Who else is not so concerned about damage?

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3 angles on GT + damage...

ONLINE

I damage is implemented they have to make online racing more open and free... like Live For Speed for example. Where you can quickenter the pits and join next race instead if you crash, or try to take your damaged car to the pits and fix it up. But as far as i'm concerned, then can keep damage out of Gran Turismo. I don't want my favourite car to be smashed up by some "clio driver" ;)

ENDURANCE

Just think of a 2 hour race on Nurburgring and on 1:50 you miss the steep hill at the end and spins out in the grass to hit the barrier in over 150 mph. Sorry, race again...

TIME ATTACK

When you try to beat a time you often want about 10 continous laps, even if you have a little bump here and there. The frustration would make me go mad!

Thats my thoughts... Keep damage away from Gran Turismo!
 
On suzuka last night I learned something interesting. Going up the slight left after the essess, there's a little wall that is on the left. I had somebody sort of nudge me into it last night, very gently, and my car went from 140mph to 0mph in exactly 0 feet. I didn't even spin, I just..stopped...and I had to back up, turn back onto the track, and try and catch up. So, if damage had been present, the other driver would have a patch of paint missing off their door, and I would have an absolutely totaled car without even completing half of lap 1. Yay, fun.

It's that kind of stuff that makes me not want damage.
 
And that's why the option of "no damage" would be there. When you join a room in Forza 2, you can see if damage is set on Visual Only, Limited or Simulation. If you don't want what you just described to happen to you, if you have private rooms and damage similar to Forza 2 (or other racing games), you can do one of the following things:

#1 - find another room where people won't bump you off the track
#2 - find a room where damage is turned off

The choice is yours. In LFS actually, I don't believe you can turn damage off.. most people online in Forza 2 actually race with damage off, but for the often time (for me) that I race against people I know (friend's list) or league races (1 hour race once a week), we have damage on "simulation" and everyone plays fair in terms of racing each other.

That's why having the option to have it on and off is the best way to go about it. And also the option of private rooms. Say you do have a room with damage on. Some jackass joins the room and takes people out by nudging them (how you just explained) into walls and he doesn't take much damage. When the race ends, the host can kick/ban him from the room.

Sometimes you will have bad consequences obviously, someone will ruin your race in a race with damage on. That's that. It's just like being in the first place as it right now and someone taking you out off the track into the sandtrap making you lose the race. With damage on, you'd incur damage, but so would the other person. And again, you have the option to find an online room where damage is off.
 
kekke2000
3 angles on GT + damage...

ONLINE

I damage is implemented they have to make online racing more open and free... like Live For Speed for example. Where you can quickenter the pits and join next race instead if you crash, or try to take your damaged car to the pits and fix it up. But as far as i'm concerned, then can keep damage out of Gran Turismo. I don't want my favourite car to be smashed up by some "clio driver" ;)

ENDURANCE

Just think of a 2 hour race on Nurburgring and on 1:50 you miss the steep hill at the end and spins out in the grass to hit the barrier in over 150 mph. Sorry, race again...

TIME ATTACK

When you try to beat a time you often want about 10 continous laps, even if you have a little bump here and there. The frustration would make me go mad!

Thats my thoughts... Keep damage away from Gran Turismo!
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But, that's racing.
 
There is a great model for damage implementation in F1:CE. You don't have to play with damage, either online or offline, but it's there if you want to add "realism" to your racing experience.

However, in F1:CE, as IRL open-wheel racing, any serious contact tends to be terminal, so the actual damage modelling is fairly simple to simulate. Its most obvious effect is to force you to drive with real attention to the other cars around you & to weigh carefully the risks involved in aggressive maneuvers, which makes the racing feel much more exciting & realistic. The GT series has never provided this experience & I think in GT5P offline it remains a major shortcoming.

However, I have to admit, that racing with good, experienced GTP racers, the lack of damage online has become less of an issue, since there is an understood code of conduct that, to a certain extent, governs what passing maneuvers are & aren't acceptable. Nevertheless, I still think that in the future (either GT5P update or GT5 itself) absolutely has to provide some kind of damage modelling, even if it's only along the lines of Forza 2.
 
Cashwars
i'd like to see damage then you have to use your cash to repair your car and maybe even pay towards other players damage if it was deemed your fault, that way you could end up spending more on repairs than you could win, maybe make people a lot more cautious when racing
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Hmm...this I like.:dopey:
 
I still say the best damage modelling I have seen was in TOCA 3/Race Driver3/V8 Supercars3.

Most of this thread has concentrated on damage when you hit something, but it is the general wear and tear damage aspects that I think really add to the realism and the immersion of the game. Even tyre wear causes you to drive differently than if it wasn't there (Ok not so much in 3 lap races, but you know what I mean)

There were a number of times in TOCA when the damage would mount up to my gearbox/engine from over enthusiastic downshifting and engine braking around Bathurst, particularly coming down Conrod straight. Noone to blame but myself, and lessons to be learned how to treat the car better.
 
Guy's its the standerd now. Every game must have online or its doomed. Every game must have cockpit view or its doomed. Every game must have damage or its doomed. Its not about how well its implamented its about if its there or not.

GT5's main competion's the game it will be compared to will have damage so this game also must have damage. Just like FM know's this game has a cockpit view thus they must have one as well.

Once again the must's are -
All Game's: Online
Car Game's: Cockpit View, Damage
 
kart racer
Rexc, what is your psn in TOAC3?
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Hi kart racer, Unfortunately my nephews now have my PS2 and games. (no backward compat with my PS3) :indiff:

You can currently catch me in GTP at Fuji 600pp or Suzuka 750pp though. 👍

Cheers.
 
RedOak
where the hell did that come from? Mustang refers to PC games btw... and consoles have nothing to do with the subject of this conversation...
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Ok,why you hate so much gt5 ,for me its best balanced simulation tour out there,and why you playig it when you hate it,or you sory because its best racing simulation out there. LOVE IT OR HATE IT. GRAN TURISMO5 :bowdown:
 
Rexc, spot on with TOCA, Codemasters have had the damage/wear and tear thing pretty spot on for quite a while now. I think the anti-damage camp might be missing the point, when you have damage it makes people think twice about smashing into you at 140mph and not suffering the consequences. Sure, it doesn't remove it all together as there will always be that element who are just out for smash-fest, but I've generally found that it leads to cleaner racing, which considering the state of play with online at the moment (Suzuka F430/GTR especially) it can't be anything but good for the game
 
MustangSVT
And that's why the option of "no damage" would be there. When you join a room in Forza 2, you can see if damage is set on Visual Only, Limited or Simulation.
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I've long been an advocate of optional damage. I think the sharp division on this issue only strengthen that argument.
Neither condition should have to be imposed on players.
 
tiequinn
A damaged left fender and bumper should cause the car to pull to its left due to aerodymanics and wouldn't draft as well. It'll also probably mess up your turning radius and timing. The damaged left fender rub the tire causing one premature tire failure. There's so many combinations that could happen with one damage. Imagine 2 or 3 or 4 or 20 (for the punters out there).
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Thats where damage modeling engine would come in. With the PS2 and the PS1 a dev would have to code for every possible scenario, which made it very difficult, time consuming, and not very accurate.

These days instead of having to code for all possible combinations of damage, a dev can write a damage modeling engine, and the PS3 can calculate it all on-the-fly. This makes for MUCH more realistic damage modeling, and it makes it easier for the devs, in the sense that instead of coding for every combination, they just have to write a very good engine.

Vaxen
When I got my first job in the games industry, my task was to program the AI for enemy planes in the PS1 game "Top Gun: Fire at Will". It took me a month to get planes to avoid running into the ground, and another month to get them to get fairly good at maneuvering behind the player to line up for a shot. Once we were happy with it, we brought in the first set of playtesters for a focus group.

The feedback was pretty unanimous: "This game is boring. Where are the other planes?"

Of course, the other planes were all behind them, lining up for shots on the player. However, they weren't visible on screen, so the player's experience (especially for novices) was a poor one.

As a result, we revamped the AI such that, at the beginning levels, fully 80% of the time the enemy planes were doing their best to get in front of the player so they could be shot down (we called this "become target mode"), while only 20% of the time were they actually trying to shoot down the player ("acquire target mode"). They would switch modes frequently, so there was plenty of action even if the player sat there flying straight and level.

The great game designer Sid Meier put it another way "The user is your buddy: be good to him." He said this when explaining why computer opponents would never be the first to use nuclear weapons in his game Civilization, even when threatened with extinction. He described it as the equivalent of the computer tipping over the chessboard when faced with a losing situation.

The point is this: the main goal of the game is to entertain the player, not to be the best and most accurate simulation possible. Some players find accurate simulation to be fun, and so striving to create a foundation as realistic as possible can be a goal in and of itself, provided you don't sacrifice the goal of entertainment for the average player.

I personally think that PD has done a remarkable job of balancing these two, giving the hardcore sim-heads a more realistic simulation, while still leaving the game accessible to the average player. I trust that the implementation of damage will follow a similar vein.
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Couldn't have put it better myself!! 👍👍👍👍

MustangSVT
Why is it so hard for some people to understand that damage can just be implemented in the way Forza has it. Mechanical and visual damage present, with the option of making it visual only or limited mechanical damage, and when you finish races, it deducts from your prize money depending how much damage you got (if mechanical damage is on). Games have been doing it like this years (or have it fully off instead of visual only on some games) and it's been working fine. Why would anyone bother putting a repair shop and other tedious tasks? That takes away fun from the game.

If you want a realistic simulator, why are you even playing Gran Turismo? You should be playing rFactor or Live For Speed. Those games are faar more realistic than Gran Turismo ever will be. A lot of you come up with these ridiculous "realism" ideas and look towards Gran Turismo perfecting things. Why not take it farther? To buy a Ferrari in the game, you have to use your own $200,000. There's a point where you have to draw the line. And like I said, if you're looking for full realism, you're playing the wrong game. You should be playing LFS or iRacing.com instead where the online racing is far closer to what real life racing is compared to Gran Turismo (who is light years behind in the terms of "racing" itself).
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100% agreed! GT is what it is...take it or leave it!

Personally I would like proper damage modeling, and I would love it if they had an option for "Standard", "Professional" and no damage.

However if it doesn't happen then im not gonna get wound up about it. I'll just take it as it is.
 
H3rmaN
Thats where damage modeling engine would come in. With the PS2 and the PS1 a dev would have to code for every possible scenario, which made it very difficult, time consuming, and not very accurate.

These days instead of having to code for all possible combinations of damage, a dev can write a damage modeling engine, and the PS3 can calculate it all on-the-fly. This makes for MUCH more realistic damage modeling, and it makes it easier for the devs, in the sense that instead of coding for every combination, they just have to write a very good engine.



Couldn't have put it better myself!! 👍👍👍👍



100% agreed! GT is what it is...take it or leave it!

Personally I would like proper damage modeling, and I would love it if they had an option for "Standard", "Professional" and no damage.

However if it doesn't happen then im not gonna get wound up about it. I'll just take it as it is.
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:cheers:👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 gt5:bowdown:
 
VIPERGTSR01
But I bet you would get players who would join races just to damage everyone they can. :indiff:
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Agreed. Just look at GRID's online mode.

I'm interested to see how Polyphony will handle F1 damage. In an F1 race, if a tire makes hard enough contact with another car or a wall, it's race over. I doubt that it will be that realistic in-game, though.
 
I could not care less about damage in gt games, all I wanted was a game that simulated realistically how a car handles and reacts to inputs made by me. I was happy with how gt games delivered this, although not one in the series is perfect. Then I played online with gt5p and see the need for some way to discourage the constant ramming that goes on. The current penalty system is a joke and needs to be gotten rid of, its one of the reasons I gave up playing the game.
 
For damage to work properly in online races you need these things:

1) Private rooms, so that you don't have to deal with punters, wreckers & just plain bad drivers.

2) Longer races, so that racers are not obligated to drive unrealistically aggressively to get to the front in three laps.

The norm at the minute is for everyone to drive like a maniac to try to get to the front as quickly as possible. The result is a lot of out-of-control wrecks, which is not a big deal because the wrecker just thinks: "oh well, I'll win the next one". Long races (10-25 laps) in a private room environment, would force all the drivers to drive more conservatively in order to make sure they stay in the race & focus on gradually moving up the field = much more realistic & interesting.

The model for this already exists in F1:CE - it works great (at least offline it does).
 
Biggles well said... i like the idea of damage on the cars.but only if the races are more than 3or5 laps..that way you can take your time working up through the pack...also tyre failures that call for an unexpected pitstop would be interesting..
 
I personally want to see damage, but I firmly believe it will be optional. Because PD is probably going to make damage fairly realistic, and for a new beginner it could ruin their experience while they are trying to learn to become a better driver, and when they make a mistake instead of having to restart their race they can keep going and continue to learn without getting very frustrated. That's my 2 cents.

Luke
 

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