Why are Fords in the European Championship?

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Also Cosworth was vital to the rally and touring car development. Then reliant ( yes the horrid 3 wheelers ) made the fibreglass body for the RS200.
 
jmsbrydon
The Focus was still a car Designed and built in Europe as was the ST170 which is slightly different in the USA to fit with the market and regulations. The ST170 had a harder sportier suspension and a different body kit.
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Regardless of the minor differences between the two models (and I'm pretty doubtful that there were actually any suspension differences between the two), the car was still an international effort with a majority of development nonetheless being done in America by SVT like it was with the Mondeo ST200.
So as far as the original point on how the ST170 was mainly a European car goes, it isn't really accurate.

That being said, on the other end of the scale:
Koios
As far as the GT40, that car was built to beat Ferrari at Le Mans. That thing shows Ford American Pride from every angle. It's as European as George Washington.
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The original GT40 models (including the Mk III road car from GT2/GT3 and the Mk I Gulf-liveried race car from GT2/GT3/GT4) were mostly designed by Lola in the U.K., with the Mk II being an international effort splitting the difference between the largely British Mk I and the almost entirely American Mk IV.
 
Koios
EDIT: @jmsbrydon I did forget about the Rallies and the standard Focus'. As far as the GT40, that car was built to beat Ferrari at Le Mans. That thing shows Ford American Pride from every angle. It's as European as George Washington.
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It depends which MK you are referring to, the original GT40 was built by Lola under the oversight of Ford Europe, and other than it being a Ford it was a British car. The later MK's we're joint efforts up until the MKIV which,as Toronado posted, was pretty much a US only effort.
 
I'm starting to believe that the GT40 was built by Lola in Slough. :rolleyes: (Which I already knew.) Ford wanted to work with Lola over Lotus and Cooper, because Lola was already familiar with the Ford V8. Ford essentially took over Lola for two years to develop the GT40. Much like George Washington, it's a British born warrior built to battle a over-whelming European foe.
 
Erm there's a Ford Falcon race car in the game listed as Ford (Aus). Not that that's any help regarding US/European cars but just thought I'd mention it.

Seems a shame too that the Nomad can't be entered in the JGTC championship.
 
Dave A
Of the Fords in GT5, the Escort Rally car, all the Focus', the RS200 road and rally car, the GT40's and the Ford GT are European.

As for the game, the games full of odd little inconsistencies like this, the AI can use the because they are European cars but when you try to enter the race the game reads the car as American because the manufacturer is American. Then the reverse of this is the Toyota Altezza GT1 which is a Korean car from a Japanses manufacturer and you can't enter it into the Japanese races because it's Korean. As great as GT5 is, it's very inconsistent and that's as much of a reason as you'll get as to why the AI can use those cars and you can't.
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This sort of thing happened in GT4, too. You couldn't enter some cars like the ZZII or the VW W12 Nardo in the Supercar Festival but the AI used them all the time.
 
Niko-H
This sort of thing happened in GT4, too. You couldn't enter some cars like the ZZII or the VW W12 Nardo in the Supercar Festival but the AI used them all the time.
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*Cough* CADILLAC CIEN!!! *Cough*
 
Niko-H
This sort of thing happened in GT4, too. You couldn't enter some cars like the ZZII or the VW W12 Nardo in the Supercar Festival but the AI used them all the time.
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I'm thinking back to GT2 and that annoying GT40 that went well over the power limit of one of those events.
 
Please use the multi-quote and edit features to avoid double/triple posts.
 
inaddition to this why are do the Mini's have a german flag thingy then?
becasue its a British brand, made in Oxford England, but owned by BMW?!
and if you apply that sort of thinking do the Lamborghini's also have a german flag thingy?!
 
I don't think some Fords should be listed as european no matter what! Some Ford Continental mk IV drives with a BMW M21 engine, that doesn't make BMW american niether...
 
Smart_Roadster
I'm thinking back to GT2 and that annoying GT40 that went well over the power limit of one of those events.
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HAHA yes I remember that one too. And I think that I can remember that the GT40 acully was "unbeateble", you had to try another line up if it was one of the opponents...
 
Why are Alfa Romeos and Lexus in the German Touring car championship?
 
N99GT
inaddition to this why are do the Mini's have a german flag thingy then?
becasue its a British brand, made in Oxford England, but owned by BMW?!
and if you apply that sort of thinking do the Lamborghini's also have a german flag thingy?!
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Other than the old Mini (which is an error in the game) the modern ones are all very much BMW. The brand is owned by BMW, and the car is manufactured in a BMW plant (though the building is in the UK), and it was designed by BMW. It's a not very British car at this point.

Camry and Accords, etc are built in the US but I'd hardly call them American cars in the traditional sense.

xXKingJoshXx
Why are Alfa Romeos and Lexus in the German Touring car championship?
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Because German Touring cars don't have to be German. The lexus was a concept that was built off a DTM chassis if I recall the description correctly.
 
freedomweasel
Other than the old Mini (which is an error in the game) the modern ones are all very much BMW. The brand is owned by BMW, and the car is manufactured in a BMW plant (though the building is in the UK), and it was designed by BMW. It's a not very British car at this point.

Camry and Accords, etc are built in the US but I'd hardly call them American cars in the traditional sense.

Because German Touring cars don't have to be German. The lexus was a concept that was built off a DTM chassis if I recall the description correctly.
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Thanks!
 
The Focus ST (as the RS) have been build or are being build in Saarlouis Germany.


The Focus for America is a cheap-ass mexican version of the German one.
 
xXKingJoshXx
Why are Alfa Romeos and Lexus in the German Touring car championship?
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Because the Alfa 155 participated in the DTM.



the Lexus a bit weird tho'. Possibly a relic of a former European V8 championship which was allowed in DTM but never participated.. At least tehre were several weird cars in that European championship. Very unpopular..
 
freedomweasel
Other than the old Mini (which is an error in the game) the modern ones are all very much BMW. The brand is owned by BMW, and the car is manufactured in a BMW plant (though the building is in the UK), and it was designed by BMW. It's a not very British car at this point.
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The New Mini was designed by Frank Stephenson, who is most definetly not German and development was carried out jointly by both BMW and Rover.


The plants the cars (apart from the Countryman) are built in may now be owned by BMW, but both are most certainly histroically linked to the original Mini. The Swindon body plant (which is 10 minutes from my house) has produced Rover body panels for over 50 years, and the production plant in Oxford (which is 40 minutes from my house) made the vast majority of the original Mini's and still prodcues every Mini variant bar the Countryman.

Given all that I'd say the new Mini is German only by the fact that BMW own the brand, the UK and particulalry the part I live in still very much considers it ours.


Scaff
 
Scaff
The New Mini was designed by Frank Stephenson, who is most definetly not German and development was carried out jointly by both BMW and Rover.


The plants the cars (apart from the Countryman) are built in may now be owned by BMW, but both are most certainly histroically linked to the original Mini. The Swindon body plant (which is 10 minutes from my house) has produced Rover body panels for over 50 years, and the production plant in Oxford (which is 40 minutes from my house) made the vast majority of the original Mini's and still prodcues every Mini variant bar the Countryman.

Given all that I'd say the new Mini is German only by the fact that BMW own the brand, the UK and particulalry the part I live in still very much considers it ours.


Scaff
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Fair point. I guess it depends on your perspective. The way I see it, the car was designed by someone employed by BMW, and built in a building owned by BMW.
If I had some sort of attachment to the brand, like living near the factories as you mentioned, I'd probably think otherwise though. :cheers:
 
xXKingJoshXx
Why are Alfa Romeos and Lexus in the German Touring car championship?
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Because the DTM isn't only limited to German cars. A far better question would be why are two FIA GT cars (BMW M3 GTR, Audi R8 LMS) able to be entered in the DTM races.
 
Over the years, European and US Ford were quite different, only a few models being sold on both sided of the Pond which doesn't mean they were 100% the same cars.

Ford of Europe uses design centers Germany and UK (and Belgium). Original Focus was European effort and was translated to US with some changes to make it cheap enough for the respective market (one of them is the Mexican production). Focus MK2 was introduced in Europe end of 2004, but was too expensive for US where a heavily modified MK1 version was sold until now.
The markets were too specific and one car rarely could do well on both markets.
European cars were smaller, more efficient, more nimble, with better handling, more technology and higher price.
US cars were larger, with bigger engines, more powerful, comfort biased lower technology, interiors, etc., but vastly cheaper.
This is valid for the cars in general and a lot of brands selling on both markets.

This is however history. Starting with New Focus (MK3) and Fiesta, Ford cars will be truly global and virtually the same across the world (e.g. 80% parts commonality). Most of the (smaller) cars will continue to be developed in Cologne.

I hope this sheds some light on the EU/US Ford debate.
 

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