be ideal for us to live in a world where blackface isn't automatically assumed to be with bad intent.

 

[ryzno]

In my perception it looks like mocking (regardless of intent), but it apparantly doesnt to you. So that is what I mean in difference in intent is often irrelevant.

I wouldn't doubt they are mocking him. But the intent is relevant. If it's a bunch of friends that have been drinking and do show they appreciate their Asian friend albeit somewhat rude and he isn't offended I don't know why we should be.

 

[PocketZeven]

Yes I know that not everything is good natured. It's not required that everything be good natured or the world to be ideal for us to live in a world where blackface isn't automatically assumed to be with bad intent.

Well perhaps you understand a little better how something that is done in good intent is still often perceived and taken in offense?

That said I agree fully with your point when you apply it to the controversy around "whitewashing" in hollywood. You could make a case that more diverse actors should be given a chance to play important characters in a movie. But hollywood is still a business and casts people on the basis of the best actor for the job and make the movie profitable. If they cast a white person to a clear minority role I understand the controversy. But if the actor convincily can pull off acting like a minority it shouldnt be taken in offense.

I wouldn't doubt they are mocking him. But the intent is relevant. If it's a bunch of friends that have been drinking and do show they appreciate their Asian friend albeit somewhat rude and he isn't offended I don't know why we should be.

You coould be 100% right. This photo was posted publically online and in my personal perception is offensive to me and probably a lot more people. And for me the friends shouldnt have done that in the first place. Even though it was with good intent.

 

[Danoff]

Well perhaps you understand a little better how something that is done in good intent is still often perceived and taken in offense?

That said I agree fully with your point when you apply it to the controversy around "whitewashing" in hollywood. You could make a case that more diverse actors should be given a chance to play important characters in a movie. But hollywood is still a business and casts people on the basis of the best actor for the job and make the movie profitable. If they cast a white person to a minority role I understand the controversy. But if they wre-write the role to a white person, I dont see the problem with that.

There should be no reason that rewriting the role should be required. I'd find it an odd choice to choose a white actor to play a role that was defined as black since there are so many wonderful black actors out there. But if that's the case, so be it.

For example, I absolutely LOVED the casting of Peter Dinklage in a role (X-men) that was not originally written to be specifically for someone tall or short. Best actor for the job. That's exactly how I'd like to see race used in movies. Sometimes movie is about race, or requires a certain race to make sense, and then I think they should be free to discriminate based on race for choosing that actor.

 

[PocketZeven]

There should be no reason that rewriting the role should be required. I'd find it an odd choice to choose a white actor to play a role that was defined as black since there are so many wonderful black actors out there. But if that's the case, so be it.

For example, I absolutely LOVED the casting of Peter Dinklage in a role (X-men) that was not originally written to be specifically for someone tall or short. Best actor for the job. That's exactly how I'd like to see race used in movies. Sometimes movie is about race, or requires a certain race to make sense, and then I think they should be free to discriminate based on race for choosing that actor.

I edited my post. I was making the wrong point for myself. I was more in the line of:
Liam neesan pulling off Ra's al Gul

Or Maori actor Cliff Curtis pulling of latin (escobar in Blow) or arab characters (three Kings) or even Jesus (risen):

Or Ben Affleck playing a Latin CIA operative in Argo

I realise Cliff Curtis isnt white, but it is perhaps "brown"washing.

 

[Rallywagon]

Im just curious.... if we are supposed to concede some sort of out rage at well intentioned black face, why does this get a pass?

 

[Dennisch]

Because, as the special people among us say, only whitey can be racist.

 

[PocketZeven]

Im just curious.... if we are supposed to concede some sort of out rage at well intentioned black face, why does this get a pass?
View attachment 781631

It is racist? But in context it is commentary on blackface.



I remember the movie soul man and liked it. And didn’t concidered any of it racist at the time:

Edit: edited to specify opinion to certain scene

 

[Rallywagon]

It is racist. But in context it is commentary on blackface.



I remember the movie soul man and liked it. And didn’t concidered it racist at the time:
View attachment 781677

You gotta lay off the crack man. It's a comedy about black detectives pretending to be white chicks. If you think there is some sort of social commentary in there, you are digging to deep.
I am curious, what has changed your mind about Soul Man, you seem to have had a change if heart on it. Why?

 

[Johnnypenso]

It is racist. But in context it is commentary on blackface.



I remember the movie soul man and liked it. And didn’t concidered it racist at the time:
View attachment 781677

Context is the same as intent and intent doesn't matter remember?

 

[PocketZeven]

You gotta lay off the crack man. It's a comedy about black detectives pretending to be white chicks. If you think there is some sort of social commentary in there, you are digging to deep.
I am curious, what has changed your mind about Soul Man, you seem to have had a change if heart on it. Why?

While I do smoke pot once in a while and some unspecified drugs, but I never will and have done crack.
White chicks is a bad movie, but you gotta admit there is a social underlaying commentary. Most parodies actually do, even the bad ones.

I was 10-14 when I saw soulman for the first time. I wasnt really aware how offensive some scenes were at the time.

edit: removed accidental swearing

 

[Northstar]

but you gotta admit there is a social underlaying commentary.

That in the late 90's-early 00's people would see anything with "Wayans" on it even if it was a dumpster fire?

 

[Johnnypenso]

While I do smoke pot once in a while and some unspecified drugs, but I never will and have done crack.
White chicks is a bad movie, but you gotta admit there is a social underlaying commentary. Most parodies actually do, even the bad ones.

I was 10-14 when I saw soulman for the first time. I wasnt really aware how offensive some scenes were at the time.

edit: removed accidental swearing

Offensive to you or are you offended on someone else's behalf? Which parts of it did you later learn were offensive? Do you think Rae Dawn Chong and James Earl Jones were offended and just decided to do it for the paycheque?

 

[PocketZeven]

Offensive to you or are you offended on someone else's behalf? Which parts of it did you later learn were offensive? Do you think Rae Dawn Chong and James Earl Jones were offended and just decided to do it for the paycheque?

To me.

 

[Johnnypenso]

To me.

Which parts of it did you later learn were offensive? Do you think Rae Dawn Chong and James Earl Jones were offended and just decided to do it for the paycheque?

 

[PocketZeven]

Which parts of it did you later learn were offensive? Do you think Rae Dawn Chong and James Earl Jones were offended and just decided to do it for the paycheque?

Primarily the pimp scene.

Dunno, cant look into their minds. I just can account for my opinion.

 

[McLaren]

You coould be 100% right. This photo was posted publically online and in my personal perception is offensive to me and probably a lot more people. And for me the friends shouldnt have done that in the first place. Even though it was with good intent.

This is one of the problems when people get offended on behalf of others.

You need to understand the relationship between them that makes them comfortable enough to joke, the situation that lead to them joking, & the location in which they are making the joke. In the privacy of our own homes, I'll crack Hispanic jokes with some of my Latin friends and they're completely fine with it; at times, they joke with others I'm more Hispanic than them b/c I've been around Latin people so much growing up, whether as friends or co-workers, and I know many of the upbringings that are joked about within Hispanic culture; the chancla, the way real street tacos are made, your mother questioning about everything if you want to leave, Sprite & VapoRub, etc. I even joke my white side came out if I did something obscure. I've known these people for over a decade, so we're more than comfortable enough with each other to make jokes b/c we know we're not racist and don't actually mean the things we may say. The people in that photo are probably the same way and that's why context matters when it comes to jokes.

This is why nothing is exempt from the world of comedy, why White Chicks gets a pass just as much as Tropic Thunder and Trading Places; they're jokes. Those actors and the people in that photo are not racist, likely don't condone racism, and wouldn't be doing those things out in public towards others they don't know. Eddie Murphy was cracking all sorts of dirty, offensive jokes when Trading Places was released (his most famous stand-up Delirious and Trading Places were both in 1983), and he was fine with Dan Aykroyd being black face for a comedy bit. His character was a white guy dressing in blackface as a Rastafarian trying to steal a report with Eddie's character from another man as part of the plot to get revenge on their former employers for bankrupting them over a personal bet. It is explained in the film, just as in White Chicks and Tropic Thunder, why they portray the other race. Tropic Thunder even self acknowledges the situation and makes a great one-liner about it that fits perfectly within' the plot of the film (movie actors filming a movie in what turns out to be a war zone whilst believing they're still filming a movie). It isn't like old movies where they could've gotten a black man (or white women) to do the role b/c it would actually require the movie to be re-written, therefore, excluding a major jest of the movie. It's why White Chicks is funny to begin with.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Primarily the pimp scene.

Dunno, cant look into their minds. I just can account for my opinion.

Why is the pimp scene offensive to you?

 

[Rallywagon]

Why is the pimp scene offensive to you?

Whether recognized or not, my guess would be that some part of today's society told him to be full stop, and that the issue is black and white with no nuance since racism is so serious.
And no... I will never pass up the chance at a good pun.

 

[PocketZeven]

Why is the pimp scene offensive to you?

Why do you want to know?

Whether recognized or not, my guess would be that some part of today's society told him to be full stop, and that the issue is black and white with no nuance since racism is so serious.
And no... I will never pass up the chance at a good pun.

No I just watched it again and my felt uncomfortable watching that scene. The same when I watch white chicks. But to be clear those are my own opinion.

 

[Rallywagon]

To understand the motivation of your offense and whether it holds merit

 

[PocketZeven]

To understand the motivation of your offense and whether it holds merit

An opinion is personal and why should it hold merit to others? I have other controversials opinions about movies. Like I personally liked Biodome, which is universally panned.

This is one of the problems when people get offended on behalf of others.

You need to understand the relationship between them that makes them comfortable enough to joke, the situation that lead to them joking, & the location in which they are making the joke. In the privacy of our own homes, I'll crack Hispanic jokes with some of my Latin friends and they're completely fine with it; at times, they joke with others I'm more Hispanic than them b/c I've been around Latin people so much growing up, whether as friends or co-workers, and I know many of the upbringings that are joked about within Hispanic culture; the chancla, the way real street tacos are made, your mother questioning about everything if you want to leave, Sprite & VapoRub, etc. I even joke my white side came out if I did something obscure. I've known these people for over a decade, so we're more than comfortable enough with each other to make jokes b/c we know we're not racist and don't actually mean the things we may say. The people in that photo are probably the same way and that's why context matters when it comes to jokes.

This is why nothing is exempt from the world of comedy, why White Chicks gets a pass just as much as Tropic Thunder and Trading Places; they're jokes. Those actors and the people in that photo are not racist, likely don't condone racism, and wouldn't be doing those things out in public towards others they don't know. Eddie Murphy was cracking all sorts of dirty, offensive jokes when Trading Places was released (his most famous stand-up Delirious and Trading Places were both in 1983), and he was fine with Dan Aykroyd being black face for a comedy bit. His character was a white guy dressing in blackface as a Rastafarian trying to steal a report with Eddie's character from another man as part of the plot to get revenge on their former employers for bankrupting them over a personal bet. It is explained in the film, just as in White Chicks and Tropic Thunder, why they portray the other race. Tropic Thunder even self acknowledges the situation and makes a great one-liner about it that fits perfectly within' the plot of the film (movie actors filming a movie in what turns out to be a war zone whilst believing they're still filming a movie). It isn't like old movies where they could've gotten a black man (or white women) to do the role b/c it would actually require the movie to be re-written, therefore, excluding a major jest of the movie. It's why White Chicks is funny to begin with.

The scene in trading places doesnt offend me. But like I explained these are my personal opinions.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Why do you want to know?



No I just watched it again and my felt uncomfortable watching that scene. The same when I watch white chicks. But to be clear those are my own opinion.

What @Rallywagon said. I'm not questioning your right to have that opinion I'm asking you why you have that opinion. You said you weren't offended on behalf of others so that means you are personally offended. I'd like to know why it offends you.

 

[PocketZeven]

What @Rallywagon said. I'm not questioning your right to have that opinion I'm asking you why you have that opinion. You said you weren't offended on behalf of others so that means you are personally offended. I'd like to know why it offends you.

Why?

 

[Northstar]

Why?

If you're not willing to elaborate on why you have a certain opinion, it's probably not going to help whatever claim you are trying to make. It also seems like posting an opinion than refusing to elaborate on it sort of defeats the purpose of a discussion forum.

 

[PocketZeven]

If you're not willing to elaborate on why you have a certain opinion, it's probably not going to help whatever claim you are trying to make. It also seems like posting an opinion than refusing to elaborate on it sort of defeats the purpose of a discussion forum.

I already did explain:

No I just watched it again and my felt uncomfortable watching that scene. The same when I watch white chicks. But to be clear those are my own opinion.

I am curious why does he want to know.

 

[Northstar]

I already did explain:

Not really, you just said the scene made you uncomfortable, you didn't say why it made you feel that way.

You obviously can have whatever opinions you want, but if you can't/won't elaborate on why exactly you hold those opinions, they won't do much for your claim.

 

[PocketZeven]

Not really, you just said the scene made you uncomfortable, you didn't say why it made you feel that way.

You obviously can have whatever opinions you want, but if you can't/won't elaborate on why exactly you hold those opinions, they won't do much for your claim.

It is more of a feeling. It just feels very cringy to me (in an offensive way). It portrays a negative stereotype that I personally find unnessecary for the comedy naritive. Everybody gets offended in different ways.

That said I really would like to know why @Johnnypenso wants me to explain.

 

[Northstar]

That said I really would like to know why @Johnnypenso wants me to explain.

Well, you and a couple other people constantly nitpick every little thing he and @ryzno say, so I'm guessing he is just returning the favor.

 

[Johnnypenso]

It is more of a feeling. It just feels very cringy to me (in an offensive way). It portrays a negative stereotype that I personally find unnessecary for the comedy naritive. Everybody gets offended in different ways.

That said I really would like to know why @Johnnypenso wants me to explain.

Opinion and Current Events Discussion Forum. That's where we are. It's literally the whole purpose of this forum to ask questions and discuss.