Who Owns Cummins? It's a Shocker.

[GTP_Gearhead]

For Diesel enthusiasts like myself. I understand in the automotive industry there are buyouts and buyins on a regular basis. Sometimes it's hard to keep up with who owns what nowadays.

I recently was taking a vacation at an RV park, when an older fella walked up and made some small talk about my truck. He said "Nice truck, too bad Ford owns it." I have always been a mopar fan, never really cared for Ford. So, I decided to do some digging as I couldn't come to grips that Ford owns Cummins. The company that put out what could be called the worst diesel engine of all time, the 6.0 Powerstroke, couldn't possibly have connection to my beloved Dodge. Anyone with additional info please post up!


http://forums.dieselpowermag.com/70/8575807/cummins/who-owns-cummins-its-a-shocker/index.html

 

[astrosdude91]

Ford does not own Cummins, neither does Fiat/Chrysler/Dodge. Cummins Turbo Technologies is an independent company. The person you talked to was misinformed and didn't know what he was talking about. Ford does use a Cummins diesel motor in it's F-650 commercial truck. Perhaps that is where his confusion came about.

 

[mopar-440]

Ford does not own Cummins, neither does Fiat/Chrysler/Dodge. Cummins Turbo Technologies is an independent company. The person you talked to was misinformed and didn't know what he was talking about. Ford does use a Cummins diesel motor in it's F-650 commercial truck. Perhaps that is where his confusion came about.

Yes that is correct, What most ford guys say is "ford owns cummins" but they dont they bought about 30% of their shares and that's what confuses them. Dodge is in contract with Cummins and Ford is in contract with international, nor ford or dodge owns cummins

 

[red70mach1]

Ford is in contract with international, nor ford or dodge owns cummins

It maybe off-topic but the International/Navistar contract with Ford died when reliability and warranty issues with the 6.0 Powerstroke. Ford started building their own diesel V8 a 6.7 liter also branded Powerstroke with the current generation F-Series Super Duty.

 

[sobehall]

Read from the bottom up, Ford does not own or own any part of Cummins. This is from today.




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In Brazil we supply a lot to Ford....light trucks

From: "Hall, Jeremy"
To: "mark.a.smith@cummins.com" <mark.a.smith@cummins.com> Date: 03/07/2014 02:21 PM Subject: RE: Cummins




Absolutely. I read that as well. Only older ones correct? Jeremy Hall Monitoring Administrator Information Technology Engineering Corporation – ITEC Office: 719-637-6540 Cell: 719-244-1849 From:mark.a.smith@cummins.com [mailto:mark.a.smith@cummins.com]
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 12:16 PM
To: Hall, Jeremy
Subject: RE: Cummins
If it helps...some Ford vehicles do have Cummins engines in them ...

From: "Hall, Jeremy"
To: "mark.a.smith@cummins.com" <mark.a.smith@cummins.com>
Date: 03/07/2014 02:13 PM
Subject: RE: Cummins





Mark –
Thanks. You probably get it a lot because of the Ford vs Ram guys, the Ford guys try and hold that false information over the Ram guys heads like the Ram has Ford parts in it. I own neither at the time but have friends who really believe that Ford owns Cummins or at least some part of it.
Jeremy Hall
From:mark.a.smith@cummins.com [mailto:mark.a.smith@cummins.com]
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:44 AM
To: Hall, Jeremy
Subject: Re: Cummins
Jeremy,

You are correct. I get lots of questions on this topic.....I have no idea why.

The shareholders of Cummins are financial companies such as mutual funds, pension funds etc and individuals.....as you rightly point out Ford did own some shares but that was a long time ago.

Regards

Mark

From: "Hall, Jeremy"
To: "mark.a.smith@cummins.com" <mark.a.smith@cummins.com>
Date: 03/07/2014 01:24 PM
Subject: Cummins






Mark –
I see you are listed as the Investor Relations Executive Director. I’m trying to put to rest a rumor that Ford owns, or has any ownership in Cummins. I try and inform these “Ford guys” that at one point Ford did own a portion but Cummins bought the shares back. I just can’t find any other way to give them proof without getting it from the source directly. Any help would be appreciated.
Jeremy Hall

 

[Slash]

Why did you bump this lol

 

[Parker]

There are a lot of Ford guys that still idiotically spew that Ford owns Cummins, I suppose out of jealousy because Cummins makes the superior engine. Whenever someone tells me that I just smile and tell them Ford actually owns Cummings, not Cummins.

 

[sobehall]

Someone mentioned it today at work, on top of I was reaaallllly bored. Found this thread and brought some real proof to the table instead of heresy. Haha.

 

[Slash]

There are a lot of Ford guys that still idiotically spew that Ford owns Cummins, I suppose out of jealousy because Cummins makes the superior engine. Whenever someone tells me that I just smile and tell them Ford actually owns Cummings, not Cummins.

Engine superiority is debatable.

 

[Parker]

Engine superiority is debatable.

Of course, but the vast majority of the diesel community agrees Cummins makes the best engine available in a light duty truck. There is a reason you see so many people swapping Cummins engines in Ford trucks and there is a reason Cummins engines dominate diesel motorsports.

Do you have any experience with diesel engines?

 

[Dennisch]

Engine superiority is debatable.

When it comes to US diesels, not really. Cummins is the big Kahuna.

 

[Slash]

Of course, but the vast majority of the diesel community agrees Cummins makes the best engine available in a light duty truck. There is a reason you see so many people swapping Cummins engines in Ford trucks and there is a reason Cummins engines dominate diesel motorsports.

Do you have any experience with diesel engines?

I agree Cummins makes one hell of an engine (5.9L anyone??) but when it comes to reliability I would argue the 6.9L IDI has that all day.

I personally love Cummins but lately they've been tainted with idiotic Dodge lovers.

 

[Dennisch]

idiotic Dodge lovers.

Something like a MoparSlash?

 

[Parker]

I agree Cummins makes one hell of an engine (5.9L anyone??) but when it comes to reliability I would argue the 6.9L IDI has that all day.

I personally love Cummins but lately they've been tainted with idiotic Dodge lovers.

And the rest of the diesel community would argue that the 12 Valve Cummins has that all day long. There are all sorts of documented issues with the IDI Ford engines that can be a pain to fix, and they're gutless pigs too.

Do you have any experience with diesel engines or are you basing your opinions on other things?

 

[Slash]

Something like a MoparSlash?

And the rest of the diesel community would argue that the 12 Valve Cummins has that all day long. There are all sorts of documented issues with the IDI Ford engines that can be a pain to fix, and they're gutless pigs too.

Except the IDI's aren't Ford's, they are Internationals.

I don't know about all of the diesel community arguing against that though. There is a strong following for both sides 👍

I also agree about them being gutless for the most part (hell a 460 walks all over them ). The 7.3L turbo wasn't too bad for the time however.

At least in my experience the 6.9L has been a motor I've never seen killed.

 

[Parker]

Except the IDI's aren't Ford's, they are Internationals.

I don't know about all of the diesel community arguing against that though. There is a strong following for both sides 👍

I also agree about them being gutless for the most part (hell a 460 walks all over them ). The 7.3L turbo wasn't too bad for the time however.

At least in my experience the 6.9L has been a motor I've never seen killed.

I realize that, but they're in Ford trucks so they'll commonly be referred to as a Ford engine.

Obviously the whole diesel community won't agree on the 12 valve Cummins being number one, but the majority of people actually involved in the diesel world will.

What is your experience with diesel engines?

 

[Dennisch]

The 7.3L turbo wasn't too bad for the time however.

That is debatable.

 

[Slash]

I realize that, but they're in Ford trucks so they'll commonly be referred to as a Ford engine.

That's true. I've seen them referred as such many times.

Obviously the whole diesel community won't agree on the 12 valve Cummins being number one, but the majority of people actually involved in the diesel world will.

No arguing against that, even I know it's a badass engine 👍

What is your experience with diesel engines?

Couple of my friends have some older (and newer) diesel trucks and beat the snot out of them, had some come in the shop a few times. Farm equipment etc. Enough that I know my way around one for the most part (still learning though). I've wrenched on them a few times, but by no means do I know everything about them.

That is debatable.

I was mainly referring to power output.

 

[sobehall]

So Ford claimed Cummins but now doesn't want to claim International. What does it mean?!?!?

 

[Slash]

So Ford claimed Cummins but now doesn't want to claim International. What does it mean?!?!?

1. Ford never once claimed they owned Cummins. Ever. Hell, not many people even knew that had stock with them back in the day. The people who did find out took it way more seriously than it was, and that's where this idea in this thread comes in.

2. Ford and International had a well known partnership in the 1980s and 1990s before later switching to the Navistar engines and then to their own in-house developed engines (recent).

 

[Dennisch]

I was mainly referring to power output.

I didn't expect you to say anything else.

But serious. Those powerstrokes weren't Fords finest. I worked on a fleet of late 90's models and the amount of head gaskets, turbo's and waterpumps I've replaced... I can still follow all the steps when I close my eyes.

 

[Parker]

So Ford claimed Cummins but now doesn't want to claim International. What does it mean?!?!?

It means International gave Ford the 6.0, commonly referred to as the 6.oh no.

The 6.0 was a pretty damn bad engine and the cab has to be removed to do the majority of work on the engine (if you have a 6.0 you'll need to replace the headgaskets, you'll also want to install head studs, and yeah, the cab has to be removed for that.) But after the disaster of the 6.0, International brought out the 6.4 while Ford was working on their own engine (the 6.7) and is was a pretty damn good engine. When Ford had the 6.7 ready they went their separate ways with International (after suing them over the 6.0) and gave Ford fans a worse engine that the 6.4 that International offered.

 

[Slash]

It means International gave Ford the 6.0, commonly referred to as the 6.oh no.

The 6.0 was a pretty damn bad engine and the cab has to be removed to do the majority of work on the engine (if you have a 6.0 you'll need to replace the headgaskets, you'll also want to install head studs, and yeah, the cab has to be removed for that.) But after the disaster of the 6.0, International brought out the 6.4 while Ford was working on their own engine (the 6.7) and is was a pretty damn good engine. When Ford had the 6.7 ready they went their separate ways with International (after suing them over the 6.0) and gave Ford fans a worse engine that the 6.4 that International offered.

I thought the 6.0 go-boom was a Navistar engine? I could have sworn it was a Navistar engine. I'm almost positive their contract with International ended around 2000-ish.

I didn't expect you to say anything else.

But serious. Those powerstrokes weren't Fords finest. I worked on a fleet of late 90's models and the amount of head gaskets, turbo's and waterpumps I've replaced... I can still follow all the steps when I close my eyes.

I guess it depends on who you talk to. Most of the guys that I know who had them said they were great engines, bulletproof even.

 

[Parker]

I thought the 6.0 go-boom was a Navistar engine? I could have sworn it was a Navistar engine. I'm almost positive their contract with International ended around 2000-ish.




I guess it depends on who you talk to. Most of the guys that I know who had them said they were great engines, bulletproof even.

I believe Navistar bought International, I think it used to be International Harvester company.

The 7.3 Powerstroke was a decent engine but certainly not even close to bulletproof. They had a lot of HPOP problems but they were better than the IDI engines they replaced.

 

[Slash]

I believe Navistar bought International, I think it used to be International Harvester company.

The 7.3 Powerstroke was a decent engine but certainly not even close to bulletproof. They had a lot of HPOP problems but they were better than the IDI engines they replaced.

Ah ok, wasn't 100% sure on that.

I was talking about the turbo 7.3L IDI, not the one after that. The one that was out around 94-ish.

The later one was alright. Not my favorite though. I prefer the IDI's for their simplicity to work on as well however.

 

[Parker]

Ah ok, wasn't 100% sure on that.

I was talking about the turbo 7.3L IDI, not the one after that. The one that was out around 94-ish.

The later one was alright. Not my favorite though. I prefer the IDI's for their simplicity to work on as well however.

Oh, Dennisch was talking about the Powerstroke so I assumed you were too.

The IDI engines are mechanical (like the Cummins was until the later half of '98) so they are easier to work on, but they're still too gutless for me. With the 1st Gen Cummins you can nearly double the horsepower output with 15 minutes and a screwdriver, the IDI engines take a whole lot more work to get any power from them.

 

[Slash]

Oh, Dennisch was talking about the Powerstroke so I assumed you were too.

The IDI engines are mechanical (like the Cummins was until the later half of '98) so they are easier to work on, but they're still too gutless for me. With the 1st Gen Cummins you can nearly double the horsepower output with 15 minutes and a screwdriver, the IDI engines take a whole lot more work to get any power from them.

That's true, it's easy to extract power from a Cummins engine (especially your type). But hey everyone's entitled to opinions right?

 

[Parker]

That's true, it's easy to extract power from a Cummins engine (especially your type). But hey everyone's entitled to opinions right?

Of course, but it seems some people base their opinions off the brand of the truck the engine is in rather than actual experience with the engine itself.

When I was in the market for a truck I researched for about two years (I bought my truck when I was 15, started looking when I was about 13) all the different brands because I honestly love all trucks, but during my research there was one engine that really stood out and it was the 12 valve Cummins. I could't care less if it was in a Ford, Dodge, Chevy, Nissan or Toyota, I feel the best diesel engine you can buy is a 12 valve. Especially if you have a cold winter, Cummins engines start so much better than the 'Stroke or Duramax because they use grid heaters instead of glow plugs like Ford and GM.

 

[Slash]

Of course, but it seems some people base their opinions off the brand of the truck the engine is in rather than actual experience with the engine itself.

Well you know I'd rather have a big block anyways

 

[SaraG]

There are a lot of Ford guys that still idiotically spew that Ford owns Cummins, I suppose out of jealousy because Cummins makes the superior engine. Whenever someone tells me that I just smile and tell them Ford actually owns Cummings, not Cummins.

There are many more powerful Diesel engines out there cummins is just the only one every regular joe knows about because it is available in a passenger grocery getter...sorry if I sound a little cocky but there are engines like Paccar, Detroits, CAT, yes and more powerful cummins you will never see in your plastic little dodge toys that's not even to mention what's really out there Scania and Volvo make extremely power engines Turbo Diesel V8s with over 700 Horse!!! MAN makes one of the worlds most powerful engines as well I know there is even more manufactures out there that make the Fiat pickup truck sound like a underpowered pickup don't get me wrong I don't hate the cummins engine I can't stand the people who think dodge is the greatest thing ever because of it