Why are realistic hybrids hated so badly?

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When you have people asking what wider chassis they can fit to the RUF and wanting to fit x2010 suspension to their super GT cars then I think its fair to say these people are doing this to cheat for a big advantage.

And you would have nothing to back that up.

Like I've said, the lack of rules and the disruption is annoying, but don't get carried away.

Look how PD dealt with the real hybrid cars like the ae86 and shigeno.

The 86 is 80s capable being from the 80s. The shigeno is a different engine in same body, but no it doesn't have 600bhp. Or a v8.
Doesn't mean they can't have either or both, or that it's right to deny them both.

And its classed as being 2000 not from the 80s events so it can't rock up there and blast everyone in their dated 80s tech.
Then PD lets the 2J in the historic car events on Cote D'Azur. And that random race car in the Dream Car cup or whatever.

Its no longer a ae86 its its own unique car with its own unique id so everyone else knows what it is. It can only enter competition for which it is eligible not what the standard ae86 is RL eligible for.
And this is only really because PD added this one car. If it were produced from an engine swap in game, it would probably count as the original. After in GT a fire breathing Group C car is good enough to enter the Sunday Cup.

Online, hosts have the ability to enforce rules. We would be better off not having engine swapped cars separated from everything else by default. That's just a pointless limitation.

These hacks puport to be one thing but are another entirely.

They purport to be nothing. They simply are, and different people use them for different reasons.
 
IMO People hate what they can't understand. When you get how everything works and you know how to limit things there are no problems... yet... lol
 
Then PD lets the 2J in the historic car events on Cote D'Azur. And that random race car in the Dream Car cup or whatever.

Not sure if you know this but the historic racing car event allows cars up to 1979.
 
Not sure if you know this but the historic racing car event allows cars up to 1979.

Yes, and the 2J clobbers anything on either side of 1970. So implying that everything PD does is balanced isn't right. There is hardly a balanced race in GT5.
 
I just use an imagination of Multiclass, for this event I said there is an A class (2J and Toyota 7) the rest are in B class.
Other events like GT ALL-STARS, I say there is a P class (Group C and LMP), GT1 (90's GT1) and GT2 (other GT cars).
 
If that was PD's reasoning, then they made a poor decision. No amount of horsepower is unfair. Some cars are just better than others - and they should be if that is the case in real life. You take care of this by only racing cars with similar performance, as is done in reality.

As for the original question posed, some people will just hate the mods automatically for one reason or another. Others will assume anyone who mods is dishonest. Still others simply are unsure of how capable the game is of handling these cars fairly and take a low risk approach by avoiding the modded cars. I'd be in the last category, though I don't have a problem with the cars.

You do have a point. However PD has their reasons for not really going into a detail fair play line up they did their best. It's hard keeping it fair when people are only wanting to use the fastest cars and only care about winning. I've done every race I came across online with the only car I like. A Mazda 520Hp. I'm sure if they made the Supra 1000HP its all people would use. Look at the Veyron, B., Enzo Ferrari, Redbull X2010, etc. GT5 was better how it was before people exploited it..
 
You do have a point. However PD has their reasons for not really going into a detail fair play line up they did their best. It's hard keeping it fair when people are only wanting to use the fastest cars and only care about winning. I've done every race I came across online with the only car I like. A Mazda 520Hp. I'm sure if they made the Supra 1000HP its all people would use. Look at the Veyron, B., Enzo Ferrari, Redbull X2010, etc. GT5 was better how it was before people exploited it..

Honestly.. I think any kind of altering of a game, Even Glitch abuse is bad. Gran Turismo 5 is officially An "Alter Haven" It's become unfair because you can sleeper any car with this hybrid. It doesn't matter if its "Realistic" If you change your car to perform better in anyway its an unfair advantage. Think of it as, a Shooter. You know a weapon has a certain amount of ammunition, Stopping power etc. Yet That certain weapon thats being used by the opposition is out performing what its normally suppose to be doing. That's an unfair advantage. Think a little bit more before you start using unnecessary language and trying to defend the use of cheat-altering. (No this isn't directed at everyone.)
 
People change car settings to the best of it's abilities on certain tracks. Every track requires a different setup for it to be perfect.
 
I'm sure if they made the Supra 1000HP its all people would use.

That's been said so many times, but then why is 550 or less PP racing popular? Why is the X1 the least common car online?

Nowhere near everyone would be running around in super high powered cars. Forza allows fairly low powered cars to reach very high hp, but still people like to putt around in the lower classes. More tuning options is no danger to low powered or stock racing. The danger those things face is poor online set up where it's impossible to find specific rooms.

Think of it as, a Shooter. You know a weapon has a certain amount of ammunition, Stopping power etc. Yet That certain weapon thats being used by the opposition is out performing what its normally suppose to be doing. That's an unfair advantage.

There's a problem with that analogy, guns don't have PP. Technically, as long as PP is obeyed, everything is fair. Obviously this isn't completely true, some modded cars break PP, but those more realistic ones are less likely to.

Going back to the shooting game, if someone took a gun and made it better in one area, but not in others, which made it different but fair with the other guns, you would have something more like the lower powered/less altered mod cars.

But of course that does not solve the problem of being able to find and isolate them.
 
And you would have nothing to back that up.

Like I've said, the lack of rules and the disruption is annoying, but don't get carried away.


Doesn't mean they can't have either or both, or that it's right to deny them both.


Then PD lets the 2J in the historic car events on Cote D'Azur. And that random race car in the Dream Car cup or whatever.


And this is only really because PD added this one car. If it were produced from an engine swap in game, it would probably count as the original. After in GT a fire breathing Group C car is good enough to enter the Sunday Cup.

Online, hosts have the ability to enforce rules. We would be better off not having engine swapped cars separated from everything else by default. That's just a pointless limitation.

They purport to be nothing. They simply are, and different people use them for different reasons.

Have nothing to back what up? Let's consider what lengths a cheat will go to to get an advantage. It stands to reason that those who can cheat will cheat. It is in their nature. You might not or some hackers might not but can you guarantee the behaviour of every hacker? No so sit down off that pedestal you put these hackers on.

Right to deny? You act as though it is a god given right that because you cab hack the game that the game should be hacked to your own pleasing making whatever stupid combinations you want.

If PD wanted you to do this you'd be able to do it without hacking. That why its called hacking.

Extactly if PD wanted the shigeno to annihilate all the races the ae86 it eligible for they surely woukdbt have made sure that it could not enter any pre 2000 races would they?

What you and the other hackers are doing is giving 2000+ technology to 70s or 80s cars but the game still sees them as 70s or 80s but they should no longer be classed as such . Hence why this hacking is detrimental to anyone who wants a fair race.
 
I really don't think people should be talking in such absolutes as "if PD wanted people to do this" because frankly nobody knows anything along those lines, and the absence of the ability in GT5 doesn't mean PD think we shouldn't do it at all, in fact they're more likely planning some way of doing this already for a future game.


Anyway, the fact that this editing is so easy to do for GT5 (copy-pasting in a plain text document is not "hacking", although it is a hack-job, so...) is why it's so rife at the moment, and I'm frankly amazed that the saves work that way at all, i.e. that the game reads what's in them without even checking if it should be possible. That said, I am pleased, to be fair, that it is possible, because a lot of good has come of it in regards to the customisation it's unlocked - PD must look upon that aspect as a good thing, i.e. what the game can already do if only the features had a front end we could work with in the game! Plus, there's clearly a demand for it.

Cheaters will always cheat, this much should be obvious. Removing the low hanging fruit will make everyone's day a bit better, but there will still be cheaters. You cannot, 100%, stop cheaters - except, you know, by physically preventing them from playing the game, which, in practical terms, means not making the game in the first place. It is sad that the online rooms are being swamped with idiots, or children who just don't know any better, but this, in a way, is also a good thing - hopefully PD are watching and realise that the thing to do is to add more controls to the room options and search filtering so that the lunatics have a place to go and everyone else can avoid them if they want to.


The ideal case going forwards is to have the save reading patched (since I doubt they'll allow it to continue, because "piracy") so that silly stuff is ignored by the game, and cars are only allowed to have parts that belong to them and not parts that should be locked out of the game entirely - things like power "multipliers" really oughtn't be taken from the save, unless it changes with tuning, which is just bizarre. They could even encrypt it, but that could also be cracked eventually. Then PD can add in all the functionality that the editing has allowed as part of a controlled structure within the game.

All of the visual modifications that have been going on need to be added in as a feature (maybe not for GT5, but there is hope at least given how simple it should be), because they just need to be in the game already. Engine swaps can probably wait until they work out proper tradeoffs and get the full range of physics repercussions sorted, and the same for other physics-based mods.
Online requires an overhaul to make it easier to use and to set proper and wide ranging restrictions and descriptions that can be searched more effectively, which was true before these hybrids took off.


TL;DR: This is an opportunity for PD to make the game better on several levels, not to start flailing a hammer around like some power-drunk embodiment of a deranged kind-of-Thor-thing, or something. Let us spec and search for rooms more specifically and open up the customisation that is clearly already possible.
 
Have nothing to back what up? Let's consider what lengths a cheat will go to to get an advantage. It stands to reason that those who can cheat will cheat. It is in their nature. You might not or some hackers might not but can you guarantee the behaviour of every hacker? No so sit down off that pedestal you put these hackers on.
None of that proves that people who do the things mentioned in your earlier post are cheating. Putting X1 suspension on everything does not imply looking to cheat. Nor does asking for what chassis will fit a car.

It's unfortunate that these things can be used for cheating though.

Right to deny? You act as though it is a god given right that because you cab hack the game that the game should be hacked to your own pleasing making whatever stupid combinations you want.
The words right and right mean two different things.

If PD wanted you to do this you'd be able to do it without hacking. That why its called hacking.
What PD's wants is of little importance, the same goes for what it's called. Modding cars by itself is not harmful.

Extactly if PD wanted the shigeno to annihilate all the races the ae86 it eligible for they surely woukdbt have made sure that it could not enter any pre 2000 races would they?
You're assuming that it's a 2000 model for balance. Do you have evidence?

What you and the other hackers are doing is giving 2000+ technology to 70s or 80s cars but the game still sees them as 70s or 80s but they should no longer be classed as such . Hence why this hacking is detrimental to anyone who wants a fair race.

This doesn't matter in the slightest. No where online does year play a role (except rare year based lobbies that hosts don't really have the tools to enforce).
 
Just had a chat with a guy in a GT5 room called 'VW Treffen No Hacks".

I asked if this was true and he said "yes". Bit confused as this was just a cruise room :ouch:

I tried to explain to him that real cars can be "hacked" too so why not let me run a sensibly modified car. He just replied along the lines of "just because".

I find this attitude strange. If we all love cars so much, why such an aversion to well made, realistic hacks?

Take this real Mk1 golf...
8230623674_66c53f6ab7_z.jpg


Its got a VR6 in it from a Mk3 Golf, Corrado or Passat in it. But you don't see it being turned away at the gates, its welcomed with open arms and marvelled at.

Accept Practical Hacks into you're life. Its fun :sly:👍
 
Because they wont let a v 6 run in the same category as a 1.6 flat 4 presumably?
 
Read the post again. It was a show / cruise / treffen.

Also, its not all about drag racing. I know that a 2.8 VR6s lap time wouldn't be far from a 2.0 16v.

Drag racing is one of the most boring things to do on GT5 IMO.
 
Just had a chat with a guy in a GT5 room called 'VW Treffen No Hacks".

I asked if this was true and he said "yes". Bit confused as this was just a cruise room :ouch:

I tried to explain to him that real cars can be "hacked" too so why not let me run a sensibly modified car. He just replied along the lines of "just because".

I find this attitude strange. If we all love cars so much, why such an aversion to well made, realistic hacks?

Take this real Mk1 golf...
8230623674_66c53f6ab7_z.jpg


Its got a VR6 in it from a Mk3 Golf, Corrado or Passat in it. But you don't see it being turned away at the gates, its welcomed with open arms and marvelled at.

Accept Practical Hacks into you're life. Its fun :sly:👍

We need some progress going IMHO. Getting a bit stuffy in hear (Forum) with all the back and forth going on. Each sides makes clear points, but non the less....They are here and PD has not done anything yet or ever might? Till then or never, lets move forward with some reasonable responsibilities from the Modding group.

Now Modded or Hybrids or Hacked cars, if the individual is willing to be fair with what ever they mod and meet PP Standards it could still be a fair chance?

Last night I tried a social experiement between Modded and PD cars. I only used a PD supplied car and some were in modded cars. The experience was different but not sure if Johnnypenso held back or not / or maybe the PP range suited both type of cars? He is a way better driver then me but lap times were with in a few tenths and some in the hundreds from what I could tell. Have not seen the replays yet, but with level headed folks...this may still work out ok?

Social Experiment: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=279333
 
If the mechanism for modding existed inside the game, then I would be fine with it. However, the results are not achievable without outside intervention.

Case in point that I've seen plenty of times lately are the FR-S triplets competing in 550 rooms. 200mph+ FR-S is impressive, so how can I go and tweak my FR-S to achieve the same results? The answer is that I can't. I can tune to my hearts content and practice until my fingers fall off, I will never be able to do what that FR-S does...unless I cheat the system and hack the car info.

I won't argue game balance because so many imbalances exist, however the natural balance of GT5 is the ability to at least attempt to replicate performance. If the next iteration of GT allows for engine swaps, then I'll be totally on board but as it stands, it's cheating.
 
And that random race car in the Dream Car cup or whatever.
That would be the XJR-9 LM Race Car '88. That is a pretty random car to throw into a championship involving fake race cars.
 
We need some progress going IMHO. Getting a bit stuffy in hear (Forum) with all the back and forth going on. Each sides makes clear points, but non the less....They are here and PD has not done anything yet or ever might? Till then or never, lets move forward with some reasonable responsibilities from the Modding group.

Now Modded or Hybrids or Hacked cars, if the individual is willing to be fair with what ever they mod and meet PP Standards it could still be a fair chance?

Last night I tried a social experiement between Modded and PD cars. I only used a PD supplied car and some were in modded cars. The experience was different but not sure if Johnnypenso held back or not / or maybe the PP range suited both type of cars? He is a way better driver then me but lap times were with in a few tenths and some in the hundreds from what I could tell. Have not seen the replays yet, but with level headed folks...this may still work out ok?

Social Experiment: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=279333

We've got a social experiment now:sly: I didn't hold back at all, I'd never do that. The lag prevented me from attacking when I was behind you at Autumn Ring or we'd have had a photo finish I think:tup:👍 Was good clean racing from my viewpoint all night.

The cars I ran last night were basically just skin/chassis/engine swaps with standard weights and power. The Camaro I ran at GVE was stock, just with a different motor for better sound, same power as I'd normally have and same lap times. CTR2 was just the entire car, same power and all, dropped onto an RGT chassis. RGT is so much better to drive and a good 500PP car, and good at 550 as well, but it can be beat, although not easily...lol. 480hp, 1300+kgs and no downforce, typical 550pp stats. The Corvette was closer to 1400kgs, completely stock except for a different motor, again, just because it sounds better. It handles well enough on it's own for me.

Anyone wanting to put a spanking on hybrids, or bring your realistic hybrids out for a spin should keep an eye on that thread. If we can encourage people to keep them from invading open lobbies and confine them to a private lounge network or well defined open lobbies, I think we can do the community a service. 👍👍 They aren't going anywhere, might as well find ways to make it work in the community at large..they might be here until GT6.:sly:
 
Read the post again. It was a show / cruise / treffen.

Also, its not all about drag racing. I know that a 2.8 VR6s lap time wouldn't be far from a 2.0 16v.

Drag racing is one of the most boring things to do on GT5 IMO.

Probably because he really doesn't want hacked cars in his room, and even put it in the title? I don't see why you can't comprehend that.

If somebody says no hacked cars, you respect it. They don't want their room to be filled with anything that's been hacked, even if it's "realistic." And you should respect that.

He's the one following the rules, if he doesn't want hacked cars then you don't show up with hacked cars. Period. He doesn't even need a reason other than 'just because'. It's his room and if you don't like the rules then don't go there.

Even if it's a "realistic" hybrid.
 
^^ Respect was shown, thats why I had a chat with him instead of invading his track. I left afterwards.

Rules like to be bent.
 
We've got a social experiment now:sly: I didn't hold back at all, I'd never do that. The lag prevented me from attacking when I was behind you at Autumn Ring or we'd have had a photo finish I think:tup:👍 Was good clean racing from my viewpoint all night.

The cars I ran last night were basically just skin/chassis/engine swaps with standard weights and power. The Camaro I ran at GVE was stock, just with a different motor for better sound, same power as I'd normally have and same lap times. CTR2 was just the entire car, same power and all, dropped onto an RGT chassis. RGT is so much better to drive and a good 500PP car, and good at 550 as well, but it can be beat, although not easily...lol. 480hp, 1300+kgs and no downforce, typical 550pp stats. The Corvette was closer to 1400kgs, completely stock except for a different motor, again, just because it sounds better. It handles well enough on it's own for me.

Anyone wanting to put a spanking on hybrids, or bring your realistic hybrids out for a spin should keep an eye on that thread. If we can encourage people to keep them from invading open lobbies and confine them to a private lounge network or well defined open lobbies, I think we can do the community a service. 👍👍 They aren't going anywhere, might as well find ways to make it work in the community at large..they might be here until GT6.:sly:
:cheers: Well said and hopefully there will be more like you out there! Then in conclusion from last night, both Modded and PD supplied cars can race with each other, fairly, respectfully, cleanly and most importantly with FUN 👍.

lol...I was expecting a move on Turn # 1 one each lap! Had me all nervous, but lucky for me on the lag part :D.
 
:cheers: Well said and hopefully there will be more like you out there! Then in conclusion from last night, both Modded and PD supplied cars can race with each other, fairly, respectfully, cleanly and most importantly with FUN 👍.

lol...I was expecting a move on Turn # 1 one each lap! Had me all nervous, but lucky for me on the lag part :D.

I try to race by GTP rules even in open lobbies so most of my passes will either be from drafting or safely capitalizing on someone's mistakes. I'm fairly easy to run in front of because unlike some guys, I won't be sticking my nose in front of your rear bumper every corner just because I can. A lot of the guys that will be in the room initially will be from DeadNuts or ORCA and they are all pretty clean drivers although some are a little more agressive than others. More taking the rules to the limit than breaking them though. In Deadnuts everyone qualifies to a fixed time as opposed to fixed PP or HP/Weight limits, so everyone on the track is DeadNutsEven, and passing is tough whether you're Mario Andretti or his tire guy.
 
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