who likes the MX-5 anyway???

[Famine]

Now, with the logic you posted there (not arguing it at all just curious of your viewpoint) a Mustang, Camaro and Challenger are NOT sports cars because they are HEAVY. Really they are not when you get down to it, they are "Pony Cars" but they do fall into the "Sports Car" category at least here in the US. At least as a different class of Sports Car. Whats your view on those even though they are FR cars?

Too many seats, too heavy, not coupes. Not sportscars.

Also, a Corvette IS hands down one of the greatest American made "Sports Cars" and it too is really big and heavy. (BTW I am not a Chevy fanatic at all just pointing out the truths in US autos). I see the Corvette as a Sports Car and NOT a Supercar (at least most editions of it)... Supercars are high dollar, low production cars (this is where the standard Corvette fails) that put out dream numbers in tests on the track. Where would this car get dispositioned in your categorization?

The Corvette isn't big. Even the biggest 'Vette - the C5 - is shorter in length than a Ford Probe, and only 3 inches wider than it. It's also not really all that heavy - Zora's original was 2800lb (nearer the "economy" cars of the day than the regular ones) and even the C6 is only up at 3200lb, which you can out-heavy in a Volkswagen Golf...

The Corvette is, however, a DHC/FHC with two adult seats and very little attempt at practicality. It's certainly pushing the boundaries of size and weight though and, like the RX-7, I'd be more minded to put it as a performance-oriented touring car (especially if you then ruin it with an auto gearbox), but the configuration is right for a sportscar.

Using the logic you have a Mitsu Eclipse is a sports car (it is) but a Corvette is not.

Depends on the generation of Eclipse. 1G and 2G have a B-pillar, making them hatchbacks (coupe-style hatchbacks, rather than hatchbacked coupes) and probably what North America would term a "sports compact" as a result. Taken on their own, the 3G and 4G would be sportscars.

I honestly believe that the original brief was too narrow for real enthusiast drivers, that being the whole "Jinba Ittai", thing. The overwhelming focus on control and involvement, while admirable, meant that the rest of the package was a little underdone.

I can't possibly disagree more.

 

[peter_vod69]

I can't possibly disagree more.

Well, I'd suggest then that you aren't being objective. Why is it that the MX5 (in all it's iterations) has such a limp engine? Why is it that the first gen rolls it's front end so much? Why is it that the brakes turn to wood after two hard stops? I'm sorry, it's a great way to drive something other than a hatchback for hatchback money, but beyond that I find it just a bit insipid.

Chris Harris agrees with me, and he's much more qualified than either of us.

 

[Famine]

Well, I'd suggest then that you aren't being objective.

I'd suggest it's extremely unhelpful to start bandying things like that about.

Why is it that the MX5 (in all it's iterations) has such a limp engine?

Say whut?

It has a not-very-powerful engine - 90/110hp 1.6, 125hp 1.8, 135hp 1.8, 145hp VVT 1.8 - because it doesn't need any more. It's not "limp". Power is irrelevant to sportscars.

Why is it that the first gen rolls it's front end so much?

Err... it shouldn't, unless it's broken.

Why is it that the brakes turn to wood after two hard stops?

Because roadcar. If you're getting brake fade on a public road, because driving like an arse. I managed to get brake fade in a Mk3 Fiesta one, because driving like an arse.

I'm sorry, it's a great way to drive something other than a hatchback for hatchback money, but beyond that I find it just a bit insipid.

It's not meant to be fast or ultra grippy. It's meant to be a sportscar. It is one.

Chris Harris agrees with me, and he's much more qualified than either of us.

Jeremy Clarkson is also "much more qualified than either of us" when it comes to driving lots of different cars (hell, he's even done a 24hr race). He described the MX-5 as the perfect car in 2009 - and then "lacking soul" in the Israel TG special in 2011. I wonder which is right...

Neither are in any way qualified to tell me what I find fun. Nor you. This is why I said I disagree with you, not that you are wrong (or not being objective).

I'll take the opinion of motoring journalists who need to sell copy to stay in a job and whose experience of basic, fun motoring is dulled by decades of halo cars and measure worth in under 6 seconds as just that - opinion. I've got three years' experience of daily ownership of NA and NB MX-5s - neither Clarkson nor Harris have - alongside trackwork and, though I don't own one right now, I'll be buying another when I can. Not one of the halo cars I've also driven comes close to the joy of MX-5.

 

[peter_vod69]

I'd suggest it's extremely unhelpful to start bandying things like that about.

It was just a thought, not a jibe.

Say whut?

It has a not-very-powerful engine - 90/110hp 1.6, 125hp 1.8, 135hp 1.8, 145hp VVT 1.8 - because it doesn't need any more. It's not "limp". Power is irrelevant to sportscars.

Semantics. Power puts a big grin on your face.

Err... it shouldn't, unless it's broken.

OK, not compared to a taxi, but still more than it should, and still enough to induce lift-off oversteer in tricky conditions.

It's not meant to be fast or ultra grippy. It's meant to be a sportscar. It is one.

I put it to you that the only reason it isn't more "grippy" is because it would be exposed as being boring (note - talking about stock MX5's). Also, aren't slow sportscars kind of like boring sex? I don't know that it's a sports car just because Mazda say so.

Jeremy Clarkson is also "much more qualified than either of us" when it comes to driving lots of different cars (hell, he's even done a 24hr race). He described the MX-5 as the perfect car in 2009 - and then "lacking soul" in the Israel TG special in 2011. I wonder which is right...

I can see why he'd say both. A Subaru Liberty is, objectively, a very good car. It is also soulless and boring and I'd rather have almost any other car in its market segment.

Neither are in any way qualified to tell me what I find fun. Nor you. This is why I said I disagree with you, not that you are wrong (or not being objective).

I'll take the opinion of motoring journalists who need to sell copy to stay in a job and whose experience of basic, fun motoring is dulled by decades of halo cars and measure worth in under 6 seconds as just that - opinion. I've got three years' experience of daily ownership of NA and NB MX-5s - neither Clarkson nor Harris have - alongside trackwork and, though I don't own one right now, I'll be buying another when I can. Not one of the halo cars I've also driven comes close to the joy of MX-5.

Sorry, but after a couple of weeks driving the NA MX5 to work and back I find myself constantly wringing it's neck and in the end, although it is feelsome and so on, I find it more than a bit frustrating, and one-dimensional to drive.

PS I'VE GOT SEVEN YEARS!



It's been a pleasure disagreeing with you.

 

[Famine]

Semantics. Power puts a big grin on your face.

Shouldn't do. Power is just the potential to go from not very fast to quite fast indeed - dulled by weight - in a short time. In a road car that's awe-inspiringly pointless, because you're only allowed to go to moderately fast. Being able to go from not very fast to moderately fast in 6 seconds instead of 7 is too dull to even contemplate.

Being able to stay moderately fast, despite the absence of a straight line... that's a big grin.

OK, not compared to a taxi, but still more than it should, and still enough to induce lift-off oversteer in tricky conditions.

In tricky conditions, everything exhibits lift-off oversteer. Even if it has computers to prevent it. That's driver error, not car error.

I put it to you that the only reason it isn't more "grippy" is because it would be exposed as being boring (note - talking about stock MX5's). Also, aren't slow sportscars kind of like boring sex? I don't know that it's a sports car just because Mazda say so.

The reason it's not more grippy is because it's irrelevant. What it does better than just about anything else on the road is tell you how much grip there isn't. It does it through the palms of your hand, the soles of your feet and the cheeks of your arse. It's absolutely not boring.

Jinba ittai is an excellent description of it. Have you ever ridden a horse? I have - I was 🤬 at it, even though the horse went pretty much where I told it to and I didn't fall off or crash into anything (though it did wade into a river for a drink). Most people would call that a success - just as most people would think that getting in a car and driving it so it goes where you tell it to and not crashing makes them good at driving. Now have a look at how a truly good horserider does it - they don't tell the horse where to go, the horse knows (and horses, like most cars, are retards). The horse doesn't tell the rider where it's going next, the rider knows. Neither horse nor rider use the large, obvious movements you see beginners and amateurs using, it's all subtlety and nuance - as if the horse and rider are the same thing (though every so often they get it wrong and wind up in a hedge). Horse and rider as one... It's like that with a '5 (not an NC though. It's a hateful, backwards Focus) - in just about every other car I've driven, everything you tell the car results in a reaction from the car and everything the car tells you results in a reaction from you - working against, not with. With the MX-5, it's almost as if it's an extension of you - you don't tell it to do things any more than you tell your fingers to do things because, though anatomically speaking you do, your fingers are still you. That doesn't mean you're better at driving than someone else simply because you find it enjoyable - it's just an analogy, but descriptive of where the design philosophy came from. Jinba ittai doesn't mean "awesome to drive", it means that it doesn't even feel like driving. It's terribly satisfying.


What Mazda say it is and what it actually is are unrelated - for instance, in Japan it was sold as the Roadster and it sure as hell isn't a roadster. It's a sportscar because it is a sportscar.

I can see why he'd say both. A Subaru Liberty is, objectively, a very good car. It is also soulless and boring and I'd rather have almost any other car in its market segment.

The word "perfect" implies no flaws. To then state a flaw is contradictory. That's motoring journos for you - Clarkson especially, but not limited to him.

Sorry, but after a couple of weeks driving the NA MX5 to work and back I find myself constantly wringing it's neck and in the end, although it is feelsome and so on, I find it more than a bit frustrating, and one-dimensional to drive.

Stop wringing its neck then? Driving it like a car - like a tool for a job - results in you driving a late 80s, 90-120hp, 4 pot Japanese car. There's not much joy to be had there and it's not surprising that anyone would find it frustrating and one-dimensional.

 

[peter_vod69]

Shouldn't do. Power is just the potential to go from not very fast to quite fast indeed - dulled by weight - in a short time. In a road car that's awe-inspiringly pointless, because you're only allowed to go to moderately fast. Being able to go from not very fast to moderately fast in 6 seconds instead of 7 is too dull to even contemplate.

Being able to stay moderately fast, despite the absence of a straight line... that's a big grin.

What one is allowed to do, and what one can get away with, away from houses, children, park benches, and the police, are often two different things... It's on those roads where most driving enthusiasts have their fun (if they aren't stupid) and it's on those roads, in the give-and-take of accelerating hard out of corners, where I find an MX5 most lacking. It just isn't exciting. And let's not bring cornering speed into it because they aren't exactly formula cars there either...

In tricky conditions, everything exhibits lift-off oversteer. Even if it has computers to prevent it. That's driver error, not car error.

OK I should clarify. It's suspension setup, lack of grip and soft suspension setup make it more prone to lift-off oversteer than perhaps it should be.

The reason it's not more grippy is because it's irrelevant. What it does better than just about anything else on the road is tell you how much grip there isn't. It does it through the palms of your hand, the soles of your feet and the cheeks of your arse. It's absolutely not boring.

So like I said before, it is feelsome. It still isn't very fast, or exciting.

Jinba ittai is an excellent description of it. Have you ever ridden a horse? I have - I was 🤬 at it, even though the horse went pretty much where I told it to and I didn't fall off or crash into anything (though it did wade into a river for a drink). Most people would call that a success - just as most people would think that getting in a car and driving it so it goes where you tell it to and not crashing makes them good at driving. Now have a look at how a truly good horserider does it - they don't tell the horse where to go, the horse knows (and horses, like most cars, are retards). The horse doesn't tell the rider where it's going next, the rider knows. Neither horse nor rider use the large, obvious movements you see beginners and amateurs using, it's all subtlety and nuance - as if the horse and rider are the same thing. Horse and rider as one... It's like that with a '5 (not an NC though. It's a hateful, backwards Focus) - in just about every other car I've driven, everything you tell the car results in a reaction from the car and everything the car tells you results in a reaction from you - working against, not with. With the MX-5, it's almost as if it's an extension of you - you don't tell it to do things any more than you tell your fingers to do things because, though anatomically speaking you do, your fingers are still you. That doesn't mean you're better at driving than someone else simply because you find it enjoyable - it's just an analogy, but descriptive of where the design philosophy came from. Jinba ittai doesn't mean "awesome to drive", it means that it doesn't even feel like driving. It's terribly satisfying.

Please don't bring horses into it, I grew up on a farm, and despite this I was incredibly rubbish at riding horses. BUT it wasn't all my fault, and I'm confident that it was because the horse was unpredictable and rubbish. And a horse. In fact, I was grateful that I survived, and was pretty sure I'd done nothing to convince the horse that a lightning fast canter was a good idea. So from where I sit, that comparison makes it sound as if MX5's are great because you get out at the end of each journey glad you overcame their inherent rubbishness. But I digress.

What Mazda say it is and what it actually is are unrelated - for instance, in Japan it was sold as the Roadster and it sure as hell isn't a roadster. It's a sportscar because it is a sportscar.

They should've just called it a convertible. Or if they were being wordy, a "Lotus Elan built properly".

Stop wringing its neck then? Driving it like a car - like a tool for a job - results in you driving a late 80s, 90-120hp, 4 pot Japanese car. There's not much joy to be had there and it's not surprising that anyone would find it frustrating and one-dimensional.

I'm sorry, but if you aren't supposed to wring a sportscar's neck every so often then what the hell is the point? It may as well be a diesel work ute. But you are right, most of the time, it just feels like a late 80's 110-ish horsepower 4 cylinder car. Granted, on a sunny day, when it is being driven for driving's sake, then it does manage to rise, ever so slightly above this humble nature, but not enough for me to really love it.

 

[Famine]

What one is allowed to do, and what one can get away with, away from houses, children, park benches, and the police, are often two different things... It's on those roads where most driving enthusiasts have their fun (if they aren't stupid) and it's on those roads, in the give-and-take of accelerating hard out of corners, where I find an MX5 most lacking. It just isn't exciting.

If you're varying speed by more than 20mph on that sort of road, one of three things is true - you're going too slow into or out of the corners, you're going too fast on the straight bits or it's not that sort of road...

And let's not bring cornering speed into it because they aren't exactly formula cars there either...

OK I should clarify. It's suspension setup, lack of grip and soft suspension setup make it more prone to lift-off oversteer than perhaps it should be.

To be honest, it still sounds like a thoroughly broken one from these two statements. I've been in a number of them - including a nicely sorted Max5 car (essentially standard, just lighter) - and not a one of those things was true in any of them. The Max5 was wearing donated, part worn tyres too. I say "tyres"... I mean Daiyung Hedgemasters.

So like I said before, it is feelsome. It still isn't very fast, or exciting.

The fast bit isn't what makes the fun bit. The feel bit is.

Please don't bring horses into it, I grew up on a farm, and despite this I was incredibly rubbish at riding horses. BUT it wasn't all my fault, and I'm confident that it was because the horse was unpredictable and rubbish. And a horse. In fact, I was grateful that I survived, and was pretty sure I'd done nothing to convince the horse that a lightning fast canter was a good idea. So from where I sit, that comparison makes it sound as if MX5's are great because you get out at the end of each journey glad you overcame their inherent rubbishness. But I digress.

Well... probably sort of.

To borrow a point from James May (motoring journo... I know), you can do more with a car with very early limits and a very wide margin of limits than you can in a car with very high limits and a very narrow margin of limits. You would have to be going ludicrously fast to run out of the limits of, say, a Ferrari 458 - but there's absolutely no margin and when you run out of the limits you are dead. The MX-5 has much lower limits and you can run out of them very easily, but there's a colossal area between "I've hit 10/10ths" and "I'm dead" that you can play with all day long.

Not on public roads though, obviously. *whistles*

They should've just called it a convertible. Or if they were being wordy, a "Lotus Elan built properly".

That's marketing for you. They just plucked an old term they thought meant "sportscar".

I'm sorry, but if you aren't supposed to wring a sportscar's neck every so often then what the hell is the point?

There's a difference between driving a car really very fast indeed and wringing its neck. You can't pick up an MX-5 and throw it at a wall, expecting it to stick - or bounce off and nonchalantly wander off like a cat. It won't do it. It'll crash, probably. It's part of jinba ittai again - when it's cantering, you're cantering (MX-5s don't gallop), rather than you smashing its haunches with a crop to get it to go as fast as you want - or holding on for dear life when it's decided to canter (there's an Audi joke in there somewhere). It's not a power play between you and the car, with you forcing it by wringing its neck - you are the car. Trite, I know.

GT cars and computer-controlled witch cars like the GT-R you can pick up and spank (though there's a lot to be said for driving the GT-R like you'd drive an MX-5 - at least according to a very startled instructor at Silverstone). You can't spank an MX-5, unless you like being spanked back. I'm not really into that.


This thread really is more fun that I'd expect in the GT5 section

 

[Kitten]

Miata is amazing even stock its really fun to drive around the nurburgring. i handles like no other sport car. it just zooms right through it. I Wished the Alfa Romero SPider from 90`s That was my favorite car to as my dad has one lol. But Spider & Miata were really nice Thumbs up i think i own 15 in this game

 

[Danny]

Its a case of Mind over Miata.

That's all.

 

[ghsnu]

I like it, but not to the extent of putting 50 versions and 3 events of it.

Now, if it was Ferrari, I'd understand (and love it since I <3 Ferrari) - but a little Japanese roadster? Too much!

 

[BMWM52012]

I like it, but not to the extent of putting 50 versions and 3 events of it.

Now, if it was Ferrari, I'd understand (and love it since I <3 Ferrari) - but a little Japanese roadster? Too much!

Edit your post or famine will destroy you in an argument about why the versions are necessary. I hope you read some of the before thread.

 

[Dotini]

I started racing sports cars at the SCCA level in 1968, and IKF karts since 1988. So fast driving on the street is something that I long ago brought under control and "got out of my system". No accidents, no tickets and low insurance rates is a good thing.

Even so, I have enjoyed owning and driving a range of sports cars and other high performance cars and motorcycles, starting with the humble Austin-Healey Sprite as my first car.

In my opinion the MX-5 is by far the most perfect entry level sports car, ever. IMO, it's worst "flaw" is that if you're over 5'10", you're going to have a problem seeing the stoplights when first in line waiting for the lights to change. I drove an '89 MX-5 daily for almost 6 years.

The '86 Toyota MR2 I also enjoyed as a commuter and sports car, as I did the '81 Toyota Supra. Although with the Supra we are getting to a step above entry-level, and beginning to blur the line between a sports car and what we used to call a Grand Touring car. Probably the Mercedes-Benz 300SL is the perfect example of the classic GT car.

In the sports car culture of the 60's the SAAB 93/96 FF's were well accepted on the race track and particularly in rallying.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[DaxCobra]

My dad has owned both a NA MX-5 and a NB MX-5 (Which he owns still to this day).

He has also had Porsches, (Boxster S) Lotus's, (Excel) and a Cobra Replica (still owns it), but nothing can beat the fun of the MX5.

The amount of fun to be had around roundabouts is just brilliant. (All within the speed limit.... )

Revvy little engine in a car that handles supremely.

So yeah, you could say I like the MX-5, anyway.

 

[We Are Alfisti]

The Miata is great, it's fun to drive, but there's just too many versions of them.

 

[TomBrady]

Good for YOU. YOU however, aren't Polyphony's whole market.

Not the whole of the market but definitely the majority of the market play GT5 for dream cars, supercars, racecars, etc. You are greatly misinformed if you think otherwise.

If you look at what's missing from this game as far as supercars and racecars, you can't blame him for wanting to rant. The majority of the market is not taken care of completely. There is a lot of stuff for that crowd, but it's not like the game only have 100 cars, it has 1000. When they look at the total amount, and then look how it's divided up, you can't blame him for asking a question like this. He's 100% right even if you disagree with him about this specific car

 

[ryanerb]

Too many seats, too heavy, not coupes. Not sportscars.

I disagree.... Here a "Pony Car" is a "Sports Car" just that of a different class. I guess we can agree to disagree on this but I appreciate your point of view on it

The Corvette isn't big. Even the biggest 'Vette - the C5 - is shorter in length than a Ford Probe, and only 3 inches wider than it. It's also not really all that heavy - Zora's original was 2800lb (nearer the "economy" cars of the day than the regular ones) and even the C6 is only up at 3200lb, which you can out-heavy in a Volkswagen Golf...

The Corvette is, however, a DHC/FHC with two adult seats and very little attempt at practicality. It's certainly pushing the boundaries of size and weight though and, like the RX-7, I'd be more minded to put it as a performance-oriented touring car (especially if you then ruin it with an auto gearbox), but the configuration is right for a sportscar.

Ok, you see my point with that 👍 Couldnt agree more!

Depends on the generation of Eclipse. 1G and 2G have a B-pillar, making them hatchbacks (coupe-style hatchbacks, rather than hatchbacked coupes) and probably what North America would term a "sports compact" as a result. Taken on their own, the 3G and 4G would be sportscars.

Again I agree. Actually I was off hand thinking 3G and 4G as those are the big sellers in the US. But yes they are.

Again, here in the US there are only a few classifications of cars:

Disposable Car (cheap hold no value - Drive it til they die)
Sedans/SUVs/Trucks/Sport Coupes (Average useable car)
Sports Cars (Pony Cars, Lightweights etc... the less practical car but fun and turns heads)
Super Cars (these USUALLY are not on the dealership lots and if they are they are showroom cars)

Your previously stated M3 (that you dread with good reason in the so called "Sports Car" realm I dont see as a sports car. Is a sports coupe on steroids. Sports Coupes are cars that are sold as Sedans in the US however are in Coupe form (like the 300 series BMWs). So take a BMW 330i and pack it with 2 doors and a more powerful motor... still the same car as a sedan but in coupe form.... thats an M3 to me.

The Z3 and Z4.... Sports Car....

 

[peter_vod69]

The Z3... Sports Car....

Nope, e36 with crappy semi-trailing arm rear suspension and a convertible bodyshell.

 

[BMWM52012]

Not the whole of the market but definitely the majority of the market play GT5 for dream cars, supercars, racecars, etc. You are greatly misinformed if you think otherwise.

If you look at what's missing from this game as far as supercars and racecars, you can't blame him for wanting to rant. The majority of the market is not taken care of completely. There is a lot of stuff for that crowd, but it's not like the game only have 100 cars, it has 1000. When they look at the total amount, and then look how it's divided up, you can't blame him for asking a question like this. He's 100% right even if you disagree with him about this specific car

I was like you 3 days ago. Then someone explained to me that LMP1 cars didn't even used to be in the GT series. A veteran GT player (forgot who it was) said that the games were more about street cars and ones like the MX-5. Plus with the lower tier cars in the game its more of a possibility that cars that the player drives in reality, might be in the game. And let's face it, who wouldn't want to take their personal car around the ring?

 

[BMWM52012]

Is there a way to take the convertible top off of the premium one?

 

[Downhill Dino]

Nope. Nor on any convertible.

 

[BMWM52012]

Crud the one I bought look way better that way. And yeah now I agree its fun to drive.

 

[37kazzmark]

Have any of you ever driven a MX5? Driving heaven...

 

[peter_vod69]

Have any of you ever driven a MX5? Driving heaven...

No, clearly no one posting in this thread has ever even sat in an MX5, let alone driven one.

 

[ryanerb]

Have any of you ever driven a MX5? Driving heaven...

I have driven one. Great little car! A little to weak to my taste but the car drives GREAT!

I had a friend that owned one and drove his a few times. I also test drove one I was considering buying. Not my taste in cars though overall but I can see why they are loved.

*Both were stock with no mods