Why are realistic hybrids hated so badly?

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Anytime you have to go outside the game and use a program to alter your save file, you are cheating. If you can't do it in game, and you do it out of game you are cheating. I don't mind losing to a better launch, Or a better reaction time, or a better driver, or tune. Losing to a Civic in a well tuned Viper....BS.

If you want a faster car than that Mustang....Use a Viper. And keep your hacked cars out of clean rooms. Your hacked cars are actually worse than those guys that come back full bore in the drag lanes, And guys that try to push others off the line. Those guys are at least out in the open about their douchebaggery.


/rant.
 
"Why are realistic hybrids hated so badly?" Because you're not a drifter..lol..Seriously though, this hybrid movement is a godsend to the drifting community; the ultimate counterpunch to the Forza crowd..but it is fundamentally flawed in that hp, grip, and downforce can be modded and undetected, thus making the clock and finish line chasers nervous.

Realistic hybrids aren't hated, they're unverifiable, and their users (in a race or time attack situation) have every motivation to use deceit to conceal an unfair advantage.
Want to run your 1200 hp Mustang and get a thumbs up and questions about yourchassis, as opposed to getting kicked? Learn how to pitch that thing sideways...
 
I don't think they would hate a 500 hp 240SX or something in those lines, but rather a 9,000,000 hp one. Some people just hate hybrids. I think that Kaz wouldn't approve of the hybriding, but if he is taking no action then he either doesn't care or he's just concentrating on GT6. I haven't played GT5 in a while because I am sick and tired of going into lobbies that have 1400 hp Karmann Ghias (I've been in a lobby with one). It's no fun! :(
 
PD might have moved on but it only takes one manufacturer to find out and tell PD they didn't agree to their car being transplanted into another car when they licensed their vehicles.

I just find quite dumb that the makers of cars wouldn't allow that for GT.
I mean, it happens in real life, it's allowed to be done in Forza, NFS and other games. That and damage.
I wonder why GT is being so limited?
 
I saw this same idea in another thread. Simply brilliant. :rolleyes:

You saw that in another thread because that's how most online games with anticheating measures already work. So not only is it actually a "brilliant" idea, it is in fact is so brilliant that that is how it is usually handled.
 
You saw that in another thread because that's how most online games with anticheating measures already work. So not only is it actually a "brilliant" idea, it is in fact is so brilliant that that is how it is usually handled.

I'm sorry, but can you tell me what games have a disallow/allow cheating option? I just can't recall ever seeing that as an option.

By the way, I'm glad your post to me was short. I normally skip over your longer posts because of that god-awful font color.
 
Just as many other things in life they are hated out of jealousy and miss understandings.

Sure there is a very small part of it where they ruin a lobby or a tt but for the most part it's simple hatred because being sour is fun.
 
So are you seriously saying entering a code in an old Grand Theft Auto game that instantly allows you to lose the cops isn't a cheat? What else would you call it? You're (albeit enabled by the programmers) cheating the game.

Cheating the game makes no sense, unless you define cheating to mean something different from cheating, as in getting around PP or some such thing.

Again, cheat codes are an unfortunate term, because in many cases their name does not apply. Enabling invulnerability is no different than setting the AI to easy, or some other option. Actually option would be a good term for what are in many cases called cheats.
 
I'm sorry, but can you tell me what games have a disallow/allow cheating option? I just can't recall ever seeing that as an option.

Probably fairly close to every game ever made that had dedicated server support, for starters. Pretty sure I've played games that used P2P that allowed you to turn off anti-cheating measures as well. Think Interstate '82 was one of them.

By the way, I'm glad your post to me was short. I normally skip over your longer posts because of that god-awful font color.

cookie.gif
 
I'm sorry, but can you tell me what games have a disallow/allow cheating option? I just can't recall ever seeing that as an option.

By the way, I'm glad your post to me was short. I normally skip over your longer posts because of that god-awful font color.

There is no option to cheat. There are option to facilitate mods and keep them separate from the standard game.

http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=77630
 
Probably fairly close to every game ever made that had dedicated server support, for starters. Pretty sure I've played games that used P2P that allowed you to turn off anti-cheating measures as well. Think Interstate '82 was one of them.

Thanks for the cookie but your answer is meaningless. So far as I can tell, that 14 year old game you mention had no online features, though it did come with three previously unreleased Devo songs.

The question at hand is, should a host should have the option to allow hacked cars (from cheater's corrupted game saves) into their online lobbies.

Really the question will have to be answered by SCE and PD. Based on PSN’s TOS, I’m guessing the answer is a resounding no.
 
Thanks for the cookie but your answer is meaningless. So far as I can tell, that 14 year old game you mention had no online features, though it did come with three previously unreleased Devo songs

For reference I posted a 2010 game with online, that's still being played. I'd assume that would be a decent example? I could try finding a post related to the 2012 sequel that is still in Beta, using the same system.
 
Hybrids are awesome to me, however with my FF Touring Car Championship the 2 hybrids have been highly speced especially the Prius.
 
Thanks for the cookie but your answer is meaningless. So far as I can tell, that 14 year old game you mention had no online features, though it did come with three previously unreleased Devo songs.

Oh, I must have imagined playing it online when it came out, then; just like I imagined all of those online clans that it had back in the day, imagined setting up rooms where the anti-hacking measures were disabled so I could play with my brother with more powerful cars and imagined the popular mod that Battlefield 1942 had to emulate the online play of the original and the earlier Interstate '76.

:lol:



Also find it pretty hilarious that you skipped over the entire rest of my post to (incorrectly, no less) focus on the example tacked on the end just to show how long anti cheating options have been around, just so you could say I didn't answer your question meaningfully.



The question at hand is, should a host should have the option to allow hacked cars (from cheater's corrupted game saves) into their online lobbies.

No, the question at hand as you keep presenting it is should the hybrid cars be allowed online or should Sony prevent you from playing the game at all (including offline) if you have any on your save.
 
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There is a Major difference with a cheat code that is part of the games programming, vs adding in something outside of the game to cheat. To me it doesn't matter if you add one extra PP or a thousand. Cheating is still cheating.
 
Has there been a gt5 update sense all this started? I noticed the tt's yet again are with provided cars.

I ask because the days keep on ticking by lol "whenever I want to I guess"
 
Thanks for the cookie but your answer is meaningless. So far as I can tell, that 14 year old game you mention had no online features, though it did come with three previously unreleased Devo songs.

rFactor or GTR2. Though mods/leagues/cups are made by players, if those mods are modified, the players who modify them cannot race online with the others who play with the original mod. Precisely because the data don't match.
 
Just as many other things in life they are hated out of jealousy and miss understandings.

Sure there is a very small part of it where they ruin a lobby or a tt but for the most part it's simple hatred because being sour is fun.

You mean the small part where it obliterates the integrity of online racing? Surely that's not a big deal.
 
I played Unreal Tournament on the PC for years. It would have been nothing without the mods supplied by the users. I loved being tiny in low gravity and flying around the kids room or the cabin or the bathroom.

But in these rooms we all had the same abilities and we all had the same weapons.

In this situation only the cheaters have the advantage.

Exorcet, I would not mind if the hacked cars could not be used online. The guy in the link you provided lost his hacked game save and was asking for another. He couldn’t play online with his corrupted game save.

That is all I am asking SCE to do. Invalidate peoples game saves when they try to go online.

They violate the PSN’s TOS. In the end I don’t think they will be allowed online. I think they haven’t finished the patch yet.

I don’t know what they will do – but I do know what they could do. Read the PSN’s TOS.
 
Define cheat.

Well that's the point. Modded cars aren't cheating.

You can't decide what is cheating and what's not. It's all about what is in bold. Doing whatever to your car can't be a cheat if there is no one to cheat (such as in A-Spec, or [because someone will probably argue A-Spec] a free run). Driving them online isn't a cheat because online doesn't have any universal rules to break. Entering them into a no mods room is cheating (or just against the rules), obviously.

There are universal rules. They're in the terms of service for PSN and they forbid any modifications of any part of a game, including save files. To avoid having to add a "no haxs"-suffix to every online lobby that doesn't want them, the default position should be that modded cars are cheating, unless the host says otherwise. If in doubt - ask.


Regarding technical solutions from PD or Sony to deal with modded cars, they need to find a way to detect them. That may be difficult, depending on how the game is constructed, and may require some fundamental changes in its architecture. In theory you just need a tool to compare the values of the car with the possible default values and detect anomalies. In reality that may be a complicated and lengthy process. Once they do have that tool they could chose to either add a "no hybrids" option to the game, to ban hybrid cars altogether, or to give that tool to Sony to detect and ban hybrid users.

If I was PD, I would be rather annoyed if I had to spend months coming up with a fix to this - especially at a time where I would like to focus my resources on the next Gran Turismo (that may or may not come later this year) and in that position I would gladly hand the tools over to Sony to unleash the fury of the ban wave. Apart from fixing the problem of modded cars, it would also make future gamers have more respect (fear) for the rules so they wouldn't have to spend valuable time for things like this in the future. After all, if they go for the soft approach and just add an option to the game, people learn that it's okay to break the rules and what is there then to stop people from delving deeper into hacking PD's games?

Not to say that it stops there, if I was PD (again) I would also learn from this that customization is an important part of contemporary gaming and would try to add more customization options to future games.

But that's me...
 
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If I was PD, I would be rather annoyed if I had to spend months coming up with a fix to this - especially at a time where I would like to focus my resources on the next Gran Turismo (that may or may not come later this year) and in that position I would gladly hand the tools over to Sony to unleash the fury of the ban wave. Apart from fixing the problem of modded cars, it would also make future gamers have more respect (fear) for the rules so they wouldn't have to spend valuable time for things like this in the future. After all, if they go for the soft approach and just add an option to the game, people learn that it's okay to break the rules and what is there then to stop people from delving deeper into hacking PD's games?

Not to say that it stops there, if I was PD (again) I would also learn from this that customization is an important part of contemporary gaming and would try to add more customization options to future games.

But that's me...

Oh man that was just so well said ...and honestly for me you have hit the nail on the head there. You can twist it this way, that way, and the other way but ultimately that is what it comes down to: People are breaking the rules. And honestly, it amazes the way this behaviour is defended by some ...to the point of even questioning age-old dictionary definitions. Dude says the dictionary does not matter ...its up to the individual. What?!?!? Its language! Its for communication ...no-one cares how you feel. We need a common set of definitions so our system ...the very way we deal with each other can work. If we start thinking we can make up definitions dependent on how we feel at the moment ...holy cow ....I do not want to live in your world. Cheating is cheating. I knew the definition as a child and still do. What I feel is irrelevant.
 
Exorcet, I would not mind if the hacked cars could not be used online. The guy in the link you provided lost his hacked game save and was asking for another. He couldn’t play online with his corrupted game save.

No, he had modified game files directly (equal to changing data on the GT5 disk) and was unable to play online with people who did not have the same mod.

Two of the major servers for that game did the same thing intentionally, and this made it so that players who wanted to join those servers had to mod their game (as I did). You were fully capable of playing online with mods, you just needed to be compatible with the server you were trying to enter.

There are universal rules. They're in the terms of service for PSN and they forbid any modifications of any part of a game, including save files.
Yes there is a ToS, but that's not a gameplay rule.

To avoid having to add a "no haxs"-suffix to every online lobby that doesn't want them, the default position should be that modded cars are cheating, unless the host says otherwise. If in doubt - ask.
Sounds reasonable to me, though this only covers online and would only cover online in certain rooms/with certain hosts. Simply modding a car is not cheating. Using a modded car to gain an advantage over another player when that advantage is forbidden by the rules set by whatever player(s) is in charge is cheating.

If the simple act of modding were cheating, then the entire game that I posted above was basically cheating when those two major servers changed the game files. That doesn't make sense.


Regarding technical solutions from PD or Sony to deal with modded cars, they need to find a way to detect them. That may be difficult, depending on how the game is constructed, and may require some fundamental changes in its architecture. In theory you just need a tool to compare the values of the car with the possible default values and detect anomalies. In reality that may be a complicated and lengthy process. Once they do have that tool they could chose to either add a "no hybrids" option to the game, to ban hybrid cars altogether, or to give that tool to Sony to detect and ban hybrid users.
It might be difficult, but it shouldn't be. Banning users with modded cars is also a bad idea because not everyone is going to know. Someone who just got the game for Christmas or something, has never played GT before, and maybe isn't too familiar with games might end up getting the car. There is nothing unreasonable about a 800 hp car, how would they know that it's been modified?

PD needs to do something, banning probably isn't it.

If I was PD, I would be rather annoyed if I had to spend months coming up with a fix to this - especially at a time where I would like to focus my resources on the next Gran Turismo (that may or may not come later this year) and in that position I would gladly hand the tools over to Sony to unleash the fury of the ban wave. Apart from fixing the problem of modded cars, it would also make future gamers have more respect (fear) for the rules so they wouldn't have to spend valuable time for things like this in the future. After all, if they go for the soft approach and just add an option to the game, people learn that it's okay to break the rules and what is there then to stop people from delving deeper into hacking PD's games?

That's a possibility. Another one is that PD doesn't care and won't do anything. Another is that PD adds the features to the game and then adds more security as well. I don't see how adding something to the game would imply in the slightest that breaking the ToS is OK. The ToS says it's not OK. Even then, banning or whatever hard approach won't do a thing to stop people with offline PS3's or alternate PSN's.

Cheating is cheating. I knew the definition as a child and still do. What I feel is irrelevant.

Exactly as I said. Cheating is cheating. Mods by themselves aren't. Can't really argue against that.
 
The funny thing is, I bet if these hybrid haters were given, for example, a hacked GTR Black Edition, with a more aggressive/flush stance, the engine and noise from a Calsonic GTR GT500, tuned up to 1200bhp, they'd all love it and quickly change their minds.

I love the realistic hybrids. It's reignited some life in to what was a dead game.
 
The funny thing is, I bet if these hybrid haters were given, for example, a hacked GTR Black Edition, with a more aggressive/flush stance, the engine and noise from a Calsonic GTR GT500, tuned up to 1200bhp, they'd all love it and quickly change their minds.

I love the realistic hybrids. It's reignited some life in to what was a dead game.

Why are you so sure? It's not like the possibilities of hybrids are an unknown quantity: those against them know what's on offer. They just don't agree with their use online, as they offer unfair advantages over those that don't break into their save files.

By your logic, I'm sure that giving "hack haters" the ability to shoot through walls in any of the popular FPS games would solve the problem: they'd love it, right?
 
My two cents.

It's entirely dependent on the hybrid and on the situation. At the moment I'm running a Nissan March 12R with stock GT-R engine and drivetrain (I borrow-glitched it, I didn't make it and can't figure out how to :confused:). See, it tops out at around 160mph, and people online magically couldn't give two hoots about me in my positively slow hybrid.

I only enter hybrids into cop, drift and (if I know I'll get beaten) drag lobbies. I wouldn't dream of entering a 'proper' race room and pissing off someone.

EDIT:

And to everyone saying "Ban ALL teh people who use hybrids!!"

Really? Why would Sony ban a (pretty big portion) of the market, potential future customers of their products?
 
Why are you so sure? It's not like the possibilities of hybrids are an unknown quantity: those against them know what's on offer. They just don't agree with their use online, as they offer unfair advantages over those that don't break into their save files.

By your logic, I'm sure that giving "hack haters" the ability to shoot through walls in any of the popular FPS games would solve the problem: they'd love it, right?

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that using them in online competitions is wrong. I was talking about the aspects of creativity and driving them, plus the fact it adds an almost limitless amount of new cars to the game. I was always someone who criticised GT5 for not having enough 'off track' features and customisation. This hybriding quenches that thirst and adds a fun aspect to the game. It's just a shame it requires hacking in order access rather than being an integral part of the game.
 
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